Who cares about clinical correlation

[Guest guest]

"MRO evaluations, therapist comments, support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers, colleagues, etc."

This all sounds good but, in my opinion, only offers a false sense of hope to those who are falsely accused. The REALITY is that these people's opinions are rarely asked and won't override the damning evidence of a positive EtG test. Has anyone on this site been helped by any of these things???

Here's what my MRO review said: "Participant denies drinking. I have no medically acceptable explanation for the above positive test at this time." And since there has yet to be a published study on incidental alcohol exposure and EtG, she can get away with this.

As for the PEth blood test, it is dependent upon being notified of one's positive EtG within 2 weeks so they can submit the blood sample. If you're in a probation program, you'll likely be thrown in the slammer when you get that notification, and they are unlikely to grant your wishes for a blood draw. Like EtG, there's been no research on incidental alcohol and PEth. Bottom line...EtG has now been declared the "gold standard" by its promoters, so CDT, PEth, and SCRAM will make no difference.

Re: Digest Number 41

Regarding the very good questions raised G Michner> *1. The following statement is made: "About 2% of ETG positives appear to> be due to inadvertent exposure." Could you please give me the referencefor> this statement?* This an estimate only, an educated guess.Its very hard toknow for sure and one cannot get this information except from research,which will hopefully be completed in the next year or so.> **> *2. With regard to CDT, PEth, and SCRAM as additional testing methods for> evaluating a positive ETG when inadvertent exposure may be a problem:*>> *a. Is there any anecdotal evidence of any of these methods being used> successfully in clearing a person of a positive ETG test? Or is this just> theoretical in nature?* I don't know that this has been successfully usedyet. It has gone in the other direction, where EtG testing has been used toclear persons who have been accused of drinking after testing withnon-evidentiary breath testing machines. (I've been involved in a case likethat) So it seems to me it could work in the direction of dealing with aninnocent positive EtG result. There are a number of problems with thisapproach of course, especially if an individual doesn't get the results forweeks later. I wish this were an easily solved problem. Since no technologyis prefect it seems reasonable to use one to monitor another, and almost allthe time that would seem to be useful (of course that doesn't eliminateproblems all together, just makes it very unlikely). If an individual hasbeen unfairly accused, I also suggest thinking of their defense in terms ofa variety of approaches, including MRO evaluations, therapist comments,support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers,colleagues, etc. These lab tests should play a role, but since it may beweeks later that a person learns of a positive result, it is best to thinkof all the different aspects of presenting a case for continuous recovery.> *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,outside of Chicago.I wish I could offer more information of this point. Right now I can onlymake suggestions in individual cases. I would be pleased to do that. Also, Iwould refer you to Dr. Skipper for commentary on these points as well.Doug

[Guest guest]

MRO review:she can get away with this : What exactly are you getting away with? Isn't your license scheduled for a revocation hearing?? What do they think you are "getting away with" the stress and anxiety of being falsely accused? the loss of income? the public defamation??

Who cares about "clinical correlation"

"MRO evaluations, therapist comments, support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers, colleagues, etc."

This all sounds good but, in my opinion, only offers a false sense of hope to those who are falsely accused. The REALITY is that these people's opinions are rarely asked and won't override the damning evidence of a positive EtG test. Has anyone on this site been helped by any of these things???

Here's what my MRO review said: "Participant denies drinking. I have no medically acceptable explanation for the above positive test at this time." And since there has yet to be a published study on incidental alcohol exposure and EtG, she can get away with this.

As for the PEth blood test, it is dependent upon being notified of one's positive EtG within 2 weeks so they can submit the blood sample. If you're in a probation program, you'll likely be thrown in the slammer when you get that notification, and they are unlikely to grant your wishes for a blood draw. Like EtG, there's been no research on incidental alcohol and PEth. Bottom line...EtG has now been declared the "gold standard" by its promoters, so CDT, PEth, and SCRAM will make no difference.

Re: Digest Number 41

Regarding the very good questions raised G Michner> *1. The following statement is made: "About 2% of ETG positives appear to> be due to inadvertent exposure." Could you please give me the referencefor> this statement?* This an estimate only, an educated guess.Its very hard toknow for sure and one cannot get this information except from research,which will hopefully be completed in the next year or so.> **> *2. With regard to CDT, PEth, and SCRAM as additional testing methods for> evaluating a positive ETG when inadvertent exposure may be a problem:*>> *a. Is there any anecdotal evidence of any of these methods being used> successfully in clearing a person of a positive ETG test? Or is this just> theoretical in nature?* I don't know that this has been successfully usedyet. It has gone in the other direction, where EtG testing has been used toclear persons who have been accused of drinking after testing withnon-evidentiary breath testing machines. (I've been involved in a case likethat) So it seems to me it could work in the direction of dealing with aninnocent positive EtG result. There are a number of problems with thisapproach of course, especially if an individual doesn't get the results forweeks later. I wish this were an easily solved problem. Since no technologyis prefect it seems reasonable to use one to monitor another, and almost allthe time that would seem to be useful (of course that doesn't eliminateproblems all together, just makes it very unlikely). If an individual hasbeen unfairly accused, I also suggest thinking of their defense in terms ofa variety of approaches, including MRO evaluations, therapist comments,support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers,colleagues, etc. These lab tests should play a role, but since it may beweeks later that a person learns of a positive result, it is best to thinkof all the different aspects of presenting a case for continuous recovery.> *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,outside of Chicago.I wish I could offer more information of this point. Right now I can onlymake suggestions in individual cases. I would be pleased to do that. Also, Iwould refer you to Dr. Skipper for commentary on these points as well.Doug

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[Guest guest]

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I meant the MRO (who is a "she") can get away with saying there's no acceptable medical explanation for my positive test. (See where the end of the quote is?)

Re: Digest Number 41

Regarding the very good questions raised G Michner> *1. The following statement is made: "About 2% of ETG positives appear to> be due to inadvertent exposure." Could you please give me the referencefor> this statement?* This an estimate only, an educated guess.Its very hard toknow for sure and one cannot get this information except from research,which will hopefully be completed in the next year or so.> **> *2. With regard to CDT, PEth, and SCRAM as additional testing methods for> evaluating a positive ETG when inadvertent exposure may be a problem:*>> *a. Is there any anecdotal evidence of any of these methods being used> successfully in clearing a person of a positive ETG test? Or is this just> theoretical in nature?* I don't know that this has been successfully usedyet. It has gone in the other direction, where EtG testing has been used toclear persons who have been accused of drinking after testing withnon-evidentiary breath testing machines. (I've been involved in a case likethat) So it seems to me it could work in the direction of dealing with aninnocent positive EtG result. There are a number of problems with thisapproach of course, especially if an individual doesn't get the results forweeks later. I wish this were an easily solved problem. Since no technologyis prefect it seems reasonable to use one to monitor another, and almost allthe time that would seem to be useful (of course that doesn't eliminateproblems all together, just makes it very unlikely). If an individual hasbeen unfairly accused, I also suggest thinking of their defense in terms ofa variety of approaches, including MRO evaluations, therapist comments,support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers,colleagues, etc. These lab tests should play a role, but since it may beweeks later that a person learns of a positive result, it is best to thinkof all the different aspects of presenting a case for continuous recovery.> *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,outside of Chicago.I wish I could offer more information of this point. Right now I can onlymake suggestions in individual cases. I would be pleased to do that. Also, Iwould refer you to Dr. Skipper for commentary on these points as well.Doug

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[Guest guest]

Ahhh.... I see now sorry Re: Who cares about "clinical correlation"

I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I meant the MRO (who is a "she") can get away with saying there's no acceptable medical explanation for my positive test. (See where the end of the quote is?)

Re: Digest Number 41

Regarding the very good questions raised G Michner> *1. The following statement is made: "About 2% of ETG positives appear to> be due to inadvertent exposure." Could you please give me the referencefor> this statement?* This an estimate only, an educated guess.Its very hard toknow for sure and one cannot get this information except from research,which will hopefully be completed in the next year or so.> **> *2. With regard to CDT, PEth, and SCRAM as additional testing methods for> evaluating a positive ETG when inadvertent exposure may be a problem:*>> *a. Is there any anecdotal evidence of any of these methods being used> successfully in clearing a person of a positive ETG test? Or is this just> theoretical in nature?* I don't know that this has been successfully usedyet. It has gone in the other direction, where EtG testing has been used toclear persons who have been accused of drinking after testing withnon-evidentiary breath testing machines. (I've been involved in a case likethat) So it seems to me it could work in the direction of dealing with aninnocent positive EtG result. There are a number of problems with thisapproach of course, especially if an individual doesn't get the results forweeks later. I wish this were an easily solved problem. Since no technologyis prefect it seems reasonable to use one to monitor another, and almost allthe time that would seem to be useful (of course that doesn't eliminateproblems all together, just makes it very unlikely). If an individual hasbeen unfairly accused, I also suggest thinking of their defense in terms ofa variety of approaches, including MRO evaluations, therapist comments,support group comments, commentary from significant others, employers,colleagues, etc. These lab tests should play a role, but since it may beweeks later that a person learns of a positive result, it is best to thinkof all the different aspects of presenting a case for continuous recovery.> *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,outside of Chicago.I wish I could offer more information of this point. Right now I can onlymake suggestions in individual cases. I would be pleased to do that. Also, Iwould refer you to Dr. Skipper for commentary on these points as well.Doug

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

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