Re: The attack of autistic child's parents by the Bar Association

[Guest guest]

I am an attorney who has been on this list for a while. I have two

children on the spectrum. I want everyone to know that when I first

learned about this story, I was also outraged. You see, I am a

member of the Cleveland Bar Association. As an attorney, I took an

oath to uphold our laws and to serve my profession with integrity.

I have spoken with several other attorneys about his matter and all

had the same reaction (outrage). However, before I express my

concerns to the appropriate individuals/entities, I would like to get

all the facts. In my personal experience, the Plain Dealer has not

always reported all the facts or sometimes the facts are one-sided.

As such, I am attempting to get more information from the bar

association to see if the story (as reported) is true.

I would also like to say that I know Mr. Harvey personally. He is an

outstanding attorney and family man. I have the utmost respect for

him and know that he would not take any action which would jeopardize

his reputation as an attorney or as a member of his community.

I will be speaking with him regarding this matter; however, I do not

anticipate he will be able to give me any information other than what

is already a matter of public record for privacy reasons.

When I have sufficient facts, I will report back to the group.

Thank you.

Debbie Zielinski

>

> This was my husbands response to the Editor diected towards the Bar

Association. If anyone is as upset as we are please respond.

>

> I wanted to submit a response to a story that appeared in the

4/27/06 Plain Dealer, Metro Section. In addition, I wanted to share

this letter with Robins of WKYC TV, as she has interviewed my

family and my autistic child 2 years ago. I will be attaching this

communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich to encourage him to work

towards helping parents of autistic children.

>

>

> To the Editor:

>

> As a parent of an autistic child was sickened and enraged to read

about the Cleveland Bar Association's recent actions. The Bar has

dispatched attorney Harvey to attack the parents of an

autistic child by threatening them with a $10,000 fine. The Bar

alleges that the parents have engaged in an " unlawful practice of

law " because they could not act as advocate for their son.

>

> By definition, an advocate is as follows: †" Verb, transitive. To

speak, plead or argue in favor of. (Synonym: support.)

> 1. One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender; an

advocate of civil rights.

> 2. One that pleads in another’s behalf; an intercessor; advocates

for abused children and spouses.

> 3. A lawyer. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English

Language, Third Edition)

> The Federal Government allows for and encourages parents to act as

advocates for their " special needs " children. In fact, the Federal

Government acknowledges that parents of " special needs " children are

truly the expert on the child simply because of the knowledge that

parents have. There is no test to take to be an advocate, but I

challenge Mr. Harvey and the Cleveland Bar association to explain how

they would be a better advocate for any autistic child other than a

parent. The autistic child is obviously not able to speak on his/her

own behalf, so the responsibility must be deferred to a parent.

>

> Parents are a child's first teacher, responsible for their welfare,

their education and their overall development. They are not motivated

by the fees that their advocacy may generate. They have the child's

best interests at heart. Mr. Harvey was quoted as saying

that " special education laws are so complex that children need

experts, not untrained parents, looking out for their rights. "

>

> If anyone is untrained on the needs of special education children,

it is attorneys who do not have any special needs children. Mr.

Harvey, my wife and I combined spend approximately 88 hours a week

working with our son. We engage in therapy activities, research on

the law, Individualized Education Plan development, and developing

mainstream social skills. I know more about what my son needs, how he

learns, how he interacts with people, and what he does daily than you

could fit in your Blackberry. Good special education services are

expensive and often not covered by health insurance. Parents of

special needs children often have to fight for special services.

Advocacy is necessary. If that means that parents file documents in

court to achieve the best interests of their child, so be it. It

seems that the parents you are attacking are well ahead of the curve

by knowing and understanding what their child needs and are doing

what it takes to achieve that. You should be ashamed

> at calling these people untrained. You are salty that you missed a

fee. If you and the Cleveland Bar Association are so concerned about

the rights and needs of special needs children, why do you and other

attorneys intervene in a positive manner. You represent poor

criminals, but I have never heard of an attorney that will help an

autistic child get speech therapy without a retainer.

>

> Many parents of " special needs " children talk to each other to

discuss advocacy strategies. This is no more criminal that you asking

a colleague what type of oral argument would work best in front of a

particular judge. Yet, you want to take parents who have acquired

specific knowledge and share it with other parents and silence them,

all in the name of what is in the best interest of children.

>

> Parents of autistic children are already tired from the extra

support we must give our special needs children, the lack of health

care coverage for autism related services, the meetings with the

schools and all the extras that we have to fight for. We are too

tired to fight attorneys too, but we will if we have to. In the

meantime, I will be forwarding communication to Congressman Dennis

Kucinich requesting his help in helping parents combat roadblocks

encountered because of autism. Problems get solved by serious people

going after the problem, not a symptom.

>

> If you are truly that concerned about providing proper

representation for children, you can advocate pro-bono for my son at

his upcoming IEP meeting on May 11th. I won't hold my breath waiting

for a call.

>

> R. Biehl

> Parent of a 5 year old autistic son

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min.

>

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

That would be great. I for one would appreciate it, as I'm sure other members will. Keep us posted. Facts are good.

----- Original Message -----

From: ddzlaw

Sent: 4/28/2006 3:02:58 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: The attack of autistic child's parents by the Bar Association

I am an attorney who has been on this list for a while. I have two children on the spectrum. I want everyone to know that when I first learned about this story, I was also outraged. You see, I am a member of the Cleveland Bar Association. As an attorney, I took an oath to uphold our laws and to serve my profession with integrity.I have spoken with several other attorneys about his matter and all had the same reaction (outrage). However, before I express my concerns to the appropriate individuals/entities, I would like to get all the facts. In my personal experience, the Plain Dealer has not always reported all the facts or sometimes the facts are one-sided. As such, I am attempting to get more information from the bar association to see if the story (as reported) is true.I would also like to say that I know Mr. Harvey personally. He is an outstanding attorney and family man. I have the utmost respect for him and know that he would not take any action which would jeopardize his reputation as an attorney or as a member of his community.I will be speaking with him regarding this matter; however, I do not anticipate he will be able to give me any information other than what is already a matter of public record for privacy reasons.When I have sufficient facts, I will report back to the group.Thank you.Debbie Zielinski>> This was my husbands response to the Editor diected towards the Bar Association. If anyone is as upset as we are please respond.> > I wanted to submit a response to a story that appeared in the 4/27/06 Plain Dealer, Metro Section. In addition, I wanted to share this letter with Robins of WKYC TV, as she has interviewed my family and my autistic child 2 years ago. I will be attaching this communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich to encourage him to work towards helping parents of autistic children.> > > To the Editor:> > As a parent of an autistic child was sickened and enraged to read about the Cleveland Bar Association's recent actions. The Bar has dispatched attorney Harvey to attack the parents of an autistic child by threatening them with a $10,000 fine. The Bar alleges that the parents have engaged in an "unlawful practice of law" because they could not act as advocate for their son. > > By definition, an advocate is as follows: â€" Verb, transitive. To speak, plead or argue in favor of. (Synonym: support.) > 1. One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender; an advocate of civil rights.> 2. One that pleads in another’s behalf; an intercessor; advocates for abused children and spouses.> 3. A lawyer. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition)> The Federal Government allows for and encourages parents to act as advocates for their "special needs" children. In fact, the Federal Government acknowledges that parents of "special needs" children are truly the expert on the child simply because of the knowledge that parents have. There is no test to take to be an advocate, but I challenge Mr. Harvey and the Cleveland Bar association to explain how they would be a better advocate for any autistic child other than a parent. The autistic child is obviously not able to speak on his/her own behalf, so the responsibility must be deferred to a parent.> > Parents are a child's first teacher, responsible for their welfare, their education and their overall development. They are not motivated by the fees that their advocacy may generate. They have the child's best interests at heart. Mr. Harvey was quoted as saying that "special education laws are so complex that children need experts, not untrained parents, looking out for their rights." > > If anyone is untrained on the needs of special education children, it is attorneys who do not have any special needs children. Mr. Harvey, my wife and I combined spend approximately 88 hours a week working with our son. We engage in therapy activities, research on the law, Individualized Education Plan development, and developing mainstream social skills. I know more about what my son needs, how he learns, how he interacts with people, and what he does daily than you could fit in your Blackberry. Good special education services are expensive and often not covered by health insurance. Parents of special needs children often have to fight for special services. Advocacy is necessary. If that means that parents file documents in court to achieve the best interests of their child, so be it. It seems that the parents you are attacking are well ahead of the curve by knowing and understanding what their child needs and are doing what it takes to achieve that. You should be ashamed> at calling these people untrained. You are salty that you missed a fee. If you and the Cleveland Bar Association are so concerned about the rights and needs of special needs children, why do you and other attorneys intervene in a positive manner. You represent poor criminals, but I have never heard of an attorney that will help an autistic child get speech therapy without a retainer. > > Many parents of "special needs" children talk to each other to discuss advocacy strategies. This is no more criminal that you asking a colleague what type of oral argument would work best in front of a particular judge. Yet, you want to take parents who have acquired specific knowledge and share it with other parents and silence them, all in the name of what is in the best interest of children.> > Parents of autistic children are already tired from the extra support we must give our special needs children, the lack of health care coverage for autism related services, the meetings with the schools and all the extras that we have to fight for. We are too tired to fight attorneys too, but we will if we have to. In the meantime, I will be forwarding communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich requesting his help in helping parents combat roadblocks encountered because of autism. Problems get solved by serious people going after the problem, not a symptom. > > If you are truly that concerned about providing proper representation for children, you can advocate pro-bono for my son at his upcoming IEP meeting on May 11th. I won't hold my breath waiting for a call.> > R. Biehl> Parent of a 5 year old autistic son> > > ---------------------------------> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min.>

[Guest guest]

EXCELLANT! Biehl <angelabiehl@...> wrote: This was my husbands response to the Editor diected towards the Bar Association. If anyone is as upset as we are please respond. I wanted to submit a response to a story that appeared in the 4/27/06 Plain Dealer, Metro Section. In addition, I wanted to share this letter with Robins of WKYC TV, as she has interviewed my family and my autistic child 2 years ago. I will be attaching this communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich to encourage him to work towards helping parents of autistic children.To the Editor:As a parent of an autistic child was sickened and enraged to read about the Cleveland Bar Association's recent

actions. The Bar has dispatched attorney Harvey to attack the parents of an autistic child by threatening them with a $10,000 fine. The Bar alleges that the parents have engaged in an "unlawful practice of law" because they could not act as advocate for their son. By definition, an advocate is as follows: – Verb, transitive. To speak, plead or argue in favor of. (Synonym: support.) 1. One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender; an advocate of civil rights.2. One that pleads in another’s behalf; an intercessor; advocates for abused children and spouses.3. A lawyer. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition)The Federal Government allows for and encourages parents to act as advocates for their "special needs" children. In fact, the Federal Government acknowledges that parents of "special needs" children are truly the expert on the child simply because of the knowledge that parents have. There is no test to take to be an advocate, but I challenge Mr. Harvey and the Cleveland Bar association to explain how they would be a better advocate for any autistic child other than a parent. The autistic child is obviously not able to speak on his/her own behalf, so the responsibility must be deferred to a parent.Parents are a child's first teacher, responsible for their welfare, their education and their overall development. They are not motivated by the fees that their advocacy may generate. They have the child's best interests at heart. Mr.

Harvey was quoted as saying that "special education laws are so complex that children need experts, not untrained parents, looking out for their rights." If anyone is untrained on the needs of special education children, it is attorneys who do not have any special needs children. Mr. Harvey, my wife and I combined spend approximately 88 hours a week working with our son. We engage in therapy activities, research on the law, Individualized Education Plan development, and developing mainstream social skills. I know more about what my son needs, how he learns, how he interacts with people, and what he does daily than you could fit in your Blackberry. Good special education services are expensive and often not covered by health insurance. Parents of special needs children often have to fight for special services. Advocacy is necessary. If that means that parents file documents in court to achieve the best interests of their child, so

be it. It seems that the parents you are attacking are well ahead of the curve by knowing and understanding what their child needs and are doing what it takes to achieve that. You should be ashamed at calling these people untrained. You are salty that you missed a fee. If you and the Cleveland Bar Association are so concerned about the rights and needs of special needs children, why do you and other attorneys intervene in a positive manner. You represent poor criminals, but I have never heard of an attorney that will help an autistic child get speech therapy without a retainer. Many parents of "special needs" children talk to each other to discuss advocacy strategies. This is no more criminal that you asking a colleague what type of oral argument would work best in front of a particular judge. Yet, you want to take parents who have acquired specific knowledge and share it with other parents and silence them, all in the name of

what is in the best interest of children.Parents of autistic children are already tired from the extra support we must give our special needs children, the lack of health care coverage for autism related services, the meetings with the schools and all the extras that we have to fight for. We are too tired to fight attorneys too, but we will if we have to. In the meantime, I will be forwarding communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich requesting his help in helping parents combat roadblocks encountered because of autism. Problems get solved by serious people going after the problem, not a symptom. If you are truly that concerned about providing proper representation for children, you can advocate pro-bono for my son at his upcoming IEP meeting on May 11th. I won't hold my breath waiting for a call. R. BiehlParent of a 5 year old autistic son Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Becky Mother to , 15, Austism, Epilepsy, Cerebal Palsy, Severe MR Everybody has barriers and obstacles. If you look at them as containing fences that don't allow you to advance, then you're going to be a failure. If you look at them as hurdles that strengthen you each time you go over one, then you're going to be a success. Carson Surgeon

Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Debbie! I'm sure newspapers in general look for the best angle that will get people to buy their paper. But it is hard to think of a different perspective. Chris(Tina)----- Original Message ----- From: ddzlaw Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:02 PMSubject: [ ] Re: The attack of autistic child's parents by the Bar AssociationI am an attorney who has been on this list for a while. I have two children on the spectrum. I want everyone to know that when I first learned about this story, I was also outraged. You see, I am a member of the Cleveland Bar Association. As an attorney, I took an oath to uphold our laws and to serve my profession with integrity.I have spoken with several other attorneys about his matter and all had the same reaction (outrage). However, before I express my concerns to the appropriate individuals/entities, I would like to get all the facts. In my personal experience, the Plain Dealer has not always reported all the facts or sometimes the facts are one-sided. As such, I am attempting to get more information from the bar association to see if the story (as reported) is true.I would also like to say that I know Mr. Harvey personally He is an outstanding attorney and family man. I have the utmost respect for him and know that he would not take any action which would jeopardize his reputation as an attorney or as a member of his community.I will be speaking with him regarding this matter; however, I do not anticipate he will be able to give me any information other than what is already a matter of public record for privacy reasons.When I have sufficient facts, I will report back to the group.Thank you.Debbie Zielinski>> This was my husbands response to the Editor diected towards the Bar Association. If anyone is as upset as we are please respond.> > I wanted to submit a response to a story that appeared in the 4/27/06 Plain Dealer, Metro Section. In addition, I wanted to share this letter with Robins of WKYC TV, as she has interviewed my family and my autistic child 2 years ago. I will be attaching this communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich to encourage him to work towards helping parents of autistic children.> > > To the Editor:> > As a parent of an autistic child was sickened and enraged to read about the Cleveland Bar Association's recent actions. The Bar has dispatched attorney Harvey to attack the parents of an autistic child by threatening them with a $10,000 fine. The Bar alleges that the parents have engaged in an "unlawful practice of law" because they could not act as advocate for their son. > > By definition, an advocate is as follows: â?" Verb, transitive. To speak, plead or argue in favor of. (Synonym: support.) > 1. One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender; an advocate of civil rights.> 2. One that pleads in anotherâ?Ts behalf; an intercessor; advocates for abused children and spouses.> 3. A lawyer. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition)> The Federal Government allows for and encourages parents to act as advocates for their "special needs" children. In fact, the Federal Government acknowledges that parents of "special needs" children are truly the expert on the child simply because of the knowledge that parents have. There is no test to take to be an advocate, but I challenge Mr. Harvey and the Cleveland Bar association to explain how they would be a better advocate for any autistic child other than a parent. The autistic child is obviously not able to speak on his/her own behalf, so the responsibility must be deferred to a parent.> > Parents are a child's first teacher, responsible for their welfare, their education and their overall development. They are not motivated by the fees that their advocacy may generate. They have the child's best interests at heart. Mr. Harvey was quoted as saying that "special education laws are so complex that children need experts, not untrained parents, looking out for their rights." > > If anyone is untrained on the needs of special education children, it is attorneys who do not have any special needs children. Mr. Harvey, my wife and I combined spend approximately 88 hours a week working with our son. We engage in therapy activities, research on the law, Individualized Education Plan development, and developing mainstream social skills. I know more about what my son needs, how he learns, how he interacts with people, and what he does daily than you could fit in your Blackberry. Good special education services are expensive and often not covered by health insurance. Parents of special needs children often have to fight for special services. Advocacy is necessary. If that means that parents file documents in court to achieve the best interests of their child, so be it. It seems that the parents you are attacking are well ahead of the curve by knowing and understanding what their child needs and are doing what it takes to achieve that. You should be ashamed> at calling these people untrained. You are salty that you missed a fee. If you and the Cleveland Bar Association are so concerned about the rights and needs of special needs children, why do you and other attorneys intervene in a positive manner. You represent poor criminals, but I have never heard of an attorney that will help an autistic child get speech therapy without a retainer. > > Many parents of "special needs" children talk to each other to discuss advocacy strategies. This is no more criminal that you asking a colleague what type of oral argument would work best in front of a particular judge. Yet, you want to take parents who have acquired specific knowledge and share it with other parents and silence them, all in the name of what is in the best interest of children.> > Parents of autistic children are already tired from the extra support we must give our special needs children, the lack of health care coverage for autism related services, the meetings with the schools and all the extras that we have to fight for. We are too tired to fight attorneys too, but we will if we have to. In the meantime, I will be forwarding communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich requesting his help in helping parents combat roadblocks encountered because of autism. Problems get solved by serious people going after the problem, not a symptom. > > If you are truly that concerned about providing proper representation for children, you can advocate pro-bono for my son at his upcoming IEP meeting on May 11th. I won't hold my breath waiting for a call.> > R. Biehl> Parent of a 5 year old autistic son> > > ---------------------------------> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min.>

[Guest guest]

hmmmm...will MD's start going after the people who do CPR now?

[Guest guest]

Debbie, I appreciate the fact that you are looking into this matter. I am having a very hard time believing that an attorney would bring a lawsuit like this up to begin with. What have the parents done that warrants a lawsuit? Did they accomplish what they needed for the child? If so, then what is the purpose of the suit? Maybe there are facts that I am not aware of but I am unsure new facts would make me feel any better about it. I will try to keep an open mind on the matter till all the facts are revealed. The way I see it, this family was just trying to do what's right for there child without going broke to do it. Hurray for them. Any news about this would be nice can't always trust the media. Thank you. ddzlaw <zielinski@...> wrote: I am an attorney

who has been on this list for a while. I have two children on the spectrum. I want everyone to know that when I first learned about this story, I was also outraged. You see, I am a member of the Cleveland Bar Association. As an attorney, I took an oath to uphold our laws and to serve my profession with integrity.I have spoken with several other attorneys about his matter and all had the same reaction (outrage). However, before I express my concerns to the appropriate individuals/entities, I would like to get all the facts. In my personal experience, the Plain Dealer has not always reported all the facts or sometimes the facts are one-sided. As such, I am attempting to get more information from the bar association to see if the story (as reported) is true.I would also like to say that I know Mr. Harvey personally. He is an outstanding attorney and family man. I

have the utmost respect for him and know that he would not take any action which would jeopardize his reputation as an attorney or as a member of his community.I will be speaking with him regarding this matter; however, I do not anticipate he will be able to give me any information other than what is already a matter of public record for privacy reasons.When I have sufficient facts, I will report back to the group.Thank you.Debbie Zielinski>> This was my husbands response to the Editor diected towards the Bar Association. If anyone is as upset as we are please respond.> > I wanted to submit a response to a story that appeared in the 4/27/06 Plain Dealer, Metro Section. In addition, I wanted to share this letter with Robins of WKYC TV, as she has interviewed my

family and my autistic child 2 years ago. I will be attaching this communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich to encourage him to work towards helping parents of autistic children.> > > To the Editor:> > As a parent of an autistic child was sickened and enraged to read about the Cleveland Bar Association's recent actions. The Bar has dispatched attorney Harvey to attack the parents of an autistic child by threatening them with a $10,000 fine. The Bar alleges that the parents have engaged in an "unlawful practice of law" because they could not act as advocate for their son. > > By definition, an advocate is as follows: â€" Verb, transitive. To speak, plead or argue in favor of. (Synonym: support.) > 1. One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender; an advocate of civil rights.> 2. One that pleads in

another’s behalf; an intercessor; advocates for abused children and spouses.> 3. A lawyer. (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition)> The Federal Government allows for and encourages parents to act as advocates for their "special needs" children. In fact, the Federal Government acknowledges that parents of "special needs" children are truly the expert on the child simply because of the knowledge that parents have. There is no test to take to be an advocate, but I challenge Mr. Harvey and the Cleveland Bar association to explain how they would be a better advocate for any autistic child other than a parent. The autistic child is obviously not able to speak on his/her own behalf, so the responsibility must be deferred to a parent.> > Parents are a child's first teacher, responsible for their welfare, their education and their overall development. They are not motivated

by the fees that their advocacy may generate. They have the child's best interests at heart. Mr. Harvey was quoted as saying that "special education laws are so complex that children need experts, not untrained parents, looking out for their rights." > > If anyone is untrained on the needs of special education children, it is attorneys who do not have any special needs children. Mr. Harvey, my wife and I combined spend approximately 88 hours a week working with our son. We engage in therapy activities, research on the law, Individualized Education Plan development, and developing mainstream social skills. I know more about what my son needs, how he learns, how he interacts with people, and what he does daily than you could fit in your Blackberry. Good special education services are expensive and often not covered by health insurance. Parents of special needs children often have to fight for special services.

Advocacy is necessary. If that means that parents file documents in court to achieve the best interests of their child, so be it. It seems that the parents you are attacking are well ahead of the curve by knowing and understanding what their child needs and are doing what it takes to achieve that. You should be ashamed> at calling these people untrained. You are salty that you missed a fee. If you and the Cleveland Bar Association are so concerned about the rights and needs of special needs children, why do you and other attorneys intervene in a positive manner. You represent poor criminals, but I have never heard of an attorney that will help an autistic child get speech therapy without a retainer. > > Many parents of "special needs" children talk to each other to discuss advocacy strategies. This is no more criminal that you asking a colleague what type of oral argument would work best in front of

a particular judge. Yet, you want to take parents who have acquired specific knowledge and share it with other parents and silence them, all in the name of what is in the best interest of children.> > Parents of autistic children are already tired from the extra support we must give our special needs children, the lack of health care coverage for autism related services, the meetings with the schools and all the extras that we have to fight for. We are too tired to fight attorneys too, but we will if we have to. In the meantime, I will be forwarding communication to Congressman Dennis Kucinich requesting his help in helping parents combat roadblocks encountered because of autism. Problems get solved by serious people going after the problem, not a symptom. > > If you are truly that concerned about providing proper representation for children, you can advocate pro-bono for my son at his upcoming

IEP meeting on May 11th. I won't hold my breath waiting for a call.> > R. Biehl> Parent of a 5 year old autistic son> > > ---------------------------------> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1 & cent;/min.>

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.