Re: differences between ace and speak

April 8, 2003

Kathy,

If I read this right, his speed on the N22 is 250Hz

and his speed on the N24 is 900Hz so he does have two

different speeds which may be confusing him. I'm not

the audiologist so I can't say for sure (Cris - where

are you) but perhaps he would do better with a 720 ACE

or at least one SPEAK map on the N24. I don't know if

you have talked to his audiologist about this

possibility, but it might be worth a try.

Alice

--- kathysk2001 <kathysk2001@...> wrote:

> HiDora and Alice

> I really dont understand the difference between

> speak and ace, but I

> have a copy of both s maps here in front of

> me. On his N22

> it says SPEAK Frequency Table Number 7,(120Hz -

> 8658Hz) 120Hz is the

> lower freq on channel number 22 and 8658Hz is the

> upper freq on

> channel number 3. It also says CG 250Hz.

> On his N24 it says ACE Stimulation Rate Total 7200Hz

> Per channel 900

> Hz

> None of this means very much to me at all so if

> anyone is able to

> simply explain the differences I would appreciate

> it. Thanks

> Kathy

>

April 8, 2003

Hi Kathy,

Speak and ACE are somwhat similar in that they use a certain number

of electrodes at any give time to find the most important aspects of

speech to deliver to the auditory nerve. Speak does better delivering

pitch information whereas ACE delivers pitch and timing. I can't

explain it any better because I don't understand these physical spects

of sound.

<<SPEAK Frequency Table Number 7,(120Hz - 8658Hz) 120Hz is the lower

freq on channel number 22 and 8658Hz is the upper freq on channel number

3. It also says CG 250Hz. >>

Speak is the slowest strategy which is why you hear people get such

fabulous battery life from using Speak. On Speak, the frequencies that

are being delivered range from 120 Hz to 8658 Hz. If you look on the

back of a package with headphones, you will see that the headphones

usually deliver from 20Hz to 20,000 Hz. While the normal human

ear/brain can pick up a lot more sound than the processor is delivering,

our processors deliver the most important Hz for speech.

<<On his N24 it says ACE Stimulation Rate Total 7200Hz Per channel 900

Hz >>

While Speak works at a fixed speed (I think), ACE can be programmed at

different speeds and also different maxima (the # of electrodes working

at any given momment). It would seem that there are 8 maxima each

working at a speed of 900 Hz for a total stim rate of 7200Hz.

Nuked 9/28/00

Hooked 10/26/00

I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

April 8, 2003

Hi Alice

One of the reasons we went for the 2nd implant was so could

have access to the technology that was not available with his 1st

implant. I think (but will ask) that they wont want to put a speak

program on his new implant as they want him to learn how to hear with

it using Ace. That is just my guess though. One thing has

asked me is, can they put the program that he uses all the time on P2

so he has to push the switch all the way up and know that it is in

the right position. He doesnt change between the two as we havent

learnt yet what we are supposed to do, he also hasnt used whiper

yet. I am not 100% sure of how/when to use it and doesnt

like me to keep playing with the controls.

On another note, this morning when he got up I gave him the N24 to

put on first, then, while I was changing the batteries in his N22

sent him off to have breakfast. He didnt ask for the N22 so I just

carried as usual without him having it and he didnt realise he hadnt

put it on till he went to have a wash. He seemed to be hearing a bit

of what we were saying to him though he was lip reading so I might

make this a habit then he will get an extra half hour or so of just

using the one processor.

Kathy

April 9, 2003

Hi Dora,

I am glad to read you went on to another clinic when you became dissatisfied

with your situation. It is important to trust ourselves and know this is an

option!

Love,

April 9, 2003

Kathy

The whole topic of pitch and timing has to do with how the software

analyzes different parts of the sound waves that come in. It has

nothing to do with the order that we hear things of even the speed that

we hear (i.e. slower/faster). It's one of those things for which you

need a PhD in sound physics! LOL Dora can tell the difference in sound

the same way that different mappings give her a difference in sound.

The same way that someone can take an equilizer and change the way the

sound comes in, so can we change the way the software delivers the

sound. The equilizer analogy is not an adequate one in terms of

physics, but to our ears I think it suffices.

Nuked 9/28/00

Hooked 10/26/00

I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

April 9, 2003

Kathy,

I should have added this to my previous post....

As far as the differences between ACE and Speak to the " hearer " , you can

ask all of us who have tried it and we can tell you our subjective

experiences. For me, Speak was soft and comfortable and didn't have all

the sharp edges of the high pitches. I was hooked up with Speak so I

didn't have full comprehension at that point anyway. And then one day I

was gven ACE (without knowing it) and I was like WOW! this is the one!

Background came in better and things seemed balanced, clearer and

sharper and more in focus. I would like to try Speak again somtime just

for the fun of it. As my hearing with the CI progressed, the speeds of

my maps went from 1200 to 900 to 720 Hz. So now I'm curious as to how I

would do after all this time with Speak again.

Nuked 9/28/00

Hooked 10/26/00

I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

April 9, 2003

Thanks for trying to explain this to me . It all gets very

confusing. I didnt even get all the way thru high school. Left at

15, so dont think I will ever get a PhD in anything though I could

write a book on all that I have learnt in the last 9 yrs since

was born!

Kathy

>

> Kathy

> The whole topic of pitch and timing has to do with how the software

> analyzes different parts of the sound waves that come in. It has

> nothing to do with the order that we hear things of even the speed

that

> we hear (i.e. slower/faster). It's one of those things for which

you

> need a PhD in sound physics

April 9, 2003

Hi and Kathy

This is long.....

Yep,Dora has adjusted to using both speak and Ace at the same time and she is

doing marvelously well!!LOL!!But it was along time coming!!I remember well how

great surround sound sounded at hookup..I described it as Alice did..a feeling

of fullness..for the first time in a very long time I was hearing on both

sides.I was using speak on my N24C.My Audiologist had told me that she would

take my N22 away from me for 2 months while I learned to use my N24C.I tried all

strategies with all the different speeds..I maybe could have got along with SIS

at a slower speed but Ace was the best..tests showed the same..I tried Speak

again and it had all but faded away.All I remember hearing was a bunch of

indistinguisable sounds.

Because of dificulty getting an appointment those two months turned into 3 and

then 4 months.I was beginning to have tinnitus very bad in my N22 ear and other

problems and had several visits with my Dr.I finally just called my Audiologist

and said I wanted my N22.By then the sound of my N22 was simply terrible and i

could not use it..still I could not get an Appt.One day I became very angry and

I just took my N24C off and used my N22..I did this everyday for a few hours and

gradually the sound improved but in no way was it like it had been on the last

day that I had worn it.

After 6 months I got an appointment..had my n22 mapped but still sounded

bad..got a refurbished processor and it still sounded bad.After several more

mappings it did improve somewhat so that it benefitted my N24C.But I could take

it or leave it!!I could not use it alone.Then just before Christmas my eye tooth

,on the side of my N22 became very painful and the sound of my n22 again went

bad.I was mapped and the electrode that was causing my tooth to hurt was turned

off.A week later all the teeth on that side began to hurt ..another electrode

was turned off and my comfort level decreased to where I had to have my Sen. set

at 5 in order to hear anything.And then the sound was very bad!!After having

used the telephone with ease before my n24C was implanted I could no longer do

so.

As much as i hated to leave my clinic I had to be honest with myself about my

needs and I had faith that there might be help for me elsewhere so I made an

appt at another CI clinic.I had a 4hr. appt. which began with an integrity

test..this enabled the audiologist to map me in a way that gave me 16

electrodes.When he swept those electrodes it sounded like the keys of a

piano..my eyes are filling with tears as I write this..But when he put my map

into my processor it didnot sound so good!!I was hearing all the S sounds and

all the words were connected by this zipper like sound.But when i put my N24C on

the sounds meshed and i was hearing better bilaterally.

I returned a few weeks later..was tweaked ..and had sentence and word

tests...Bilaterally proved to be the best.I have had more tweaking but still the

zipper was there.Then only last Friday I was having lunch with a frien.The

batteries of my N24C went dead so i changed them.Hey..i thought..I can

understand my friend very well with my n22!!The words were no longer

connected..i guess the zipper had broken!!LOL!!So when i got home I took off my

N24C and listened to everything..it was so very much clearer.On Sunday I tried

the telephone and yup..I heard again!!My husband disconnected my N24C adaptor

and now I can use my N22 in the kitchen and I have my Tel coil adaptable phone

for my N24C in our den!!I have worn my N22 alone for several hours at a time and

after a few minutes I forget which processor I have on....BUT....together is

still the best of all!!

Love dora

Re: Re: differences between ace and speak