Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Dixie - Could you send the research that states the number of pitches for each device? I would be very interesting in seeing this. I was in the 120 trials. I can only speak from my experience, and that was the significant improvement in listening to music with the 120 device. Using a direct connect, I listened to the radio, and an old Beatles song started playing. I was immediately dumbfounded and just had a blank look on my face. The audiologist kept looking at me like ...... well - what do you think??? I literally got tears in my eyes, as it had been over 30 years since I was able to listen to a song and hear so clearly. I do not have musical background, but listening to the radio and digital books gives me a lot of enjoyment, and the new 120 device did significantly improve my ability to do both. I am bilateral and do great with the Aurias, but I am eager to upgrade to the 120. Not only was music clearer, but also speech. I felt like I was functioning like a " normal " (as if I was ever normal person. The more researchers truly understand how we use pitches and the hearing process, the more we will be able to benefit from their work. We are very lucky that both companies are continuing to work to improve their technology. It is just going to get better and better for all of us. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Why has FDA not yet approved AB's 120 channels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 I don't think anyone can answer this but if you are out there and can answer this question, it would be interesting to know how the FDA goes thru this process. Bob - Do you know? Alice http://www..com > > Why has FDA not yet approved AB's 120 channels? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 > > > > Why has FDA not yet approved AB's 120 channels? > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi I don't know about an actual approval but I do know a large number of individuals have been using the 120 channel strategy by Advanced Bionics. Sometimes before something is released centers need to be trained and things need to be fine tuned. Maybe this is what is going on as we continue to see more and more people using the 120 strategy. If you have not read Chorost book you might find it very intersting. His web address is http://www.michaelchorost.com/ Kim B Advanced Bionics CI > > Why has FDA not yet approved AB's 120 channels? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hey Dixie Thanks for sharing. Can you share the publication article on this? I have searched high and low for information on this 161 number. It was not mentioned at the CI-2006 meeting and I heard nothing of it at HLAA. Although I did not inquire at HLAA about it because it did not come to mind. Also if this is already happening for ACE users - why is it not mentioned on Cochlear's website. Sure would be intersting to learn more about how they are doing this. Thanks Kim B Advanced Bionics CI > > Kim, > > It's my understanding that Nucleus users are hearing 161 pitches with > the ACE strategy. I read somewhere that the AB 120 channel will allow > 127 pitches. It's not something Cochlear is working on, it's already > happening for ACE users on the N24 and Freedom. > > I can remember my audiologist in Nashville telling me that there are > more programing capabilities with Nucleus than any other device. At > that time, April 2004, there were 80,000 different mapping capabilities > on the N24C. I believe with the Freedom, it's even more. > > Dixie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Hi Folks, I have been away so I am not sure what specific studies people are looking for, however I do recall reading and study abstract recently about pitch perception (I will have to search for it) and it did stated many users of the ACE strategy could discriminate 161 different pitches. I believe it was an HEI study published in Audiology Online - I will look again. Here is one that is a bit older however it is very technical and the abstract does not give a very clear explaination but take a peak... http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 I will search for the other studies I remember reading because I know I read several and I know they are out there somewhere. Regards, Mike " Ears Hopin " P > > > > Kim, > > > > It's my understanding that Nucleus users are hearing 161 pitches > with > > the ACE strategy. I read somewhere that the AB 120 channel will > allow > > 127 pitches. It's not something Cochlear is working on, it's > already > > happening for ACE users on the N24 and Freedom. > > > > I can remember my audiologist in Nashville telling me that there > are > > more programing capabilities with Nucleus than any other device. > At > > that time, April 2004, there were 80,000 different mapping > capabilities > > on the N24C. I believe with the Freedom, it's even more. > > > > Dixie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hi Mike I can not thank you enough for finding this. THANK YOU!! Maybe you can help me understand this one though as I was confused as I read it. I do not see in here where it is ACE that is discriminating the 161 pitches. It talks about a brand new strategy called F0mod that was tried on six Nucleus users in Belguim. Maybe I am reading this wrong as I did not purchase the full document. The article that I found through the link you provided was: Music perception and appraisal is very poor in cochlear implant (CI) subjects partly because (musical) pitch is inadequately transmitted by the current clinically used sound processors. A new sound processing scheme (F0mod) was designed to optimize pitch perception, and its performance for music and pitch perception was compared in four different experiments to that of the current clinically used sound processing scheme (ACE) in six Nucleus CI24 subjects. In the F0mod scheme, slowly varying channel envelopes are explicitly modulated sinusoidally at the fundamental frequency (F0) of the input signal, with 100% modulation depth and in phase across channels to maximize temporal envelope pitch cues. The results of the four experiments show that: (1) F0 discrimination of single- formant stimuli was not significantly different for the two schemes, (2) F0 discrimination of musical notes of five instruments was three times better with the F0mod scheme for F0 up to 250 Hz, (3) melody recognition of familiar Flemish songs (with all rhythm cues removed) was improved with the F0mod scheme, and (4) estimates of musical pitch intervals, obtained in a musically trained CI subject, matched more closely the presented intervals with the F0mod scheme. These results indicate that explicit F0 modulation of the channel envelopes improves music perception in CI subjects. > > Hi Folks, > > I have been away so I am not sure what specific studies people are > looking for, however I do recall reading and study abstract recently > about pitch perception (I will have to search for it) and it did > stated many users of the ACE strategy could discriminate 161 > different pitches. I believe it was an HEI study published in > Audiology Online - I will look again. > > Here is one that is a bit older however it is very technical and the > abstract does not give a very clear explaination but take a peak... > > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? > Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > I will search for the other studies I remember reading because I know > I read several and I know they are out there somewhere. > > Regards, > Mike " Ears Hopin " P > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Fer God's sake, can we PLEASE cite whatever studies or findings in either URLs or specific quotes? This thread is getting crazy ! Facts, datelines, authors. Please! Bob......... > Re: Nucleus > > > Hi Mike > > I can not thank you enough for finding this. THANK YOU!! > > Maybe you can help me understand this one though as I was confused > as I read it. I do not see in here where it is ACE that is > discriminating the 161 pitches. It talks about a brand new strategy > called F0mod that was tried on six Nucleus users in Belguim. Maybe > I am reading this wrong as I did not purchase the full document. > > The article that I found through the link you provided was: > Music perception and appraisal is very poor in cochlear implant (CI) > subjects partly because (musical) pitch is inadequately transmitted > by the current clinically used sound processors. A new sound > processing scheme (F0mod) was designed to optimize pitch perception, > and its performance for music and pitch perception was compared in > four different experiments to that of the current clinically used > sound processing scheme (ACE) in six Nucleus CI24 subjects. In the > F0mod scheme, slowly varying channel envelopes are explicitly > modulated sinusoidally at the fundamental frequency (F0) of the > input signal, with 100% modulation depth and in phase across > channels to maximize temporal envelope pitch cues. The results of > the four experiments show that: (1) F0 discrimination of single- > formant stimuli was not significantly different for the two schemes, > (2) F0 discrimination of musical notes of five instruments was three > times better with the F0mod scheme for F0 up to 250 Hz, (3) melody > recognition of familiar Flemish songs (with all rhythm cues removed) > was improved with the F0mod scheme, and (4) estimates of musical > pitch intervals, obtained in a musically trained CI subject, matched > more closely the presented intervals with the F0mod scheme. These > results indicate that explicit F0 modulation of the channel > envelopes improves music perception in CI subjects. > > > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > I have been away so I am not sure what specific studies people are > > looking for, however I do recall reading and study abstract > recently > > about pitch perception (I will have to search for it) and it did > > stated many users of the ACE strategy could discriminate 161 > > different pitches. I believe it was an HEI study published in > > Audiology Online - I will look again. > > > > Here is one that is a bit older however it is very technical and > the > > abstract does not give a very clear explaination but take a peak... > > > > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? > > Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > > > I will search for the other studies I remember reading because I > know > > I read several and I know they are out there somewhere. > > > > Regards, > > Mike " Ears Hopin " P > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Sorry Bob Article Information Received: October 14, 2004 Accepted after revision: June 29, 2005 Published online: October 10, 2005 Number of Print Pages : 15 Number of Figures : 6, Number of Tables : 2, Number of References : 44 Articles web address was posted in Mike's email below but here it is again http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > I have been away so I am not sure what specific studies people are > > > looking for, however I do recall reading and study abstract > > recently > > > about pitch perception (I will have to search for it) and it did > > > stated many users of the ACE strategy could discriminate 161 > > > different pitches. I believe it was an HEI study published in > > > Audiology Online - I will look again. > > > > > > Here is one that is a bit older however it is very technical and > > the > > > abstract does not give a very clear explaination but take a peak... > > > > > > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? > > > Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > > > > > I will search for the other studies I remember reading because I > > know > > > I read several and I know they are out there somewhere. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Mike " Ears Hopin " P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Poor Bob, but he is right and we really need to do this, not only for his sakes but for all of us who want factual information. *---* *---* *---* *---* *---* " If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose. " --Jack Handley & Dreamer Doll (Guide Dawggie) Newport, Oregon N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup rclark0276@... http://webpages.charter.net/dog_guide/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 No sorry for Bob,KIm, at least in this function: That all of the CI makers have miserably failed in address of how their systems will provide stereo, two channel, in a a bilateraL ci scenario. On these lists, we remain plagued by the reticince of the official word from the makers, in comment in such as this. And that, IMHO, is an attitude problem in need of change. In other words, if you have truth to speak, then say it. OK, Cohlear, AB and Med-El? So, dear above, should a bilateral user of your brand hear in stereo? Tell me now, please! > Re: Nucleus > > > Sorry Bob > > Article Information > > Received: October 14, 2004 > Accepted after revision: June 29, 2005 > Published online: October 10, 2005 > Number of Print Pages : 15 > Number of Figures : 6, Number of Tables : 2, Number of References : > 44 > > > Articles web address was posted in Mike's email below but here it is > again > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? > Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > > > > > I have been away so I am not sure what specific studies people > are > > > > looking for, however I do recall reading and study abstract > > > recently > > > > about pitch perception (I will have to search for it) and it > did > > > > stated many users of the ACE strategy could discriminate 161 > > > > different pitches. I believe it was an HEI study published in > > > > Audiology Online - I will look again. > > > > > > > > Here is one that is a bit older however it is very technical > and > > > the > > > > abstract does not give a very clear explaination but take a > peak... > > > > > > > > http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp? > > > > > Aktion=ShowAbstract & ArtikelNr=88853 & ProduktNr=224213 & Ausgabe=231432 > > > > > > > > I will search for the other studies I remember reading because > I > > > know > > > > I read several and I know they are out there somewhere. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Mike " Ears Hopin " P > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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