Re: and furthermore...

[Guest guest]

Davey:

I have sent quite a few e-mails to individuals regarding a plan to try and

obtain a group plan for health insurance for members of LPA. I have never

recieved any feedback from you, and I'm very curious what your thoughts on

the subject are.

Steve

>From: davey lamb <davey_lamb@...>

>Reply-dwarfism

>dwarfism , LPA_Online

>Subject: and furthermore...

>Date: Mon, 15 May 2006 13:04:57 -0700 (PDT)

>

>A few of the criticisms I have received about my campaign statement in LPA

>Today involve it being " all over the map " and at the same time not

>addressing any issues. I apologize for the lack of clarity.

>

> In my original statement to the listserv on April 10th, I was not under

>the constraint of 750 words or less. One of the issues which I edited from

>my LPA Today statement included people with dwarfism in demeaning roles.

>

> I also stated that part of being a leader was to take positions which

>may be unpopular and explain to others why one should support them. I

>understand there are people who do not agree with me. But this is what I

>believe - and one of the reasons I chose to become a candidate for national

>president.

>

> I am strongly opposed to the portrayal of people with short-stature in

>demeaning roles. I'm not talking about whether someone has a right to

>choose certain employment - one does. I'm asking that before one makes

>that choice, to be aware of the negative consequences the choice may have

>on others, others who may not be known and live thousands of miles away.

>For me this is not who we are or who we should be.

>

> It has been mentioned that at least they are working - as if it's an

>either/or proposition. Some say at least they're not on welfare - to which

>I counter, there is nothing wrong with welfare. I would much rather be on

>welfare than to take a job that demeans others.

>

> In the past when I have written posts to the listserv, it's appeared

>that people wanted to see what they chose to see in my views, whether it

>was what I was saying or not. It's sort of " to hell with the facts, this

>is how I want to characterize you. " People will want to see what they want

>to see - but one should sort through what is being said. This is not about

>restricting choices, but being aware of the ramifications of one's choices.

>

> As many of you know, Radio City Music Hall attends the national

>conference. They are at the expo and have taken an ad in the conference

>program. They are at the conference to recruit others to participate in

>their show. The rolls in the show call for one to portray an elf.

>

> The conference review committee is appointed by the national president,

>and I would appoint people who would not sanction such activity. If

>someone wants to participate in the Radio City Music Hall program, that is

>their choice; however, I am against LPA giving its imprimatur to this.

>

> I have spoken to people who have been in the show and have regrets about

>their participation. I remember reading an article about Dinklage in

> " Gentleman's Quarterly " where someone who had appeared in the program came

>up to Dinklage on the street to thank him for his role in " The Station

>Agent. " He expressed his appreciation saying that though he participated

>in the program, he no longer felt consigned to appear in it anymore.

>

> Others have not had qualms about appearing in the show, and is obviously

>their choice. But it is my belief LPA should not promote it.

>

> My opponent told me that my position would attract the support of

>parents of children with dwarfism. For me, this was a good thing. It's

>almost trite to say what we're doing affects the children, but choices have

>an effect on children and adults. We should not abdicate principles that,

>in my opinion, speak to our humanity.

>

> I would hope that you would support and vote for me, but if you choose

>not to because of this, then so be it. I still look forward to having a

>dialogue with my opponent over the issues if she chooses to engage in one.

>If you as readers and members of the list wish to comment, please use the

>dwarfism and LPA lists or contact me privately at daveyolamb@... or via

>my cell phone at 214-629-7876.

>

> Davey Lamb

>

>

>

>

>---------------------------------

>Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just

>2¢/min with Messenger with Voice.

>

>

[Guest guest]

For the sake of list etiquette, I have trimmed some of

the long post, and will respond to the below snips -

“It has been mentioned that at least they are working

- as if it's an either/or proposition. Some say at

least they're not on welfare - to which I counter,

there is nothing wrong with welfare. I would much

rather be on welfare than to take a job that demeans

others.”

“As many of you know, Radio City Music Hall attends

the national conference. They are at the expo and

have taken an ad in the conference program. They are

at the conference to recruit others to participate in

their show. The rolls in the show call for one to

portray an elf.”

“ The conference review committee is appointed by the

national president, and I would appoint people who

would not sanction such activity. If someone wants to

participate in the Radio City Music Hall program, that

is their choice; however, I am against LPA giving its

imprimatur to this.”

“I have spoken to people who have been in the show

and have regrets about their participation. I

remember reading an article about Dinklage in

" Gentleman's Quarterly " where someone who had appeared

in the program came up to Dinklage on the street to

thank him for his role in " The Station Agent. " He

expressed his appreciation saying that though he

participated in the program, he no longer felt

consigned to appear in it anymore.”

“ Others have not had qualms about appearing in the

show, and is obviously their choice. But it is my

belief LPA should not promote it.”

“ My opponent told me that my position would attract

the support of parents of children with dwarfism. For

me, this was a good thing. It's almost trite to say

what we're doing affects the children, but choices

have an effect on children and adults. We should not

abdicate principles that, in my opinion, speak to our

humanity.”

That is the end of my snipping the original message...

(For the record, I am not a member of LPA so I have no

vote in the matter.)

On the surface, what you propose seems innocent.

Radio City Music Hall is not allowed to hold auditions

at the National. Okay. However, if the Metropolitan

Opera Company wants to hold auditions for next

season’s production of “Carmen” at the National, will

they be permitted? No – then we are going with the

“no entertainment is good entertainment” premise,

correct? Then you’d better get rid of the talent show

because it fosters those entertainment dreams and get

to a plan to cover up the fact that the founder of LPA

was (gasp) an entertainer!

If the answer is “Yes” – then you (and/or your select

committee) have set yourselves up as Big Brother…

LPA, under your direction, will determine what is and

what is not a demeaning role/job? Exactly what kind

of self-important people will want to sit on this type

of review committee? Where will the line be drawn?

Will there be a list of approved roles for

entertainers or just go with the simple solution to

ban all entertainers?

To quote you above “I have spoken to people who have

been in the show and have regrets about their

participation.” Most people have done things in life

that they have regretted, if LPA is going to determine

acceptable LP behavior based on regrets… well, I’ll

just let ya’ll chew on that one for a minute.

Getting back to the slippery slope tirade…

What professions fall under scrutiny next? Blue

collar jobs – are those demeaning?

Maybe each member should submit their CV with

membership dues, just to make sure that they are not

doing any demeaning work.

Will there be a financial audit requirement for

membership? I mean, any LP who earns an annual income

that is below the poverty level presents an image to

the entire world that LPs are unable to earn a 6

figure income, and demeans the entire high income LPA

community. LP’s with only a high-school education,

well they should not be permitted in because any LP

who does not pursue post-graduate study demeans those

who have earned an MBA or PhD. Divorced LP’s, well,

you demean those of us with successful marriages.

True, LPA needs to think about the children. Children

who are free to grow up and choose to follow their

dreams, to be a senator or a circus clown. Free of

discrimination, any discrimination – children who are

healthy and self-confident. Children who can - with

the loving support of families, friends, communities

and LPA – be proud of a job well done and do any job

with the highest level of integrity; who gain dignity

from who they are, from their character – instead of

from their job description.

Climbing off my soap box while whispering “the road to

hell is paved with good intentions”.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

VERY WELL SAID!

Alyce

---------------------------------

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

First, BRAVO !

Let me introduce you to one very together young woman who annually

chooses to work for Radio City Music's program

<http://www.kimmay.com/aboutme.html>

I would be extremely proud if this was my daughter. She states on her

website " I dance and do theater when I can. " and Radio City offers her

an honest opportunity to work and an outlet for her creativity. It is

a shame to consider what she and so many other fine upstanding young

members of LPA do for a living as 'demeaning'. This is the 'humanity'

of our members. I can't imagine telling this fine young woman that a

candidate for LPA President considers what she does demeaning and he

would prefer she collect welfare instead. I cannot imagine that any

parent wouldn't look at her and see opportunity for their dwarf child.

Another fine young couple who also choose to sing and dance, will LPA

disapprove of their roles in the Barney Roadshow? How is their choice

to entertain children across the country demeaning to those of us who

do not, or cannot perform in these roles?:

Jen at <http://www.unmerited.com/>

and her husband, <http://www.silentfool.com/>

A quote from his blog " It has been a good three years and something I

wouldn't trade for the world,... "

Would we prefer that they not live the fine lives that they do, but

collect welfare and be forced to live in substandard conditions? Why?

Because LPA is passing judgement on their honest living?

Who are we not to be proud of these members?

What about Seb? Should we shun him also because he's also taken on the

role of an Elf in the Radio City Christmas Spectacular?

<http://www.iamthesebby.com/>

Another fine young man earning an honest living. I doubt he or his

family would appreciate the tone of the message being sent.

Next we will be banning Terra and MiniKiss too?

http://www.terrajole.com/mk.html

I see Klebba has also played the role of

*Small Bill

*Leaperchuan

*Dancing Yosemite Sam

<http://www.martinklebba.com/filmography.htm>

Are we throwing him out also? Shutting the door behind him and anyone

who would emulate him?

Are we as an Organization about to alienate our youth because 'some'

feel that an honest living chosen by fine human beings demeans them?

There are many other routes that one can take that would be demeaning

to an individual, I don't see any of this in the lives of the

aforementioned.

Look at their faces, read about their lives. Read about their

passions. Isn't that the future of LPA? The future of the community.

Isn't that the future we want stepping into our shoes? Leading us into

the future. These are the lives we should be mentoring, not shunning.

I hope the members of this Organization are exercising their freedom

to vote, especially the youth. I hope they are exercising their

freedom to campaign for another candidate that won't restrict their

freedom of choice and close their door of opportunity. I hope their

families are also standing up and exercising their right to vote and

calling other families to do the same.

LPA should ALWAYS be about opening doors, not shutting out opportunity

and honest lives. If we aren't we should begin to look in the mirror

and question our own humanity.

Candidate D. Lamb:

> " My opponent told me that my position would attract

> the support of parents of children with dwarfism. For

> me, this was a good thing. It's almost trite to say

> what we're doing affects the children, but choices

> have an effect on children and adults. We should not

> abdicate principles that, in my opinion, speak to our

> humanity. "

In dwarfism , K McClintock <kage_ar@...> wrote:

> True, LPA needs to think about the children. Children

> who are free to grow up and choose to follow their

> dreams, to be a senator or a circus clown. Free of

> discrimination, any discrimination – children who are

> healthy and self-confident. Children who can - with

> the loving support of families, friends, communities

> and LPA – be proud of a job well done and do any job

> with the highest level of integrity; who gain dignity

> from who they are, from their character – instead of

> from their job description.

[Guest guest]

In my opinion, Radio City isn't really a negative for Dwarfs.

For the most part, the actors are in Snowman costumes, Trees, dancing

bears etc..

Ad yes, Elves. But that said I wouldn't promote it for my own child,

however it's nothing compared to The ADult wearing a Diaper, The

Nacho Man or Hank the Angry Drunk (now Dead) Dwarf.

Or worse the Dwarf tossing participants.

Many of the folks I know that have done Radio City, did it for a few

seasons then paid for college or just experienced the big city. It's

not nearly as bad as some of the other crap out there.

[Guest guest]

Huh? If this is the pathway to the future, a beacon of hope and a model of

acceptance and choices, LPA should be required to open all flood gates for limb

lengthening surgeons to participate in the expo for a mere $500 too.

Re: Re: and furthermore...

In my opinion, Radio City isn't really a negative for Dwarfs.

For the most part, the actors are in Snowman costumes, Trees, dancing

bears etc..

Ad yes, Elves. But that said I wouldn't promote it for my own child,

however it's nothing compared to The ADult wearing a Diaper, The

Nacho Man or Hank the Angry Drunk (now Dead) Dwarf.

Or worse the Dwarf tossing participants.

Many of the folks I know that have done Radio City, did it for a few

seasons then paid for college or just experienced the big city. It's

not nearly as bad as some of the other crap out there.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Now you're mixing bananas and hammers? At least IMHO.

Perhaps a better comparison or question would be 'Will LPA be

accepting participation in the Expo from bars who host dwarf tossing

contests?', agree? And I can see where this would not be sanctioned

based on the fact that it can be detremental to the health of an

individual with dwarfism. I suspect it's not safe for anyone, but I

doubt LPA can carry the banner of protection for all idiots of the

world.

The question might also be 'If a doctor who advocates for limb

lengthening surgery as a height enhancing (cosmetic) alternative for

dwarfs asked to participate in the medical segment of the conference,

would that be accepted?', correct? Although 'I' still believe that it

is a personal choice of the person with dwarfism, I can see how this

would ruffle feathers in the 'community' and cause more static than

LPA might want to take on.

I cannot see how opening the door of opportunity for performers to

meet with representatives from Radio City Music Hall, Disney or the

traveling Barney show can possibly be harmful to the 'humanity' of

those who wish to 'sing and dance'. Or demeaning to me as an individual.

For a while, as this discussion continues, I've been privately

laughing because I 'suspect' that the some who argue against and

support the anti-Radio City & Elf role issue would also cry foul at

the participants of the 'Littlest Groom', as well as the Roloff

reality TV venture. While I may not watch (or have not watched more

than a few minutes of each) either I cannot fathom how anyone can

actually state that either diminishes (sp?) us as a community or as

individuals. I'm not a fan of either or of the genre, but both have

placed those with dwarfism on the map and allowed many who might never

have placed us in the same rhelm of everyday life as any AHs. Every

little bit paves the road towards eventual mainstream acceptance. I

accept that those who have appeared on other 'shows' such as Springer

and acted as fools may be hard to swallow, but again this is their

choice and I've no doubt that I understand that only another fool

would believe that their role playing is for real.

Getting back to the LPA expo issue; I would totally understand if

everyone got their panties in a knot if porno movie directors,

stripper bar owners and/or dwarf tossing establishment owners asked to

participate in the Expo. And I can understand why they would be turned

down, but I'm having a hard time understanding the others.

Lunch is over, time for another lovely meeting.

> Huh? If this is the pathway to the future, a beacon of hope and a

model of acceptance and choices, LPA should be required to open all

flood gates for limb lengthening surgeons to participate in the expo

for a mere $500 too.

>

>

> Re: Re: and furthermore...

>

>

> In my opinion, Radio City isn't really a negative for Dwarfs.

>

> For the most part, the actors are in Snowman costumes, Trees,

dancing bears etc..

>

> Ad yes, Elves. But that said I wouldn't promote it for my own

child, however it's nothing compared to The ADult wearing a Diaper,

The Nacho Man or Hank the Angry Drunk (now Dead) Dwarf.

>

> Or worse the Dwarf tossing participants.

> Many of the folks I know that have done Radio City, did it for a

few seasons then paid for college or just experienced the big city.

It's not nearly as bad as some of the other crap out there.

[Guest guest]

, I thought your kids did the Radio City thing? Or was it some other

show?

Bill

On 5/17/06, WILLIAM AUCOTT <aucott1@...> wrote:

>

> Huh? If this is the pathway to the future, a beacon of hope and a model

> of acceptance and choices, LPA should be required to open all flood gates

> for limb lengthening surgeons to participate in the expo for a mere $500

> too.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, I think that the leg lengthening doctors should be charged a lot more than

the $500... They make a huge amount of money each time they do one of these

procedures. Bigger than anyone can imagine! Maybe LPA is short changing

themselves....?

I am NOT running for any of the offices however, If I was running, this very

subject would be on my agenda to up the money from medical VENDORS OR

PROFESSIONALS AND LOWER THE MONEY FOR LP'S HELPING LP'S in their lifestyles.

XXX OOO

Gogin

Re: Re: and furthermore...

>

>Huh? If this is the pathway to the future, a beacon of hope and a model of

acceptance and choices, LPA should be required to open all flood gates for limb

lengthening surgeons to participate in the expo for a mere $500 too.

>

>

> Re: Re: and furthermore...

>

>

> In my opinion, Radio City isn't really a negative for Dwarfs.

>

> For the most part, the actors are in Snowman costumes, Trees, dancing

> bears etc..

>

> Ad yes, Elves. But that said I wouldn't promote it for my own child,

> however it's nothing compared to The ADult wearing a Diaper, The

> Nacho Man or Hank the Angry Drunk (now Dead) Dwarf.

>

> Or worse the Dwarf tossing participants.

> Many of the folks I know that have done Radio City, did it for a few

> seasons then paid for college or just experienced the big city. It's

> not nearly as bad as some of the other crap out there.

>

>

[Guest guest]

mare,

thank you - i'm crying - i love you.

davey

[Guest guest]

Yes. It's some other show, Bill. My kids have been involved with entertainment

for a number of years. They have worked with Dinklage in a live stage

production and a TV pilot designed to raise self-esteem, inspire confidence,

stimulate creativity and teach valuable lessons. It's goal is to reinforce and

dramatize the positive value of human diversity in an entertaining and affective

way that kids can understand and relate to. It's all about song and dance,

exchanging ideas and showcasing ways of empowering the audience to encourage

acceptance, cooperation, creativity, literacy, unity and respect for one another

and the environment. It's full of powerful messages with my kids promoting

audience participation throughout the performance. My youngest son Mathew has

achondroplasia, high-functioning autism and hyperlexia -- he's an obsessive

reader making the literacy portion of the show an empowering experience for him.

My kids have not worked for Radio City Music Hall. For many years, they spent

the holiday season making wholesome Yuletide appearances with different

headliners at the Tropicana Casino & Resort in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Based

on my recommendations to go against predictability, the writers and producers

appropriately cast my kids, as kids. Appearing in scenes with elves portrayed

by average size children, had a positive and powerful impact that is akin to

Dinklage's role in the movie Elf. Each show closed with the true message

of Christmas, the holy birth of Jesus Christ. East element of a Renaissance

nativity painting came together with people of all sizes, shapes and colors.

Quite a remarkable experience.

My kids also participated in an annual live production staged at the Hilton

Casino & Resort called " In All His Glory " , an emotional story of God's love for

his people. It's a top-quality live theatrical production that realistically

recreates the true story of Easter, the events of passion week -- the palm

Sunday procession, last supper, trial, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension

of Jesus Christ.

Performance art has empowered my kids with opportunities for positive and

creative self expression. It's built self-esteem and leadership abilities.

It's helped my kids make wise choices in friends and life-style.

My kids have never portrayed elves or costumed characters, Bill. This range of

limitations theory amuses me and enrages me. It's a powerful and influential

factor that my family would like to see broadened. I would prefer a credible

advocacy organization over a friendship club. That's why my family is strongly

endorsing Davey Lamb for President.

Thanks for asking. I'm glad we cleared this up.

Re: Re: and furthermore...

, I thought your kids did the Radio City thing? Or was it some other

show?

Bill

On 5/17/06, WILLIAM AUCOTT <aucott1@...<mailto:aucott1@...>> wrote:

>

> Huh? If this is the pathway to the future, a beacon of hope and a model

> of acceptance and choices, LPA should be required to open all flood gates

> for limb lengthening surgeons to participate in the expo for a mere $500

> too.

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I have to respond to some of your points...

My kids have never portrayed elves or costumed characters, Bill. This range

> of limitations theory amuses me and enrages me. It's a powerful and

> influential factor that my family would like to see broadened.

I agree, roles for dwarfs in the entertainment industry should be

broadened. But I don't see Radio City's production as demeaning in any

way. It's certainly a far cry from midget wrestling, dwarf tossing, or

pornos. I've seen far too many LPs on welfare or unemployment to criticize

anyone for their choice in feeding their kids, and putting a roof over their

heads. Also, I think the shows your kids are doing are great. As a

Christian, however, I find it somewhat ironic they're being performed in a

casino. But I guess Jesus hung out with prostitutes, tax collectors and

lawyers, so who am I to judge? ;-) It's also nice you were in a positon

have creative control over the production. Some LPs don't have that option.

I would prefer a credible advocacy organization over a friendship

> club. That's why my family is strongly endorsing Davey Lamb for President.

Advocacy would be nice. It is important. However, this may not be role LPA

is prepared (yet) to embrace. LPA's greatest contributions to dwarfs, in my

opinion have been 1) medical resources, 2) support for parents of newborn

dwarfs, 3) the adoption committee, 4) and the SOCIAL networks developed at

regional and national conferences. You call it a friendship club, but I

think 90% of LPA would agree if there weren't a social aspect to LPA, then

they would not go to the conferences. I met my wife through LPA. I have

great step kids because of LPA (and now grandkids). I've had great medical

advice and references through the LPA MAB. I've met many friends through

LPA (including your family). Also, my brother, as he said, learned job

skills, educational opportunities, and how to fly a plane (from meeting Lee

Kitchens) all because of LPA. I would prefer to keep the " friendship club "

and WOULD NOT vote for any candidate that threatened that aspect of LPA.

Your kids will feel the same when they are old enough to date.

I'm not saying LPA can't and shouldn't expand into that role. But not at

the sacrifice of what makes it the great organization that it is.

Thanks for asking. I'm glad we cleared this up.

>

>

You're welcome.

Bill

" There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going

all the way, and not starting. "

(Buddha)

" You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. "

( 8:32)

[Guest guest]

>4) and the SOCIAL networks developed at regional and national

conferences. You call it a friendship club, but I think 90% of LPA

would agree if there weren't a social aspect to LPA, then they would

not go to the conferences.<

For those of us who spent an entire life being 'the only one', LPA

assists in filling a void. I didn't mature in a family who looked like

me, who understood what it was to walk in my shoes. While advocacy is

something we should continue to focus on (and we do on a limited

basis), it would be a severe mistake to diminish the social

(friendship club) aspects of LPA. And as one those of us who

appreciate it's 'friendship club', I would be very disappointed to see

this Organization retract one of it's greatest offerings.

Advocacy also requires a lot of time and more financial support than

LPA presently has. While Roloff and I can strongly disagree on so many

points we can both see (I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong) this

clearly; LPA's biggest hurdle for growth is rooted in it's lack of

finance and support of full time employees dedicated to a mission that

serves the interest of the many. Financially supported so that they

can reach out into the community and assess what are the needs and not

base it on their small cohort of agreeable friends.

Anyone in the position of leadership should not be advocated for their

own beliefs, using their power to correct the wrongs based on their

own judgement. Advocacy for such a diverse membership requires an

individual who can see past their own opinions and seek those of

others with differing opinions. One who can accept that they are not

always right or above being wrong. Someone who can walk among the

wildflowers and appreciate their beauty when compared to that of an

exotic hothouse bred orchid.

I am forever grateful (and sometimes even in awe) to those who do

dedicate their personal time to serve LPA. Life these days is a fast

track for many of us and trying to squeeze in time for volunteering

doesn't happen easily. I have to give credit to Lois (Gerage-Lamb) who

has dedicated so many years to the mission of LPA. Lois has been with

LPA through many years of growth and some of turmoil. She has been a

steady anchor during times of unsteady seas. Her dedication to the

scholarship efforts should be applauded, she performs her duties and

pride of a well done job can be seen on her face during the award

phase of the annual dinner. She doesn't demand public acknowledgment

for all of her dedication and she certainly deserves a strong round of

applause. She brings forth to the leadership table an understanding of

the Organization and it's history, as well as an appreciation for it's

membership and it's mission.

>I met my wife through LPA.<

Until the Internet grew to it's present maturity I'm sure LPA was (and

may still be for some) the vehicle for socializing that results in

relationships. While I may have had much more success with those that

I've met outside of the LPA circle, I am appreciative of the many

stories that I've either heard or read of those who have met through

the organization's social gatherings.

>I would prefer to keep the " friendship club " and WOULD NOT vote for

any candidate that threatened that aspect of LPA.<

Interesting. As a newcomer to LPA (only 6 years) I was also looking

for an organization with more 'tooth' to it, but as the years have

passed and I've met so many from the community I've come to appreciate

it's social aspects. And I can fully recognize how it plays such a

powerful role in it's member's lives. We are so few and scattered all

over the world, if it wasn't for LPA gatherings we'd never get to meet.

It is hard to believe that anyone who has been around LPA and it's

members would consider changing it so far as to eradicate the

friendship aspect that accounts for it's successful Conferences and

regionals.

We have so much in common with some and evidently are planets away in

opinions from others.

Anywho, the storm has arrived after yesterday's beautiful sunny day,

time to learn to appreciate the rain needed for those aforementioned

wildflowers to grow.