Re: questions about an MFE

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/23/2006 9:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, lyndhurstmom3@... writes:

Hi---I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week and I think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never was asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a violation and I'm not sure what to do about it. I told the teacher that I did not want any psychological testing done because of problems that we had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the results were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE and I have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low, hoping that I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what do you guys think???Thanks, Laurie

While it may give you some leverage, they also may be currently doing the testing that you do not want them to do! So after it's done, it's done. How do you guess they are doing an MFE this time? If you have reasons that are sure, I would write a letter to dir. of sped services and state that an MFE is being conducted without your input and concent. This documents the problem so you can use it later but also halts the process as they hopefully rush to include you in the process. They really are obligated to sit down with you and go over what testing they plan to do with your input. My school will skip that part as well and I have to insert myself with a letter telling them they will not do testing until I see a list of all testing they plan to do. Then I can decide if those tests are adequate or if they should add more.

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/23/2006 9:50:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, SMD@... writes:

My gut reaction is you are correct and they need written permission so I'd let them do it as it will not harm your child and see what they come up with. If you like it, let it stand, if you don't use it as leverage to get an outside evaluator to do it, someone you feel more comfortable working with. If an evaluation is not your major concern that by all means try and use it to get something of more importance to you.

But do remember that if you do not agree with the testing that they did, you can always request an outside evaluation (IEE) at school/public expense. You don't need leverage to do that either.

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

[Guest guest]

My gut reaction is any procedural errors/violations to have a strong

value for use (leverage) have to pass/fail the FAPE litmus test.

Will or did your child get denied FAPE through their actions. This

does not mean that who you're dealing with is savvy enough to know

that their actions or inactions are not a big deal (and I am not

making a judgement on your particular situation).

My gut reaction is you are correct and they need written

permission so I'd let them do it as it will not harm your child and

see what they come up with. If you like it, let it stand, if you

don't use it as leverage to get an outside evaluator to do it,

someone you feel more comfortable working with. If an evaluation is

not your major concern that by all means try and use it to get

something of more importance to you.

>

> Hi---

> I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week

and I

> think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never

was

> asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a

violation

> and I'm not sure what to do about it. I told the teacher that I

did

> not want any psychological testing done because of problems that

we

> had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the

results

> were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE

and I

> have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low, hoping

that

> I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what do

you

> guys think???

> Thanks,

> Laurie

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/23/2006 3:34:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, lyndhurstmom3@... writes:

So, now what? I really don't trust them anyways to doa good eval on my son and what benefit would there beanyways? I am very happy with his program, but I amupset about the amount of special needs kids in theregular classroom and would like that changed. Iwould also like him to have his own aide (notshared)so that he can go in and out of the regular edroom when it's beneficial and not when there's someoneavailable. Thanks for listening!!!Laurie

Has it been 3 years since his last MFE? If so, it would be terribly....terrible if your child has not had anything new to evaluate in all of three years time.??? In that case I would be a little upset that their program is so lame.

If you think that's not the case, then you should tell them you would like to sit down and go over the evaluations being done or not done before you sign permission. I think it is really awful that they send home basically a blank form for signature. They do the same here and I let them know it is a terrible practice and I require more "handling" time than the average parent. I want to know a list of what testing will be done exactly.

In light of the fact that you are against some of the testing, it would seem a good idea to get with this school psych and get a list of testing to be done and then sign permission.

I'm pretty sure that she can go through your child's records without your permission. You should defninitely get a copy of everything in your child's file so you can keep track of what is happening. Never know what you will find in there.

In order to justify more help, you might want to request testing in more areas than just OT. That way you can show - look, he hasn't advanced at all in speech (or whatever you are testing.) That can help bolster your request for more services or the aide. In addition, you may not want IQ testing done but there are other tests besides that that are often done - achievement testing can give you a good idea about where he/she is academically. This might be good information to have. And if you don't use it now, it might be good information to have three years down the road to compare and see how well the program is going.

Roxanna ô¿ôDon't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

[Guest guest]

Our school did a new MFE recently for our son and I DID sign a permission slip for this testing. They wanted to do psych testing too (IQ), and I did not want it done for many reasons. When you do finally have your meeting, bring this up and DO NOT sign your IEP even if you have looked over the draft they sent you. This is a little game I still play even though I write his IEP according to the State Standards from the ODE website. DebbieLaurie Kowalski <lyndhurstmom3@...> wrote: Hi---I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week and I think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never was asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a violation and I'm not sure what to

do about it. I told the teacher that I did not want any psychological testing done because of problems that we had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the results were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE and I have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low, hoping that I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what do you guys think???Thanks, Laurie

Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

>

>

> Has it been 3 years since his last MFE? If so, it would be

> terribly....terrible if your child has not had anything new to

evaluate in all of three years

> time.??? In that case I would be a little upset that their

program is so

> lame.

>

Yes--the three years is up. After reading your post, I thought that

it wouldn't hurt to reval the speech/language because when it was

last done, he was really below in levels. I know that he has made

tremendous progress, so why not show it? He is pretty much at grade

level in reading and math, but I should find out where exactly

compared to peers. He was supposed to take the first grade

standardized test with accommodations---I haven't heard back on

these. The problem is that in my district, it seems, that the

better a child does that is less reason for interventions. I cannot

stand that psychologist and the farther away from my kids she is the

better. I was told with my other son that she is the only one that

works with that grade level. I opted out of the psych testing for

him to.

> If you think that's not the case, then you should tell them you

would like

> to sit down and go over the evaluations being done or not done

before you sign

> permission. I think it is really awful that they send home

basically a

> blank form for signature. They do the same here and I let them

know it is a

> terrible practice and I require more " handling " time than the

average parent. I

> want to know a list of what testing will be done exactly.

>

I think that I will send the permission slips back with a sticky

note saying that I have changed my mind. What irks me so much, is

that they try to talk parents into what they've already decided is

best (for them)it happens over and over and they claim that they

give parents a choice!!!! It has to stop and that's why I am making

a big deal about this. I hear it all too often in our district that

the parents have been told that suchansuch program is best for their

child without even giving them a choice of options. I'm sure it

happens elsewhere, but I have had it!!

> In light of the fact that you are against some of the testing, it

would seem

> a good idea to get with this school psych and get a list of

testing to be

> done and then sign permission.

>

> I'm pretty sure that she can go through your child's records

without your

> permission. You should defninitely get a copy of everything in

your child's

> file so you can keep track of what is happening. Never know what

you will find

> in there.

>

But can she tell the team (minus the parents) to begin record review

without even asking me?? That does not seem right. I realize that

they have access to his records, but to already assume that I will

just say ok to the record review? She obviously spoke to the OT

before talking to me.

> In order to justify more help, you might want to request testing

in more

> areas than just OT. That way you can show - look, he hasn't

advanced at all in

> speech (or whatever you are testing.) That can help bolster your

request for

> more services or the aide. In addition, you may not want IQ

testing done

> but there are other tests besides that that are often done -

achievement

> testing can give you a good idea about where he/she is

academically. This might be

> good information to have. And if you don't use it now, it might

be good

> information to have three years down the road to compare and see

how well the

> program is going.

>

>

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

the thing is that he has made tremendous progress, but I want that

to continue and I would like things in place to make it easier for

him, how am I going to justify that if we prove that he has made

progress? It's like a double-edged sword. thanks for all the

advice.

Laurie

>

[Guest guest]

My two cents...does everyone know what a School Psychologist is? It

is a very different thing from a Clinical psychologist, or other

types of psychologists who are licensed to diagnose from the DSM.

School Psychologists are highly trained, but do have their

limitations. They are edumetric testers more than psychometric

testers. They are trained in administering tests and using the

guides provided to 'grade' them. They do take a counseling course,

but counseling is different than psycho-therapy or other things that

are associated with what most perceive as a psychologist. The type

of psychologist that most perceive are trained in behaviorism,

humanism, cognitivism, or psychotherapy (maybe a combination there

of, e.g. a cognitive behaviorist). School psychologists are not

trainied in any of those. They get a Masters in education. While

this should not be seen as taking away from there advanced

education; but they are not the people who listen to what you say

and respond, " Hmmmm, interesting, why do you say that " and read into

who you are in some way.

Why do I bring this up? You are the resident expert on your

child and no one is so highly educated on the other side of the

table at a MFE (Multi-factored evaluation) or and IEP (Individual

Education Plan/Program). Never be intimidated and don't accept

other's words as gospel.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Has it been 3 years since his last MFE? If so, it would be

> > terribly....terrible if your child has not had anything new to

> evaluate in all of three years

> > time.??? In that case I would be a little upset that their

> program is so

> > lame.

> >

> Yes--the three years is up. After reading your post, I thought

that

> it wouldn't hurt to reval the speech/language because when it was

> last done, he was really below in levels. I know that he has made

> tremendous progress, so why not show it? He is pretty much at

grade

> level in reading and math, but I should find out where exactly

> compared to peers. He was supposed to take the first grade

> standardized test with accommodations---I haven't heard back on

> these. The problem is that in my district, it seems, that the

> better a child does that is less reason for interventions. I

cannot

> stand that psychologist and the farther away from my kids she is

the

> better. I was told with my other son that she is the only one

that

> works with that grade level. I opted out of the psych testing for

> him to.

>

>

> > If you think that's not the case, then you should tell them you

> would like

> > to sit down and go over the evaluations being done or not done

> before you sign

> > permission. I think it is really awful that they send home

> basically a

> > blank form for signature. They do the same here and I let them

> know it is a

> > terrible practice and I require more " handling " time than the

> average parent. I

> > want to know a list of what testing will be done exactly.

> >

> I think that I will send the permission slips back with a sticky

> note saying that I have changed my mind. What irks me so much, is

> that they try to talk parents into what they've already decided is

> best (for them)it happens over and over and they claim that they

> give parents a choice!!!! It has to stop and that's why I am

making

> a big deal about this. I hear it all too often in our district

that

> the parents have been told that suchansuch program is best for

their

> child without even giving them a choice of options. I'm sure it

> happens elsewhere, but I have had it!!

>

> > In light of the fact that you are against some of the testing,

it

> would seem

> > a good idea to get with this school psych and get a list of

> testing to be

> > done and then sign permission.

> >

> > I'm pretty sure that she can go through your child's records

> without your

> > permission. You should defninitely get a copy of everything in

> your child's

> > file so you can keep track of what is happening. Never know

what

> you will find

> > in there.

> >

> But can she tell the team (minus the parents) to begin record

review

> without even asking me?? That does not seem right. I realize

that

> they have access to his records, but to already assume that I will

> just say ok to the record review? She obviously spoke to the OT

> before talking to me.

>

>

> > In order to justify more help, you might want to request testing

> in more

> > areas than just OT. That way you can show - look, he hasn't

> advanced at all in

> > speech (or whatever you are testing.) That can help bolster

your

> request for

> > more services or the aide. In addition, you may not want IQ

> testing done

> > but there are other tests besides that that are often done -

> achievement

> > testing can give you a good idea about where he/she is

> academically. This might be

> > good information to have. And if you don't use it now, it

might

> be good

> > information to have three years down the road to compare and

see

> how well the

> > program is going.

>

> >

> >

> > Roxanna ô¿ô

> > Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

> >

> the thing is that he has made tremendous progress, but I want that

> to continue and I would like things in place to make it easier for

> him, how am I going to justify that if we prove that he has made

> progress? It's like a double-edged sword. thanks for all the

> advice.

> Laurie

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/2006 11:48:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, angelabiehl@... writes:

Roxanna or anyone who has this answer as well please share.

Where do you get the names of the tests that are appr for our kids? I know of some of them but was unsure of what would be appr to ask for.

Here is one place you can find some testing information --> http://concordspedpac.org/TypesTests.html

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

[Guest guest]

In what context? Testing for autism, for the level/degree of

autism? Or are you talking about educational testing that

would/could or should be done during an MFE (Multi-factored

evaluation)?

> In a message dated 5/23/2006 9:39:19 AM Eastern Standard

Time, lyndhurstmom3@... writes:

> Hi---

> I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week

and I

> think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never

was

> asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a

violation

> and I'm not sure what to do about it. I told the teacher that I

did

> not want any psychological testing done because of problems that

we

> had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the

results

> were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE

and I

> have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low, hoping

that

> I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what do

you

> guys think???

> Thanks,

> Laurie

>

>

> While it may give you some leverage, they also may be currently

doing the testing that you do not want them to do! So after it's

done, it's done. How do you guess they are doing an MFE this time?

If you have reasons that are sure, I would write a letter to dir. of

sped services and state that an MFE is being conducted without your

input and concent. This documents the problem so you can use it

later but also halts the process as they hopefully rush to include

you in the process. They really are obligated to sit down with you

and go over what testing they plan to do with your input. My school

will skip that part as well and I have to insert myself with a

letter telling them they will not do testing until I see a list of

all testing they plan to do. Then I can decide if those tests are

adequate or if they should add more.

> Roxanna ô¿ô

> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

>

>

>

>

> *note:

> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

> ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> is a networking and support group

> of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry I should be more specific. I was wondering about what test could be done in the MFE. I asked for a FBA, and Auditory Processing Tests. (which they did) I was wondering if I am missing anything. Is there some type of test to gage his sensory issues. Just wondering Thanks smdscott141 <SMD@...> wrote: In what context? Testing for autism, for the level/degree of autism? Or are you talking about educational testing that would/could or should be done during an MFE (Multi-factored evaluation)?> In a message dated 5/23/2006 9:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, lyndhurstmom3@... writes:> Hi---> I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week and I > think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never was > asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a violation > and I'm not sure what to do about it. I told the teacher that I did > not want any psychological testing done because of problems that we > had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the results > were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE and I > have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low, hoping that

> I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what do you > guys think???> Thanks, > Laurie> > > While it may give you some leverage, they also may be currently doing the testing that you do not want them to do! So after it's done, it's done. How do you guess they are doing an MFE this time? If you have reasons that are sure, I would write a letter to dir. of sped services and state that an MFE is being conducted without your input and concent. This documents the problem so you can use it later but also halts the process as they hopefully rush to include you in the process. They really are obligated to sit down with you and go over what testing they plan to do with your input. My school will skip that part as well and I have to insert myself with a letter telling them they will not do testing until I see a

list of all testing they plan to do. Then I can decide if those tests are adequate or if they should add more. > Roxanna ô¿ô> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.> > > > > *note:> When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to include the s in groups. Here is the complete address: > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~> is a networking and support group> of "Parent to Parent for Autism".> Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html > > > >

[Guest guest]

I have access to someone who sits MFE's as one of the testers. I'll

get her professional opinion. I'll have to get back to you later.

As far as 'sensory' issues I don't know off the top of my head what

tests a school would provide strictly for 'sensory' but be careful.

Sensory can be used, abused and misunderstood. School staff worked

on some sensory techniques with my son, without any remarks in his

IEP (Individual Education Plan/Program). While you can always do

more than is in the IEP they created agressive behaviors using

pressing when there was no FBA (functional behavior assessment) to

tease out any need. There was no need, they had a circular

argument. He has autism so he has sensory issues and he has sensory

issues because he has autism. No real basis, peer-reviewed material

or science behind what they did or said. They also used a sensory

room to go to any time he showed he was upset. Guess what happened

then, he learned escape/avoidance. I haven't seen ANYONE in a

school environment educated, experienced or knowledgable that I

would trust them with anything sensory. If your child has sensory

issues that interfere with learning, etc., you should ask for an FBA

to tease out what the factors are and then make sure a proper

behavioral plan is put in place (that uses systematic

desensitization, etc.) Let me know if I'm on the right track with

what you need or put me back on it and hopefully I can...

> > In a message dated 5/23/2006 9:39:19 AM Eastern Standard

> Time, lyndhurstmom3@ writes:

> > Hi---

> > I have a question for you. My son's IEP is coming up next week

> and I

> > think that they are doing an MFE also----problem is that I never

> was

> > asked to sign any papers authorizing this. I know that is a

> violation

> > and I'm not sure what to do about it. I told the teacher that I

> did

> > not want any psychological testing done because of problems that

> we

> > had with the school psych on his last MFE (I did not think the

> results

> > were accurate), but the psychologist is responsible for this MFE

> and I

> > have not heard from her!! I have been kind of laying low,

hoping

> that

> > I can use it against them to get some things that I want, what

do

> you

> > guys think???

> > Thanks,

> > Laurie

> >

> >

> > While it may give you some leverage, they also may be

currently

> doing the testing that you do not want them to do! So after it's

> done, it's done. How do you guess they are doing an MFE this

time?

> If you have reasons that are sure, I would write a letter to dir.

of

> sped services and state that an MFE is being conducted without

your

> input and concent. This documents the problem so you can use it

> later but also halts the process as they hopefully rush to include

> you in the process. They really are obligated to sit down with

you

> and go over what testing they plan to do with your input. My

school

> will skip that part as well and I have to insert myself with a

> letter telling them they will not do testing until I see a list of

> all testing they plan to do. Then I can decide if those tests are

> adequate or if they should add more.

> > Roxanna ô¿ô

> > Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > *note:

> > When Adding to your email address book, don't forget to

> include the s in groups. Here is the complete address:

>

> > ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

> > is a networking and support group

> > of " Parent to Parent for Autism " .

> > Website: http://hometown.aol.com/parentschat/homepage.html

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/23/2006 10:50:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, lyndhurstmom3@... writes:

the thing is that he has made tremendous progress, but I want that to continue and I would like things in place to make it easier for him, how am I going to justify that if we prove that he has made progress? It's like a double-edged sword. thanks for all the advice.Laurie

I don't know specifically how to answer that because it depends on the child. And you are at the mercy of teachers and therapists as well. One thing is to utilize your option to get an independent evaluation at public expense if they produce an eval that says he doesn't need services but you feel he still does.

Another idea is to agree to reduce services in small increments pending positive results. So, you might agree to having the aide fade out, for example, but if he is struggling without the support, then she/he goes back in. Give it a 30 day timeline to reconvene and discuss it. You can agree to turn some of his ST hours into group ST so he can work on pragmatics and generalizing. And if it's determined he is not doing well, then go back to 1-1. You need to be on top of things in that case to determine if he needs the supports or not. And you would want documentation for this - how many times does he get lost in class? They must take data on whatever area of concern they are fading support for.

And of course, show that he does this well because he has supports in place- that is always something overlooked. Just like at my last IEP meeting about my 17 yo, we wanted to keep things the way they are now and we said, "hey, it's working this way. We don't want to change that." And they agreed. This is easier to remind them of the need if past experiences were bad without the supports. You know, you can remind them of the time he did this, that or the other - or all the poor work he did without help, etc. And just say, we don't want to change what is working. Put it in their lap to prove it needs to be changed with real data, not just their POV.

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/2006 12:46:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, SMD@... writes:

haven't seen ANYONE in a school environment educated, experienced or knowledgable that I would trust them with anything sensory. If your child has sensory issues that interfere with learning, etc., you should ask for an FBA to tease out what the factors are and then make sure a proper behavioral plan is put in place (that uses systematic desensitization, etc.) Let me know if I'm on the right track with what you need or put me back on it and hopefully I can...

ITA with you Shane. It's a subjective area at best. And then you really are at the mercy of the therapist you are given by the school. One experience we had was my older ds was in 4th and 5th and got help with sensory and fine motor. He had major issues, she wrote, and those issues were all fixed when he went to middle school (but that's another story, lol). Well here comes my 9 yo and he needs help with fine motor and sensory. The same therapist wrote an eval and it says he is just lazy and unmotivated but he could do it if he tried.

Then even if you get a "sensory diet" in place, again, it is more to do with the therapist who will be putting it together - are they good at resolving issues? Do they "get" autism? Can they find what your child needs? A lot of times, they set up a sensory room and that's their answer to solving the problem. And I think that is way dangerous because who wouldn't want to sit in a room and stim off the swing instead of sit in math and do computations? Hmmmm, let's think! lol.

Roxanna ô¿öAutism Happens