for Brad

[Guest guest]

,

<<Interesting post. If every area of the country had good Total

Communication places for children to go, then your points would be well

founded. >>

Are you suggesting that every area of the country has high-quality, well

implemented AVT and CI programs? I believe there are some (Hopkins,

Beebe, CID, maybe e) but from parent listservs, I know that

appropriate AVT is NOT available in " every area of the country. "

I'd be very interested in the source of the following statement:

<< However, in most areas it seems the so called " TC " program ends up

being ASL,>>

I worked as a Sign Language Interpreter for 8 years and have been

" plugged in " to listservs of parents of d/Deaf and Hard of Hearing kids

for another 10 and I am aware of only a handful of programs that really

offer ASL. If you analyze the sign used in most TC programs, it is PSE

or Signed English, not ASL.

<< and the children graduate with a very poor knowledge of correct

written and spoken English. >>

This is true of the TC programs I mention above. Having visited many of

them, I believe the fault is not a lack of speech, but rather the fact

that the signing level of the teachers (typically hearing) is so poor.

In programs that use true ASL and have teachers who sign ASL at adult

levels, the kids (like at The Learning Center) are graduating from HS

using the same curriculum as hearing kids, passing the same standardized

tests as the hearing kids and going college. That sound like equal

footing.

The point of my post was that for the kids who are not auditory, a

better option exists than poorly implemented TC programs. If a

researcher wants to demonstrate the value of CI's in terms of education

and employability, I'm just asking them to compare the CI cohort (the

" best " auditory group) to a cohort that has the best possible

non-auditory program. This is BiBi, not TC.

<< Just a matter of fact that SPOKEN ENGLISH is the usual way of

communicating in this country. >>

I think that greatly depends on your situation. In corporate America,

written e-communication is much more prevalent (e-mail, IM). Hearing

kids in middle and HS are now using their cell phones to text message

back and forth rather than talk.

<< But to compete with the majority, you'd better know the same langague

as the majority. >>

I agree. I never said d/Deaf/HoH kids shouldn't be fluent in English.

I'm just saying that not every kid CAN use it aurally/orally. For those

who cannot, at least look at the reality of programs that have a history

of producing equivalent results rather than tainting research by

handicapping the comparison group.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

[Guest guest]

brad

i agree with you... thanks for taking time to educate everyone and bring a

different view. not everyone willl benefit from a ci either, we do have to

think about those deaf kids and adults who for one reason or another, cannot

get a ci. those kids deserve just as high quality education with asl, etc.

just because the teachers can " sign " doesnt automatically translate to high

quality teaching. there are many factors that go into a high quality education.

I am ci candidate and i think we should do our best to make all options , ci,

asl etc work as best they can so we all have choices.

thanks, Jb

[Guest guest]

Brad,

As usual, you are looking at something else while someone is making a

point. I'm saying...individuals who voice opinion on CI, friends who

snub friends who have received a CI, the aided/deaf person who makes

comments that a CI is not worth what they say it is if they call

someone by name behind their back who wears a CI and they don't

answer. Alice just posted and her post is exactly what I'm talking

about. She got judged for having a CI by a deaf lady. Why was Alice

judged by this woman? Why did this woman do that to Alice? Was it

because she was afraid Alice could hear and therefore put the deaf

lady in a disadvantaged spot herself? Maybe she should have admired

Alice's courage to, " got for it. " Getting a CI is not like going to

the Dr to have a plug removed with tweezers out of your ear in order

to be able to hear. It involves determination, strength in your own

decision, surgery, and rehab and on and on.

You posted my question but didn't answer it, Brad. I asked why the

deaf voice an opinion on if someone gets a CI or not? You didn't

answer my question. As far as those of us here at the forum with a

CI and say, ''go for it''..''you'll love it'' and on and on. What

else would you expect from a CI recepient who is hearing with their

implant?

You posted:

I agree that SOME Deaf people are inappropriately anti-CI. This has

been exaggerated in the past and while it still exists, it's getting

better.

Let's hope so. If they choose not to have a CI themselves, I'm all

for it, in the meantime, I don't see where this individual should

have any imput on what I WANT. Don't care what organization he

belongs to, NAD, Deaf Culture and what not. For the Deaf to run down

people who have a CI is just ridiculous in my opinion. It's my

decision, why does he/she have a voice in it or even an opinion?

To add to this post, I had a huge CI moment.

I attended my nephews graduation a couple of weeks ago. After

listening to the saluatorian and valedictorian speak, I thought, oh,

boy, I'm in big trouble as it was extremely hard to understand

anything either of them said. Once the principal and other speakers

took the podium, I was hearing almost every word they said. I heard

presentation of awards and schlorships, presentation of seniors and

heard most all of the names called as each received their diplomas.

This by 3 different speakers, two males and one female. Last year I

attended graduation of another relative, I got nothing out of it, I

couldn't understand one word that was being said as anyone talked

from the podium. Last year I was wearing an aid. After graduation

was over, I asked my husband, brother and sis in law, " could you

understand the salutatorian and valedictorian? " The all answered,

barely, hardly, only a few words of it.

So Brad, Yep...I'm gonna tell folks to go for it. I'm gonna tell em

to not wait. Why should anyone who wants to hear miss out on

something wonderful? Also, look at BunE..back to school and 4.0

average...Sharon, listening to music to her hearts content,

Lee..going back to become a paralegal. I could go on and on here,

but I think you can see that a CI has given these people an

opportunity they never had before. Go For It.

Dixie

[Guest guest]

Dixie,'

Congratulations on your CI moment. I agree that no one should berate or

harass or be otherwise rude to people. I am also one who believes that

actions speak louder than words. If someone with a hearing loss sees a

CI recipient doing well, then they will make the approach and ask

questions. I respect the enthusiasm that many people have for their CI

and that they want to share the news. I only was expressing that I

perceive somewhat of a double standard.

That is my opinion and it's pretty clear that I'm in the minority here.

As Alice correctly points out, it's from my viewpoint of a person who

a) is hearing has 20 years of experience with a part of the Deaf

community c) is a parent of a kids who is Deaf but not a CI candidate

and d) is an audiologists who is trying to come to a level of

understanding about CI's beyond individual, non-replicable results so

that I can more responsibly decide if I can be directly involved with

providing CI services or if I should refer them.

I am not anti-CI in general, I am just veraciously pro individual choice

without coercion, intended or not.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

for Brad

Brad,

As usual, you are looking at something else while someone is making a

point. I'm saying...individuals who voice opinion on CI, friends who

snub friends who have received a CI, the aided/deaf person who makes

comments that a CI is not worth what they say it is if they call someone

by name behind their back who wears a CI and they don't answer. Alice

just posted and her post is exactly what I'm talking about. She got

judged for having a CI by a deaf lady. Why was Alice judged by this

woman? Why did this woman do that to Alice? Was it because she was

afraid Alice could hear and therefore put the deaf lady in a

disadvantaged spot herself? Maybe she should have admired Alice's

courage to, " got for it. " Getting a CI is not like going to the Dr to

have a plug removed with tweezers out of your ear in order

to be able to hear. It involves determination, strength in your own

decision, surgery, and rehab and on and on.

You posted my question but didn't answer it, Brad. I asked why the deaf

voice an opinion on if someone gets a CI or not? You didn't answer my

question. As far as those of us here at the forum with a CI and say,

''go for it''..''you'll love it'' and on and on. What else would you

expect from a CI recepient who is hearing with their implant?

You posted:

I agree that SOME Deaf people are inappropriately anti-CI. This has been

exaggerated in the past and while it still exists, it's getting better.

Let's hope so. If they choose not to have a CI themselves, I'm all for

it, in the meantime, I don't see where this individual should have any

imput on what I WANT. Don't care what organization he belongs to, NAD,

Deaf Culture and what not. For the Deaf to run down people who have a

CI is just ridiculous in my opinion. It's my decision, why does he/she

have a voice in it or even an opinion?

To add to this post, I had a huge CI moment.

I attended my nephews graduation a couple of weeks ago. After listening

to the saluatorian and valedictorian speak, I thought, oh, boy, I'm in

big trouble as it was extremely hard to understand anything either of

them said. Once the principal and other speakers took the podium, I was

hearing almost every word they said. I heard presentation of awards and

schlorships, presentation of seniors and heard most all of the names

called as each received their diplomas.

This by 3 different speakers, two males and one female. Last year I

attended graduation of another relative, I got nothing out of it, I

couldn't understand one word that was being said as anyone talked from

the podium. Last year I was wearing an aid. After graduation was over,

I asked my husband, brother and sis in law, " could you understand the

salutatorian and valedictorian? " The all answered, barely, hardly, only

a few words of it.

So Brad, Yep...I'm gonna tell folks to go for it. I'm gonna tell em to

not wait. Why should anyone who wants to hear miss out on something

wonderful? Also, look at BunE..back to school and 4.0 average...Sharon,

listening to music to her hearts content, Lee..going back to become a

paralegal. I could go on and on here, but I think you can see that a CI

has given these people an opportunity they never had before. Go For It.

Dixie