Guest guest Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I agree with everything you said. Thanks. DJ On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:12am, Gillen, nne wrote: > It was very interesting reading all your comments! > > As an (almost) pre-lingual (deaf at 2) with profound loss, reared in a > wholly mainstream environment - I never communicated with another > Deaf/Hard of Hearing person till I was 17! I saw signing Deaf several > times, yes, but was told I was not 'like them'. Ironic since I DID > considered my lack of hearing a major 'handicap' - I felt inferior at > ALL times... I had to lip-read and talk - like it or not. I communicate > very well one-to-one, totally lost within groups, I can use the phone > with certain people ok too. My speech is good... too good sometimes > that people refuse to believe I am Deaf at all! > > Despite having good speech etc - the children I went to mainstream > school with knew I was different, some didn't want to know me at all... > but we all know children will always be cruel. I was reading about Deaf > children in mainstream schools recently - both CIs and non-CIs. Their > stories were so similar. Singled out by their classmates for having a > hearing aid or CI. One report told how a young lad learning how to swim > with his class - naturally as he couldn't wear the CI - unable to > communicate with him, he was asked to sit out the lessons effecting his > self esteem. Some of them never met another CI or Deaf person, actually > 'hate' themselves for being 'weaker' than their hearing counterparts - > the fact they can feel their different is numbing. But I cried inside > reading those stories - like re-living the past over again. > > I have several good friends now - a mixture of hearing, CI implantees > (both successful and not-so-successful), non-deaf Deaf and culturally > Deaf... I no longer regard myself as 'handicapped' - learning ISL was > one of the best things I've done... but it took me 7 years. A child > would have learned faster. My only regret is I didn't have it in > school. Jarom - there is no CART or Typewell in Ireland for people like > me. We depend on the goodwill of our classmates, parents and peers to > help us, I was not independent at all. You have no idea how lucky you > were! > > I agree that Deaf who shun other Deaf for getting CIs are not 'friends' > or even being fair... You might as well go the whole hog and reject > those who wear HAs too! We have several CIs in the Irish Deaf > community. Should I choose a CI - I will still be regarded Deaf by most > of the Irish cultural Deaf community. Just re-read your e-mail Jarom, > your bitterness towards your Deaf birth-mother is compelling... which > makes me wonder if this has effected your relationship with the > cultural Deaf community? None of my business really but I have just > seen 'Sound & Fury' and I was a tad shocked at the extremity of the > American Deaf community. The Irish Deaf community are not as extreme - > we do have some 'radicals' but in general the Irish Deaf are probably > more tolerant of CIs than their American counterparts - the only aspect > we disagree on is the 'professionals' advising parents of Deaf children > to stay away from the Deaf community and rubbishing Sign Language as > necessary for lang! > uage acquisition - this is NOTHING to do with CIs - this attitude has > been around years! Effecting non-CI deaf children placed in mainstream > schools - my mother was told to keep me away from other Deaf. > > But I learned one definite thing from doing my own research: having a > CI will not guarantee you full inclusion or acceptance in society... > nor will it guarantee you perfect sound. Having CI at a young age does > guarantee you'll have a better life either... Do not think that by > having the CI and no sign language your life would have been > different... everyone's experience is different. > > Getting a CI is a personal decision; a parents prerogative; a matter of > choice etc. - years ago doctors didn't approve of giving CIs > to pre-lingual Deaf - they were of the belief that these people didn't > have the required knowledge needed to 'translate' and understand sound. > Only late deafened and children were approved for CIs. Now we know this > is not the case... Deaf at all stages can succeed with CIs but each > case is different. There are people who succeed from day one and others > who take years to progress... and sadly, there are still those who CI > have 'failed' them. (Note: I put fail in 'comments' as everyone has > different aspects as to why the CI failed them) > > I have to agree with DJ - these companies do sprout a lot of literature > about the miracle's of their CIs and how much one can achieve with a CI > (I have the lot at home very upbeat fascinating stuff!) Then you are > handed a disclaimer to sign before the surgery saying this CI will not > guarantee you speech understanding or even hearing 'sounds' the > opposite of what they have just told you! Some disclaimers also has to > remark if the implant carries a 'x% failure rate' as per health > regulations in some European countries... I have been told of people > signing disclaimers showing '25% failure rate' . I have yet to find out > if this is true. > > I have met some Deaf with 'failed' CIs, some are bitter, the latter are > prob more anti-CIs than the culturally Deaf themselves. What would > happen if your 'Deaf child' was one of the failures? Would you still > refuse them access to ASL? I would be a tad sceptical of the Med-EL, > Clarion and Bionics booklets 'success rates' statistics... to be honest > I would listen to real people and believe independent neutral research > over these companies own research. History of research data tells us > that companies who do own research over the years have a record of > hiding bad data to protect themselves. I'm not pointing only at the CI > giants here, I am talking about research in general. I would be equally > sceptical of a Deaf research into CI 'failure rates' as they could be > bias on several grounds! > > I do dispute your theory on sign language acquisition Jarom - I have > read research showing 'CI and speech only' children had average reading > ages below their hearing peers. While their 'signing then speech CI' > counterparts exhibit ABOVE par reading levels than their hearing > classmates. There was US research done using HEARING babies taught ASL > before speech also exhibiting ABOVE par reading levels than hearing > with no ASL.... European research done on hearing children of signing > Deaf parents also showed similar results. Bilingual children have been > proven to excel more than their monolingual counterparts... and as a > mother myself - I taught my hearing son to sign before he could talk. > His school teacher was astounded at his reading skills and his grasp of > the spoken Irish language, actually asked we we spoke native Irish > ourselves or if we has been home schooling him! My own experience of > not having access to ISL till my 20's still rankles, > > Most Deaf who choose to 'stay' as they are, don't just do it out of > distrust, fear or ignorance - but from having no motivation or desire > to hear sounds. They have no understanding of sounds or their > importance - they are quite happy in themselves. We have to respect > them for that. But we expect them to respect those who make the choice > for CI and work at it. > > I will not judge people for having CIs - that's personal. But I do > question those who disregard the importance of language acquisition in > infancy. > > Sorry to ramble on... > > nne > > Deaf is not a handicap for , DJ, and other > > DJ and - > > Well, deafness may not be viewed as handicap by many Deaf people. I > view > it as a unnecessary challenge for me. But I have learned many valuable > things from being deaf but it's time for me to enter the world of pure > sounds. I do know sign language and am proficient signer because I have > some good teachers :-). > > Some of Deaf people will reject the person with implant because they > are > ignorant about whole cochlear implant... Yes, implant don't make you > 100% > hearing person but it facilitates our life by providing pure sounds > directly to the nerve. It will make a person VERY hard of hearing. I > was > rejected by many deaf people for having a implant but do that affect > me? > NO! I was prepared for that to happen and that has helped me see who > are > my real friends. My parents know how to sign but they are not very > skilled. Now, they don't have to rely on sign language to communicate > with me anymore because I am able to hear them perfectly and be able to > communicate back to them without any worry of making some mistakes > while > I speak. It have enriched my life with freedom from unnecessary stress > of > being deaf and with rich sounds which has opened up my world. I am > proud > to have so many deaf friends and more than 3/4 of them have cochlear > implants. I know few people who decided that cochlear implant is not > their thing... That's their decision and I respect that because it is > their choice to remain in silent world. > > Well, about children with implant... Many professionals recommend the > parents to not use sign language when they are young because it require > a > lot of work for one deaf child to learn how to speak the language.. Let > alone two languages at the same time! The child can always learn how to > sign later in their life but they can't learn how to speak later > because > it is vital for them to learn how to speak while their brain are like > sponge when they are young. Also the world don't use sign language as > primary method to communicate. I have witnessed many deaf people having > hard time communicate with the hearing people who don't sign. For > instance, my second cousin Cade who got his implant before his first > birthday in September. His mother was in emotional turmoil about how to > communicate with her only son. Now, she can communciate with him like a > normal hearing child without running for sign language book to look up > the sign. Many parents made wise decision by implanting their child as > soon as they can. I kind of wish that I was implanted when I was infant > but that was not possible because of my profound hearing loss. > > DJ- I strongly disagree with you about the cochlear implant companies > misleading the people by guaranteeing that they will be able to hear > and > understand speech. If you look in the brochure, you will see the > statistic that show that most of people can understand the speech.... > Also they show that small percentage of people don't understand > speech... > That's fact because I have witnessed that myself through many of my > friends who have CI. Most of them can understand speech fine while > other > have hard time but they are making an progress slowly. > > " The most successful CI recipients are post lingual or latened deaf > persons who have always lived in the hearing world and have lost or are > loosing the ability to do that and have a strong desire to return to > that world. " That is BS. I am pre-lingual deaf and I was born deaf > thank > to that so called my birth mother who is deaf. I can use phone and > listen > with my ear without lipreading wonderfully. There are so MANY > pre-lingual > deaf that are doing wonderfully with their implants. I do have strong > desire to REMAIN in the hearing world and I am able to do that without > having to give my real world for deaf world where I will be unhappy. > When > I have a deaf child, they will get cochlear implant as their birthday > present because I want them to be able to live in the real world > without > any help.... > > THAT IS MY OPINIONS! IF I OFFEND ANYBODY THEN I AM SORRY. > > Jarom > > ________________________________________________________________ > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 I've come across a few references to 'Sound & Fury'- what is it?? A video, movie, ... who puts it out?? - Alison " Gillen, nne " <julianne.gillen@...> wrote: .... I have just seen 'Sound & Fury' and I was a tad shocked at the extremity of the American Deaf community... --------------------------------- Greetings Send your love online with Greetings - FREE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Oh boy, I don't know if we want to get into that issue here. It is one I am very passionate about. My reply to nne is I am shocked and insulted by the extremness and idocentric arrogrance of the hearing world! Alison to answer your question, Sound and Fury is a documentary about the grandparents of a deaf infant wanting their son to have their grandchild implanted wit a CI. The parents of the child are culturally Deaf and use ASL as their natural language and are living happy fulfilling life and are fueding with their parents who want their grand child implanted. Issue is hearing people only see deafness as a medical problem that must be fixed at all costs. Whereas the Deaf view themselves as part of a minority lingustic culture with rich history, language, traditions and beliefs's etc. I would be happy to rip to shreds every argument the grandparents present in this video and give analogies to show the faults in their arguments. BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THIS LIST. I am (culturally) Deaf myself, I would encourage you to read my posts over the last several weeks as we did discuss many of the issues indirectly adressed in this video. Www.netflix.com does have it available for rent also I think the captioned media program has it also.. Free go to www.cfv.org to learn about CMP and signup and request a directory of their titles. This is a wonderful source of information on deafness. Everything is open captioned so it will work on any TV. Since the making of that video I believe attitudes have changed a bit on both sides of the debate but it will continue to be a hot topic for some time to come. By the way I am participating in a documentary on the whole CI experience that my Doctor is developing. I don't anticipate it being completed for quite a while but I'll promise to let the list know when it does get completed DJ Wooldridge N24 1/19/04 (yes, I chose to get a CI) my story will be in the Documentary. I would be happy to continue this thread but I'll respect the list owner's wishes and to focus on CI support for recipients and potential CI candidates. If however you are a hearing parent of a deaf child wanting info about choices for your child or consdering a CI. Please contact me and I will be happy to share. Djwool@... AOL IM username " djwdeaf " BA- Deaf Studies 1993 MA- Deaf Ed. In progress Teacher of the Deaf On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 2:40am, Alison C wrote: > I've come across a few references to 'Sound & Fury'- what is it?? A > video, movie, ... who puts it out?? > - Alison > > " Gillen, nne " <julianne.gillen@...> wrote: > ... I have just seen 'Sound & Fury' and I was a tad shocked at the > extremity of the American Deaf community... > > --------------------------------- > Greetings > Send your love online with Greetings - FREE! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 well we found it at www.cfv.org this is a free captioned video web site for anyone who is Deaf or HOH or even a family member of Deaf or Hard of Hearing. it is fantastic! i just signed up because i was looking for captioned video on sports for Chauncey last year. they have all topics. you pick the video you want, order it, they mail it to you with a free shipping return lable! they are fast too! alot of time i order, and the date they have it availible is maybe a few weeks, but i usually get them within 1 week! we have ordered maybe 6 already! i found sound and fury using cohclear as my keyword search. they have about 5 different titles on cochlear implant. it is very easy and completely free. good luck Alison C <ailisaun@...> wrote: I've come across a few references to 'Sound & Fury'- what is it?? A video, movie, ... who puts it out?? - Alison " Gillen, nne " <julianne.gillen@...> wrote: .... I have just seen 'Sound & Fury' and I was a tad shocked at the extremity of the American Deaf community... --------------------------------- Greetings Send your love online with Greetings - FREE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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