Something to think about

[Guest guest]

Thank you Joyce. I don't know if organic would really save you... I'm

trying to think from what angles the cows would be exposed... the feed,

obviously, what disturbs me is that minks, the deer family, sheep, humans,

(beavers?) and I think at least one other mammal has been confirmed to carry

this. The processing facility, no matter how well the cows are treated, if

they are processed in a facility that doesn't REALLY sanitize things... and

with the nature of the prions (abnormal proteins) which defy the common

standard of biological propagation.. No ground meats probably, if you want

to be really safe. The fly larvae really freaks me, and if wild

transmissable animals can spread it just from raiding domesticated livestock

feed... add to that the immunizations with bovine products... oh jeez... it

does seem daunting, doesn't it? It brings me to wonder: is THIS how the

apocalypse is going to bring this whole mess down? Or is this just one of

the catalysts? Cause you know we're reaching critical mass already. Just a

matter of time. Does anyone else feel that the time is near? I'm not kidding

here, I like to joke but this is as serious as it gets.

Something to think about

> I would like to know if everyone is aware of the risks out there in meat?

I bought some beef from a country butcher shop and am still looking for a

grass fed organic source. Joyce

>

> http://www.disinfo.com/pages/article/id906/pg3/

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/25/2002 8:15:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

a.hultman@... writes:

<< The processing facility, no matter how well the cows are treated, if

they are processed in a facility that doesn't REALLY sanitize things >>

I can't get fresh organic meats or vegetables. The token organic section

looks like last years carrots and celery and everything seems petrified. In

my early ladder climbing days I was an apprentice meat cutter for a while.

All of the processing areas were kept scrupulously clean since I did most of

the cleaning (apprentice=gopher, cleanup etc). Cleaning was daily at the end

of the day and deep cleaning once a week. We never had anyone get sick or

have any reported health problems. Inspectors (both company and Government)

came around about once every couple of months or so and we never did anything

special to get ready for them. There was a large freezer at 0 degrees, fresh

meat storage at 33 degrees and the prep room at about 38 degrees. I also had

the pleasure of touring the Eckrich Meat Plant and there people wear clean

suits and masks. At the store Beef was brought in in quarters wrapped in

cheese cloth, chicken iced down in boxes. Briskets and rib racks are all

boxed and sealed in plastic. Everything was very clean when we received it.

The beef is broken down and sliced for sale then immediately put back in the

33 degree area. Chickens come 24 to a box and are process packaged or cut up

for sale (I could do a chicken in about 30 seconds). Anytime anything

smelled or seemed even a little funny, the whole lot was set aside, changed

out, and destroyed. If (when) you cut yourself, you had the wound thoroughly

cleaned, bandaged, and you wore a glove to not contaminate anything.

I think that there's been a lot of press on this and it sounds worse than it

is. Foods that end up with e-coli or are spoiled are caused by a bad

process. If you go to a meat market day in and day out and don't get bad

meat, chances are that it is a clean market and has a workable process. The

area should also smell clean. I think the problem comes from large processing

plants located away from the area that have a lot of transportation time to

market and do a volume business where cross contamination occurs. The meat

begins to spoil the minute the animal is slaughtered. The more time it takes

to process it and get it to market the higher the chance of spoilage. Buy

your meat, especially ground beef, locally prepared. Your local butcher is

not going to put organ meat or any other " stuff " in it and he's not going to

take chances or he won't be in business for long. He knows that if you get a

bad piece of meat you won't be back.

Red meat is pretty forgiving and lasts much longer than fish, shell fish or

chicken. Spoiled red meat stinks or smells funny-- " brown " red meat is aged

and is wonderful as long as it smells OK. Pork turns green as it spoils and

may smell like medicine before it stinks. Fish are old if the eyes are

cloudly. I buy my fish with the heads on. I usually freeze any meat/fish

etc if I'm not going to use it right away. Take precautions, if it doesn't

look right or smell right, don't buy it or take it back. If we eat the meats

and vegetables from our area or prepared in our area, we should be OK. Sorry

to be so long.

Max

[Guest guest]

This was very helpful for me. We do have a local meat

market not far away, and I am going to visit it soon

and check it out.

--- Maddviking@... wrote:

If we eat the meats

> and vegetables from our area or prepared in our

> area, we should be OK. Sorry

> to be so long.

> Max

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

cut & pasting & interjecting as usual

Maddviking wrote:

> I can't get fresh organic meats or vegetables. The token organic section

> looks like last years carrots and celery and everything seems petrified.

*Freshness matters, old organic isn't gonna be as good as fresh homegrown.

My condolences.*

> In my early ladder climbing days I was an apprentice meat cutter for a

while.

> All of the processing areas were kept scrupulously clean since I did most

of

> the cleaning (apprentice=gopher, cleanup etc). Cleaning was daily at the

end

> of the day and deep cleaning once a week. We never had anyone get sick or

> have any reported health problems. Inspectors (both company and

Government)

> came around about once every couple of months or so and we never did

anything

> special to get ready for them.

*But here I'm talking about the possibility of TSE (transmissisable

spongiform encephalopathy), which, in the article linked to which I was

replying could be trasnmitted to livestock from bonemeal in the soil

(fertilizer), contaminated feed from wildlife, such as the deers (cited as

5-15%? in SW America), and incidental exposure from " reclaimed " animal

" products " being recycled back into the livestock. Just one infected animal,

with a variant of " mad cow " , not necessary to show " mad cow " symptoms as the

" downer cow " could carry these disasterous prions, once ground in the

processing facility, not one of the cows from your trusted grass-fed

livestock farmer but from the cow processed before his... maybe on the same

day? (large processing facilities could easily process more than one

farmer's animals) and grind grind grind right through the meat grinder they

go... disinfectants, sterilizers, they don't really do the trick with this

thing. I'm just responding to the article. I've never gotten bad meat, I've

eaten old meat that didn't feel right but that was MY fault. All the ground

I've eaten were good, my farmers so far have made excellent meat products,

as far as I can tell, I'm just concerned about the possibility of a real

" hidden epidemic " as our government seems so keen on keeping the public safe

from its own hysteria... and if this article turns out to be even remotely

true, wouldn't panic be appropriate?*

> Take precautions, if it doesn't

> look right or smell right, don't buy it or take it back. If we eat the

meats

> and vegetables from our area or prepared in our area, we should be OK.

Sorry

> to be so long.

> Max

You are forgiven, Max the Mad Viking. I appreciate your input in this

matter, it is comforting to know that people working the meat processing

occupations are/were doing their job. The Wedge, where I shop when not

buying directly from the farmers, has very high standards and I trust them.

The farmers I buy from get their animals processed and sell the meat

directly to their customers, I go to the nearby Farmer's Market for my

produce and animal flesh and order meats from Whole Farm Co-Op, a

cooperative of family owned independent farms practicing sustainable (sane)

agriculture providing wholesome, grass-fed animal products to poor city folk

like myself. Their farmers send the animals in, they get processed and the

co-op sells them to lucky folks like myself who know they exist. My

situation is no butcher really, no meat department, just the farmers, the

processing facility, the freezers and my freezer, at least, that's how I

understand it. No middle man. This still leaves the opportunity for exposure

to nvTSE...

[Guest guest]

>The processing facility, no matter how well the cows are treated, if they are

processed in a facility that doesn't REALLY sanitize things...

How right you are! I forgot that even autoclaving will not help. Have you read

about this ?

>Does anyone else feel that the time is near? I'm not kidding here, I like to

joke but this is as serious as it gets.

I know you aren't joking . I really believe that all the prophecy in the Bible

has come to pass. I am not a Bible thumper in fact a lot of it I want to stay in

denial about. But I know too much I don't mean just from reading..rather I know

because I have " known " things that have came to pass.My husband doesn't even

question anymore.... I can't go into details. But maybe when those people

(Shaklee) we could talk about the fact that there is nothing safe to eat anymore

and the illuminata etc...it usually drives everyone away. (Sad but true from my

experience.

When I mention the Bible everyone seems to run the other way especially in

regards to prophecy. But it seems when it comes from a Native American source

many are interested also the quatrains of Nostradamus perks ears up. Have you

read about the Bible codes ?

The Bible has never been wrong and in Deut. it says a true prophet is Never

Wrong! Nostradamus has been many times as well as many cults., plus he is hard

to understand!

The Bible says there will be tribulation like the world has never seen and that

people will need a mark to buy or sell. Did you ever hear that ? Yes Axel I

think the end is very near and the world has been made ready to receive the

delusion. " The Smart Card " (as an example) which would have made no sense years

ago really looks good in this day and age.

I find it interesting that the Hopi Indians keep a 3 year supply of food on

hand, a lot of Biblical prophecy experts feel this food problem will last about

3 and 1/2 years. I think this is more than a coincidence.

Joyce

[Guest guest]

I agree with you Axel and I am at a disadvantage since I haven't read your

post on this--I'm guessing it was probably posted to the list preMax. If I'm

understanding you right, you're saying don't eat meat from animals that have

eaten feed contaminated with bonemeal or other " filler " from other animals,

in other words herbivores eating carnivores or other herbivores. This I

heartily agree with. The meat at my market advertises that it is grass feed

angus beef. My comments were simply about the processing. Poison, however

safely processed, is still poison.

Another scarey thought that you may have touched on is that science is

finding evidence that injecting hormones in beef isn't so much a danger to us

eating the beef since the resulting chemical castration causes less overall

hormone production by the animal but that some of the hormone is passed out

of the animal's body to the ground and eventually to the soil and our food

plants.

Max

[Guest guest]

Re: Something to think about

>The processing facility, no matter how well the cows are treated, if they

are processed in a facility that doesn't REALLY sanitize things...

How right you are! I forgot that even autoclaving will not help. Have you

read about this ?

*Don't know the specifics of autoclaving.*

>Does anyone else feel that the time is near? I'm not kidding here, I like

to joke but this is as serious as it gets.

I know you aren't joking . I really believe that all the prophecy in the

Bible has come to pass. I am not a Bible thumper in fact a lot of it I want

to stay in denial about. But I know too much I don't mean just from

reading..rather I know because I have " known " things that have came to

pass.My husband doesn't even question anymore.... I can't go into details.

But maybe when those people (Shaklee) we could talk about the fact that

there is nothing safe to eat anymore and the illuminata etc...it usually

drives everyone away. (Sad but true from my experience.

*Conspiracies abound. The government, whore to various industries. The rich

and informed (the movers and shakers) over the ignorant masses (getting

stupider every day, thanks to a deficient diet). What IS safe to eat? It

seems that due to the " powers that be " there is very little left.*

When I mention the Bible everyone seems to run the other way especially in

regards to prophecy. But it seems when it comes from a Native American

source many are interested also the quatrains of Nostradamus perks ears up.

Have you read about the Bible codes ?

The Bible has never been wrong and in Deut. it says a true prophet is Never

Wrong! Nostradamus has been many times as well as many cults., plus he is

hard to understand!

The Bible says there will be tribulation like the world has never seen and

that people will need a mark to buy or sell. Did you ever hear that ? Yes

Axel I think the end is very near and the world has been made ready to

receive the delusion. " The Smart Card " (as an example) which would have made

no sense years ago really looks good in this day and age.

*Isn't most of American society based on lies and delusion? I'd say more

than 4/5s is untruth. Yes, the time is near.*

*I have no problem with some parts of the Bible, just that most

Bible-thumpers prove themselves to be disgusting people. I'm Jewish-born,

found out about my own Jewish family tree, and found out about some Orthodox

Jews who lived across the street from Grandma's house, me, my mom and sister

stayed there for a week, years later I lived with my grandma and got to know

somewhat those Orthodox people... found out my own grandma was supposedly

raised in an Orthodox household. Ole' Grandma with her Dr. Dad became a

psychiatrist herself, the neighbors are a very religious family, dad is

Rabbi, mom is Rabbitzen.... yet they were pretty disgusting people. Whenever

I hear reference to the Bible or Tenach I wince, I have very bad assocations

with religious people and organized religion. That doesn't discount the

possibility of prophecy, or that there isn't wisdom or beautiful concepts

explored and elaborated on in religious texts, just that I find religious

people and the organized religions as they have been applied to be

offensive. I think many other people have been put off for the same reasons.

The time is nearing, don't need a religious text to know that, just a mind

that can grasp that we're pushing our planet beyond the balance.

Self-fulfilling prophecies.... does it take a prophecy to create a

manifestation? Are we creating the apocalypse with our minds, in a manner

that precedes the actual phenomena that contribute to the approaching

disaster(s)? Study of the mind would suggest this is also true. Belief

systems can have powerful effects.*

*But be careful when you say the Bible is never wrong. The real Bible is

from the language and people in which it was originally written, Hebrew. I

have a direct translation of the Hebrew Bible into English, and I see

specific instructions to kill without compassion all neighbors who worship

new gods, who stray from the Hebrew religion. Are you Jewish? If not, I

could kill you, and it would be " God's will " according to my heritage.

Remember, G-d instructed my people to wipe out neighboring tribes... at one

point. Remember, Jews are superior and can and should reign supreme over all

others in the human realm. How do you like this kind of thinking? Nazis... I

learned in a powerful way from the Orthodoxy that the Nazis may have been

pretty evil, but seriously, there is another side to that dark history... it

is far more complex than it is commonly presented. The Jews, in totality,

are NOT so innocent. No judeo-christian faith is. A bloody, terrible

history, with passages from that book used to justify just about anything.

Be VERY careful when making a broad statement that the Bible is never

wrong... I own the direct translation to english... this is scary stuff. If

it IS true... boy am I glad I'm Jewish!*

I find it interesting that the Hopi Indians keep a 3 year supply of food on

hand, a lot of Biblical prophecy experts feel this food problem will last

about 3 and 1/2 years. I think this is more than a coincidence.

Joyce

*Nice to be prepared. Wish I were that prepared. The problem with prophecy

is that the phrophecy depends on the interpretation of it, and the

interpretation can only be from the people, they are rarely spelled out so

specifically as to give a clear description. However, the Mayan and Incan

calenders are very specific, the next and final age is the end of 2011 or

2012, I forget. Almost coincides with the estimated arrival of the

nanotechnolgical age... the calenders of the ancient peoples of Central and

South America have to this day remained incredibly accurate, and back then

what was their form of technology? Well, mechanical technology was not up to

our level... but there is far more than mechanical technology...*

*Careful Joyce... THEY are always watching...*

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/26/2002 1:26:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

meand@... writes:

<< We buy our beef from a friend and have it butchered and frozen locally.

Even used to help in the packing of the lambs we grow for our own use.

Also raise our own chickens , dh and I butcher and pack them within the

hour of taking them out of the pen, so *I *know how clean they are. >>

Boy do I envy you guys. I came out of the farmland and beef country of

northern Indiana and I miss the red meat. Here in Georgia the seafood is

great but the meat can be pretty bad. " Course, I'm pretty picky. I agree

that steaks and roasts are the safest buy. If I buy ground beef, I get the

most expensive and burn it before I eat it.

Max

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/26/2002 1:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

a.hultman@... writes:

<< the Mayan and Incan

calenders are very specific, the next and final age is the end of 2011 or

2012 >>

I think this refers to the end of the 28,000 year cycle that is tied to the

wobble in the rotation of the earth. In 2012 (about) the old cycle ends and

a new cycle begins. They'll probably raise taxes.

Max

[Guest guest]

Thanks Max, for telling about the meatpacking. You are right to advocate local

processing. We buy our beef from a friend and have it butchered and frozen

locally. Even used to help in the packing of the lambs we grow for our own use.

Also raise our own chickens , dh and I butcher and pack them within the hour of

taking them out of the pen, so *I *know how clean they are.

In the summer dh catches some local trout and they are taken care of right away

too. I do buy some salmon once in a while, yum.

Of course it all takes a lot of time ,but I feel we are fortunate to have the

opportunity to do these things for ourselves.

I think steaks and roasts are the safest from the grocery store. Hamburger needs

to be thouroughly cooked to be on the safe side.

Just my 2c

Emmi

[Guest guest]

Axel ,

I have been having problems with my computer server the last two days. It was

down most of the time. I just received this reply from you.

>I think many other people have been put off for the same reasons. The time is

nearing, don't need a religious text to know that, just a mind that can grasp

that we're pushing our planet beyond the balance. Self-fulfilling prophecies....

does it take a prophecy to create a

manifestation? Are we creating the apocalypse with our minds, in a manner that

precedes the actual phenomena that contribute to the approaching disaster(s)?

Study of the mind would suggest this is also true. Belief systems can have

powerful effectsHow right you are<

No comment here...have to think about this.......

>But be careful when you say the Bible is never wrong.

I wrote before I thought that statement through. There are 2 different versions

of creation. So I will take that back.

>The real Bible is from the language and people in which it was originally

written, Hebrew. I have a direct translation of the Hebrew Bible into English,

and I see specific instructions to kill without compassion all neighbors who

worship new gods, who stray from the Hebrew religion. Are you Jewish? If not, I

could kill you, and it would be " God's will " according to my heritage.<

You are forgetting about the examples of Ruth and Rahab. Ruth was the

Grandmother of King and Yashua is a direct descendant of His.Yet Ruth was

a Moabite and Rahab a prostitute- I love to read the Bible. I can relate to

he was always up or " Cast " down it seems. (like a sheep)

As far as most (or all) Christians all I would have to do is tell them I have a

" tail " and they would run! I Know they are *Listening* What can they do to me

besides kill me ?

I'm not a Jew. I have negative blood remember ? My Dad's closest friend is. His

name is Sheila. He actually has 7 names. I named my son after one of those

names. My husband and I are close friends with other Jews.

I have been mistaken for a Jew many times. My Dad too I guess due to our olive

skin.

My Dad was a believer. He would read his Bible everyday and told me to not

listen to others only the Spirit which would guide me in all truth. He also has

a different of looking into things. For example in the New Testament the Jews

were either Pharisee's or Sadducees. My Dad said they were called this because

the Pharisee's believed in eternal life " Far I See " ....and the Sadducees didn't

so they were " Sad U See " .

One of my favorite verses is Genesis 27:46 when was upset because Easu

married Hittite women. She said to Isaac if (later called Israel) marries

a Hittite my life won't be worth living. I agree. Hittites were probably

unbearable people. I know a woman who Hit's all the time and she is enough to

not make one want to live. Not meant to be funny!

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Axel , an Autoclave usually kills all germs etc. They have found they do

not work on Mad Cow due to the surgical steel instruments being embedded with

the disease..pretty freaky. Huh ?

http://www.harrellmedical.com/sterile%20processing%20-%20autoclaves.htm

Alert Issued on Surgical Instruments

By LINDSEY TANNER

AP Medical Writer

(AP) CHICAGO

Fourteen patients at two hospitals may have been exposed to a rare and

deadly brain disease through tainted surgical instruments, according to an alert

issued Tuesday to hospitals nationwide.

The patients at both hospitals, Exempla St. ph in Denver and Tulane

University Hospital and Clinic in New Orleans, underwent surgery in which

instruments were used that had been previously used on people later diagnosed

with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease.

Neither case involved the form of the ailment that may be related to mad

cow disease, according to the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare

Organizations.

The nonprofit group sent the alert to the nearly 5,000 hospitals

nationwide that it monitors and accredits.

Because normal sterilization techniques don't kill the organism that

causes the disease, the commission said all surgical instruments used in

neurosurgery when a diagnosis is uncertain should be quarantined " until an

unclear diagnosis or biopsy is clarified. "

The commission also said hospitals should establish policies for disposal

of instruments used when Creutzfeldt-Jakob is suspected or confirmed.

The commission said officials at Exempla urged it to spread the word to

other hospitals to help them avoid similar cases. While the alert does not

mention Tulane by name, officials there acknowledged last year that eight

patients had been similarly exposed.

Six patients at Exempla were exposed last year and so far have shown no

sign of the disease, said commission spokeswoman Charlene Hill.

They all underwent brain biopsies with instruments that had been used on a

patient who did not show signs of the deadly disease and who underwent a biopsy

to rule out another ailment.

Creutzfeld-Jakob was diagnosed in the initial patient three weeks after

the biopsy, the commission said.

The form of the disease involved is degenerative and typically occurs in

older people, affecting about 6,000 people worldwide each year. It can take up

to 20 years for symptoms to appear and most patients die within 14 months of the

first symptoms.

" These are remarkably hardy transmissable agents, " said Dr. T.

, a s Hopkins University neurologist, in a commission news release.

" Usual disinfection methods _ rapid disinfection, boiling, alcohol _ are

not effective, " said. " Health care organizations need to establish a

policy for disinfecting or throwing away instruments used in neurological

surgery on suspected or confirmed CJD patients. "

Exempla now uses disposable instruments in undiagnosed brain biopsies and

in known Creutzfeldt-Jakob cases whenever possible, the commission said.

The World Health Organization also recommends single-use surgical

instruments and the destruction of reusable instruments that come in contact

with highly infective tissue.

Dr. Alan , a Tulane vice president, said last October that the

hospital stopped using the surgical instruments involved as soon as officials

realized a patient had died from the disease.

said at the time that the eight exposed patients were receiving

counseling but didn't say if they were infected.

He could not be reached for comment Tuesday. Hospital spokeswoman Madeline

Vann did not immediately return a phone call seeking details on the Tulane

cases.

[Guest guest]

You're funny. I hope I don't have to kill you for not being Jewish, it would

be a major bummer. Until G-d rewards me for making space for the " Chosen

People " . Or something along those lines... anyways. What does having

negative blood have to do with Jewishness? My mom is probably O, she could

be a B (as an OB of course) but she eats like an O. My mother's mother (my

digusting jewish grandma) is a B, but my mom seems like an O. My Gentile

father, however, is a confirmed B, and must therefore be an OB. Though Jews

have a higher proportion of B-ness it is my Gentile father, whose genes are

from England and Scandinavia (Oh Norse Gods of Sweden, save me from my

Portnoy-ish neurotic Jewishness!) who is the B in the family. I'm an O+...

the dirty Rabbitzen I made reference to in my previous post is type O-....

according to conservative Orthodox criteria, in order to qualify for genetic

" Jewishness " a person must be born to a Jewish mother, that is all. My

father is a Gentile, so... no matter. My mother and father never practiced

any religion, I was brought up religion free. I was a self-labeled athiest,

though I was always so interested in parapsychological and paranormal

things... anything which pushed the barrier of the mundane and the

fantastical. In the end I strove to understand all of reality, which

necessitates something of spirituality... the organizing forces which form

all things from beyond the physical realm. My point of view to things

spiritual and religious is from a lot of the " good " science, which is in

disagreement with a lot of mainstream science. I am looking forward to

seeing the quality thinkers and research validate the ancient wisdom in the

various religious traditions of the world. From my experiences of most

science I do not like science, from my direct experiences with all organized

religions I do not like religion, but I try to find the best knowledge I can

from both... where and when I can.

Though I have the Jewish Old Testament (Tenach, Stone edition) I have read

hardly any of it. I was surprised to read at a random part " and the women

will decide where the men will come, and the men will come where the women

want them to... " That is totally weird! I'm thinking: is this what I THINK

it is? I mean, it sounds like healthy advice and all... given some of the

problem areas of this American culture... I used to work in a... er... eh...

" book " store of sorts so I can totally understand... but it is weird to read

in the Old Tenach! That part sounded wise... I just don't know exactly how

to feel about the book. I see some really scary, supremacist stuff... and

other, wise, good stuff which makes sense from a transpersonal psychological

perspective.

Yeah, we have to be careful, very careful when discussing such personal

things... even in this mailing list. People can easily become.... zealous!

Good intentions or no... people get riled up about this. However, I would

like to put out an offer: I'm looking for open-minded, responsible people

to engage in a kind of inwardly directed prayer group, or,

" distance-healing " group. I've been reading about the influence of mind from

a distance, from pairs of friends with psychic connectivity in the former

USSR in psi-experiments to much more recent imagery communication using art

work and " receivers " in REM sleep. I want to experience what a structured

group healing of positive intention is like. I feel very alone were I am. I

am so turned off to religion I don't feel good going to " them " ; I feel like

everytime I go out to work that I'm in a negative environment. I don't like

the city very much, and many of the people are in a bad state, which is

felt. I would like to engage in some kind of mental life with others with

the goal of positivity and healing, a sort of mental support group. For

anyone interested, or anyone skeptical who wishes for some quality book

suggestions about Mind in a Matter-Only culture please feel free to contact

me in private e-mail. I want support. I want to do something positive with

myself, but in a controlled manner, to learn. No psychic police or evil

people please!

Re: Something to think about

> Axel ,

> I have been having problems with my computer server the last two days. It

was down most of the time. I just received this reply from you.

>

> >I think many other people have been put off for the same reasons. The

time is nearing, don't need a religious text to know that, just a mind that

can grasp that we're pushing our planet beyond the balance. Self-fulfilling

prophecies.... does it take a prophecy to create a

> manifestation? Are we creating the apocalypse with our minds, in a manner

that precedes the actual phenomena that contribute to the approaching

disaster(s)? Study of the mind would suggest this is also true. Belief

systems can have powerful effectsHow right you are<

>

> No comment here...have to think about this.......

>

> >But be careful when you say the Bible is never wrong.

>

> I wrote before I thought that statement through. There are 2 different

versions of creation. So I will take that back.

>

> >The real Bible is from the language and people in which it was originally

written, Hebrew. I have a direct translation of the Hebrew Bible into

English, and I see specific instructions to kill without compassion all

neighbors who worship new gods, who stray from the Hebrew religion. Are you

Jewish? If not, I could kill you, and it would be " God's will " according to

my heritage.<

>

> You are forgetting about the examples of Ruth and Rahab. Ruth was the

Grandmother of King and Yashua is a direct descendant of His.Yet Ruth

was a Moabite and Rahab a prostitute- I love to read the Bible. I can relate

to he was always up or " Cast " down it seems. (like a sheep)

> As far as most (or all) Christians all I would have to do is tell them I

have a " tail " and they would run! I Know they are *Listening* What can they

do to me besides kill me ?

>

> I'm not a Jew. I have negative blood remember ? My Dad's closest friend

is. His name is Sheila. He actually has 7 names. I named my son after one of

those names. My husband and I are close friends with other Jews.

> I have been mistaken for a Jew many times. My Dad too I guess due to our

olive skin.

> My Dad was a believer. He would read his Bible everyday and told me to not

listen to others only the Spirit which would guide me in all truth. He also

has a different of looking into things. For example in the New Testament the

Jews were either Pharisee's or Sadducees. My Dad said they were called this

because the Pharisee's believed in eternal life " Far I See " ....and the

Sadducees didn't so they were " Sad U See " .

>

>

> One of my favorite verses is Genesis 27:46 when was upset because

Easu married Hittite women. She said to Isaac if (later called Israel)

marries a Hittite my life won't be worth living. I agree. Hittites were

probably unbearable people. I know a woman who Hit's all the time and she is

enough to not make one want to live. Not meant to be funny!

>

>

> Joyce

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/27/2002 12:19:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

a.hultman@... writes:

<< Yeah, we have to be careful, very careful when discussing such personal

things... even in this mailing list. People can easily become.... zealous!

Good intentions or no... people get riled up about this. >>

Truer words were never spoken. It is rare when you can find an impartial and

free discussion of these things. Having been raised in a household of free

communication, it was an education to go out into the world where some people

still want to burn other people at the stake for believing or not believing

certain things. Being raised a protestant who became an agnostic and then

spiritual again and having both Catholic and Jewish cousins (all of us going

through confirmation and Barmitzfa (sp) at the same time) we had some lively

discussions believe me. I tend to resist anything that curtails my ability

to explore and learn because of some taboo.

Max

[Guest guest]

December 12, 2012, I think. And say something else causes cancer.

I think this refers to the end of the 28,000 year cycle that is tied to the

wobble in the rotation of the earth. In 2012 (about) the old cycle ends and

a new cycle begins. They'll probably raise taxes.

Max

[Guest guest]

To the women.

I read an article that states there is increased

breast cancer in women who wear underwire bras. They

suggested making a little slit and pulling them out.

If you want something there, substitute it with

plastic boning you can buy at the fabric shop.

Anyway, that wasn't what you were talking about, but

one of my freinds is going through breast ca right now

and I wanted to share this. I pulled all of mine out.

OKC

--- " , S. " <S@...>

wrote:

> December 12, 2012, I think. And say something else

> causes cancer.

>

>

>

> I think this refers to the end of the 28,000 year

> cycle that is tied to the

> wobble in the rotation of the earth. In 2012

> (about) the old cycle ends and

>

> a new cycle begins. They'll probably raise taxes.

> Max

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Not wanting to put the scare on people but blood and bonemeal is an

allowed fertiliser for organic crops, only I am not sure whether it can

only come from organic sources. And as there have been no recorded

incidences of BSE in organic cattle I guess it should be ok ?

Steve - Cheltenham, UK

Maddviking@... wrote:

>I agree with you Axel and I am at a disadvantage since I haven't read your

>post on this--I'm guessing it was probably posted to the list preMax. If I'm

>understanding you right, you're saying don't eat meat from animals that have

>eaten feed contaminated with bonemeal or other " filler " from other animals,

>in other words herbivores eating carnivores or other herbivores. This I

>heartily agree with. The meat at my market advertises that it is grass feed

>angus beef. My comments were simply about the processing. Poison, however

>safely processed, is still poison.

>

[Guest guest]

How cool. We can stand and wait for probably nothing. Just like the

millenium scare.

December 21 2012 :-) What a special birthday I will have :-)

Steve - Cheltenham, UK

Maddviking@... wrote:

><< the Mayan and Incan

> calenders are very specific, the next and final age is the end of 2011 or

> 2012 >>

>I think this refers to the end of the 28,000 year cycle that is tied to the

>wobble in the rotation of the earth. In 2012 (about) the old cycle ends

and

>a new cycle begins. They'll probably raise taxes.

>Max

>

[Guest guest]

December 21 2012 :-) What a special birthday I will have :-)

Steve - Cheltenham, UK

Maddviking@... wrote:

>In a message dated 2/26/2002 1:30:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,

>a.hultman@... writes:

>

><< the Mayan and Incan

> calenders are very specific, the next and final age is the end of 2011 or

> 2012 >>

>I think this refers to the end of the 28,000 year cycle that is tied to the

>wobble in the rotation of the earth. In 2012 (about) the old cycle ends and

>a new cycle begins. They'll probably raise taxes.

>Max

>

[Guest guest]

> No psychic police or evil people please!

Axel ,

Please define this. I have no idea what psychic police means and I do not want

to get involved with Wicca etc. Experimenting as you defined it sounds

interesting and safe.

Joyce

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody! Been gone for awhile, my father passed away in January, so

I've been in Arizona for quite awhile. And no access to organic foods, boo

hoo! I realize how spoiled I am living in CA where I have such easy access

to organic everything! Anyway, just wanted to say hi, I'll be leaving again

in 2 weeks, traveling the Southwest. Hey Joyce, check out the Lamsa Bible!

Love,

Lilla

[Guest guest]

Lee,

This already happens to me when I listen to familiar music. Even though

music sounds distorted with my left ear (with or without a HA), I can still

" hear " the music perfectly in my mind as I did before losing my hearing.

Something to think about

If you wondered about auditory memory after not hearing for soooooooooo

long,,,,, something " snapped " on me last night.

I was watching " Lassie Comes Home " , a movie that I haven't seen in 35 or 40

years! As much I don't remember the movie, I enjoyed it. When Lassie was

walking on a city sidewalk, I somehow remembered that she would be jumping

or fell

off a building or something high, sure enough she did!

If I can remember that one scene, from a movie that I haven't seen in about

4

decades, there is no reason why anyone would forget how to hear. For those

who is now in process of being evaluate for CI, auditory memories, like

vision

from that long ago is POSSIBLE!

Lee

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

That's what I do also. You're right there,

That's why since I reached severe to profound hearing loss, I no longer

listen to music I am not familiar with. I only listen to music that I have

listened to when I am still moderate to severe.

Regards/

Jerome

Re: Something to think about

Lee,

This already happens to me when I listen to familiar music. Even though

music sounds distorted with my left ear (with or without a HA), I can still

" hear " the music perfectly in my mind as I did before losing my hearing.

Something to think about

If you wondered about auditory memory after not hearing for soooooooooo

long,,,,, something " snapped " on me last night.

I was watching " Lassie Comes Home " , a movie that I haven't seen in 35 or 40

years! As much I don't remember the movie, I enjoyed it. When Lassie was

walking on a city sidewalk, I somehow remembered that she would be jumping

or fell

off a building or something high, sure enough she did!

If I can remember that one scene, from a movie that I haven't seen in about

4

decades, there is no reason why anyone would forget how to hear. For those

who is now in process of being evaluate for CI, auditory memories, like

vision

from that long ago is POSSIBLE!

Lee

[Guest guest]

Maybe big brother is watching us? But, just us, and big brother is

really the ap with no connections to an lp, and when he or she

sees one of us for the first time or by chance, they decide to snap

a memory of that encounter? Still, to me, this seems more

voyeuristic than curious.

I wonder if this little guy ever knew what or who 'capped'-tured him?

I know this is old, but I only found it the other day. And maybe some

of you have seen it already, 'tho I tend to doubt it as only been

viewed 347 times. So, let's see if we can make that over 1,000?

http://flickr.com/photos/23342304@N00/204287045/

I tell ya, I know you don't have to tell me, but I do find the

strangest things on us at times!

~grady

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth = I really don't fit into the two categories exactly. My Harrington broke only a year after they put it in (1980). For some reason he didn't fuse me. I think that's why my rod broke. With that said...I had the double contoured rods with screws & two cages at L3/L4 and L4/L5 done in 2007. So I'm only lumbar fused, but my rods go all the way up to between my shoulder blades. Even with the contoured rods, they weren't contoured enough. Talk about BAM!!! I went from water skiing, snow skiing & riding my Harley to barely being able to walk & having a forward pitch of +/-35 degrees. I wanted to chime in because this is STILL happening. I don't know if it would have happened years earlier if they hadn't removed the broken rod or not. I guess I should consider myself lucky

that it broke. I know that many members suffered for years until their diagnosis. I can't help but feel DISGUSTED with the fact that the medical community has known about this condition for YEARS... & people like me are STILL getting BUTCHERED! I'm sorry for the rant. I've lived my whole life like there was no tomorrow...ya know...like the song "LIve like you were dying"... & now I don't really have a life. Again..."sorry" your innocent post got caught up in my pity party. Did I mention that I was only lumbar fusaed?LOL.................Kathy