JUST IN GENERAL...

[Guest guest]

Ok folks...

I being nice to not say anything about the subject of M vs N

word. I am " TRYING " to keep myself calm. Unless you have LIVED in a "

AFRICAN-AMERICAN SHOES " , and have been called everything under the sun

including your name, then I would like to see this subject dropped from

the list. A couple people e-mail me privately and are waiting for me to

go " POSTAL " . I will not do that unless it's necessary. So please,

change the subject and move on.

Butch

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[Guest guest]

You're right. Sooo many times we-the little people, and many other

groups of people for that matter too, be them handicapped or just

another minority living amongst the majority, use the N word as their

torch also to be seen and heard for what they may have gone through.

Or they use it for " comparison " as to what the African Americans have

really gone through and continue to go through, I must add. The sad

part is this, if we-the non African Americans only knew what African

Americans have lived through first hand and even to this day, I don't

think any of us would use them and the derogatory word used against

them as a torch for our cause and/or as a comparison, because in

reality the comparison is NOT even close.

Another funny thing is that many of us, the non African Americans of

gets upset... hmmm... say... when Al Sharpton (using him here as an

example only), uses the " race card " as we like to sometimes call it,

in his platform or talks to get our attention and/or to move us, but

has any of us ever thought of this? We, the non African American are

doing the same? Ironic, huh? Perhaps we use it even more so? But we

continue to blame Sharpton, or Young for using it when we in

reality we use it every time we get the chance, like with the M-word

issue for example. Sadly, a FREQUENT issue amongst us.

Thus, if we're against using the M-word, why can't we leave the

African Americans out of it by saying we just hate the word and the

use of it. In other words, to us, the usage of the M-word disturbs

us! If not, why not?

luv, grady, and as always, my opinions only.

Don't think like me, think for yourself. It's more rewarding:).

Otherwise, if you're gonna think like me because you're too afraid

think for yourself for fear of what your clique, groupies or friends

may think of you for thinking outside of their box, I, unlike them

will CHARGE you a royalty for every thought, word or idea that comes

out of your mouth that even remotely resembles mine! - a gradyism

....Unless you have LIVED in a " AFRICAN-AMERICAN SHOES " , and have been

called everything under the sun including your name, then I would

like to see this subject dropped from the list.

[Guest guest]

With all due respect to Butch, whom I count as a friend in LPA and value his

opinion, I take issue with concept that only another African American can truly

sympathize with the tribulations African Americans have gone through; and that

we shouldn't use the N-word as a comparison to the M-word unless we can

sympathize.

If any single group of non-African American people could understand that level

of racism and discrimination, doesn't it likely that it would be people with

dwarfism? Consider this:

- People base their first impression of us on our height, not our personalities,

education, social status, clothing, etc.

- People point, stare, whisper at us, especially behind our backs

- Often we are not taken seriously when: applying for jobs, attending school,

shopping, running for public office, etc.

- Some ethnic groups consider us oddities and not quite human

- When I get on a bus or subway, all conversations cease, and there is a

noticable uncomfortable silence

- In movies and on television we are often typecast in comedic or pathetic roles

and not allowed leading man/woman or romantic parts

- While we don't have the historical backround of bondage and slavery, until the

modern age, dwarves could not hold real jobs, attend college, and were relegated

to the realm of freak shows and court jesters.

-Kooks, knuckleheads, and bleeding heart do-gooders want to be our " friend "

because we are different

- Drunks, the ingorant, and people like Jimmy Kimmel take great pleasure in

making us the butt of their jokes

- Our biggest struggle (non-medical) is for respect

While it would be impossible for anyone to completely understand what it is like

to walk in someone else's shoes, I do think we can draw some inferences based on

our own experience. And one disadvantage little people have that other ethnic

groups do not have is that we are truly in the minority. Unlike blacks,

hispanics or Asians for example, little people don't have a " neighborhood " or

community of their own to live in. In fact, most little people are the only

ones in their family (as children) and don't even have a house full of their

own.

No, we'll never truly grasp slavery, or violent racism, but we do understand

what it is like to be outsiders; marginalized from the mainstream. And there

we find our common ground.

Bill

-------------- Original message --------------

You're right. Sooo many times we-the little people, and many other

groups of people for that matter too, be them handicapped or just

another minority living amongst the majority, use the N word as their

torch also to be seen and heard for what they may have gone through.

Or they use it for " comparison " as to what the African Americans have

really gone through and continue to go through, I must add. The sad

part is this, if we-the non African Americans only knew what African

Americans have lived through first hand and even to this day, I don't

think any of us would use them and the derogatory word used against

them as a torch for our cause and/or as a comparison, because in

reality the comparison is NOT even close.

Another funny thing is that many of us, the non African Americans of

gets upset... hmmm... say... when Al Sharpton (using him here as an

example only), uses the " race card " as we like to sometimes call it,

in his platform or talks to get our attention and/or to move us, but

has any of us ever thought of this? We, the non African American are

doing the same? Ironic, huh? Perhaps we use it even more so? But we

continue to blame Sharpton, or Young for using it when we in

reality we use it every time we get the chance, like with the M-word

issue for example. Sadly, a FREQUENT issue amongst us.

Thus, if we're against using the M-word, why can't we leave the

African Americans out of it by saying we just hate the word and the

use of it. In other words, to us, the usage of the M-word disturbs

us! If not, why not?

luv, grady, and as always, my opinions only.

Don't think like me, think for yourself. It's more rewarding:).

Otherwise, if you're gonna think like me because you're too afraid

think for yourself for fear of what your clique, groupies or friends

may think of you for thinking outside of their box, I, unlike them

will CHARGE you a royalty for every thought, word or idea that comes

out of your mouth that even remotely resembles mine! - a gradyism

....Unless you have LIVED in a " AFRICAN-AMERICAN SHOES " , and have been

called everything under the sun including your name, then I would

like to see this subject dropped from the list.

===

[Guest guest]

Butch....

Be my guest and tear this Bill a new one.

Judy

[Guest guest]

Bill --

I was originally going to post this to you privately but then decided

you deserved public recognition.

What a fabulously amazing post! Empathy is an important quality to

have and it allows one person to be able to put themselves in

another's shoes. Do we have rules that only our fellow dwarfs can be

on this list & post? Do we claim that APs cannot and/or do not

understand our POV, our struggles, our lives? I don't know about

others on this list but I have a whole host of wonderful APs in my

life that I know " get it " -- my sister, my wonderful significant

other, my best friends and that only begins to scratch the surface.

Dan & Barbara Kennedy, Marty Hiebert, Neal Pratt, Whims Ivey and

& Mayeaux are just a few names that come quickly to mind. I

dare anyone to say that they don't get it simply because they are

average height.

I do not and will not ever understand what it's like to be a person

of color in this culture but this does not mean I cannot understand a

person's hurt when they come into contact with an idiot. I don't

believe we should sit around pointing fingers and saying " You don't

understand because you haven't... " or " You're not (X) so you can`t

discuss… " Instead, let's spend time looking at what we have in common

with each other rather than dissecting our differences. By banding

together we support each other when we one of us is hurt rather than

adding to that hurt by claiming that our pain isn't as significant

because we have such-and-such difference.

We have so many people willing to tell us on a daily basis that we

aren't as good due to a characteristic we had no control over. Let's

not do this to each other.

Rose

[Guest guest]

The common ground we share is sparse.

Because who amongst us is our Parks? Who has a separate hate

group that would love to see the total elimination or at least see

them totally removed from this country (ie. the KKK). We may get

refused a job or a date from some ap family who doesn't want their ap

child to go out with an lp, but who has gotten shot, killed, mamed or

falsely accused of rape because we may have even looked at an ap's ap

daughter the wrong way or what was taken up by them as the wrong way?

Who has gotten their head taken off by being dragged behind a pickup

truck in Texas? That gentleman not only got stares and slurs said

against him that very same day, but he got and endured more than we

have ever known as a group of distinct people in America. Who of our

older members can recall seeing ANY " midgets only " drinking fountain

signs or " we don't serve midgets " on the front door of a diner? Or

midgets in the back of a bus? Who of us, true we maybe we weren't

taken serious at a job application, were then chase down the street

and had these words said to us, " Listen Boy, don't you be showing

your butt up here to apply for a job again. Do ya hear me boy? Cuz we

don't hire your type and if ya come back here again boy, you'll be

answering to some buckshot instead of Betty Lou, our secretary. " Who

of us has ever refused entry to a college purely based on our

exterior, which dwarfism is an exterior difference too ya know, and

even when the US Supreme Court said we could attend the college, the

local people followed, harassed, and spat upon them as they entered

Ol' Miss (Unversity). Who amongst us had four of their precious

little girls mudered from a church bombing? Who amongst us when

shopping for a house we're led to look only at houses within our own

race, because some real estate agents to this very day, I believe the

practice is called " red-lining, " red-line an entire area in their

selling block because they know that some whites will absolutely

freak if any blacks are shown a single house in their neighborhood.

Has that non-voilent thing ever happened to a one of us? Just asking.

I dunno, maybe it has, so enlighten me:).

Who of us can say we were ripped apart from our families, forcibly

taken away against our will from our home country that even almost

200 years later with laws enacted now to treat everyone equal, they

still can not tell you what specific country or tribe they come from

Africa, because their history and heritage was also taken from them.

I can tell you exactly the town and the family name on both sides of

my family, when my family came over voluntarily a hundred years ago

to America. It was the ' of Colwyn Bay, Wales. African

Americans can only call themselves that, being from Africa only-a

whole entire continent mind you. Very very few can tell you as to

specific area, country, region, town, tribe or family of Africa to

which they also came, like we can. Again because they don't know what

country or tribe they were stolen from, but we can. Besides being

able to call myself as a Caucasian American if I so choose, I can

call myself a Colwyn Bay Welsh American or simply a Welsh American,

but Wales is specific area in a specific country.

About sympathisizing: Anyone, anywhere, and of any height can do that

to one another, but can you relate to it? Can you relate to what they

went through and then say, my people's have gone through the same

thing? Even to the non-voilent things, which I've named several. I

feel, my own personal opinion here, is that the African Americans as

a people, albeit they are a minority such as we are and true their

difference is physical as is ours, is that they have gone through

much more than we as lps ever have in America. >>> I would venture to

say that in times past we could even find a few lps who were members

of the KKK, but I bet none of them were ever members of a hateful,

let's kill the midget group. <<<

One of my first job applications, outside of High School, was done by

ap white guy and while he was interviewing me an ap black man stood

by and listened. Then called the white guy aside and basically said,

give him (me) a chance and he did and I was hired. Months later he

and I talked, and he shared with me how his influence was really the

deciding factor as to why I got hired, to which I said thanks. But

then me, loving to talk and make others think, I said, " Well, Richie,

I guess you did it because you can relate to me. " He said, " More or

less, yes, but even you, you being a white dwarf had it easier than

me. " I said, " How so? I get turned down from dates, jobs, and get the

slurs too simply from my size alone as you get from your race alone. "

Then he said, " Has anyone ever hated you from your size alone? To the

point they'd rather see you dead than alive? And Grady you talk about

being refused dates but what if you met a rich racist white man who

had a dwarf daughter (or a job to offer), you'd still be let in

before I would be, period. "

I hate the M-word. I detest it. But I do for my own personal dwarf

reasons, not for any reason of any other people or for any stares and

slurs they may have had to endure too. I have it hard being a dwarf

but I imagine it must've been a lot harder for an African American

than it ever has been for me, especially harder if that African

American is not only African American but an lp like me too. And

harder yet if that African American lp is married to a non-African

lp, because there's another M-word a few of us, yup, even us a few of

us (forget the ap's in this one), despise, hate, detest seeing happen

amongst us... and that is M-ixed M-arriages.

luv, grady, as always, my opinions only.

PS-This is my last contribution to a fruitless discussion with no end

in sight.

[Guest guest]

This is sort of interesting~ my daughter's fourth grade teacher had the class do

a disability awareness week, and I was against that. I thought it was great that

he wanted to make the kids a little more aware, but I really thought it did a

disservice to all challenged people.

It's naïve to think you know what it's like if you only " pretend " for a week~

the biggest challenge is knowing that you can't take out the earplugs, or take

off the foggy glasses after a week. I hope this makes sense.

I know and saw everything my daughter went through, and a week just does not

cover it.

The kids walked around, saying, " This is cool! " " It's not that bad! " , but they

know in the back of their mind that it's all over by the end of the week. The

challenge is in knowing there is no end of the week for the disabled. I really

hopes this all makes sense to someone... it's late for me, and it's been a long

day!

Good night, everyone!

Patty

Re: JUST IN GENERAL...

Bill --

I was originally going to post this to you privately but then decided

you deserved public recognition.

What a fabulously amazing post! Empathy is an important quality to

have and it allows one person to be able to put themselves in

another's shoes. Do we have rules that only our fellow dwarfs can be

on this list & post? Do we claim that APs cannot and/or do not

understand our POV, our struggles, our lives? I don't know about

others on this list but I have a whole host of wonderful APs in my

life that I know " get it " -- my sister, my wonderful significant

other, my best friends and that only begins to scratch the surface.

Dan & Barbara Kennedy, Marty Hiebert, Neal Pratt, Whims Ivey and

& Mayeaux are just a few names that come quickly to mind. I

dare anyone to say that they don't get it simply because they are

average height.

I do not and will not ever understand what it's like to be a person

of color in this culture but this does not mean I cannot understand a

person's hurt when they come into contact with an idiot. I don't

believe we should sit around pointing fingers and saying " You don't

understand because you haven't... " or " You're not (X) so you can`t

discuss. " Instead, let's spend time looking at what we have in common

with each other rather than dissecting our differences. By banding

together we support each other when we one of us is hurt rather than

adding to that hurt by claiming that our pain isn't as significant

because we have such-and-such difference.

We have so many people willing to tell us on a daily basis that we

aren't as good due to a characteristic we had no control over. Let's

not do this to each other.

Rose

===

[Guest guest]

My sons group the Royal Rangers does disability awareness 2 weeks a year..

and I say BRAVO. After going through this my son comes to me and apologized

to me for making comments like I am slow. Him having to push around a

wheelchair everywhere for 4 days straight gave him a small taste of what I

have to go through. Also when my wife gets persnippity with me I make her

haul herself around and up and down the ramps here in my chair,,, it usually

works to shut her up and have more patience with me lol. The point is they

are trying and some will think its not bad but it will also touch a few who

wouldn't care if they hadn't been given the opportunity.

Charley Brown

Chass of Rundel of Ansteorra aka

Charinthalis Del Sans of the portable Chariot

Honorable Recruiter of the House of the Red Shark (Have you seen my Belaying

Pin??)

Muddeler of Mead, Ailment of Ale, Whiner of wine.

Re: Re: JUST IN GENERAL...

This is sort of interesting~ my daughter's fourth grade teacher had the

class do a disability awareness week, and I was against that. I thought it

was great that he wanted to make the kids a little more aware, but I really

thought it did a disservice to all challenged people.

It's naïve to think you know what it's like if you only " pretend " for a

week~ the biggest challenge is knowing that you can't take out the earplugs,

or take off the foggy glasses after a week. I hope this makes sense.

I know and saw everything my daughter went through, and a week just does not

cover it.

The kids walked around, saying, " This is cool! " " It's not that bad! " , but

they know in the back of their mind that it's all over by the end of the

week. The challenge is in knowing there is no end of the week for the

disabled. I really hopes this all makes sense to someone... it's late for

me, and it's been a long day!

Good night, everyone!

Patty