Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

[Guest guest]

another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2 in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote: > > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago. Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development. It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this

test. G. Michner

[Guest guest]

Robin, can you explain to me why this test will filter (so to say) exposure to alcohol? Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2

in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote:

> > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago.

Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development.

It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test.

G. Michner

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

As you advocate cdt, you claim that enviromental exposure does not pose a threat to unsuspecting clients. Sounds great, but we have all heard that before. Your approach seems to be far more humane than the court ordered "search and destroy" type treatment used by our justice system and recovery programs, but is there research that can make a believer out of me, I would really like to give it a scrutinous review- clinical settings? bias controls? bias group/groups? How can you say environment does not play a factor, then say," just my opinion"? What has caused the false-positives/negatives when you cited vulnerability's? How many children have to lose their mothers or fathers before this test is dubbed "Daubert Science" as well as this entire "continuous monitoring" is deemed responsible for relapse and suicide as well as recovery?

Fact- Alcohol is cunning,baffling and powerful in it's physical properties too! Getting honest with ones self is more important in recovery than monitoring, one may stay sober for the duration, but if they are going to drink- It Is Legal!!! Until one hits bottom, they will not change, and this monitoring is a useless waste of time, effort and resources, especially after the intervention. Point is, the third step is not "turn my wil and life over to the care of the courts/recovery program as it understands me." Opinion- Control, they take our money, test us with BS, positive means more money, continued monitoring etc..., this was the sort of thing our forefathers had endured before writing the Constitution, you know the Right to Privacy thing, after the intervention, all this is unconstitutional!Marcellus

[Guest guest]

as i understand it from my experience & reading there has to be a cumulative amount of alcohol like a drink...trivial amount of alcohol say an inhaler or mouthwash might show up in the urine for a brief time and raise etg but would not influence cdt reading because the blood would not change significantly... cdt has a window of several weeks...we had a diabetic who was admitted for evaluation for positive etg,had more sugar in his urine,sugar turned to alcohol, caused false positive etg...his cdt was normal,ergo etg false positive...crssemc@... wrote: Robin, can you explain to me why this test will filter (so to say) exposure to alcohol? Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH) another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2 in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote: > > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of

Chicago. Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development. It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test. G. Michner Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

wow marcellus i do not advocate cdt,just pointing the group in a direction to do their own research and form their own conclusions.i can simply say review the articles,you will find scholarly work there,and can find your truth there...i have had 2,they were much more accurate than etg of which i have had many... regards,robin "marcellus91872@..." <marcellus91872@...> wrote: As you advocate cdt, you claim that enviromental exposure does not pose a threat to

unsuspecting clients. Sounds great, but we have all heard that before. Your approach seems to be far more humane than the court ordered "search and destroy" type treatment used by our justice system and recovery programs, but is there research that can make a believer out of me, I would really like to give it a scrutinous review- clinical settings? bias controls? bias group/groups? How can you say environment does not play a factor, then say," just my opinion"? What has caused the false-positives/negatives when you cited vulnerability's? How many children have to lose their mothers or fathers before this test is dubbed "Daubert Science" as well as this entire "continuous monitoring" is deemed responsible for relapse and suicide as well as recovery? Fact- Alcohol is cunning,baffling and powerful in it's physical properties too! Getting honest with ones self is more important in recovery than monitoring, one may stay sober for the duration, but if they are going

to drink- It Is Legal!!! Until one hits bottom, they will not change, and this monitoring is a useless waste of time, effort and resources, especially after the intervention. Point is, the third step is not "turn my wil and life over to the care of the courts/recovery program as it understands me." Opinion- Control, they take our money, test us with BS, positive means more money, continued monitoring etc..., this was the sort of thing our forefathers had endured before writing the Constitution, you know the Right to Privacy thing, after the intervention, all this is unconstitutional!Marcellus

[Guest guest]

I am thankful that Robin threw CDT into the mix. No, it most likely will not be helpful in programs that are not willing to admit that EtG has some inherent problems. It may not be helpful to those tested by Compassvision who have been told they cannot do any outside testing. But some of us are trying to prove our innocence so we can get back into those programs, and personally, I'm trying to submit any reasonable alternative to EtG to my board for future monitoring. I'm not trying to speak for Robin, but I believe it was an honest attempt to help us, not to scam us with just another unreliable test, and I am thankful for the info.

As for the references to the "cunning, baffling, and powerful" properties of alcohol and other references to the 12-steps, I've said it before....Don't confuse RECOVERY with MONITORING....They are not the same. I'm a failure with monitoring, but am keeping my recovery in check.

..

Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

As you advocate cdt, you claim that enviromental exposure does not pose a threat to unsuspecting clients. Sounds great, but we have all heard that before. Your approach seems to be far more humane than the court ordered "search and destroy" type treatment used by our justice system and recovery programs, but is there research that can make a believer out of me, I would really like to give it a scrutinous review- clinical settings? bias controls? bias group/groups? How can you say environment does not play a factor, then say," just my opinion"? What has caused the false-positives/negatives when you cited vulnerability's? How many children have to lose their mothers or fathers before this test is dubbed "Daubert Science" as well as this entire "continuous monitoring" is deemed responsible for relapse and suicide as well as recovery?

Fact- Alcohol is cunning,baffling and powerful in it's physical properties too! Getting honest with ones self is more important in recovery than monitoring, one may stay sober for the duration, but if they are going to drink- It Is Legal!!! Until one hits bottom, they will not change, and this monitoring is a useless waste of time, effort and resources, especially after the intervention. Point is, the third step is not "turn my wil and life over to the care of the courts/recovery program as it understands me." Opinion- Control, they take our money, test us with BS, positive means more money, continued monitoring etc..., this was the sort of thing our forefathers had endured before writing the Constitution, you know the Right to Privacy thing, after the intervention, all this is unconstitutional!Marcellus

[Guest guest]

Robin---Thanks for your thoughts & info on CDT. I have found it very interesting & am going back (to when I tested neg for it last summer/fall) to revisit the subject/interpretation of it & the then + EtG's w/ my case mgr. No one seemed very impressed by it at the time. The MD who ordered it (my PCP) didn't really even know how to interpret the lengthy narrative attached to the results. I'm now ready to pursue it a bit; @ the time I was totally traumatized & baffled. Thanks for the reawakened interest. Marsha robin murray <remurraymd@...> wrote: wow marcellus i do not advocate cdt,just pointing the group in a direction to do their own research and form their own conclusions.i can simply say review the articles,you will find scholarly work there,and can find your truth there...i have had 2,they were much more accurate than etg of which i have had many... regards,robin "marcellus91872@..." <marcellus91872@...> wrote: As you advocate cdt, you claim that enviromental exposure does not pose a threat to unsuspecting clients. Sounds great, but we have all heard that before. Your approach seems to be far more humane than the court ordered "search and destroy" type treatment used by our justice system and

recovery programs, but is there research that can make a believer out of me, I would really like to give it a scrutinous review- clinical settings? bias controls? bias group/groups? How can you say environment does not play a factor, then say," just my opinion"? What has caused the false-positives/negatives when you cited vulnerability's? How many children have to lose their mothers or fathers before this test is dubbed "Daubert Science" as well as this entire "continuous monitoring" is deemed responsible for relapse and suicide as well as recovery? Fact- Alcohol is cunning,baffling and powerful in it's physical properties too! Getting honest with ones self is more important in recovery than monitoring, one may stay sober for the duration, but if they are going to drink- It Is Legal!!! Until one hits bottom, they will not change, and this monitoring is a useless waste of time, effort and resources, especially after the intervention. Point is, the third step is

not "turn my wil and life over to the care of the courts/recovery program as it understands me." Opinion- Control, they take our money, test us with BS, positive means more money, continued monitoring etc..., this was the sort of thing our forefathers had endured before writing the Constitution, you know the Right to Privacy thing, after the intervention, all this is unconstitutional!Marcellus

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

thanks guys...all of us being etg'd face the spectre of a false positive etg...if it happens to me,i will be taking an action step to supply legally admissible test to contradict that false test...it is not the be all to end all but beats being totally helpless,which accounts for a lot of the anger and frustration...cdt can be a part of the solution for at least some of us,i think... Marsha Dienelt <marshadienelt@...> wrote: Robin---Thanks for your thoughts & info on CDT. I have

found it very interesting & am going back (to when I tested neg for it last summer/fall) to revisit the subject/interpretation of it & the then + EtG's w/ my case mgr. No one seemed very impressed by it at the time. The MD who ordered it (my PCP) didn't really even know how to interpret the lengthy narrative attached to the results. I'm now ready to pursue it a bit; @ the time I was totally traumatized & baffled. Thanks for the reawakened interest. Marsha robin murray <remurraymd@...> wrote: wow marcellus i do not advocate cdt,just pointing the group in a direction to do their own research and form their own conclusions.i can simply say review the articles,you will find scholarly work there,and can find your truth there...i have

had 2,they were much more accurate than etg of which i have had many... regards,robin "marcellus91872@..." <marcellus91872@...> wrote: As you advocate cdt, you claim that enviromental exposure does not pose a threat to unsuspecting clients. Sounds great, but we have all heard that before. Your approach seems to be far more humane than the court ordered "search and destroy" type treatment used by our justice system and recovery programs, but is there research that can make a believer out of me, I would really like to give it a scrutinous review- clinical settings? bias controls? bias group/groups? How can you say environment does not play a factor, then say," just my opinion"? What has caused the false-positives/negatives when you cited vulnerability's? How many children have to

lose their mothers or fathers before this test is dubbed "Daubert Science" as well as this entire "continuous monitoring" is deemed responsible for relapse and suicide as well as recovery? Fact- Alcohol is cunning,baffling and powerful in it's physical properties too! Getting honest with ones self is more important in recovery than monitoring, one may stay sober for the duration, but if they are going to drink- It Is Legal!!! Until one hits bottom, they will not change, and this monitoring is a useless waste of time, effort and resources, especially after the intervention. Point is, the third step is not "turn my wil and life over to the care of the courts/recovery program as it understands me." Opinion- Control, they take our money, test us with BS, positive means more money, continued monitoring etc..., this was the sort of thing our forefathers had endured before writing the Constitution, you know the Right to Privacy thing, after the intervention, all this

is unconstitutional!Marcellus Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

What if you are "cumulatively" exposed daily or several times daily? Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2

in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote:

> > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago.

Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development.

It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test.

G. Michner

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

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[Guest guest]

define precisely type of etoh exposure and delivery route,i may be able to help... regards, crssemc@... wrote: What if you are "cumulatively" exposed daily or several times daily? Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH) another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2 in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote: > > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago. Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in

development. It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test. G. Michner Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search,

pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

The way I understand it, CDT will only be positive with pretty significant alcohol consumption, which is more typical of alcoholic drinking. In other words, if you had an EtG of 250, that could be the peak from exposure to vinegar or it could be the tail end of a positive test that peaked at 10,000 following a big binge. The CDT would tell you which scenario it was. Is that right, Robin? Daily exposure to an inhaler would not yield a positive CDT.

Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2

in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote:

> > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago.

Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development.

It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test.

G. Michner

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

that is my understanding lorie,trivial etoh in food or in an inhaler might raise etg because of its sensitivity but not cdt because of its specificity...regards. Lorie Garlick <lorieg@...> wrote: The way I understand it, CDT will only be positive with pretty significant alcohol consumption, which is more typical of alcoholic drinking. In other words, if you had an EtG of 250, that could be the peak from exposure to vinegar or it could be the tail end of a positive test that peaked at 10,000 following a

big binge. The CDT would tell you which scenario it was. Is that right, Robin? Daily exposure to an inhaler would not yield a positive CDT. Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH) another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2 in my last

post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesq@...> wrote: > > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago. Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development. It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test. G. Michner Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures,

email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

inhaler, gasoline,cleaning products, dermatological, really anyway possible. We really don't know all of the exposures we encounter and I really don't have a specific route or exposure I just have a hard time believing that if this is a test for alcohol, and alcohol is metabolized the same way regardless of how it entered your body that this test will prove/disprove beverage use. Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH)

another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2

in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesqgmail> wrote:

> > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago.

Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development.

It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test.

G. Michner

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

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[Guest guest]

the blood biomarker would not change at all with the type of exposure you mention, because the blood test is more specific...the etg might change slightly with the exposure because etg would be the most sensitive...bottom line a drink or two within 2 weeks or so will elevate cdt...example...i drank 2 weeks before my cdt it was still up...my etg was negative because that urine biomarker was out of my system...2 das after i drank etg was sky high...4 weeks after no drinking cdt fell to normal...stayed normal during treatment...prior to discharge i had another cdt still normal...had cdtit gone back up the treatment facility would have kept me at least another 90 days saying because of the abnormal cdt i was still drinking... they did this to several guys while i was there...that is how they did it...you are correct that there is no one specific

test to prove or disprove use,but cdt is better than any other biomarker being used currently because of specificity and that is how some treatment centers are using them...hope this helps,regards,robincrssemc@... wrote: inhaler, gasoline,cleaning products, dermatological, really anyway possible. We really don't know all of the exposures we encounter and I really don't have a specific route or exposure I just have a hard time believing that if this is a

test for alcohol, and alcohol is metabolized the same way regardless of how it entered your body that this test will prove/disprove beverage use. Re: Re: Phosphatidyl ethanol (PETH) another point of clarification..pardon my dyslexiax2,chris,correct egt to etgx2 in my last post...regards,robintoxlawdog <cecontoxesqgmail> wrote: > > *b. What U.S. lab is offering the PEth test?* USDTL in Des Plaines, IL,> outside of Chicago. Point of clarification: U.S. Drug Testing Laboratories is NOT yet offering the PETH test. It is still in development. It certainly is proving difficult to obtain good, concrete information on this test. G. Michner Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

OK I am confused is the peth test the CDT ?? And is this edt test being done at the labs in my case it would be NWT ?? Thanks

PEth = phosphatidyl ethanol

CDT = carbohydrate deficient transferrin

They are two separate tests. They are both blood tests and are both used in a similar fashion to diagnose alcohol abuse. NWT is owned by Quest, and I am certain that Quest does the CDT.