Re: Re: Corteo, the Cirque de Soleil performance.

[Guest guest]

Amen . Average sized circus performers " careen " all over the audience

anyway, why not an LP? And at least this is performance art and not your

typical circus with dwarfs dressed as clowns and crammed into a funny car.

;-)

Bill

On 8/8/06, M <petite_isla@...> wrote:

>

> I've seen another of Cirque de Soleil's shows in Vegas which also had

> an LP in a prominent role. Bravo for Cirque to break the mold and

> consider us just another performer.

>

> From what I saw in Vegas, a large part of their show consists of

> having performers perform in the air. Flying around, barely attached

> to anything is part of the thrill they give the audience. I would find

> it no different if the woman strapped to the balloon was an LP or not.

>

[Guest guest]

When I first read your reply Bill, I thought, " yer, he has a point, why

not? "

BUT, Bill, it aint as cut and dried as that. I think we all agree that

dwarfism IS a disability. So, what they are doing is strapping a DISABLED

person to a balloon and sent flying over the audiance.

Would they DARE to try it with a wheelchair user? Would they DARE to try it

with any other 'disabled person'? NO!!!!!!!!!

For some reason, dwarfs are still seen as fair game for this sort of

activity. And it doesn't take much imagination to see that this stunt was

done, yes, for the pleasure of the audiance, BUT, by using a dwarf, this

pleasure is (sadly) greatly increased.

I say all this, but then, I think, hmmmm, ironic aint it? Well, I mean, we

cry out for equality in all walks of life and as soon as we get it, we

scream foul play:-)

Cheers

Fred

Re: Re: Corteo, the Cirque de Soleil performance.

Amen . Average sized circus performers " careen " all over the audience

anyway, why not an LP? And at least this is performance art and not your

typical circus with dwarfs dressed as clowns and crammed into a funny car.

;-)

Bill

On 8/8/06, M <petite_isla@...> wrote:

>

> I've seen another of Cirque de Soleil's shows in Vegas which also had

> an LP in a prominent role. Bravo for Cirque to break the mold and

> consider us just another performer.

>

> From what I saw in Vegas, a large part of their show consists of

> having performers perform in the air. Flying around, barely attached

> to anything is part of the thrill they give the audience. I would find

> it no different if the woman strapped to the balloon was an LP or not.

>

[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, Rose. Maybe it is really the semantics of " Dwarfism is a disability "

to which you object? After all, if dwarfism ISN'T a disability, why then do

we get so many e-mails on the list about society's attitude towards us,

problems going for interviews, enough medical problems to write a whole

library of books etc etc etc.

I know, we COULD say " Dwarfism is disabling " but not necessarily a

disability in its own right. Just the same as recently we discussed whether

or not dwarfism was a disease!

BUT, at the end of the day, I think it is unquestioning that our Dwarfism

DOES disable us from leading the same quality of life as those deemed to be

" normal " members of society.

However, in fairness, I think that debate is an aside to the crux of my

e-mail.

Dwarfs still have to gain pride, acceptance, and respect from " Society "

which includes being totally devoid of ANY form of 'clown' label to which we

ALL (yes, Rose, ALL) still suffer!

Every other form of 'disability' seems to have gained this respect from

society EXCEPT dwarfism!

It is still 'o.k.' for society to view dwarfs as a source of humour! It is

still 'o.k.' for society to laugh in our face. It is still 'o.k.' for

parents to ALLOW their children all manner of actions and expletives towards

us, without feeling the need to either educate or check! BECAUSE that

seemingly God Given Licence is still in existence.

We have a history of being the source of humour, of being the " Court

Jester " , circus fodder, advertising material etc etc etc.

Until we kill off this image, until we finally lay to rest the right to

snigger, until we don't need to feel the need to even THINK about telling

prospective employers that we are dwarf before we get a foot in the door,

and yes, before we accept that it IS acceptable to strap a dwarf to a ball

and hurl him/her around an auditorium, then I'm sorry, but it is NOT

acceptable!

IF the day ever comes, if that halcyon time ever arrives where yes, we ARE

equal to every other section of society and we have shrugged off this

stigmatic label of humour, THEN, and only THEN, can we begin to allow jokes

about ourselves to be universally acceptable.

So sorry Rose, but yes, Dwarfism, one way or another IS a disability! I may

personally have been successful in life, but only because I was successful

in over-riding the problems of my dwarfism. And that, sadly, is NO thanks

to the society in which I demanded to live and have equal rights.

Amen:-)

Fred

P.S. And I TOTALLY love and admire Cirque Du Soleil ! Lin and I have been

to Vegas twice JUST to see their shows!

Re: Corteo, the Cirque de Soleil performance.

> Fred --

>

> I think you are mistaken. You state " I think we all agree that

> dwarfism IS a disability " and I think you are wrong in that belief.

> The idea of dwarfism as a disability is a strong bone of contention

> within our community. Some say yes we are disabled; others say no we

> are just short. It's the same in the deaf community. Some say yes

> they are disabled; others say no they are a linguistic minority. I

> actually see both sides of the argument in both communities and

> refuse to say one side is right because that would make the other one

> wrong.

>

> As for strapping a disabled person to a balloon what about the

> aforementioned Deaf person? They could be considered disabled --

> would that be offensive? You ask if they would " dare " to " strap " a

> wheelchair user to this balloon, but I want to ask how would you

> know? Unless the wheelchair is attached to the balloon as well you

> wouldn't know how the performer got onto the balloon back stage.

>

> I'm sorry, Fred, I am failing to understand why this is so offensive

> to you. I was lucky enough to the the Cirque de Soleil La Nouba show

> at Disney World a few years ago & loved it. I am not a fan of

> traditional circuses but would happily see a " Cirque " performance

> again.

>

> Rose

>

>

>>

>> When I first read your reply Bill, I thought, " yer, he has a point,

> why

>> not? "

>>

>> BUT, Bill, it aint as cut and dried as that. I think we all agree

> that

>> dwarfism IS a disability. So, what they are doing is strapping a

> DISABLED

>> person to a balloon and sent flying over the audiance.

>>

>> Would they DARE to try it with a wheelchair user? Would they DARE

> to try it

>> with any other 'disabled person'? NO!!!!!!!!!

>>

>> For some reason, dwarfs are still seen as fair game for this sort

> of

>> activity. And it doesn't take much imagination to see that this

> stunt was

>> done, yes, for the pleasure of the audiance, BUT, by using a dwarf,

> this

>> pleasure is (sadly) greatly increased.

>>

>> I say all this, but then, I think, hmmmm, ironic aint it? Well, I

> mean, we

>> cry out for equality in all walks of life and as soon as we get it,

> we

>> scream foul play:-)

>>

>> Cheers

>>

>> Fred

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

While I disagree with Fred about his assessment of dwarfs in Cirque Du

Soleil, he is correct in that dwarfism is a disability. At least in the

US. It listed under the ADA as one of many disabling conditions that

deserve protection for employment, public access and education.

And that begs the question: Why is everyone ashamed to admit they're

disabled? If we get over the concept that dwarfism, or any disability, is

something to be ashamed of, then maybe we might just move forward in the

respect department. All disabled means is you fall outside the bell curve

for the range of what is considered physically-abled. AND since society is

geared for those that fall under the curve, you may need some assistance to

makes things easier. Would someone with a broken leg refuse a cast because

it would " label " them as dependent or needy? Of course not. (Everyone

should check out the Disability is Natural website).

Also, call me mercenary, but if calling myself disabled helps me get a

scholarship or a job, then I will do it. Heck, 6'7 " 300 pound men without a

lick of sense get full ride scholarships to play football and get a free

education. Why shouldn't I get a scholarship for being on the other end the

size extreme?

Bill

> So sorry Rose, but yes, Dwarfism, one way or another IS a disability!<

>

> Honestly Fred, until some 10 years ago you would not have been able to

> convince me of this. Now my dwarfism IS disabling because of the

> physical issues that have cropped up and yet not enough to keep me

> from being successful. Maybe because I did grow up in diversity, knew

> others who had hard times, I didn't consider my dwarfism to be my

> disability no more than I did their language barrier, their skin color

> or other difference others didn't accept.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " M " <petite_isla@...>

> I think in the case of Cirque one has to see a performance. The

> diversity of the performers is to be applauded, at least in the show I

> saw.

Personally I think the shows are absolutely fantastic, as is the music.

>> BECAUSE that seemingly God Given Licence is still in existence.<

> If we were talking 10 years ago and over it might be true. I think

> overall (at least American) society is slowly gaining awareness for

> physical differences.

Well, Lin and I have only been travelling to the States since, yes, about

ten years ago, and we are still, to this day, totally gob-smacked by what we

see as the afrontary of some citizen's attitude and blatant approach towards

us.

>> We have a history of being the source of humour, of being the " Court

> Jester " , circus fodder, advertising material etc etc etc.

>

> Topics from recent postings I guess. Court Jesters come in every size

> and color,

Ah, sorry, I was referring to English History, where Castle owners literally

fed, watered, and clothed dwarfs, JUST to have them as jesters for social

occassions.

>> P.S. And I TOTALLY love and admire Cirque Du Soleil ! Lin and I

> have been to Vegas twice JUST to see their shows!<

>

> So you were in Vegas and there were no dwarfs in the shows you saw?

>

> Interesting.

You have me thinking now! Not that I remember. We stayed at the Treasure

Island Hotel to see Mystere and we stayed at the Belagio to see " 0 " . I

wanna come back to see the new show at the " New York " , which is adult, but

Lin won't let me:-))))

Incidently, we consider Vegas, and especially the strip, to be one of, if

not THE, safest places for us to be. Why? Cos there is that many security

folks around! Well, judging by the number of people we saw with ear pieces

in. They can't all have been deaf:-)

Cheers

Fred

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Bill Bradford " <tslug1@...>

> And that begs the question: Why is everyone ashamed to admit they're

> disabled?

Whoe!!!!!! Don't you think it is more a case of SOCIETY trying to MAKE us

ashamed of our 'disability'? I think it is more a case of us continually

trying to prove to society that disability, our disability is NOT something

to be ashamed of.

To admit 'shame' is to accept fault. i.e. We caused our disability,

therefore we are to blame and thus be ashamed of ourselves. NOT THE

CASE!!!!!!

>

> Also, call me mercenary, but if calling myself disabled helps me get a

> scholarship or a job, then I will do it. Heck, 6'7 " 300 pound men without

> a

> lick of sense get full ride scholarships to play football and get a free

> education. Why shouldn't I get a scholarship for being on the other end

> the

> size extreme?

Bill, I'm TOTALLY With you! I have said for a long time now, that my

dwarfism has been my ticket through life. It has opened doors

(metaphorically speaking), it has continually kicked me in the backside to

motivation. etc. etc. etc. I am convinced that had it not been for my

dwarfism, I would not be where I am today - NO WAY!!!!!!

Cheers

Fred

[Guest guest]

I thought I might provide a little insight into Cirque and it's

philosophy. lee was spotted by the casting director for Cirque,

Michel Laprise, in Edinburgh, Scotland. He introduced himself, told her

he was very impressed with her act and asked her for contact

information. About a year latter she was invited to come to Vegas to

audition for a possible show. The audition, a full day of ad-lib and

improve, for a possible show based on the differences of physicality we

all have as human beings. There was a Sumo wrestler from Long Beach, who

was a very nice young man, Mayhew (Chewbacca) whom I am happy to

say is a wonderfully warm man that I am now very honored to know, a set

of triplet dancers (I just saw her walk out that door, how did she get

to the other side of the room?!), another little person and a couple

highly skilled and very amiable men both saddened by the fact that age

has made them gymnasts rather than the acrobats they once used to be

since they are merely able to do triple summersaults as opposed to the

quadruples they used to do (the bastards).

As the early morning audition progressed the other dwarf was told his

services would no longer be needed while lee was kept on and passed

as a qualified Cirque cast member because she revels in who she is as a

person rather than falling back on cheap short jokes. That's what

was looking for and that's what he saw in her from the

beginning, someone who loved herself for who she was and who could share

that love with an audience. Three foot six lee danced with the

seven foot thee inch Mayhew, who is a warm Teddy Bear of a man, at

one point serenaded her as she stood on a balcony then she

wrestled the 300 pound plus Sumo wrestler to defeat. What a fun day. and

in the end it all had to do with personality and not physicality.

Michel is a warm man who likes lee for the right reasons and he

clearly let us know that that is the attitude of the company as well. I

certainly hold Cirque in high regard after our personal experience with

them.

Cirque is an organization made up of people who will not deal with

disabled people. They deal with people with personalities regardless of

disabilities and look at possibilities rather than limitations.

Marty

M wrote:

> I've seen another of Cirque de Soleil's shows in Vegas which also had

> an LP in a prominent role. Bravo for Cirque to break the mold and

> consider us just another performer.

>

> >From what I saw in Vegas, a large part of their show consists of

> having performers perform in the air. Flying around, barely attached

> to anything is part of the thrill they give the audience. I would find

> it no different if the woman strapped to the balloon was an LP or not.

>

>

> >

> > Has anyone seen Corteo, the Cirque de Soleil performance.

> >

> > In the show, two little people play prominent roles. At one point

> the woman is strapped to giant balloons and sent careening out over

> the audience.

> >

> > If you seen this performance what is your view on the LP being

> strapped to giant balloons and sent careening out over the audience.

> >

> > Tom

>

>