Re: My son is making me nuts!

[Guest guest]

We have been doing various therapies for our son (too many to list) and we have seen wonderful progress. Lately, though he has begun to exhibit some OCD behaviors. While I'm trying to treat the issues biomedically, in the meantime I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with the behaviors. He is making me crazy!! For example, he wants to draw stop signs. He figured out how to trace (very positive progress) then he cuts, and colors it. The problem is, if it doesn't look exactly as he invisions it in his head, he freaks out and starts from scratch. He refuses to let me help him and it will go on and on for hours if I let him. I eventually have to take away all the materials (paper, scissors, and markers) and hide them. He will meltdown but then he calms down. But he asks to make stop signs and I won't let him. Should I let him make them? I'm worried that he is being obsessed! It is great progress with tracing, cutting, and coloring, and it helps him to work on these skills, but it ends in frustration for us both. HELP!!!

----- Original Message -----

From:

Autism NE Parent Support

Sent: 4/22/2006 9:12:38 PM

Subject: [ ] Summer and Fall Services

Integrations Treatment Center in Mentor Ohio is currently accepting applications for the Fall 2006 Day Treatment Program for children with Autism Spectrum Disorders. There may also be a few openings available for the Summer 2006 program. You are invited to an informational meeting on Tuesday May 2nd at 7PM at Integrations Treatment Center (8671 Tyler Blvd., Unit F, Mentor, Ohio 44060) to receive details about the Day Treatment Program. The following programs may be available to your child:• PRESCHOOL GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• KINDERGARTEN GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• SCHOOL-AGE GROUPS (9:30-2:30 Monday through Friday*)*Program times are subject to change.Integrations Treatment Center is a provider for the Ohio Department of Education Autism Scholarship program.The program is high quality, intense, and individualized. Group sizes are small (3-6 children each). Treatment is based on the child’s needs and may include Speech Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Physical Therapy, Nutrition Therapy, Special Education, and Music Therapy. Staff members are extensively trained in Autism Spectrum Disorders. The program features a Typical Peer Program where typically developing children participate during social activity periods to improve social, language, and play skills. Treatment approaches include sensory integration programming, play based therapy, ABA programming, social skills training, academic instruction, and language based intervention.Please, call Yashila Crowell at (440) 578-1100 or email at yashilac@... with any questions, for directions to ITC, or to RSVP to the ITC Information Night. We look forward to meeting you!Sincerely,e Sweet, PTClinical Coordinator

[Guest guest]

- Perfectionism isn't unusual. Last year, my son started to exhibit perfectionist tendencies while doing his homework. What I ended up doing was modeling making mistakes. While writing up a grocery list, I'd misspell a word. Then I'd model self-talk: "Oh, I misspelled milk! <giggle> That's okay. I'll cross it out and re-write it. There! That's how you spell milk!" I'd do this when my son was in the same room as me, not necessarily paying attention to me, but when he was in a good mood. Most times, he would come closer to me to watch what I was doing. It took a while, but he eventually started saying the same words as I did, and he stopped his I-got-to-repeatly-erase-my-mistakes-until-it-is-perfect-and-sometimes-make-holes-in-the-paper-because-of-the-erasing behavior. He rarely is perfectionist this year. Your situation is a bit different. It's not like you can erase crayon marks. But I think it would help him if he could see you make mistakes and hear some positive self-talk. I don't know if he is old enough to comprehend that making mistakes is how we learn, and that everyone makes mistakes. I wish you the best, and I'm sure you can find a workable solution to this!! ----- Original Message ----- From: rmaher1969@... Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:59 PMSubject: RE: [ ] My son is making me nuts!We have been doing various therapies for our son (too many to list) and we have seen wonderful progress. Lately, though he has begun to exhibit some OCD behaviors. While I'm trying to treat the issues biomedically, in the meantime I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with the behaviors. He is making me crazy!! For example, he wants to draw stop signs. He figured out how to trace (very positive progress) then he cuts, and colors it. The problem is, if it doesn't look exactly as he invisions it in his head, he freaks out and starts from scratch. He refuses to let me help him and it will go on and on for hours if I let him. I eventually have to take away all the materials (paper, scissors, and markers) and hide them. He will meltdown but then he calms down. But he asks to make stop signs and I won't let him. Should I let him make them? I'm worried that he is being obsessed! It is great progress with tracing, cutting, and coloring, and it helps him to work on these skills, but it ends in frustration for us both. HELP!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Autism NE Parent SupportSent: 4/22/2006 9:12:38 PM Subject: [ ] Summer and Fall ServicesIntegrations Treatment Center in Mentor Ohio is currently accepting applications for the Fall 2006 Day Treatment Program for children with Autism Spectrum Disorders. There may also be a few openings available for the Summer 2006 program. You are invited to an informational meeting on Tuesday May 2nd at 7PM at Integrations Treatment Center (8671 Tyler Blvd., Unit F, Mentor, Ohio 44060) to receive details about the Day Treatment Program. The following programs may be available to your child:• PRESCHOOL GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• KINDERGARTEN GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• SCHOOL-AGE GROUPS (9:30-2:30 Monday through Friday*)*Program times are subject to change.Integrations Treatment Center is a provider for the Ohio Department of Education Autism Scholarship program.The program is high quality, intense, and individualized. Group sizes are small (3-6 children each). Treatment is based on the child’s needs and may include Speech Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Physical Therapy, Nutrition Therapy, Special Education, and Music Therapy. Staff members are extensively trained in Autism Spectrum Disorders. The program features a Typical Peer Program where typically developing children participate during social activity periods to improve social, language, and play skills. Treatment approaches include sensory integration programming, play based therapy, ABA programming, social skills training, academic instruction, and language based intervention.Please, call Yashila Crowell at (440) 578-1100 or email at yashilac@... with any questions, for directions to ITC, or to RSVP to the ITC Information Night. We look forward to meeting you!Sincerely,e Sweet, PTClinical Coordinator

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much. You give great advice. I think that might actually work for us, the positive self talk. I hurt for him when he gets upset because it shows that he knows the right way to do something, but for some reason he can't make the message go from his brain to the paper.

I have been working some reading sentences w/ him at home b/c we just had our MFE meeting and the results were devastating. I KNOW that he is capable of doing the things that he was tested for, but he doesn't test well (big surprise) When I ask him to write and answer to a question, he can't. But when I made a paper with words and under the words I drew an empty box. Then i gave him pictures to correspond with the words. He lined up the pictures with the correct words within three seconds. HE CAN READ! WHO KNEW?? I suppose I was niave to think that as he progressed the troubles would just go away. Many problems have gone, but have been replaced with new ones. I am so incredibly proud of him, so I don't want to sound like I'm complaining. It has been a v-e-r-y long week, I guess I'm just frustrated to see him frustrated and I want to make it better for him.

Thanks for listening to me and for the great advice, I will do exactly as you said, I'm sure it'll work for us.

----- Original Message -----

From: The Marotta Family

Sent: 4/23/2006 9:33:05 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me nuts!

- Perfectionism isn't unusual. Last year, my son started to exhibit perfectionist tendencies while doing his homework. What I ended up doing was modeling making mistakes. While writing up a grocery list, I'd misspell a word. Then I'd model self-talk: "Oh, I misspelled milk! <giggle> That's okay. I'll cross it out and re-write it. There! That's how you spell milk!" I'd do this when my son was in the same room as me, not necessarily paying attention to me, but when he was in a good mood. Most times, he would come closer to me to watch what I was doing. It took a while, but he eventually started saying the same words as I did, and he stopped his I-got-to-repeatly-erase-my-mistakes-until-it-is-perfect-and-sometimes-make-holes-in-the-paper-because-of-the-erasing behavior. He rarely is perfectionist this year.

Your situation is a bit different. It's not like you can erase crayon marks. But I think it would help him if he could see you make mistakes and hear some positive self-talk. I don't know if he is old enough to comprehend that making mistakes is how we learn, and that everyone makes mistakes. I wish you the best, and I'm sure you can find a workable solution to this!! Chris

----- Original Message -----

From: rmaher1969@...

Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 8:59 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] My son is making me nuts!

We have been doing various therapies for our son (too many to list) and we have seen wonderful progress. Lately, though he has begun to exhibit some OCD behaviors. While I'm trying to treat the issues biomedically, in the meantime I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with the behaviors. He is making me crazy!! For example, he wants to draw stop signs. He figured out how to trace (very positive progress) then he cuts, and colors it. The problem is, if it doesn't look exactly as he invisions it in his head, he freaks out and starts from scratch. He refuses to let me help him and it will go on and on for hours if I let him. I eventually have to take away all the materials (paper, scissors, and markers) and hide them. He will meltdown but then he calms down. But he asks to make stop signs and I won't let him. Should I let him make them? I'm worried that he is being obsessed! It is great progress with tracing, cutting, and coloring, and it helps him to work on these skills, but it ends in frustration for us both. HELP!!!

----- Original Message -----

From:

Autism NE Parent Support

Sent: 4/22/2006 9:12:38 PM

Subject: [ ] Summer and Fall Services

Integrations Treatment Center in Mentor Ohio is currently accepting applications for the Fall 2006 Day Treatment Program for children with Autism Spectrum Disorders. There may also be a few openings available for the Summer 2006 program. You are invited to an informational meeting on Tuesday May 2nd at 7PM at Integrations Treatment Center (8671 Tyler Blvd., Unit F, Mentor, Ohio 44060) to receive details about the Day Treatment Program. The following programs may be available to your child:• PRESCHOOL GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• KINDERGARTEN GROUP (9:30-2:30 Monday through Thursday*)• SCHOOL-AGE GROUPS (9:30-2:30 Monday through Friday*)*Program times are subject to change.Integrations Treatment Center is a provider for the Ohio Department of Education Autism Scholarship program.The program is high quality, intense, and individualized. Group sizes are small (3-6 children each). Treatment is based on the child’s needs and may include Speech Therapy, Occupational Therapy, Physical Therapy, Nutrition Therapy, Special Education, and Music Therapy. Staff members are extensively trained in Autism Spectrum Disorders. The program features a Typical Peer Program where typically developing children participate during social activity periods to improve social, language, and play skills. Treatment approaches include sensory integration programming, play based therapy, ABA programming, social skills training, academic instruction, and language based intervention.Please, call Yashila Crowell at (440) 578-1100 or email at yashilac@... with any questions, for directions to ITC, or to RSVP to the ITC Information Night. We look forward to meeting you!Sincerely,e Sweet, PTClinical Coordinator

[Guest guest]

Hi

Are there any symptoms of high copper to look for?

Boy, I've certainly not given enough vit. c to my son

according to your note. I have been giving 500

mg/day. He is 8 yo, so I should give 4,000? Thanks,

Laurie

--- Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>

wrote:

> Oysters are high in zinc, as are eggs. Zinc and

> Vitamin C (lots of it) will get rid of high copper,

> but the best is molybdenum at 1 gram per day.

>

> Use zinc citrate at his weight + 20 mgs per day and

> C at 500 mgs per year or for 5 year old, 2500 mgs.

> Spread all of these throughout the day for best

> results. Zinc can sometimes cause stomach

> irritation, so look out for that, if he is verbal.

> Give with food, start slowly and work up, same with

> the C.

>

> I know a lot of people who have used these

> supplements and brought down copper within a three

> month period.

>

> Good luck, Debbie,

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Debbie Ranallo

>

> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:40 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me nuts!

>

>

> Thank you. Luckily my son doesn't each much

> these. Are there foods that are high in zinc or do

> you give a supplement. My son's copper is high and

> his zinc as low, just as you mentioned earlier.

>

> Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>

> wrote:

> Hi Debbie, sure:

>

> Organ meats, beef liver or kidney

> Nuts

> Oats

> Avocados

> Mushrooms

> Radishes

> Beets

> Green Leafy vegetables

> Corn oil

> Margarine

> Garlic

> Oranges and raisins

> Many kinds of dried fruits

> Beans and lentils, especially dry ones

> Fast food hamburgers

> Vegetarian diets are high in copper

>

> Swimming pools-copper is added to prevent algae

> :-(

>

> Cooking in copper pans, and there are copper

> pipes in houses, some may " leech " a lot of copper.

>

> Probably more than you wanted to know :-)

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Debbie Ranallo

>

> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:42 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me

> nuts!

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Could you tell me what other things have

> copper in them besides chocolate?

>

> Debbie

>

> Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>

> wrote:

> 

> Oh no, you never get trouble when you are

> expecting it, lol, always comes out of the blue.

> Glad he did fine. Too bad about the chocolate, but

> it does rate high on parents assessment of things

> their kids react to.

>

> Most ASD kids are high copper, low zinc. Our

> little one is mid copper, mid zinc, so probably

> explains why she can eat the chocolate and not get

> cranky, me too :-), love the stuff.

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: rmaher1969@...

>

> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:05 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making

> me nuts!

>

>

> ,

>

> <<

> I will caution that chocolate (high

> copper) does make a lot of kid's behavior worse, and

> we have just passed Easter. Our little one does not

> react to it, but some do.>>

>

> I was not aware of that! I thought it

> could be all the sugar and caffeine in chocolate,

> didn't know about the copper. I avoid copper in all

> other things, now I know to avoid chocolate too. I

> will see if that makes a difference before I pursue

> any other things. He went back to school today

> after a long break and I expected trouble....he was

> fine! Go figure.

> Thanks to all for the advice.

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Cochran

>

> Sent: 4/24/2006 7:37:38 AM

> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making

> me nuts!

>

>

> All kids get worse in the spring, talk

> with any teacher of any class and they will tell you

> the closer it gets to the end of school, the worse

> the kids are.

>

> My NT daughter also suffered from

> perfectionism and I used Chris's suggestion of

> purposely making mistakes in front of her with good

> results.

>

> I will caution that chocolate (high

> copper) does make a lot of kid's behavior worse, and

> we have just passed Easter. Our little one does not

> react to it, but some do.

>

> Obsessive-compulsive behavior can be

> made better with inositol, but that causes mood

> problems here. We have episodic, single-episode ocd

> behavior every once in a while, don't know why, we

> don't have allergies anymore.

>

> Good luck, I know this behavior can be

> trying.

>

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Laurie Kowalski

>

> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:24 PM

> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is

> making me nuts!

>

>

> ,

> We go through a similar thing---my son

> is into us

> drawing pictures of certain things in

> books. He will

> occasionally draw them himself, but

> can get quite

> obsessive about having us or his

> teachers do it. I

> try to redirect as much as I can and

> at school he has

> to earn the drawing.

> Lately his all around behavior

> has been worse.

> It was suggested to me that due to the

> Spring allergy

> season, there are a lot of histamines

> in the air. Our

> asd kids already seem to have problems

> with these

> levels, so an increase in the air, in

> theory would

> cause problems. I just started him on

> an

> antihistamine to counteract this.

> I'll let you know

> what happens. Also, I looked this up

> on another group

> that I belong to (autism treatment) and

> it directed me

> to a Dr. who actually treats sensory

> integration and

> dyslexia with antihistimines and anti-

> sea sickness

> medications. It is really interesting

> stuff and

> really makes a lot of sense. I can

> get you the links

> if you want to read more.

>

=== message truncated ===

[Guest guest]

You can usually see high copper with a blood test or even a hair test. I heard someone say that people with high copper, even blonds, will have a reddish cast to their hair in the sun. I can't attest to the validity of that statement.

For high copper you need lots of C, but I would not supplement that much Vitamin C with a child that I did not know their copper levels. But, IMO, 500 mgs per day is not enough for our kids.

If you do decide to give more, increase slowly. We give 2,000 mgs a day, spread throughout the day, she does not have high copper, but does eat a lot of copper-containing foods. Ours is 5.3 and weighs 44 lbs.

Vitamin C is great for allergies and will help them detox some of the every day poisons our kids are exposed to such as fluoride and fertilizers, weed/insect killers that most schools insist on putting on their lawns this time of year.

A lot of people use buffered C as it is easier on the stomach, but we use a combination of buffered and regular C as ascorbic acid can help with digestion (adds stomach acid) and it doesn't bother her, per her report.

----- Original Message -----

From: Laurie Kowalski

Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 10:55 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me nuts!

Hi Are there any symptoms of high copper to look for? Boy, I've certainly not given enough vit. c to my sonaccording to your note. I have been giving 500mg/day. He is 8 yo, so I should give 4,000? Thanks, Laurie--- Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>wrote:> Oysters are high in zinc, as are eggs. Zinc and> Vitamin C (lots of it) will get rid of high copper,> but the best is molybdenum at 1 gram per day.> > Use zinc citrate at his weight + 20 mgs per day and> C at 500 mgs per year or for 5 year old, 2500 mgs. > Spread all of these throughout the day for best> results. Zinc can sometimes cause stomach> irritation, so look out for that, if he is verbal.> Give with food, start slowly and work up, same with> the C.> > I know a lot of people who have used these> supplements and brought down copper within a three> month period.> > Good luck, Debbie,> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debbie Ranallo > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:40 PM> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me nuts!> > > Thank you. Luckily my son doesn't each much> these. Are there foods that are high in zinc or do> you give a supplement. My son's copper is high and> his zinc as low, just as you mentioned earlier. > > Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>> wrote: > Hi Debbie, sure:> > Organ meats, beef liver or kidney> Nuts> Oats> Avocados> Mushrooms> Radishes> Beets> Green Leafy vegetables> Corn oil> Margarine> Garlic> Oranges and raisins> Many kinds of dried fruits> Beans and lentils, especially dry ones> Fast food hamburgers> Vegetarian diets are high in copper> > Swimming pools-copper is added to prevent algae> :-(> > Cooking in copper pans, and there are copper> pipes in houses, some may "leech" a lot of copper.> > Probably more than you wanted to know :-)> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Debbie Ranallo > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 7:42 PM> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making me> nuts!> > > Hi ,> > Could you tell me what other things have> copper in them besides chocolate?> > Debbie> > Cochran <Ladyshrink111@...>> wrote:>  > Oh no, you never get trouble when you are> expecting it, lol, always comes out of the blue.> Glad he did fine. Too bad about the chocolate, but> it does rate high on parents assessment of things> their kids react to.> > Most ASD kids are high copper, low zinc. Our> little one is mid copper, mid zinc, so probably> explains why she can eat the chocolate and not get> cranky, me too :-), love the stuff.> > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rmaher1969@... > > Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 1:05 PM> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making> me nuts!> > > ,> > << > I will caution that chocolate (high> copper) does make a lot of kid's behavior worse, and> we have just passed Easter. Our little one does not> react to it, but some do.>>> > I was not aware of that! I thought it> could be all the sugar and caffeine in chocolate,> didn't know about the copper. I avoid copper in all> other things, now I know to avoid chocolate too. I> will see if that makes a difference before I pursue> any other things. He went back to school today> after a long break and I expected trouble....he was> fine! Go figure. > Thanks to all for the advice.> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cochran > > Sent: 4/24/2006 7:37:38 AM > Subject: Re: [ ] My son is making> me nuts!> > > All kids get worse in the spring, talk> with any teacher of any class and they will tell you> the closer it gets to the end of school, the worse> the kids are.> > My NT daughter also suffered from> perfectionism and I used Chris's suggestion of> purposely making mistakes in front of her with good> results.> > I will caution that chocolate (high> copper) does make a lot of kid's behavior worse, and> we have just passed Easter. Our little one does not> react to it, but some do.> > Obsessive-compulsive behavior can be> made better with inositol, but that causes mood> problems here. We have episodic, single-episode ocd> behavior every once in a while, don't know why, we> don't have allergies anymore.> > Good luck, I know this behavior can be> trying.> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Laurie Kowalski > > Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 10:24 PM> Subject: Re: [ ] My son is> making me nuts!> > > ,> We go through a similar thing---my son> is into us> drawing pictures of certain things in> books. He will> occasionally draw them himself, but> can get quite> obsessive about having us or his> teachers do it. I> try to redirect as much as I can and> at school he has> to earn the drawing. > Lately his all around behavior> has been worse. > It was suggested to me that due to the> Spring allergy> season, there are a lot of histamines> in the air. Our> asd kids already seem to have problems> with these> levels, so an increase in the air, in> theory would> cause problems. I just started him on> an> antihistamine to counteract this. > I'll let you know> what happens. Also, I looked this up> on another group> that I belong to (autism treatment) and> it directed me> to a Dr. who actually treats sensory> integration and> dyslexia with antihistimines and anti-> sea sickness> medications. It is really interesting> stuff and> really makes a lot of sense. I can> get you the links> if you want to read more.> === message truncated ===