Guest guest Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 The article titled "Excretion profiles of ethyl glucuronide in human urine after internal dilution" deals with diuresis and EtG. You can read the abstract at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12166812 & query_hl=2 & itool=pubmed_docsum. It showed that while diuresis had a huge effect on EtG levels, it could not eliminate EtG from a sample (the levels remained >500ng/ml). In other words, if a test were "positive", forcing fluids would not make it "negative". It also reinforced the idea of considering the urine creatinine level when interpreting EtG levels and normalizing the levels based upon that. If you drank so much water that you were able to have a "negative" EtG, the sample would be too dilute to be considered valid. Lorie >> Is there any definitive research on whether or not an ETG test can > be "diluted"?> > Chris> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Thanks Lorie - I'm not trying to beat the test, I'm getting beaten up for " diluted " by the ex's attorney in Family Court (although the Judge is on my side) who contends, wrongly, that a " diluted " test is a positive test. Now I have some evidence to that point. Actually if you think about it, I'd have to drink several thousand liters of water to effectively dilute the sample beyond recognition! I do live in Arizona, but it's not that hot! In reality, it benefits the " non-profit " TASC organization by keeping people in testing programs. For example, I was set back 6 weeks in Family Drug Court (where they send you if the other person makes unfounded accusations, it's actually a fair program). 6 weeks x $25 per test, twice per week = $300 x 44 (the number they brag about " catching cheaters " in a month = $13,200 x 10 testing centers in Arizona = $132,000 x 12 months = $1,584,000 x 50 states = $79,200,000 in additional revenue. It would serve the public and the " user " more effectively if that money was spent subsidizing treatment or counseling. Figure $30K for a 28 day program, that would be 2,640 people who couldn't afford to pay, or didn't have health insurance who would be able to go through a 28 day program. I'm sure if I spent a little time on it, these numbers would be very interesting. > > > > Is there any definitive research on whether or not an ETG test can > > be " diluted " ? > > > > Chris > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Do they only go only on creatinine as far as dilution? Creatinine can be low for other reasons...including diet. If specific gravity is normal it leads towarded the urine NOT being intentionally dilute, however, dilute in terms of creatinine only. > > > > > > Is there any definitive research on whether or not an ETG test > can > > > be " diluted " ? > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Is your "dilute" an isolated incident or a chronic problem? By SAMHSA standards, a "dilute" is not automatically considered positive; There are "positive dilutes" and "negative dilutes", depending on whether drugs were detected in the sample. They define "dilute" as the creatinine < 20 mg/dL and the specific gravity < 1.003. Are they also considering the specific gravity? And just how low are the creatinines? I think there is info that supports creatinines as low as 2 ng/dl as compatible with human urine. Could they possibly give you the chance of clearing a dilute by immediately submitting a new sample upon notification of the "dilute"? >> Thanks Lorie - I'm not trying to beat the test, I'm getting beaten > up for "diluted" by the ex's attorney in Family Court (although the > Judge is on my side) who contends, wrongly, that a "diluted" test is > a positive test. Now I have some evidence to that point. Actually > if you think about it, I'd have to drink several thousand liters of > water to effectively dilute the sample beyond recognition! I do > live in Arizona, but it's not that hot! > > In reality, it benefits the "non-profit" TASC organization by > keeping people in testing programs. For example, I was set back 6 > weeks in Family Drug Court (where they send you if the other person > makes unfounded accusations, it's actually a fair program).> > 6 weeks x $25 per test, twice per week = $300 x 44 (the number they > brag about "catching cheaters" in a month = $13,200 x 10 testing > centers in Arizona = $132,000 x 12 months = $1,584,000 x 50 states = > $79,200,000 in additional revenue. It would serve the public and > the "user" more effectively if that money was spent subsidizing > treatment or counseling. Figure $30K for a 28 day program, that > would be 2,640 people who couldn't afford to pay, or didn't have > health insurance who would be able to go through a 28 day program.> > I'm sure if I spent a little time on it, these numbers would be very > interesting.> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2006 Report Share Posted June 13, 2006 Here is a link to some interesting discussion on dilution criteria: http://www.datia.org/resources/valid_testing.htm > > > > > > > > Is there any definitive research on whether or not an ETG test > > can > > > > be " diluted " ? > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2006 Report Share Posted June 14, 2006 Even our program uses the standard that 2 things have be considered before determining if it is a dilute sample Re: ETG Dilution Is your "dilute" an isolated incident or a chronic problem? By SAMHSA standards, a "dilute" is not automatically considered positive; There are "positive dilutes" and "negative dilutes", depending on whether drugs were detected in the sample. They define "dilute" as the creatinine < 20 mg/dL and the specific gravity < 1.003. Are they also considering the specific gravity? And just how low are the creatinines? I think there is info that supports creatinines as low as 2 ng/dl as compatible with human urine. Could they possibly give you the chance of clearing a dilute by immediately submitting a new sample upon notification of the "dilute"? >> Thanks Lorie - I'm not trying to beat the test, I'm getting beaten > up for "diluted" by the ex's attorney in Family Court (although the > Judge is on my side) who contends, wrongly, that a "diluted" test is > a positive test. Now I have some evidence to that point. Actually > if you think about it, I'd have to drink several thousand liters of > water to effectively dilute the sample beyond recognition! I do > live in Arizona, but it's not that hot! > > In reality, it benefits the "non-profit" TASC organization by > keeping people in testing programs. For example, I was set back 6 > weeks in Family Drug Court (where they send you if the other person > makes unfounded accusations, it's actually a fair program).> > 6 weeks x $25 per test, twice per week = $300 x 44 (the number they > brag about "catching cheaters" in a month = $13,200 x 10 testing > centers in Arizona = $132,000 x 12 months = $1,584,000 x 50 states = > $79,200,000 in additional revenue. It would serve the public and > the "user" more effectively if that money was spent subsidizing > treatment or counseling. Figure $30K for a 28 day program, that > would be 2,640 people who couldn't afford to pay, or didn't have > health insurance who would be able to go through a 28 day program.> > I'm sure if I spent a little time on it, these numbers would be very > interesting.> > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.