Re: Surgery Cost Question

[Guest guest]

Hi Connie,

My implant was done in August of 2006 $97,000 was the hospital bill.

a

On Mar 19, 2007, at 4:21 PM, C J wrote:

> I just received my hospital bill for my second implant and I was

> really surprised how much more it was than my first implant 18

> months ago. I am just curious what hospital bills are running for

> recently implanted people. Mine came in at $95,000. The device of

> course was the largest amount and that was $17,000 more than last

> time.

>

> Very interesting!!!

>

> Connie

>

> " The Miracle at Ohio State "

> aka Nucleus Freedom

> Implanted 10/04/2005

> Activated 11/1/2005

> Surgery: Ohio State University

> Surgeon: Dr. Bradley Welling

> http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > I just received my hospital bill for my second implant and I was

> > really surprised how much more it was than my first implant 18

> > months ago. I am just curious what hospital bills are running for

> > recently implanted people. Mine came in at $95,000. The device of

> > course was the largest amount and that was $17,000 more than last

> > time.

> >

> > Very interesting!!!

> >

> > Connie

> >

> > " The Miracle at Ohio State "

> > aka Nucleus Freedom

> > Implanted 10/04/2005

> > Activated 11/1/2005

> > Surgery: Ohio State University

> > Surgeon: Dr. Bradley Welling

> > http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is my reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course, the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

Nucleus Freedom

Surgery date: 9/6/06

Activation date: 9/27/06

Hello there I just had to but in when I saw the price $97,000.00 I thought

mine cost was outragious my whole bill hospital, doctor, post op the whole

kitten kabuttle was $60,000.00, I had my surgery in June of 2005 and was

turned on in August I am on Medicare and I would like to have the other ear

done but my audi says Medicare won't pay for it right now but they are

talking about it and I have listened to many of you folks who have had such

a miserable time getting your insurance to pay for a CI and no wonder at

these prices, there has got to be something wrong with out American Medical

system that the prices of prescriptions and any medical care is getting

beyond the reach of the average person to afford, what on earth could

possably run a hospital cost up to $97,00.00 I can't for the life of me see

how they could justify a charge like that, I would have to have something

like that audited by an outside source, let me know what you think. I know

one thing the pharmicudical company's are greed greed greed and they are

putting medicines on the market to make money on them that have not been

fully investaged and that is why they have had to recall so many meds.

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Yes, $4,000 is a very small price to pay for better hearing.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

Nucleus Freedom

Surgery date: 9/6/06

Activation date: 9/27/06

RE: Re: Surgery Cost Question

Lynn you are very fortunate that you only had to pay $150 out of pocket. I

will be paying about $4000 out of pocket, however, I still consider it a

small price to pay for better hearing.

Connie

Lynn <HibiscusBelle@...> wrote:

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is

my reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course, the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

Nucleus Freedom

Surgery date: 9/6/06

Activation date: 9/27/06

Hello there I just had to but in when I saw the price $97,000.00 I thought

mine cost was outragious my whole bill hospital, doctor, post op the whole

kitten kabuttle was $60,000.00, I had my surgery in June of 2005 and was

turned on in August I am on Medicare and I would like to have the other ear

done but my audi says Medicare won't pay for it right now but they are

talking about it and I have listened to many of you folks who have had such

a miserable time getting your insurance to pay for a CI and no wonder at

these prices, there has got to be something wrong with out American Medical

system that the prices of prescriptions and any medical care is getting

beyond the reach of the average person to afford, what on earth could

possably run a hospital cost up to $97,00.00 I can't for the life of me see

how they could justify a charge like that, I would have to have something

like that audited by an outside source, let me know what you think. I know

one thing the pharmicudical company's are greed greed greed and they are

putting medicines on the market to make money on them that have not been

fully investaged and that is why they have had to recall so many meds.

" The Miracle at Ohio State "

aka Nucleus Freedom

Implanted 10/04/2005

Activated 11/1/2005

Surgery: Ohio State University

Surgeon: Dr. Bradley Welling

http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021

[Guest guest]

Hi

I understand what you are saying. I fully realize that the hospital will not

see the $95,000 that is billed, however, I was just surprised that there was a

$20,000 difference between my two surgeries in only 18 months. That is a pretty

high inflation rate.

It will be interesting to see what insurance finally gets it down to and then

compare that with the previous surgery.

Connie

" rlw70@... " <rlw70@...> wrote:

I just had to chime in here a little in defense of the

hospitals since I work for one and I know how things play

out on there side (I am not defending the pharmaceuticals

here just from the side of a hospital).

For starters, most hospitals will never see the full $97,000

of that surgery since I would assume that everyone having

this done would have a health insurance policy which would

have a contract with that hospital on how much is covered on

procedures done there. Medicare and Medical Assistance for

most things done in a hospital have an approved cost

somewhere around 50-60% (give or take). So that brings down

the procedure that we are talking about to only $60,000 that

the hospital will ever see in dollars, the rest is written

off as an insurance adjustment. Some insurance companies

pay more and some pay less it all depends on the contract.

I am not saying that health costs are not going through the

roof because I agree that they are but in my opinion it is

the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals that are driving

up the costs. The hospitals have to respond to increase

their prices so that they can survive.

Now I do know that there are hospitals out there that are

bringing in the big dollars and I hope that they are giving

this back in research or whatever and for what I have seen

this is happening. But you have executives of the

pharmaceuticals and insurance companies getting all expense

paid vacations (yes, they are called business trips but

there are a lot of cushion put into those in things that I

have seen a lot of abuse in my research)

Also I can say that unfortunately hospital bills have one of

the highest rates of unpaid debts. Yes, because people

don't have good insurance and the cost is so high this is

understandable but in doing my job I have seen people

driving around new cars, buying " toys " and yet leaving their

bill at the hospital unpaid.

Just so I can through our numbers in here, my daughter was

bilaterally implanted in 2004 and I think that the cost of

this was easily over $150,000 with most of the cost the

implants. I don't remember seeing a bill for her

re-implantation in 2005.

Mom of 4

Marcus 16

14

Jon 13

Annika 5

bilaterally implanted 3/1/04

" The Miracle at Ohio State "

aka Nucleus Freedom

Implanted 10/04/2005

Activated 11/1/2005

Surgery: Ohio State University

Surgeon: Dr. Bradley Welling

http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021

[Guest guest]

I never saw the bill for my implant (Nucleus 3G) as the entire process,

including the after-care

(two years mappings, includng airfares and accomodation as I had to travel

to a different city for this)

was paid for by the NZ Public health system, however I have been told it was

approximately

$NZ50,000. There was a wait of approx two years between initial confirmation

that I was a

suitable candidate and the surgery.

I was also told that, because of efficiencies, having it done privately

would cost less and of course

it could be done immediately, however as I did not have insurance that

wasn't an option.

At todays exchange rates, that $NZ50,000 equals $US35500.

NZ

Re: Surgery Cost Question

>

> > I just received my hospital bill for my second implant and I was

> > really surprised how much more it was than my first implant 18

> > months ago. I am just curious what hospital bills are running for

> > recently implanted people. Mine came in at $95,000. The device of

> > course was the largest amount and that was $17,000 more than last

> > time.

> >

> > Very interesting!!!

> >

> > Connie

> >

> > " The Miracle at Ohio State "

> > aka Nucleus Freedom

> > Implanted 10/04/2005

> > Activated 11/1/2005

> > Surgery: Ohio State University

> > Surgeon: Dr. Bradley Welling

> > http://internalmedi

<http://internalmedicine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021>

cine.osu.edu/article.cfm?ID=2021

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm in Australia, my implant and operation costs were covered under

the disadvantaged and a State government grant, out of this following

quote:

" The costs

For those people involved in a research project there may be no cost

for the procedure - it depends on the project. Some implants are free

to the disadvantaged, elderly and children from State government

grants. Most people, however, can recoup most of the costs through

Private Health Funds if they are in one. The costs of the procedure,

the implant and the training afterwards varies, and although

production techniques are improving all the time each implant is

handmade so the cost for a cochlear implant system is thousands of

dollars. "

http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/hsc/cochlear/the_cochlear.htm

I asked what the cost of the whole operation was and was told

Aus$20,000.00, which equates to US$16,168.00 under todays currency

exchange:

http://www.bloomberg.com/invest/calculators/currency.html#results

Thats a massive difference from the US costs. I was told that the

costing was about 50/50, half for the surgery and the other half for

the processor and follow up stuff, such as mapping.

I dont have any bills to substantiate this, but perhaps someone does.

I'm not convinced that the costs would be cheaper if done in a

private hospital here, as that item implied.

When insurance companies are involved, it seems that costs escalate.

Why can't just the actual costs of such a procedure be listed and

billed?

Ted F.

>

> I never saw the bill for my implant (Nucleus 3G) as the entire

> process, including the after-care (two years mappings, includng

> airfares and accomodation as I had to travel to a different city

> for this) was paid for by the NZ Public health system, however I

> have been told it was approximately $NZ50,000. There was a wait of

> approx two years between initial confirmation that I was a suitable

> candidate and the surgery.

> I was also told that, because of efficiencies, having it done

> privately would cost less and of course it could be done

> immediately, however as I did not have insurance that wasn't an

> option.

> At todays exchange rates, that $NZ50,000 equals $US35500.

>

>

> NZ

>

>

[Guest guest]

The device is pricey, because it's not something most people need. So

not a big demand for it. It's much higher than say a pacemaker, because

fewer people need it, or know about it.

Surgeons train for years, literally, to learn how to do this surgery. In

addition, you have anesthetists, nurses, assistants, and everyone else in

the OR who is paid for as part of the hospital charges. The microscope

the surgeon uses to see what he is doing is rented BY THE HOUR, because

it is a very expensive piece of equipment, and only used in surgeries

like this. So it all adds up.

I would love to see Medicare pay for bilaterals for deaf blind, whom I

think need it more than most adult post lingual users. For post lingual

adults, it is a convenience. For deafblind adults, it is a matter of

life and death in many cases. Yet Medicare denies bilaterals across the

board.

Yes, the cost is outrageous. But to get back hearing, the price is

small. You cannot replace any other sense that is lost, so what price do

you put on hearing? If you don't have insurance, it is way beyond your

means to pay for. But when I look at how things are done in Canada and

the UK where you have free hospitalization coverage, but only a certain

number are done each year and you have no choice of device, I wouldn't be

happy with that. If you look at Hawaii, where Kaiser is the main

insurer, you have to wait for a surgeon to come, and they do children

first, so it again could be YEARS before you get implanted. Someone with

Kaiser said he'd fly to the mainland to get implanted, and Kaiser told

him they wouldn't cover it there, and they wouldn't cover mappings back

in Hawaii, either. You wait, and you wait.

So I guess if you want it done when you want it done and with the device

of your choice, you pay the big premiums and get it done.

1b.

Re: Surgery Cost Question

Posted by: " Lynn " HibiscusBelle@... hibiscusbelle

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 am (PST)

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is my

reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course,

the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the

amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

How do you know so much about the CI, that the microscope is rented by the hour,

and all the rest???

Walk leader

Re: Surgery Cost Question

The device is pricey, because it's not something most people need. So

not a big demand for it. It's much higher than say a pacemaker, because

fewer people need it, or know about it.

Surgeons train for years, literally, to learn how to do this surgery. In

addition, you have anesthetists, nurses, assistants, and everyone else in

the OR who is paid for as part of the hospital charges. The microscope

the surgeon uses to see what he is doing is rented BY THE HOUR, because

it is a very expensive piece of equipment, and only used in surgeries

like this. So it all adds up.

I would love to see Medicare pay for bilaterals for deaf blind, whom I

think need it more than most adult post lingual users. For post lingual

adults, it is a convenience. For deafblind adults, it is a matter of

life and death in many cases. Yet Medicare denies bilaterals across the

board.

Yes, the cost is outrageous. But to get back hearing, the price is

small. You cannot replace any other sense that is lost, so what price do

you put on hearing? If you don't have insurance, it is way beyond your

means to pay for. But when I look at how things are done in Canada and

the UK where you have free hospitalization coverage, but only a certain

number are done each year and you have no choice of device, I wouldn't be

happy with that. If you look at Hawaii, where Kaiser is the main

insurer, you have to wait for a surgeon to come, and they do children

first, so it again could be YEARS before you get implanted. Someone with

Kaiser said he'd fly to the mainland to get implanted, and Kaiser told

him they wouldn't cover it there, and they wouldn't cover mappings back

in Hawaii, either. You wait, and you wait.

So I guess if you want it done when you want it done and with the device

of your choice, you pay the big premiums and get it done.

1b.

Re: Surgery Cost Question

Posted by: " Lynn " HibiscusBelle@... hibiscusbelle

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 am (PST)

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is my

reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course,

the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the

amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

[Guest guest]

That is very very expensive! I wish insurance companies could foot the whole

bill. My insurance thorugh my employer, Walmart (gotta love 'em) covers Cochlear

implants up to the first $60,000 in limited benefits. I'm not sure where I'd get

the rest of the bill paid for. But on April 2nd, I go to UNC-Chapel Hill for a

CI evaluation. I'm thinking pretty much I'm wanting to go with the Nucleus

Freedom. I've also read on the internet that they are developing new mapping

strategies for music listening (pitch and intonation). I'm still wrestling over

the music question since I'm still kinda quiet nervious how music will sound if

I get implanted and hooked up. I'd like to know something though, I know that

CIs directly stimulate the auditory nerve as compared to the amplifiying

capabilities of the HA. I'm wondering how much of a huge difference am I looking

at in comparison between the two? A friend of mine at work, said that hearing

with a CI will sound nothing like what I hear

with a HA. Which makes my brain quiet nervous. I've been reminding myself as of

late that my brain will have to rewire itself to adjust to the new hearing. This

is really my biggest concern about getting a CI in addition to wondering how

things will sound at the initial hook up. I remember seeing on the board that

someone wrote that things sounded like eeeeeee, eeeeee. But I know the

experiences will vary from person to person. Any suggestions on how to get past

these concerns?

Have a great day!

A. Tucker

CI Eval date 4/2/07

UNC-Chapel Hill

M Jansen <nucleus24@...> wrote:

The device is pricey, because it's not something most people need. So

not a big demand for it. It's much higher than say a pacemaker, because

fewer people need it, or know about it.

Surgeons train for years, literally, to learn how to do this surgery. In

addition, you have anesthetists, nurses, assistants, and everyone else in

the OR who is paid for as part of the hospital charges. The microscope

the surgeon uses to see what he is doing is rented BY THE HOUR, because

it is a very expensive piece of equipment, and only used in surgeries

like this. So it all adds up.

I would love to see Medicare pay for bilaterals for deaf blind, whom I

think need it more than most adult post lingual users. For post lingual

adults, it is a convenience. For deafblind adults, it is a matter of

life and death in many cases. Yet Medicare denies bilaterals across the

board.

Yes, the cost is outrageous. But to get back hearing, the price is

small. You cannot replace any other sense that is lost, so what price do

you put on hearing? If you don't have insurance, it is way beyond your

means to pay for. But when I look at how things are done in Canada and

the UK where you have free hospitalization coverage, but only a certain

number are done each year and you have no choice of device, I wouldn't be

happy with that. If you look at Hawaii, where Kaiser is the main

insurer, you have to wait for a surgeon to come, and they do children

first, so it again could be YEARS before you get implanted. Someone with

Kaiser said he'd fly to the mainland to get implanted, and Kaiser told

him they wouldn't cover it there, and they wouldn't cover mappings back

in Hawaii, either. You wait, and you wait.

So I guess if you want it done when you want it done and with the device

of your choice, you pay the big premiums and get it done.

1b.

Re: Surgery Cost Question

Posted by: " Lynn " HibiscusBelle@... hibiscusbelle

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 am (PST)

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is my

reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course,

the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the

amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL

[Guest guest]

, No need to worry. Insurance companies do not pay the 'list price'.

Their cost from what I have seen, is less than $40,000.

Ralph

CII 8/01

HiRes 2/03

> That is very very expensive! I wish insurance companies could foot the

> whole bill. My insurance thorugh my employer, Walmart (gotta love 'em)

> covers Cochlear implants up to the first $60,000 in limited benefits. I'm

> not sure where I'd get the rest of the bill paid for. > Have a great

> day!

>

> A. Tucker

> CI Eval date 4/2/07

> UNC-Chapel Hill

[Guest guest]

Hi Walk Leader - where are we going? Can I bring my pooch?

I know the microscope is rented by the hour because I got an itemized

bill that included the rental.

I also observed the surgery being done a year or so before I had it done

myself.

And I'm a volunteer with Cochlear, so they keep me up on what's going on.

But the itemized bill was what got me. You should SEE what they charge

for a nasty bowl of soup and half a turkey sandwich on stale bread, plus

a diet ginger ale. Made me eat before they let me go.

Hi ,

How do you know so much about the CI, that the microscope is rented by

the hour, and all the rest???

Walk leader

[Guest guest]

, unless your friend at work already has a CI - no-one except a CI

recipient knows what they sound like. And even among CI users, there seems

to be a large variation on how soound is percieved.

In my case I know that the CI hearing is so far in advance of anything the

most powerful HA I could buy that there is no valid comparison.

Initially the sound was different but two years on I honestly cant recall

any instance where the old HA assisted sound was better than what I have now

EXCEPT music which I am not familiar with. That is, If I know the music

from before - it sounds " right " . If it's new to me, the (mainly) vocals

sound a bit gravelly (eg a bit like Rod or Bonnie Tyler) and, given

that most new music is garbage anyway, thats not a problem for me.

What IS important to me is how well it enables me to do the parts of my job

which were just about impossible before, eg, talking to a Help Desk in Asia

on my mobile phone in a noisy work environment and still being able to

understand what is being said.

When I was accepted inot the CI program, I had some doubts but given that my

hearing was so bad and getting worse, I figured I had little to loose and

everything to gain. As always; high hope, low expectations.

BTW how do I remove some of the extra from my reply - at present I can

remove all or nothing

NZ

Re: Re: Surgery Cost Question

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That is very very expensive! I wish insurance companies could foot the whole

bill. My insurance thorugh my employer, Walmart (gotta love 'em) covers

Cochlear implants up to the first $60,000 in limited benefits. I'm not sure

where I'd get the rest of the bill paid for. But on April 2nd, I go to

UNC-Chapel Hill for a CI evaluation. I'm thinking pretty much I'm wanting to

go with the Nucleus Freedom. I've also read on the internet that they are

developing new mapping strategies for music listening (pitch and

intonation). I'm still wrestling over the music question since I'm still

kinda quiet nervious how music will sound if I get implanted and hooked up.

I'd like to know something though, I know that CIs directly stimulate the

auditory nerve as compared to the amplifiying capabilities of the HA. I'm

wondering how much of a huge difference am I looking at in comparison

between the two? A friend of mine at work, said that hearing with a CI will

sound nothing like what I hear

with a HA. Which makes my brain quiet nervous. I've been reminding myself as

of late that my brain will have to rewire itself to adjust to the new

hearing. This is really my biggest concern about getting a CI in addition to

wondering how things will sound at the initial hook up. I remember seeing on

the board that someone wrote that things sounded like eeeeeee, eeeeee. But I

know the experiences will vary from person to person. Any suggestions on how

to get past these concerns?

Have a great day!

A. Tucker

CI Eval date 4/2/07

UNC-Chapel Hill

M Jansen < nucleus24juno (DOT) <mailto:nucleus24%40juno.com> com> wrote:

The device is pricey, because it's not something most people need. So

not a big demand for it. It's much higher than say a pacemaker, because

fewer people need it, or know about it.

Surgeons train for years, literally, to learn how to do this surgery. In

addition, you have anesthetists, nurses, assistants, and everyone else in

the OR who is paid for as part of the hospital charges. The microscope

the surgeon uses to see what he is doing is rented BY THE HOUR, because

it is a very expensive piece of equipment, and only used in surgeries

like this. So it all adds up.

I would love to see Medicare pay for bilaterals for deaf blind, whom I

think need it more than most adult post lingual users. For post lingual

adults, it is a convenience. For deafblind adults, it is a matter of

life and death in many cases. Yet Medicare denies bilaterals across the

board.

Yes, the cost is outrageous. But to get back hearing, the price is

small. You cannot replace any other sense that is lost, so what price do

you put on hearing? If you don't have insurance, it is way beyond your

means to pay for. But when I look at how things are done in Canada and

the UK where you have free hospitalization coverage, but only a certain

number are done each year and you have no choice of device, I wouldn't be

happy with that. If you look at Hawaii, where Kaiser is the main

insurer, you have to wait for a surgeon to come, and they do children

first, so it again could be YEARS before you get implanted. Someone with

Kaiser said he'd fly to the mainland to get implanted, and Kaiser told

him they wouldn't cover it there, and they wouldn't cover mappings back

in Hawaii, either. You wait, and you wait.

So I guess if you want it done when you want it done and with the device

of your choice, you pay the big premiums and get it done.

1b.

Re: Surgery Cost Question

Posted by: " Lynn " HibiscusBelle@ <mailto:HibiscusBelle%40mchsi.com>

mchsi.com hibiscusbelle

Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:41 am (PST)

Connie posted the same question to the Nucleus Forum, and here is my

reply:

" I just pulled mine out, and my hospital bill submitted to insurance was

$97,086.64, of which, the CI device was billed at $82,913.75. Of course,

the

insurance only paid them $33,830.32, plus I paid $150.00 deductible. This

does not include the surgeon and the anesthesiologist who were paid

separately. "

I am curious as to how much the hospitals are actually being PAID for the

surgery since the amount paid was very drastically reduced from the

amount

billed.

Lynn

Fairhope, AL