Re: Question for Robin

[Guest guest]

hi naut,i can say that there were a number of health professionals with innocent false positives in the 90 days i was there and some others i shared with from laguna beach,dr mccauley,who is a great addiction doctor,at sober living by the sea at that treatment center cdt is used a fair amount...at the heart of the matter to me is the more biomarkers urine and blood you have and the more clinical correlation you do,the more accurate your diagnosis will be...as for boards and attorneys,they are not exactly neutral in the matter,or knowledgeable in the matter...their view is that because they are protecting the public health the burden of proof to proove you have not relapsed is on you,innocent until proven guilty...it is always good to have a better good evidence than the not as good false positive evidence they have in any legal

situation...regards,thanks,robin nautiques5 <nautiques5@...> wrote: Robin, I appreciate all your information! I was wondering if anyone from Betty Ford reported problems with false positive Etg results and the need for additional testing which negated those false positives?When we first got into Dr. Skipper's discussion group the belief was that there were no such thing...of course, now things have changed for some. Labs are still advertising this as 'the gold standard' and those were the words used by the prosecuting attorney at

the hearing against me also. I think the more people who speak up about this...esp. respected facilities and doctors...the better chance this test would get used properly....esp. in programs like mine where a 'positive test is a irrefutable violation of contract' and automatic action on license!That is what is so frustrating...PA states, 'they don't care where the alcohol came from' (the MRO actually stated that also). My case manager stated 'I don't care if you had 2 shots of bourbon or cough medicine, it is still a violation of your contract'(which I didn't have either and STILL don't know what caused the positives!). With that mentality this test CANNOT be used as a 'gold standard' and I hope that EVERYONE who has seen it's limitations would SPEAK UP with there concerns!! Thanks so much for your input!

[Guest guest]

Two important facts supporting CDT that could be introduced in a hearing:

"Among the different biomarkers of chronic alcohol abuse, carbohydrate-deficient transferrin (CDT) is world wide recognized as the most reliable indicator." [bortolotti F, DePaoli G, Tagliaro F: "Carbohydrate-deficient transferrin (CDT) as a marker of alcohol abuse: A critical review of the literature 2001-2005", J Chromatogr B Analyt Technol Biomed Life Sci 2006 May 23]

"CDT is the most specific marker of chronic alcohol abuse to date." [Arndt, T: "Carbohydrate-deficient transferrin as a marker of chronic alcohol abuse: a critical review of preanalysis, analysis, and interpretation", Clin Chem. 2001 Jan; 47 (1): 13-27.]

Re: Question for Robin

hi naut,i can say that there were a number of health professionals with innocent

false positives in the 90 days i was there and some others i shared with from

laguna beach,dr mccauley,who is a great addiction doctor,at sober living by the

sea at that treatment center cdt is used a fair amount...at the heart of the matter

to me is the more biomarkers urine and blood you have and the more clinical

correlation you do,the more accurate your diagnosis will be...as for boards and

attorneys,they are not exactly neutral in the matter,or knowledgeable in the

matter...their view is that because they are protecting the public health the burden

of proof to proove you have not relapsed is on you,innocent until proven guilty...it is always good to have a better good evidence than the not as good false positive evidence they have in any legal situation...regards,thanks,robin nautiques5 <nautiques5@...> wrote:

Robin, I appreciate all your information! I was wondering if anyone from Betty Ford reported problems with false positive Etg results and the need for additional testing which negated those false positives?When we first got into Dr. Skipper's discussion group the belief was that there were no such thing...of course, now things have changed for some. Labs are still advertising this as 'the gold standard' and those were the words used by the prosecuting attorney at the hearing against me also. I think the more people who speak up about this...esp. respected facilities and doctors...the better chance this test would get used properly....esp. in programs like mine where a 'positive test is a irrefutable violation of contract' and automatic action on license!That is what is so frustrating...PA states, 'they don't care where the alcohol came from' (the MRO actually stated that also). My case manager stated 'I don't care if you had 2 shots of bourbon or cough medicine, it is still a violation of your contract'(which I didn't have either and STILL don't know what caused the positives!). With that mentality this test CANNOT be used as a 'gold standard' and I hope that EVERYONE who has seen it's limitations would SPEAK UP with there concerns!! Thanks so much for your input!

[Guest guest]

Well , and Bernadette with these thoughts "they don't care where it came from" don't you think that we should not only be working on the EtG issue but on the whole rationale of the program? Question for Robin

Robin, I appreciate all your information! I was wondering if anyone from Betty Ford reported problems with false positive Etg results and the need for additional testing which negated those false positives?When we first got into Dr. Skipper's discussion group the belief was that there were no such thing...of course, now things have changed for some. Labs are still advertising this as 'the gold standard' and those were the words used by the prosecuting attorney at the hearing against me also. I think the more people who speak up about this...esp. respected facilities and doctors...the better chance this test would get used properly....esp. in programs like mine where a 'positive test is a irrefutable violation of contract' and automatic action on license!That is what is so frustrating...PA states, 'they don't care where the alcohol came from' (the MRO actually stated that also). My case manager stated 'I don't care if you had 2 shots of bourbon or cough medicine, it is still a violation of your contract'(which I didn't have either and STILL don't know what caused the positives!). With that mentality this test CANNOT be used as a 'gold standard' and I hope that EVERYONE who has seen it's limitations would SPEAK UP with there concerns!! Thanks so much for your input!

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

yes, but you are missing the point, it doesn't matter if there is a relapse or a contract violation so therefore we lose. See for Pa they really don't care if you are safe to practice ..they care if you can follow a contract Re: Question for Robin

hi naut,i can say that there were a number of health professionals with innocent

false positives in the 90 days i was there and some others i shared with from

laguna beach,dr mccauley,who is a great addiction doctor,at sober living by the

sea at that treatment center cdt is used a fair amount...at the heart of the matter

to me is the more biomarkers urine and blood you have and the more clinical

correlation you do,the more accurate your diagnosis will be...as for boards and

attorneys,they are not exactly neutral in the matter,or knowledgeable in the

matter...their view is that because they are protecting the public health the burden

of proof to proove you have not relapsed is on you,innocent until proven guilty...it is always good to have a better good evidence than the not as good false positive evidence they have in any legal situation...regards,thanks,robin nautiques5 <nautiques5 > wrote:

Robin, I appreciate all your information! I was wondering if anyone from Betty Ford reported problems with false positive Etg results and the need for additional testing which negated those false positives?When we first got into Dr. Skipper's discussion group the belief was that there were no such thing...of course, now things have changed for some. Labs are still advertising this as 'the gold standard' and those were the words used by the prosecuting attorney at the hearing against me also. I think the more people who speak up about this...esp. respected facilities and doctors...the better chance this test would get used properly....esp. in programs like mine where a 'positive test is a irrefutable violation of contract' and automatic action on license!That is what is so frustrating...PA states, 'they don't care where the alcohol came from' (the MRO actually stated that also). My case manager stated 'I don't care if you had 2 shots of bourbon or cough medicine, it is still a violation of your contract'(which I didn't have either and STILL don't know what caused the positives!). With that mentality this test CANNOT be used as a 'gold standard' and I hope that EVERYONE who has seen it's limitations would SPEAK UP with there concerns!! Thanks so much for your input!

Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

i see your point,the contract makes it so they do not have to diagnose relapse,just contract violation...still a better blood biomarker showing etg to be innocent false positive would help from a legal standpoint...i would think...i have a 5 year contract for monitoring too...i will have to look at the language...regards crssemc@... wrote: yes, but you are missing the point, it doesn't matter if there is a relapse or a contract violation so therefore we lose. See for Pa they really don't care if you are safe to practice ..they care if you can follow a contract Re: Question for Robin hi naut,i can say that there were a number of health professionals with innocent false positives in the 90 days i was there and some others i shared with from laguna beach,dr mccauley,who is a

great addiction doctor,at sober living by the sea at that treatment center cdt is used a fair amount...at the heart of the matter to me is the more biomarkers urine and blood you have and the more clinical correlation you do,the more accurate your diagnosis will be...as for boards and attorneys,they are not exactly neutral in the matter,or knowledgeable in the matter...their view is that because they are protecting the public health the burden of proof to proove you have not relapsed is on you,innocent until proven guilty...it is always good to have a better good evidence than the not as good false positive evidence they have in any legal situation...regards,thanks,robin nautiques5 <nautiques5 > wrote: Robin, I appreciate all your information! I was wondering if anyone from Betty Ford reported problems with false positive Etg results and the need for additional testing which negated those false positives?When we first got into Dr. Skipper's discussion group the belief was that there were no such thing...of course, now things have changed for some. Labs are still advertising this as 'the gold standard' and those were the words used by the prosecuting attorney at the hearing against me also. I think the more people who speak up about this...esp. respected facilities and doctors...the better chance this test would get used properly....esp. in programs like mine where a 'positive test

is a irrefutable violation of contract' and automatic action on license!That is what is so frustrating...PA states, 'they don't care where the alcohol came from' (the MRO actually stated that also). My case manager stated 'I don't care if you had 2 shots of bourbon or cough medicine, it is still a violation of your contract'(which I didn't have either and STILL don't know what caused the positives!). With that mentality this test CANNOT be used as a 'gold standard' and I hope that EVERYONE who has seen it's limitations would SPEAK UP with there concerns!! Thanks so much for your input! Check out

AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jan!

I, too, didn't know that some adhesions could be massaged away - I

thought that once there always there, and I didn't realize how fast

they formed.

They didn't hurt, at least for me, and I only felt a couple and

didn't hear the " pop " sound. My PT compares it to popping bubble

plastic (!). She said I would feel sore later and I did, but for me

it was nothing more than my regular soreness after PT.

I typed " massage adhesions " into my browser which came up with pages

of results, too many to list here. There are many more pros than

cons. The term that comes up repeatedly is " deep tissue massage "

and " transverse massage " .

Good luck with your search!

Regards,

Robin in NWFlorida

---

" Jan " <kpkwi@...> wrote:

>

> You wrote:

>

> " PT " popped " several of the adhesions in my knee. I hadn't heard

> this was possible, so that is was is quite a relief. "

>

> How did they do that? Did it hurt?

[Guest guest]

Great! I will do a search.

Thanks for the info.

Jan

> >

> > " PT " popped " several of the adhesions in my knee. I hadn't heard

> > this was possible, so that is was is quite a relief. "

> >

> > How did they do that? Did it hurt?

>

[Guest guest]

I know my PT showed me how to massage my knee cap to have the skin attached there loosen. If you look at your non-surgical knee cap you will see that the skin moves easily over it but after surgery the surgical knee was stuck in place. I now have it completely loose due to pushing at it with my thumbs and some oil on it.

-----Original Message-----From: Joint Replacement [mailto:Joint Replacement ]On Behalf Of levan_53Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 3:51 PMJoint Replacement Subject: Re: Question for Robin

Hi, Jan!I, too, didn't know that some adhesions could be massaged away - I thought that once there always there, and I didn't realize how fast they formed.They didn't hurt, at least for me, and I only felt a couple and didn't hear the "pop" sound. My PT compares it to popping bubble plastic (!). She said I would feel sore later and I did, but for me it was nothing more than my regular soreness after PT.I typed "massage adhesions" into my browser which came up with pages of results, too many to list here. There are many more pros than cons. The term that comes up repeatedly is "deep tissue massage" and "transverse massage".Good luck with your search!Regards,Robin in NWFlorida--- "Jan" <kpkwi@...> wrote:>> You wrote:> > "PT "popped" several of the adhesions in my knee. I hadn't heard > this was possible, so that is was is quite a relief."> > How did they do that? Did it hurt?