AP/LP relationships

[Guest guest]

Normally, I don't get involved with all the chit chat, bashing, or

whatever you want to call it that takes place on this list. I have enough to

deal

with in my life ( two teenagers (lp's), a husband (lp), job, church, pets,

house,

aging parents, etc.) that who does what in our society isn't very important

to me. I also know that it's very wise not to give someone your opinion unless

they ask for it. Opinions are like rear ends, we all have one and we don't

need somebody elses unless we ask for it, or they plan to support us with

theirs.

Did anyone stop to think that maybe Matt is using his own personal

dating/relationship lifetime experiences in urging Zach to meet lp girls at an

LPA

function. I do the same thing. How often do these events take place? A few

times a year, who's to say who he encourages him to meet the rest of the year.

All

we are seeing is a brief glimpse into their lives and what the ediitors are

wanting us to see. Knowing Matt as I do, I'm sure if a nice looking, sweet,

sincere young lady crossed paths with Zach, Matt would be there encourageing him

to interact with her too. If he only encourages lp's, then thats his right as

a parent to do what he thinks is best.

Nothing aggravates me more then to take my daughters to a LPA

meeting/event and for them to come home mad because they didn't meet anyone,

etc. Not

because they didn't want to, but they made goofy choices in trying to catch up

on

their sleep (Hello, I'm spending a $100 a night for this hotel room to bring

you here, you can sleep on the way back or at home), acting shy (not my

kids), or only hanging out with their already established friends. I'm like,

where

else are you going to be able to meet such a variety of dwarf boys? Wake up

and smell the coffee! I don't push them to make a relationship, but this is the

best time and place to meet new people and I think thats what Matt was doing.

Our kids live in the AP world the rest of the time, and they don't need to

feel like they have to settle for anyone that pays them the least bit of

attention just to fit in and be like their friends. They need to have choices

and

opportunities to explore those choices. I do prefer that mine are with an lp

just

because it's easier and you already share a common bond, especially at their

age (16 and17). I don't think teenagers and even most young adults are mature

enough to handle the stress, our sometimes cruel society, and the differences

that a AP/LP relationship has. We have enough challanges and hardships in

life already. I'm okay with them seeing an AP now if it's someone they've known

for a long time and we as a family agree that this is sincere and not some sick

joke or contest. If not, I hope they wait till their older, out of school,

etc.

I think we should give this family the benefit of the doubt and support

them on what a great job their doing raising four kids in todays society. It

ain't easy, and as his parents they feel Zach's life would be less complicated

with a dwarf girlfriend, then who are we to judge. He's their child, not ours.

My Two Cents,

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Bill:

While I totally agree that it is somewhat (not far, far, far) easier

to date interspatially if you're a LP woman than if you're a LP man,

that doesn't excuse the persistent image/notion that we must stick with

" our own kind. "

>Unfortunately, this society dictates that a woman must be shorter than

>a man.

Because this is true, I sometimes wonder if, because of society's

training, LP men subconsciously need a woman to be shorter than they are

that they limit themselves to LP women?

Lots of the great social changes have come about because someone

DEMANDED a new paradigm. ( Parks wouldn't move back,

Blackwell practiced medicine in spite of opposition, Jackie

kept playing great baseball, etc.).

If LPs (men and women) continue to limit themselves it's a sure bet

that the rest of the world will continue to limit them too. It also

doesn't help when the LP community is so cold and unwelcoming to our AP

spouses/significant others (my own personal experience), that smells an

awful lot like bigotry and it isn't pretty to see in a population who

keeps yelling " we're just like you, give us respect and see us as human

beings. " You have to give it to get it.

I know all this seems like a tempest in a teapot, but it's because of

the cold treatment we and our AP spouses often face in LPA, that this is

such a sore spot.

-marty (the lady one)

>>> tslug1@... 03/22/06 2:07 PM >>>

Thank-you Aurora! Well said! This is all much ado about nothing.

Folks, THIS IS A REALITY SHOW. The produces are going to edit in a

manner

that makes it seem much, much, much, more controversial than it really

is.

Look, Matt and I have had out issues, and I don't think he's a saint by

any

means. BUT CUT HIM SOME SLACK!!! He did nothing out of the ordinary

for

for any father. I dated a gal when I was 14 (she was an LP I met at

summer

camp, and the date consisted of nothing more than holding hands and a

few

stolen kisses during a hay ride), but I'm sure if it was videotaped

back

then (when the dinosaurs still roamed the earth), they could have

edited it

to make me look like some raving pervert.

And one other issue: most of the people who have been posting have

been

women, and wonder why Matt is pushing his son to date an LP. I hate

burst

your collective bubbles, but that fact of the matter is that it is far,

far,

far, easier for an LP woman to date an AP man than vice versa. I'm

not

saying that LP men never date an AP woman (I have myself), but that is

the

exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, this society dictates

that a

woman must be shorter than a man. Even within AP circles, woman are

looking

for a man taller then herself, and couples in which the woman is taller

than

the man are often a source of ridicule. And unfortunately, I've seen

this

behavior manifest at LPA conferences too. In high school, this is even

more

exagerrated. God forbid a teenage girl date a nerd, much less a

dwarf!!!

I know a lot of you are going to scream and shout and point out the

error of

my ways. Flame away! I could probably prove this statistically if I

had

to.

Have a nice day.

-Bill

On 3/21/06, aurora crutchfield <liteapple2000@...> wrote:

>

> Funny you all think that way, I just thought that Matt was a being a

dad

> teaching his son social behavior like many other fathers do. I never

saw

> what you all see about limiting Zach to dating LPs only....hmmmm I

can see

> Zach marrying any girl he falls in love with, he is a cutie and has a

great

> personality! any teenage hearthrob can surely testify to that! Little

person

> or not! LOL!!

>

> Maybe is the grandma in me who sees that!

>

> <kam1741@...> wrote:

> Thanks for saying that. All this talk about pushing Zach to be

with

> a girl but I thought the more important point of it all was

> essentially saying LPs are the ONLY suitable girl or even the only

> girl that will have him. That is what I found so disturbing. I know

> Zach said he could only imagine marrying an LP but do you suppose

> that's because he's getting a very clear message at home about who

> would be acceptable for him to marry???

>

>

>

>

> > I have not been blessed to see the Roloffs, as I do not have

> > cable, although I certainly would if I could though. However, I

> > have now been approached twice by an acquaintance, a doctor,

> > and a total stranger. All three were/are very impressed with the

> > series and what they are learning they said, yet all three touched

> > on this one part they did not like at all. Apparently there is a

> part

> > of

> > one segment which showed Matt and Zach at a LPA Convention

> > I am assuming, and Matt was on Zach, making comments such

> > as if he did not go in there and get a girl, he NEVER would

> anywhere

> > else,

> > and said that only through LPA functions could Zach ever find a

> girl of

> > his own. They all three stated Matt kept riding Zach and pushing

> him in

> > a very overbearing way.

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> >

> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Being an armchair pop phychology major... if an LP has

LP/LP parents, I'd think they would be more likely to

see themselves dating/married to an LP - if they are

the child of an LP/AP couple, they will be more likely

to date/marry an AP (my LP/AP family tree bears this

out...)

For those 1st generation LPs, it may have to do with

the parents and level of involvment with LPA...

For the record, I did NOT stay in a holiday inn

express last night

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Martha (Marty),

First off, let me say that it is shame you and your husband get bad

treatment from the LPA community. It does smack of bigotry. I have no

problems with " interspatial dating " (interesting term), and have dated AP

women. If you want to look at an example of true love, just look at

and Neil Pratt. But, it's a sad reality that most (not all) women want men

taller than themselves. I've even seen it happen in LPA. I once had to get

on my own daughter, who is 3'11'' from turning down a guy because he was

only 3'6''. And it had nothing to do with his personality -- just his

size. That is plain wrong. Also my daughter got into a relationship with

an AP man who only wanted to date her because she " reminded him of a hobbit "

and he ended up very abusive (he used his size to physically control her).

She is now with an AP man who seems very kind, caring, and sensitive, and I

don't have a problem with that.

But if bet if we did a survey, the number of LP women married to AP men,

compared to LP men married to AP women, would be about 10 to 1. Now I know

a lot of you LP women out there are going to email and tell me how shunned

you were in high school because of your size (I'm not saying adolescence was

easy for any LP, regardless of gender). And as a former list moderator, I

know there is a substantial number of AP men out there, lurking on this

list, who want to date an LP woman due to some sort of perverted fascination

(or a dominance and control issue). Likewise, I know a number of LP men who

think they " hit the jackpot " when they score with an AP woman. True love

should see no size, color, or physical difference in the other.

Now, as I advance into middle age, my personal preference is LP women.

Mainly because there's an immediate shortcut to mutual understanding of what

it is like to be a dwarf -- no period of awkward adjustment, nor any awkward

moments with friends and relatives who " wonder why you're dating a dwarf. "

That wouldn't preclude me from dating an AP woman, but it is more difficult.

I don't think LPA or parents of LPs are socializing their men to only seek

out " their own kind. " In reality, counting conventions, regionals and

chapter meeting, LP men only spend about a total of two weeks a year

socializing with LP women. But continual rejection in the " big " world

forces many LP men to withdraw from the dating scene, and when they do " go

back on the market " they " seek out their own kind. " I hope there comes a

day when size doesn't matter. But for now, Madison Avenue, MTV, and

Hollywood are telling our kids that tall, athletic men, and bond-haired, big

boobed, Barbie dolls are the only criteria for love. (Unless you got

boatloads of cash, then even a nerd like or Bill Gates can get

lucky).

Take care,

Bill

On 3/22/06, Martha -Merritts <medavis@...> wrote:

>

> Bill:

>

> While I totally agree that it is somewhat (not far, far, far) easier

> to date interspatially if you're a LP woman than if you're a LP man,

> that doesn't excuse the persistent image/notion that we must stick with

> " our own kind. "

>

> >Unfortunately, this society dictates that a woman must be shorter than

> >a man.

> Because this is true, I sometimes wonder if, because of society's

> training, LP men subconsciously need a woman to be shorter than they are

> that they limit themselves to LP women?

>

> Lots of the great social changes have come about because someone

> DEMANDED a new paradigm. ( Parks wouldn't move back,

> Blackwell practiced medicine in spite of opposition, Jackie

> kept playing great baseball, etc.).

>

> If LPs (men and women) continue to limit themselves it's a sure bet

> that the rest of the world will continue to limit them too. It also

> doesn't help when the LP community is so cold and unwelcoming to our AP

> spouses/significant others (my own personal experience), that smells an

> awful lot like bigotry and it isn't pretty to see in a population who

> keeps yelling " we're just like you, give us respect and see us as human

> beings. " You have to give it to get it.

>

> I know all this seems like a tempest in a teapot, but it's because of

> the cold treatment we and our AP spouses often face in LPA, that this is

> such a sore spot.

>

> -marty (the lady one)

>

> >>> tslug1@... 03/22/06 2:07 PM >>>

> Thank-you Aurora! Well said! This is all much ado about nothing.

>

> Folks, THIS IS A REALITY SHOW. The produces are going to edit in a

> manner

> that makes it seem much, much, much, more controversial than it really

> is.

> Look, Matt and I have had out issues, and I don't think he's a saint by

> any

> means. BUT CUT HIM SOME SLACK!!! He did nothing out of the ordinary

> for

> for any father. I dated a gal when I was 14 (she was an LP I met at

> summer

> camp, and the date consisted of nothing more than holding hands and a

> few

> stolen kisses during a hay ride), but I'm sure if it was videotaped

> back

> then (when the dinosaurs still roamed the earth), they could have

> edited it

> to make me look like some raving pervert.

>

> And one other issue: most of the people who have been posting have

> been

> women, and wonder why Matt is pushing his son to date an LP. I hate

> burst

> your collective bubbles, but that fact of the matter is that it is far,

> far,

> far, easier for an LP woman to date an AP man than vice versa. I'm

> not

> saying that LP men never date an AP woman (I have myself), but that is

> the

> exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, this society dictates

> that a

> woman must be shorter than a man. Even within AP circles, woman are

> looking

> for a man taller then herself, and couples in which the woman is taller

> than

> the man are often a source of ridicule. And unfortunately, I've seen

> this

> behavior manifest at LPA conferences too. In high school, this is even

> more

> exagerrated. God forbid a teenage girl date a nerd, much less a

> dwarf!!!

>

> I know a lot of you are going to scream and shout and point out the

> error of

> my ways. Flame away! I could probably prove this statistically if I

> had

> to.

>

> Have a nice day.

> -Bill

>

> On 3/21/06, aurora crutchfield <liteapple2000@...> wrote:

> >

> > Funny you all think that way, I just thought that Matt was a being a

> dad

> > teaching his son social behavior like many other fathers do. I never

> saw

> > what you all see about limiting Zach to dating LPs only....hmmmm I

> can see

> > Zach marrying any girl he falls in love with, he is a cutie and has a

> great

> > personality! any teenage hearthrob can surely testify to that! Little

> person

> > or not! LOL!!

> >

> > Maybe is the grandma in me who sees that!

> >

> > <kam1741@...> wrote:

> > Thanks for saying that. All this talk about pushing Zach to be

> with

> > a girl but I thought the more important point of it all was

> > essentially saying LPs are the ONLY suitable girl or even the only

> > girl that will have him. That is what I found so disturbing. I know

> > Zach said he could only imagine marrying an LP but do you suppose

> > that's because he's getting a very clear message at home about who

> > would be acceptable for him to marry???

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > I have not been blessed to see the Roloffs, as I do not have

> > > cable, although I certainly would if I could though. However, I

> > > have now been approached twice by an acquaintance, a doctor,

> > > and a total stranger. All three were/are very impressed with the

> > > series and what they are learning they said, yet all three touched

> > > on this one part they did not like at all. Apparently there is a

> > part

> > > of

> > > one segment which showed Matt and Zach at a LPA Convention

> > > I am assuming, and Matt was on Zach, making comments such

> > > as if he did not go in there and get a girl, he NEVER would

> > anywhere

> > > else,

> > > and said that only through LPA functions could Zach ever find a

> > girl of

> > > his own. They all three stated Matt kept riding Zach and pushing

> > him in

> > > a very overbearing way.

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > >

> > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

> > > > I have not been blessed to see the Roloffs, as I do not

have

> > > > cable, although I certainly would if I could though.

However, I

> > > > have now been approached twice by an acquaintance, a doctor,

> > > > and a total stranger. All three were/are very impressed with

the

> > > > series and what they are learning they said, yet all three

touched

> > > > on this one part they did not like at all. Apparently there

is a

> > > part

> > > > of

> > > > one segment which showed Matt and Zach at a LPA Convention

> > > > I am assuming, and Matt was on Zach, making comments such

> > > > as if he did not go in there and get a girl, he NEVER would

> > > anywhere

> > > > else,

> > > > and said that only through LPA functions could Zach ever

find a

> > > girl of

> > > > his own. They all three stated Matt kept riding Zach and

pushing

> > > him in

> > > > a very overbearing way.

> > > >

> > > > ---------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Growing up, I thought my marriage possibilities were 50-50 - and I don't mean

LP/AP. I never thought marriage would be an overriding priority - if I met

someone I wanted to marry, fine, if not, fine.

I have no idea if this is because I am an LP, because I grew up in the 70s,

because there's a lot of divorce in my family, or just because I never felt

incomplete as " just me. " Marty, there's probably some great psychology in

there! :-)

As my peers settled down with mates, my feelings did not really change - if I

met Mr. Wonderful, okay, if not, my life is still full.

I had contact with LPA on and off, and truthfully, finding a mate there was

the last thing on my mind, since the young men I met there were generally so

paranoid that every short woman in America was after them that I found it

disgusting. Like, can't I say hello without you thinking I'm trying to drag you

to the altar???

I joined this list back when it started to meet other LPs, with the thought of

finding " a guy " the LAST thing on my mind. Imagine my surprise when I met one!

I don't think we get along because we are both LP, although there is definitely

a convenience about having similar experiences that we don't have to explain. I

think we get along because we look at life in similar ways, have similar values,

etc. I think anyone who thinks " Well, it will work because we're both LP " is

headed for a lot of heartache, because that by itself is not enough to build a

relationship on.

My advice to those who are looking for Mr./Ms. Wonderful: LOVE yourself and

BE yourself. Don't think someone else can make you whole, and don't pretend to

be something you're not. And don't worry about the LP/AP thing. Whether a

potential mate loves you, respects you, and treats you decently has very little

to do with that.

Alyce

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

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[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Martha,

If you read my e-mail you'd see that I and I can say

others that I know are not limiting ourselves, tall

men are the ones limiting THEMSELVES. They want women

they can parade around their friends, like caveman

days, just hit me over the head with a club. Yes I'd

prefer to date an lp man for the reasons Bill listed,

however if I met a tall man and he wasn't a perv and

we got along then I'd say yes there as well.

Speaking of tall men Bill lol about tall men on here,

said he's 5'10 and gave his number

That I do have an issue with, I will not date any ap

man specifically looking for an lp. Ya I like Italians

but I am not going to join listserves looking for

them, that I find absolutely weird. Note to you tall

guy lurkers on here, us women maybe single but we are

not desperate!

-

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

:

Very true! Just lucky my biggie guy didn't limit himself!

;-)

-marty (the lady one)

>If you read my e-mail you'd see that I and I can say

>others that I know are not limiting ourselves, tall

>men are the ones limiting THEMSELVES.

**********************************************************

Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used

for urgent or sensitive issues.

[Guest guest]

One thing I have noticed is that this occurs in a lot of places.

People in certain communities block out others that do not have the

similarities they do in the group. This includes LP's, Deaf people,

Asians, African Americans, Hispanics and even Red Heads... among

others. If an average height white male with brown hair joins a group

that is not representative of who he is on the outside, people assume

what is on the inside, instead of getting to know the truth.

I will use a Deaf friend of mine for another example. She went out

with a Deaf guy... they had ups and downs, but many more downs then

ups. She got pregnant and then married him. Unfortunately, she lost

the baby. The only reason they got married was due to the baby, yet

they stayed married after and she got pregnant again. They had many

more downs... she was always upset about one thing or another... he

always saying to her that he would change. Finally they separated and

she has a hearing boyfriend... she told me that she never thought she

would be able to have a positive/healthy relationship with a hearing

guy and she just went with this Deaf guy because he was the same as

her... Deaf. Part of it I feel is the Deaf community separating

themselves from the Hearing world.

That is similar thinking I see at times in the LP community... LP's

not thinking they can have a relationship with an AP because AP's

wouldn't be interested in an LP and if they are that there is

something wrong with the AP. I think it is mostly the latter... why

would an AP male be interested in finding an LP female and only an LP

female?

Reality Speaks: In your case, if I read it correctly, you are are

attracted to LP's. Yes, people do have certain things that they will

find attractive... but you are doing what you say you are against.

You are focusing on one culture and not others. You are trying to

find someone based on what is on the outside... you are not looking

for what is on the inside.

Wanting to go to an LPA convention to meet a mate? That is not the

place or time for it. A dating website or group is. However, I look

at rules some places like Date A Little have as good & bad. The rule

is nobody over 4' 10 " allowed to join... It does keep those with an

unhealthy " fetish " out... but also keeps those that are just wanting

to truly meet Mr./Mrs. Right no matter who/where they may be out as

well. One never knows where their soul mate may pop up... could an LP

& AP be soul mates? Of course... but if one is always on the search

for a specific body type, they will be lonely for a longer time.

Dave

On Mar 23, 2006, at 2:06 AM, Reality Speaks wrote:

> I'm an AP with what I feel is a sincere attraction to .........

[Guest guest]

That was one of the most profound statements i have ever heard someone

say regarding prejudice. I completely agree with every word that was

written. I feel that as humans we tend to create these walls around us

in order to make us feel more comfortable about our differences and

personal insecurities. Whether that means that we only date within our

race or shun and ridicule people that are of different stature than

us. Whether short or over weight. Its still ridiculous. We all breathe

the same air and die eventually. True based on background and personal

experience we may have different preferences but thats just a

preference. It shouldnt be a crutch for anyone to attempt to validate

their personal bias. I am a black male that stands at 4'10 " . Im a

minority. As such i have to face a multitude of obstacles and having

someone reject me because of my height isnt a concept im willing to

grasp. I have dated outside my race many times and my current love

interest is 5'6 " and one of the most beautiful people myself or

anyone else in the MD/DC area has laid eyes on. The only thing i can

attribute this to is that when i wake up in the morning and look in

the mirror i see me and when i go out into the world i make the world

see me not my height or my race.

[Guest guest]

4foot9 but thanks anyway. I just look taller because I wear vertical

stripes alot LOL

Hope

>

> If I recall, , aren't you over 5 feet tall?

[Guest guest]

Microphile is not a very dscriptive word as it applies to short people.

Micro is from the Greek, mikros, meaning " small. "

Phile is from the Greek, philia, or philos, meanining " to love " or

" beloved. "

So a " microphile " would be a lover of all small things (not just people).

Just as an Anglophile would be a lover all things Anglican (including Fred).

I think someone who fixates on a person solely due to their size is a

bigot. We did have a guy once who used to crash LPA events, his nickname

was " Tall Tom. " As you can tell by his nickname he was an AP, although I

think he was only 5'3 " or 5'4 " . In any case, he had a perverted fascination

for slow dancing with LP women, dancing with their cheeks to his

you-know-what. He eventually was booted from LPA conferences.

-Bill

On 3/26/06, Hope <handsome_little_guy@...> wrote:

>

> 4foot9 but thanks anyway. I just look taller because I wear vertical

> stripes alot LOL

> Hope

>

> >

> > If I recall, , aren't you over 5 feet tall?

>

>

>

>

>

> ===

>