Questions

[Guest guest]

Many of us have been on CRON for a long time. There are ongoing human scientific studies but the problem is that the data on human longevity afa CRON may not be valid for a long time to come due to our somewhat longer lifespan. A primate study at NIH has been ongoing and the CRON monkeys are healthier than the controls. But data on longevity is not yet available. Of course even the primate studies may be irrelevant to humans.

From: Siddhananda Devi <siddhananda_devi@...>

Reply-< >

Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:27:40 -0000

< >

Subject: [ ] questions

Does anyone know who has been following a CR/ON diet for several

years? Is the medical and dietary information of this person(s) part

of a scientific study within an aging laboratory / group? Are there

currently people who are participating in a long-term study in this

area?

Om Peace!

Valarie Devi

[Guest guest]

Hi Siddha:

In the files here there is a fairly long list of studies of the effects of CR:

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/UDSrSMBsszuuqU4Ae_gTiCa2cmW8HhIVfUCO4OcPzf06hYWtSUTNGkVrP-TPw3T0yJEIjPt2JyHTKGLgkeK-/CRstudies

But not many of them relate directly to humans. The following ten do however.

The tenth one listed below is the classic study on the topic. The effects of CR on important biomarkers are noted in the tables in the paper. It is generally referred to here as "The WUSTL Study". The full text is available free via Pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

1:

Riordan MM, Weiss EP, Meyer TE, Ehsani AA, Racette SB, Villareal DT, Fontana L, Holloszy JO, Kovács SJ.

The effects of caloric restriction- and exercise-induced weight loss on left ventricular diastolic function.

Am J Physiol Heart Circ Physiol. 2008 Mar;294(3):H1174-82. Epub 2007 Dec 27.

PMID: 18162561

2:

Holloszy JO, Fontana L.

Caloric restriction in humans.

Exp Gerontol. 2007 Aug;42(8):709-12. Epub 2007 Mar 31. Review.

PMID: 17482403

3:

Fontana L, Villareal DT, Weiss EP, Racette SB, Steger-May K, Klein S, Holloszy JO; and the Washington University School of Medicine CALERIE Group.

Calorie restriction or exercise: effects on coronary heart disease risk factors. A randomized, controlled trial.

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul;293(1):E197-202. Epub 2007 Mar 27.

PMID: 17389710

4:

Villareal DT, Fontana L, Weiss EP, Racette SB, Steger-May K, Schechtman KB, Klein S, Holloszy JO.

Bone mineral density response to caloric restriction-induced weight loss or exercise-induced weight loss: a randomized controlled trial.

Arch Intern Med. 2006 Dec 11-25;166(22):2502-10. Erratum in: Arch Intern Med. 2007 Mar 12;167(5):452.

PMID: 17159017

5:

Weiss EP, Racette SB, Villareal DT, Fontana L, Steger-May K, Schechtman KB, Klein S, Ehsani AA, Holloszy JO; Washington University School of Medicine CALERIE Group.

Lower extremity muscle size and strength and aerobic capacity decrease with caloric restriction but not with exercise-induced weight loss.

J Appl Physiol. 2007 Feb;102(2):634-40. Epub 2006 Nov 9.

PMID: 17095635

6:

Weiss EP, Racette SB, Villareal DT, Fontana L, Steger-May K, Schechtman KB, Klein S, Holloszy JO; Washington University School of Medicine CALERIE Group.

Improvements in glucose tolerance and insulin action induced by increasing energy expenditure or decreasing energy intake: a randomized controlled trial.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Nov;84(5):1033-42.

PMID: 17093155

7:

Racette SB, Weiss EP, Villareal DT, Arif H, Steger-May K, Schechtman KB, Fontana L, Klein S, Holloszy JO; Washington University School of Medicine CALERIE Group.

One year of caloric restriction in humans: feasibility and effects on body composition and abdominal adipose tissue.

J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2006 Sep;61(9):943-50.

PMID: 16960025

8:

Fontana L, Klein S, Holloszy JO, Premachandra BN.

Effect of long-term calorie restriction with adequate protein and micronutrients on thyroid hormones.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2006 Aug;91(8):3232-5. Epub 2006 May 23.

PMID: 16720655

9:

Meyer TE, Kovács SJ, Ehsani AA, Klein S, Holloszy JO, Fontana L.

Long-term caloric restriction ameliorates the decline in diastolic function in humans.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2006 Jan 17;47(2):398-402.

PMID: 16412867

10:

Fontana L, Meyer TE, Klein S, Holloszy JO.

Long-term calorie restriction is highly effective in reducing the risk for atherosclerosis in humans.

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Apr 27;101(17):6659-63. Epub 2004 Apr 19.

PMID: 15096581

At least one member here, probably more than one, was a subject in the study reported on in the paper published in 2004.

Rodney.

>> Does anyone know who has been following a CR/ON diet for several > years? Is the medical and dietary information of this person(s) part > of a scientific study within an aging laboratory / group? Are there > currently people who are participating in a long-term study in this > area?> > Om Peace!> Valarie Devi>

[Guest guest]

Hi Siddha:

Regarding who has been on CR for an extended period, there is a table in the database section of this site (click upper left) which lists 35 people, when they started CR, and some of their body metrics.

Rodney.

>> Does anyone know who has been following a CR/ON diet for several > years? Is the medical and dietary information of this person(s) part > of a scientific study within an aging laboratory / group? Are there > currently people who are participating in a long-term study in this > area?> > Om Peace!> Valarie Devi>

[Guest guest]

I have developed yeast issues from the MMS. You should absolutely take probiotics while on MMS. It does kill both the good and bad bacteria especially at the higher doses.

The lower doses do not seem to be prone to this problem. Also, you only need to take the Vit.c 2 hours away from the MMS, not 4. It is o.k. to swish in mouth.

-- [ ] questions

is it best to take probiotics while on MMS? if so should they be spaced

as far away from taking MMS as possible? does MMS kill good bacteria as

well as bad? should probiotics be taken with food, without? any

recommendations for brand and dose?

does MMS chelate iron from body? if so should iron be taken while on

MMS? how far apart?

what about taking supplmts in general on MMS? i know C must be taken at

least 4 h away. what re other supplmts?

re treating mouth with MMS? ok to swish with the MMS solution before

swallowing or best to clean mouth by brushing teeth with MMS solution as

described in humble's book? wondering if one swishes with solution if it

would be best to spit it out afterwards instead of swallowing it? anyone

here seen improvement with receeding gums using MMS?

thanks

monique

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

On 9/16/2008, susan (ssiegel5@...) wrote:

> Also, you only need to take the Vit.c 2 hours away from the MMS, not

> 4. It is o.k. to swish in mouth.

Well... it would help to be more precise...

MMS continues to do its work for up to 12 hours. If you take Vit C 2

hours after taking your MMS, guess what? You just shortened that 12

hours to 2.

Best advice for taking ANY anti-oxidant - MMS is an oxidant, so ANY

anti-oxidant will have a canceling effect - when you are taking MMS is

to space them apart as much as possible.

Vit C is metabolized quickly - as little as an hour, maybe 2 at the most

- so if you are taking C, take it FIRST, then wait 2 hours, and take

your MMS.

Just remember that when you take the Vit C, the last dose of MMS is

terminated.

Other anti-oxidants may take longer to metabolize, so it is probably

best to limit consumption of them when doing the MMS.

Lastly - MMS is NOT a long-term nutritional supplement kind of thing. It

is a TREATMENT. So, it is not something that you should plan on taking

all the time. Once you have achieved the ultimate goal of taking 15

drops 3 x per day for a couple of weeks without nausea, then you should

STOP taking it. Of course, it won't hurt to do it again occasionally,

kind of like a cleanse. In fact, once I've achieved the goal, thats

exactly the way I plan on doing it... maybe once or twice per year I'll

do a short version - maybe start with 5 or more drops, and ramp up much

more quickly until I get to the 15 drops 3 x per day - then just stay at

the max dose for a week, then I'm done.

Of course, it goes without saying that each person should develop their

own system, but the fundamentals apply to everyone.

[Guest guest]

On 9/16/2008, Sauve (moniquesauve@...) wrote:

> is it best to take probiotics while on MMS? if so should they be spaced

> as far away from taking MMS as possible? does MMS kill good bacteria as

> well as bad? should probiotics be taken with food, without? any

> recommendations for brand and dose?

Just use your head. MMS is an extremely powerful oxidant. It will

oxodize a lot of things, both good and bad. Good bugs have more

protection against oxidants, but are not immune.

> does MMS chelate iron from body? if so should iron be taken while on

> MMS? how far apart?

> what about taking supplmts in general on MMS? i know C must be taken at

> least 4 h away. what re other supplmts?

Just don't plan on taking lots of supplements when doing the MMS protocol.

[Guest guest]

hi susan

thanks for the response. can you point me to where it says C is ok 2 h

away from MMS? my friend using it is telling me 4h.

thanks

monique

I have developed yeast issues from the MMS. You should absolutely take

probiotics while on MMS. It does kill both the good and bad bacteria

especially at the higher doses.

The lower doses do not seem to be prone to this problem. Also, you only

need to take the Vit.c 2 hours away from the MMS, not 4. It is o.k. to

swish in mouth.

[Guest guest]

It was in Jim Humble's book part 2 on how to specifically use MMS. There are also several interviews online with him. Maybe you could google them if you need confirmation.

But from what I understand of listening to these interviews is that the MMS does remain in your system working for 12 hours, but only the first two hours is when most of the chemical reactions take place. So after those 2 hours critical hours it is fine to take vit. C. I am probably not relating this well. Maybe one of the other veterans can state this better.

-- [ ] Re: questions

hi susan

thanks for the response. can you point me to where it says C is ok 2 h

away from MMS? my friend using it is telling me 4h.

thanks

monique

I have developed yeast issues from the MMS. You should absolutely take

probiotics while on MMS. It does kill both the good and bad bacteria

especially at the higher doses.

The lower doses do not seem to be prone to this problem. Also, you only

need to take the Vit.c 2 hours away from the MMS, not 4. It is o.k. to

swish in mouth.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

That's about right. But personally I'd wait more than 2 hours before taking C, to give the MMS as much chance as possible to do its job. Actually, it is best to take the C, wait 2 hours (because C rarely stays in the system more than 2 or 3 hours) and then take the MMS rather than the other way around.

If a person is high dosing on C and doesn't want to stop doing that, then the best way is to take the C all day long and stop it about 3 to 4 hours before bed, then take the MMS before bed and give the MMS all night to work. Then you have C working during the day and MMS during the night.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

But from what I understand of listening to these interviews is that the MMS does remain in your system working for 12 hours, but only the first two hours is when most of the chemical reactions take place. So after those 2 hours critical hours it is fine to take vit. C.

[Guest guest]

On 9/17/2008, susan (ssiegel5@...) wrote:

> But from what I understand of listening to these interviews is that

> the MMS does remain in your system working for 12 hours, but only the

> first two hours is when most of the chemical reactions take place. So

> after those 2 hours critical hours it is fine to take vit. C.

That doesn't make sense, but I'm open to being corrected.

MMS' action is an oxidizer.

Anti-oxidants will neutralize oxidants.

So as far as I can see, if you take Vit C (in therapeutic doses), it

will stop the MMS activity at that point.

[Guest guest]

Very well said. Thank you, .

-- Re: [ ] Re: questions

That's about right. But personally I'd wait more than 2 hours before taking C, to give the MMS as much chance as possible to do its job. Actually, it is best to take the C, wait 2 hours (because C rarely stays in the system more than 2 or 3 hours) and then take the MMS rather than the other way around.

If a person is high dosing on C and doesn't want to stop doing that, then the best way is to take the C all day long and stop it about 3 to 4 hours before bed, then take the MMS before bed and give the MMS all night to work. Then you have C working during the day and MMS during the night.

Samala,

-------Original Message-------

But from what I understand of listening to these interviews is that the MMS does remain in your system working for 12 hours, but only the first two hours is when most of the chemical reactions take place. So after those 2 hours critical hours it is fine to take vit. C.

[Guest guest]

,

going over the first few messages I saw on the list ---

reviewing this one, yours from Sept 16:

how can one develop yeast issues from MMS? isn't MMS supposed to get rid

of yeast?

am really curious about this one.

for yeast, I have a suggestion:

I did an article about 4 years ago that strangely enough (2 me, at least)

seems somewhat similar to MMS in a small way. At the time, it was one of

the most powerful health concepts I'd found.

it should kill yeast .

go to:

http://www.dowsers.info/toronto/dec2004.htm

as these publications are real long, search for the

SECOND instance of:

FOCUS ON HEALTH

thanks again!

- Marilyn -

At 08:20 PM 9/16/2008 -0400, susan wrote:

>I have developed yeast issues from the MMS. You should absolutely take

>probiotics while on MMS. It does kill both the good and bad bacteria

>especially at the higher doses.

>The lower doses do not seem to be prone to this problem. Also, you only

>need to take the Vit.c 2 hours away from the MMS, not 4. It is o.k. to

>swish in mouth.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

I have now had 2 sets of Xolair injections. The first was 1/5/09 and

the second 2/2/09. My peak flows in December were running between 350

and 400. The are now 600-650 with a couple at 750. To say that I am

excited is a huge understatement. I did go to the ER after being in an

accident last week and standing on the side of the highway for about an

hour. I live in Alaska and it is still a bit cold up here. Add in the

stress and voila . . . asthma.

My question is this: Is having a tight chest and cough still expected

even when the peak flows are so great? Exercise still hits my

breathing hard, but I hope that will improve as the lungs 'heal' a

bit. Thanks.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Glad it could help.  Re more than one child ... sort of.  My oldest is

Asperger-ish but really I'm beginning to believe that is mostly gone and

behaviors and delayed social skills (definitely not absent) and some negative

social perception are his primary problems remaining.  His CARS rating, done

soon after starting the protocol, was in the middle of moderate to severe

range.  They did it twice, because they were having a hard time believing the

results, even did them with my input removed, because he had already started the

protocol and had improved so drastically. 

My second son started meds at 18 months.  Dr Goldberg always said he would have

been much worse off than his big brother, but I got him off milk by 9 months and

started dropping and delaying vaccines due to severe reactions (screaming 8

hours and seizures after the DTaP and DT, loss of gross motor skills after the

polio).  His labs were a lot worse off than his big brother's, but the triggers

kept him from getting pushed over the edge.  After almost 3 years on meds, he

had been typically developing as far as I could tell, though a bit spacey and

OCD.  But he had pretty typical social skills etc.  We had to stop the protocol

due to sudden financial reasons, and he was still good for about 9 months.  Then

about 3 months after that, he went into a full-blown CFIDS episode, which

improved drastically about 6 months later after spiking 106.9 fever, then fell

back again a few months after that.  During the last two years, he really lost a

lot of ground

and developed obvious cognitive problems, mainly expressive and receptive

language processing and behavioral and social delays.  He started meds again in

September and he is improving, but he has a long ways to go.   I heard later

that it seems the " window " after stopping antivirals is about 9 months. 

Dr G had said that he felt that we had seen what we wanted w/my oldest son (but

he is improving better again now that he's on meds but I couldn't tell he

'needed' them before starting), but he had said that we had not found the

missing piece yet for my youngest.  He was definitely right.  I'm very grateful

that he had the opportunity to be on meds before we ever found out just how sick

he was.  I can't go back and change that he came off the meds - I can only trust

what I've seen them do in the past and hope that we get " it " this time.

That was a lot more than you asked me! lol

________________________________

From: " gvizjazz@... " <gvizjazz@...>

Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2009 11:32:12 AM

Subject: Re: Questions

-Great post and wonderful job of explaining the illness! Do you have

more than one child on the spectrum?

Questions

Im am now learning about NIds. I have ?'s

1. To all the people who child has had a neuro spec scan, what does it show?

2. Do you get all the blood work he suggests 1st and if only they are abnormal

you go see him then?

3. Does the office schdule the scan for you. Can it usually be the same day or

the following. What places did you have the scans done?

4. Im planning for just myself and my son to go b/c of our other child and the

expense b/c we live in Ohio.

Thanks you any input