Thyroid Numbers

[Guest guest]

Hello Helen - your story reminded me of mine! I felt for years that something was not quite right, and Ive had my TSH done numerous times over the years, just being told its normal! When I became menopausal all my symptoms worsened and I was exhausted with aches and pains all over and my memory and concentration were poor and I had the classic brain fog - of course my GP told me I was depressed (I remember saying its something physical I know it is, but she had decided I was depressed!).

Im telling you this because what I did was research - after the rheumatologist diagnosed fibromyalgia - breakthrough at last I had something to search for! It didnt take long before I knew it was my thyroid. (I thnk this is where you are now!). I had my bloods - TSH, fT3 and fT4 done at NPTech (about £33 for all). TSH 2.5, t3 and t 4 in range but at the bottom. I took the results to my GP and insisted that she referred me to an endocrinologist (and I knew who I wanted to go to!). She agreed reluctantly but said 'but the results are still normal' - I said I dont care, there is a lot of evidence that people can by HypoT and have bloods in the normal range! I girded my loins for a fight with the endo - and I told him what I thought, he had the results the GP had sent him and he said "I agree with you and we should try you on thyroxine". Now Im still increasing the dose and not perfect but a million times better than I was.

My advise is find an endo you want to go to - tell us where you live so we can offer advice, and look in the files - and then just insist on a referral - just say yes I understand what you are saying but I would still like to see a specialist. They will usually give in if they realise you arent going to make way for their next patient til you get what you want!

From what you have told me Im sure you are right and you are hypoT - dont bother trying to convince a GP who is ignorant, just get the referral come hell or high water! You've found the right place for answers here - I credit TPA with getting me on treatment despite my GPs ignorance!!

(I seem to have gone on a bit here dont I!!).

Gill

Hi everyone,To introduce myself, I'm Helen, aged 52 and three quarters. I've been convinced for nearly 10 years that my thyroid is not working very well. But I have what seems to be a familiar story of being told several times that my blood tests indicate there's nothing wrong. I've qualified in nutrition to try to get the better of this, without success.Over the last few months along with a bunch of menopause symptoms, my symptoms have got worse, and they ALL relate to hypothyroid. My doctor agreed to doing blood tests again and they came back with a TSH of 3.07. (the others T4 etc weren't done because TSH was in normal range). "there's nothing wrong come back in a year."My morning temperature is 97.8, even after a shower and a cup of tea. It seems to drop after I get up. Any day I feel about a 3 on a scale of 10, usually much worse in the morning. But worse recently and beginning to affect my work.My question is: how do other people feel at these levels? and, what TSH levels do people have who are on medication, Thyroxine or Armour??best regards,Helen

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[Guest guest]

HI Helen

Usually, people feel best with a tSH of 1.0 or less. If you were living in the USA or Germany and other parts of Europe, you would already have been given a diagnosis of hypothyroidism with a TSH of 3.7 as their upper level is 2.5 (unlike the UK where the BTA insist it should remain at 10).

If you are taking natural thyroid extract, yhour TSH is often completely suppressed as the pituitary doesn't need to send out any TSH, but if you are on synthetic thyroxine, it is usually a little higher. It all depends on whether the synthetic 'inactive' T4 is being converted into the 'active' T3. T3 needs to get into every cell in your body to make it function.

If your doctor refuses to test your Free T4 and Free T3, you can get these tested through NPTech Services. Go to our files and scroll down until you see this file. It gives you all the tests they do and the prices they charge. You can get your blood drawn at various private hospitals, though the nurse at your own surgery might be prepared to do this and you simply send off the blood to NPTech. You should also ask your GP to test to see if you have antibodies to your thyroid and also to test your ferritin (stored iron) level as many people suffering with low ferritin get all the symptoms of hypothyroidism and also it can actually CAUSE hypothyroidism.

You should also ask your GP to refer you to an endocrinologist and be very assertive about this. Your GP is not a specialist. Let us know what part of the country you live and we will see if we know of an endocrinologist who specialises in thyroid problems rather than diabetes, though they are few and far between. However, would you be prepared to be referred outside our area - and if we can't find somebody suitable, would you be prepared to see a specialist privately. You certainly can't go on feeliong the way you do and without treatment, you will only get worse. A year is far too long to wait, and you might actually have to take your health into your own hands to get well again.

We will help you all we can, because we know how badly the NHS look after patients who suffer hypothyroidism.

Luv - Sheila

> Hi everyone,> > To introduce myself, I'm Helen, aged 52 and three quarters. I've been > convinced for nearly 10 years that my thyroid is not working very > well. But I have what seems to be a familiar story of being told > several times that my blood tests indicate there's nothing wrong. > I've qualified in nutrition to try to get the better of this, without > success.> > Over the last few months along with a bunch of menopause symptoms, my > symptoms have got worse, and they ALL relate to hypothyroid. My > doctor agreed to doing blood tests again and they came back with a > TSH of 3.07. (the others T4 etc weren't done because TSH was in > normal range). "there's nothing wrong come back in a year."> > My morning temperature is 97.8, even after a shower and a cup of tea. > It seems to drop after I get up. Any day I feel about a 3 on a scale > of 10, usually much worse in the morning. But worse recently and > beginning to affect my work.> > My question is: how do other people feel at these levels? and, what > TSH levels do people have who are on medication, Thyroxine or Armour??> > best regards,> Helen>

[Guest guest]

It is not your present 'number' but the trend that your thyroid blood test results are showing. If your tsh is rising then you need treatment for hypothyroidism. You should get all your blood results and show them on a graph. Some doctors are compassionate and give you treatment before you get to a tsh of 4 but there is evidence to show that at that point you have furry arteries which could have been avoided. Also you should have your cholesterol tested. If your cholesterol is high starting on thyroxine can make it return to normal without statins. Go back to your doctor and request he test your blood again for tsh and for cholesterol.Kind regardsnna (who should not be confused with nne we are two different people)

[Guest guest]

http://www.nutricentre.com/pages/search.aspx?search-catalog=Products & search-phrase=Nutri+Adrenal+Extra

Start by taking one with your breakfast for a couple of days, and then increase by taking another one with your lunch. Do not take any after 1.00p.m. as it says on the bottle because the extra adrenolin might keep you awake. If necessary, after a week or so, you can increase again by taking another tablet.

Luv - Sheila

Hi everyone,To introduce myself, I'm Helen, aged 52 and three quarters. I've been convinced for nearly 10 years that my thyroid is not working very well. But I have what seems to be a familiar story of being told several times that my blood tests indicate there's nothing wrong. I've qualified in nutrition to try to get the better of this, without success.Over the last few months along with a bunch of menopause symptoms, my symptoms have got worse, and they ALL relate to hypothyroid. My doctor agreed to doing blood tests again and they came back with a TSH of 3.07. (the others T4 etc weren't done because TSH was in normal range). "there's nothing wrong come back in a year."My morning temperature is 97.8, even after a shower and a cup of tea. It seems to drop after I get up. Any day I feel about a 3 on a scale of 10, usually much worse in the morning. But worse recently and beginning to affect my work.My question is: how do other people feel at these levels? and, what TSH levels do people have who are on medication, Thyroxine or Armour??best regards,Helen

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[Guest guest]

http://www.nutricentre.com/pages/search.aspx?search-catalog=Products & search-phrase=Nutri+Adrenal+Extra

Start by taking one with your breakfast for a couple of days, and then increase by taking another one with your lunch. Do not take any after 1.00p.m. as it says on the bottle because the extra adrenolin might keep you awake. If necessary, after a week or so, you can increase again by taking another tablet.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila are these ok to take with various other meds do you know?

x

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[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

It is possible to feel all the symptoms of thyroid failure and

still have 'normal' TSH. This test is on feedback, not a direct measure, so

there are more points for it to go wrong. The pituitary produces TSH to tell

the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormones in response to a lowered level

in the bloodstream. So if the pituitary is not doing its job, then even a

healthy thyroid won't produce enough thyroid hoemones.

-----Original Message-----

Hi everyone,

My morning temperature is 97.8, even after a shower and a cup of tea.

It seems to drop after I get up. Any day I feel about a 3 on a scale

of 10, usually much worse in the morning. But worse recently and

beginning to affect my work.

My question is: how do other people feel at these levels? and, what

TSH levels do people have who are on medication, Thyroxine or Armour??

best regards,

Helen

Messages are not a substitute for professional medical advice. Always

consult with a suitably qualified practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Yes, they are very safe as they are a natural product.

Luv - Sheila

http://www.nutricentre.com/pages/search.aspx?search-catalog=Products & search-phrase=Nutri+Adrenal+Extra

Start by taking one with your breakfast for a couple of days, and then increase by taking another one with your lunch. Do not take any after 1.00p.m. as it says on the bottle because the extra adrenolin might keep you awake. If necessary, after a week or so, you can increase again by taking another tablet.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila are these ok to take with various other meds do you know? x

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[Guest guest]

Hi nna

I so agree with you regarding high cholesterol. In the good old days, if you had high cholesterol, immediately they suspected this could be caused through hypothyroidism. Everybody should get this tested immediately but please, don't be persuaded that if it is high, you should take Statins. There are products such as CoEnzymeQ10 and high dose Niacin (Vitamin B3) that can help reduce this.

It is not your present 'number' but the trend that your thyroid blood test results are showing. If your tsh is rising then you need treatment for hypothyroidism. You should get all your blood results and show them on a graph. Some doctors are compassionate and give you treatment before you get to a tsh of 4 but there is evidence to show that at that point you have furry arteries which could have been avoided. Also you should have your cholesterol tested. If your cholesterol is high starting on thyroxine can make it return to normal without statins. Go back to your doctor and request he test your blood again for tsh and for cholesterol.Kind regardsnna (who should not be confused with nne we are two different people)

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[Guest guest]

Well they take absolutely no notice of cholesterol being linked to hypot now, with a cholesterol reading of over 10 and a TSH of 8 and 5st weight gain, I still could not get a diagnosis.

Luv nne

Hi nna

In the good old days, if you had high cholesterol, immediately they suspected this could be caused through hypothyroidism.

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[Guest guest]

>

> Well they take absolutely no notice of cholesterol being linked to

hypot now, with a cholesterol reading of over 10 and a TSH of 8 and

5st weight gain, I still could not get a diagnosis.

Re the above comment. nne, I hope you don't mind me asking but

what finally tilted it so you finally did get a diagnosis? Did you

have to go outside the system? Just curious as I have noticed a lot of

posters on this board also have textbook symptoms, textbook bloods,

etc and yet are stuck in a relentless treadmill getting nowhere. I

think it is appalling that with the combination of symptoms you had,

you didn't get diagnosed.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

I have no problem with you asking at all Tracey, like so many, I had to wait until my TSH went over 10, took 5 long years from TSH of 8 so I must have been very hypothyroid long before I realised, and then I was told that I was only MILDLY hyopthyroid LOL. I also had the symptoms diagnosed in May 2000 of narrowed arteries which, accordingly to Dr Lowe, is caused by undiagnosed hyothyroidism but even I didn't know until early 2000 that it was a possibility due to sudden weight gain, I had no symptoms other than tiredness prior to that but held a full time job and ran a house so thought that normal. Had I known about this group before 2005 (found it shortly after diagnosis) or more about hypothyroidism, then perhaps I would have gone out of the system but it was a GP at our local surgery who sent me for tests after me begging and her telling me to lose a bit of weight and then she would prescribe me slimming pills!!!

Yes it was bad that they don't take notice of symptoms, with a TSH so very high it would seem to me the first thing that they would have done would be presribe thyroxine but no I was prescribed, ace inhibitors, statins, etc.,and they wanted to put me on 8 tablets a day. I took them for about a month and then decided I was not going to shorten my life and live on dreadful drugs whilst doing that but even with a very healthy diet I could only get my cholesterol down to 7.6. But I am so very much luckier than those who are very hypothyroid, have every symptom going but their bloods are not text book hypot as you say, and they will never get a diagnosis - yes, I am very lucky indeed.

Luv nne

Re the above comment. nne, I hope you don't mind me asking but

what finally tilted it so you finally did get a diagnosis? Did you

have to go outside the system?

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[Guest guest]

, I was already hypo taking thyroxine and was quite well on it for about 12 years. I then started to get bad again, yet my TSH was low, so GP would not do anything about it, despite me getting all the symptoms, and signs which would have been obvious to the eye.

In the end I went to NPTech (a private lab) to find out that my T4 was on the very bottom number of the range and the T3 well below the range. Even then went I took this result to the GP I was just given an increase in thyroxine and told that they take no notice of T3.

After a couple of months on the higher thyroxine dose I began to feel bad again. In the end I had to go to a private doctor who, after arranging a 24 hour urine test, which gave the same result he prescribed T3 for me.

All hell broke loose when I told my GP that I was taking T3 and he just would not listen even though I was improving. He said he would treat me for anything else but washed his hands of my thyroid condition. The trouble was that anything else I got he wouldn't treat because he kept telling me that the remedy was in my own hands, e.g. stop taking the T3. A broken finger would be because I was taking T3 so in the end I had to change doctors.

I was already under an endo for my diabetes who reacted the same as my GP. Fortunately he has now left and I have a new endo who seems to be more enlightened.

The new GP also conveniently ignores my thyroid condition, but at least does treat me for anything else I get.

Lilian

Did you have to go outside the system? Just curious as I have noticed a lot of posters on this board also have textbook symptoms, textbook bloods, etc and yet are stuck in a relentless treadmill getting nowhere. I think it is appalling that with the combination of symptoms you had, you didn't get diagnosed.

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone, hope I'm responding in the right way - I'm not familiar

with using forums like this.

thanks so much for all of the feedback. My TSH has risen over the

last 3 years. I spoke to my GP yesterday, the other female one that I

saw who asked for the blood test is off on hols now, and he is upset

that the test was done. There's nothing wrong with my thyroid it's

mid-range and healthy, he says, and it was a waste of time. He won't

do any more blood test for either T4 or antibodies. I confirmed that

the reference range is 0.3 to 3.3 so 3.07 not exactly mid-range. So

I'm funding my own tests now. Unless I can continue with the other

doc. (I think I upset him before by turning down a prescription for

anti-depressants and HRT.)

I'm north of Aberdeen - is there any endo in the area that anyone

knows? Even anywhere else in Scotland is possible. I know there is

someone who prescribes Armour in Aberdeen or Banff but can't find out

who. (I'd prefer not to take synthetic medication unless absolutely

necessary.)

I will send off for the Nutri Adrenal and 've made an appintment for

Dr. Peatfield in Aberdeen in January.

kind regards,

Helen

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> To introduce myself, I'm Helen, aged 52 and three quarters. I've

been

> convinced for nearly 10 years that my thyroid is not working very

> well. But I have what seems to be a familiar story of being told

> several times that my blood tests indicate there's nothing wrong.

> I've qualified in nutrition to try to get the better of this,

without

> success.

>

> Over the last few months along with a bunch of menopause symptoms,

my

> symptoms have got worse, and they ALL relate to hypothyroid. My

> doctor agreed to doing blood tests again and they came back with a

> TSH of 3.07. (the others T4 etc weren't done because TSH was in

> normal range). " there's nothing wrong come back in a year. "

>

> My morning temperature is 97.8, even after a shower and a cup of

tea.

> It seems to drop after I get up. Any day I feel about a 3 on a

scale

> of 10, usually much worse in the morning. But worse recently and

> beginning to affect my work.

>

> My question is: how do other people feel at these levels? and, what

> TSH levels do people have who are on medication, Thyroxine or

Armour??

>

> best regards,

> Helen

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lilian! This is a learning experience in more ways than 1!

kind regards, Helen

>

> Hi Helen,

>

> You did fine, but you need to snip the message you are replying

to.

[Guest guest]

Hi All:

What are your thoughts regarding the test numbers we get from Thyroid blood

tests from the medical doctors. I've read a few articles and have seen on other

websites that even though the tests come out normal, they in fact are not normal

and that hypothyroidism may still be an issue. Have any of you experienced this

situation, and if so where do you go to get better input. Obviously, the medical

doctor would look at me like I'm being a know it all, and not trusting her word.

Thanks for your input. Also, can anyone here recommend an active Thyroid

discussion group?

Atwood

http://www.traditionalcook.com

[Guest guest]

,

Look up StopTheThyroidMadness.com

TSH is the typical screening test done by docs. If you have thyroid

antibodies, it is not valid. Also, some people don't convert storage T.

4 hormone to active T.3 hormone especially with low ferritin or low

adrenals. This is the best thyroid site out there, and there are

discussion groups. I owe my to them.

[Guest guest]

Go to a good Endocrinologist. The regular doctors don't know boo.

I was misdiagnosed by regular doctors for over 20 years because they didn't run

the right labs and they didn't know how to read them. Finally, when they ran a

full thyroid panel which included the TPO antibodies, they found it.

From what I understand, most labs use a wider range for TSH (avg .5-5.0) than

what the Endocrinology Association recommends (.3-3.0). However, my Endo said

that in his experience, most people who are exhibiting symptoms still don't feel

well until their TSH is closer to 1.0. He doesn't look at just the TSH though.

He also looks at Free T4 and Free T3. He said that some people don't convert T4

to T3 well so they often need to have 2 medications, not just one medication.

Also, check your Ferritin and D3 - they should be at least midrange or above -

not just in the low average range. Those will affect how your thyroid functions

also. There are other thyroid tests that a knowledgeable practitioner would run

depending on your symptoms. Skip the doc in the box and go directly to a

specialist.

One thing also to look at is adrenal function and other comorbid conditions

which often go hand in hand with thyroid conditions (ex. candida, gluten

intolerance, etc). I am finding that regular docs and regular Endos use a more

mainstream approach (or non approach) which can miss many adrenal/gut issues

which can also impact thyroid. So, now I am in the process of consulting with an

MD/alternative doctor to get the proper testing done.

You may consider looking on for more thyroid groups. I found:

The_Thyroid_Support_Group and a local thyroid group in my area. Also,

Shoman's thyroid website on About.com has links to local thyroid groups. Jen

>

> Hi All:

> What are your thoughts regarding the test numbers we get from Thyroid blood

tests from the medical doctors. I've read a few articles and have seen on other

websites that even though the tests come out normal, they in fact are not normal

and that hypothyroidism may still be an issue. Have any of you experienced this

situation, and if so where do you go to get better input. Obviously, the medical

doctor would look at me like I'm being a know it all, and not trusting her word.

Thanks for your input. Also, can anyone here recommend an active Thyroid

discussion group?

>

> Atwood

> http://www.traditionalcook.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Test for Lyme as it ruins thyroid function.

[Guest guest]

Thanks - I'm now checking out all the info. I've been given.

Gratefully,

Atwood

http://www.traditionalcook.com

From: e Rosewall <erosewall@...>

Subject: Re:Thyroid Numbers

,

Look up StopTheThyroidMadness.com

TSH is the typical screening test done by docs. If you have thyroid 

antibodies, it is not valid. Also, some people don't convert storage T.

4 hormone to active T.3 hormone especially with low ferritin or low 

adrenals. This is the best thyroid site out there, and there are 

discussion groups. I owe my to them.

[Guest guest]

My antibodies went down with a gluten free diet (dairy free as well for me at

least for awhile) and with the addition of Iodine Synergy with selenium my low

T3 has gone up.

Joan

Thanks - I'm now checking out all the info. I've been given.

Gratefully,

Atwood

http://www.traditionalcook.com

From: e Rosewall <erosewall@...>

Subject: Re:Thyroid Numbers

,

Look up StopTheThyroidMadness.com

TSH is the typical screening test done by docs. If you have thyroid

antibodies, it is not valid. Also, some people don't convert storage T.

4 hormone to active T.3 hormone especially with low ferritin or low

adrenals. This is the best thyroid site out there, and there are

discussion groups. I owe my to them.