Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 Janet..... > because at the beginning I was in fibrillation. But by the time the > EMTs arrived, I needed CPR. My doctor says, however, that I was > " down " > for quite a while and that's what caused my brain damage. In CPR > class, > do they teach you WHEN to do CPR? Yes, they do. You're taught to take the person's pulse on the carotid artery (in the neck), check for breathing. A person in v-fib will still be 'breathing', but it is what is called agonal respiration.... sounds like noisy demented loud snoring.... horrible to witness. (My husband was doing that during his v-fib episode in the ER.) There is little or no discernible pulse when the person is in v-fib. You MUST begin the chest compressions/breathing for them, or death/brain damage will quickly result. Your local Red Cross/hospital will offer classes for CPR at low or no cost. Sue -- " She was not quite what you would call refined. She was not quite what you would call unrefined. She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot. " -- Mark Twain Rich and Sue Owens http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/7457/index3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 Yes, in CPR class they teach you when to do CPR. My mother and I just took the class this past Monday night - so I am very current. 1st - determine the person is unresponsive 2nd - get someone to dial 911 or you do it if you are alone - tell the 911 oper. to send an ambulance and get off the phone - don't hang it up - just put it down (my mother asked what to do about all the questions - if you are alone - just drop the phone!) after they have the address 3rd - check for breathing, tilt the chin up, look (watch their chest). listen and feel (face close to person's face) for breathing. Readjust the head if you don't see breathing. Check again. 4th -no breathing - give 2 breaths 5th- Now you check for a pulse, if no pulse, you begin CPR, if there is a pulse, just continue breathing for them every 5 sec and check for a pulse once a minute Please don't use these directions as training. Everyone should complete their own CPR certification. They also review what to do with blocked airways. CPR never starts until you have an airway. Think of it as ABCs Airway, breathing, circulation We took our class at the through the local hospital's education classes. It was funny - they didn't know the new ICDs are placed in the chest. They thought they were still all in the lower abdomen. My mom corrected them. Kathleen CPR > To answer Sue's question about how I got CPR, I collapsed in a car lot > (my doctor says it must have been sticker shock), and the employees > there called 911. That also brings up a question I have about CPR. I > have never taken a class, so am wondering how you know when to do CPR. > The car lot people thought I was having a seizure. I'm guessing that's > because at the beginning I was in fibrillation. But by the time the > EMTs arrived, I needed CPR. My doctor says, however, that I was " down " > for quite a while and that's what caused my brain damage. In CPR class, > do they teach you WHEN to do CPR? > > > > Please visit the Zapper homepage at > http://www.ZapLife.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 Janet...... > > have never taken a class, so am wondering how you know when to do CPR. > > The car lot people thought I was having a seizure. I'm guessing > that's > because at the beginning I was in fibrillation..... Oh, yeah, forgot to mention..... it DOES look a lot like a seizure. When my husband did his gig recently, his arms and legs flailed around; they were trying to hold him down. It's just your body fighting for air and life. But to an untrained person, it does look very much like a seizure. Can't blame the car lot folks for mistaking your condition.... glad they called 911 for you, and that you made it. Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 GREAT INFO FOR ALL, DO TAKE THE CLASS. IT'S NICE TO KNOW THE BASICS, BUT TO APPLY THEM DURING A REAL EMERGENCY IS A DIFFERENT STORY. THANKS FOR SHARING. EBE46@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2001 Report Share Posted February 15, 2001 My father died of a massive heart attact. I knew only part of what to do. Now, my daughter has insisted that we take the class. I am blind. I have faced many hurdles, I guess I'll try this one.! Ebe46@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Afternoon All And happy new year etc..... On the First Aid Cafe one of the memebers went to the ERC symposium in Marseille Nov 03. This is what he posted " Compression only CPR was discussed in some detail. It seems that the body uses far less oxygen when in cardiac arrest than had been realised and so oxygen is retained for much longer than previously thought but it needs to be circulated. It appears that non-stop compressions provide much higher blood flow to the heart and the brain and the oxygen still in the blood lasts longer than thought. The current system of CPR results in interruptions of blood flow as ventilations seem to result in 'hands off' time of 14 - 16 seconds which means that the blood just isn't flowing long enough. Only one randomised clinical trial has been published so far, but a few other non-randomised trials and research has been producing convincing evidence that this is a promising new idea. Karl Kern of the American Heart Association and Lars Wik of the Norwegian Resuscitation Council have been doing a lot of this research. The evidence suggests that where compression only CPR (ie; chest compressions without ventilation) is performed, although a similar number of patients were defibrillated successfully in either normal CPR or conventional CPR, there were a lot more people surviving until discharge in the group that had compressions only prior to shock. More research needs to be undertaken yet, though advice to clinicians was that in the event of a witnessed arrest in the hospital setting, compression only CPR is the logical thing to do. I would think that in cases where a defibrillator is likely to arrive in less than 5 minutes, compression only CPR may become the course of action to take but please THIS IS STILL BEING RESEARCHED. Guidelines are due now in 2005 but I wouldn't be surprised to see the introduction of tbis method in the new guidelines. It is also probable, that for long resuscitation attempts the compression ventilation ratio will change with far more compressions being given and far fewer ventilations - but of course, we will need to wait and see what the experts decide when the full data is available. Keep an eye out for this one guys, I'd put money on the 2005 CPR guidelines containing the biggest change since its conception in the sixties! " If anybody wants any further info, the following link should take you to the forum where the subject was discussed http://www.firstaidcafe.co.uk/Forum/Replys.asp?forumID=5 & topicID=713 Or if you want I can post any questions etc on the cafe if you want further info Regards to all Rattigan >From: " Ross Boardman " <ross.boardman@...> >Reply- >< > >Subject: RE: (unknown) >Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:11:04 -0000 > >Hi Mark, > >The pecking order tends to be, for the UK anyway: > >ILCOR International Liaison Committee on Resus. >ERC European Resus. Council >RC(UK) Resus. Council UK > >There are some excelent journals out there and >Resuscitation is very well thought of. > >Happy hunting, > >Ross > > > > > > > >having just completed my remote > > ambulance and paramedic refresher exams we > > >were informed as >a class that a new > > " international " C.P.R. standard is > > >going to be implemented in Australia > > later in >the year,at present 15 > > >compressions to 2 breaths in 4 cycles > > per minute for one or two person > > > >operators are the industry > > standard,(as the old 5 and 1 is obsolete), can > > >anybody tell me what >the > > " international " C.P.R. standard is , and which > > >medical body has enforced it as the > > gold standard. > > >obviously the instustors were not > > forthcoming in explaining the new > > >standard but i would obviously >assume > > more compressions and oxygenation > > >per minute are in the new > > equasion,obviously >enabling better > > oxygenation/ > > >prefusion one would assume, but what > > about the long term effect >for the > > >patient if for instance a > > defibrillator was not at hand or is > > this a C.P.R > > >standard that is to >only be used in > > conjuction with a defibrillator i.e in > > >between salvos? > > > _________________________________________________________________ Send a funky Messenger Christmas card http://www.msn.co.uk/christmascard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 Well if it's evidence based I would agree. Any idea how much O2 is actually used in Cardiac arrest compared to normal or were no figures given? Any references for further reading? Happy 2004 Carpenter RE: (unknown) >>Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:11:04 -0000 >> >>Hi Mark, >> >>The pecking order tends to be, for the UK anyway: >> >>ILCOR International Liaison Committee on Resus. >>ERC European Resus. Council >>RC(UK) Resus. Council UK >> >>There are some excelent journals out there and >>Resuscitation is very well thought of. >> >>Happy hunting, >> >>Ross >> >> > >> > >> > >having just completed my remote >> > ambulance and paramedic refresher exams we >> > >were informed as >a class that a new >> > " international " C.P.R. standard is >> > >going to be implemented in Australia >> > later in >the year,at present 15 >> > >compressions to 2 breaths in 4 cycles >> > per minute for one or two person >> > > >operators are the industry >> > standard,(as the old 5 and 1 is obsolete), can >> > >anybody tell me what >the >> > " international " C.P.R. standard is , and which >> > >medical body has enforced it as the >> > gold standard. >> > >obviously the instustors were not >> > forthcoming in explaining the new >> > >standard but i would obviously >assume >> > more compressions and oxygenation >> > >per minute are in the new >> > equasion,obviously >enabling better >> > oxygenation/ >> > >prefusion one would assume, but what >> > about the long term effect >for the >> > >patient if for instance a >> > defibrillator was not at hand or is >> > this a C.P.R >> > >standard that is to >only be used in >> > conjuction with a defibrillator i.e in >> > >between salvos? >> > >> > >_________________________________________________________________ >Send a funky Messenger Christmas card http://www.msn.co.uk/christmascard > > >Member Information: > >List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... >Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... > >ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. > >Post message: egroups > >Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > >Regards > >The Remote Medics Team > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2004 Report Share Posted January 3, 2004 <<SNIP>>Compression only CPR was discussed in some detail. It seems that the body uses far less oxygen when in cardiac arrest than had been realised and so oxygen is retained for much longer than previously thought but it needs to be circulated. It appears that non-stop compressions provide much higher blood flow to the heart and the brain and the oxygen still in the blood lasts longer than thought<<SNIP>> True as far as it goes. But hold on a minute - that is what is done once intubated: continuous compressions BUT WITH VENTILATIONS. <<SNIP>>The current system of CPR results in interruptions of blood flow as ventilations seem to result in 'hands off' time of 14 - 16 seconds which means that the blood just isn't flowing long enough.<<SNIP>>advice to clinicians was that in the event of a witnessed arrest in the hospital setting, compression only CPR is the logical thing to do.<<SNIP>> Disagree - only for the first nursing (BLS) responders. Once ALS (the code team) arrives, intubate, conbtinuous compressions and asynchrounous ventilation will remain the norm. <<SNIP>>It is also probable, that for long resuscitation attempts the compression ventilation ratio will change with far more compressions being given and far fewer ventilations - but of course, we will need to wait and see what the experts decide when the full data is available.<<SNIP>> Already here for LAY PUBLIC courses: ventilation is entirely optional for the first rescuer. However for designated responders/healthcare workers (who presumeably are capable of eing taught how to ventilate and check pulses AND who have a legal duty (ie: on the job) to resuscitate, I seriously doubt that no ventilations will be the norm EXCEPT IN BLS CONDITIONS UNTIL AN AIREWAY CAN BE SECURED (by ETT,NTT LMA, Combitube, trach, cric, EOA, EGTA, PTLA etc). <SNIP>>Keep an eye out for this one guys, I'd put money on the 2005 CPR guidelines containing the biggest change since its conception in the sixties!<<SNIP>> Fair comment, but as implied above - only so far as BLS first responders goes. The push behind this is to make it easeir to teach to the lay public, thus hopefully higher retention and more willingnes to intervene. For working professionals I doubt much will change. Especially at the ACLS level. Ken L-W CCEMT-P/RN etc and ACLS instructor. _____________________________________________________________ Get yourname@...: Sign up at http://www.FlightMedicMail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 the new guidelines allow you to call 911 before you start cpr, so you have a head start there... however, i've also shown luthien that she would be able to perform the heimlich by straddling my legs and pushing upwards on my diaphragm, instead of attempting to put her arms around me from the back [which she couldnt do]. Whims CPR I think that would be a great workshop, it was difficult for me as a Freshman in high school to perform CPR on a mannequin (I can't spell, but I hope you understand where I am going). So I am not sure on how I would do it on an average size person. The teacher excused me from the assignment, but she said, what's going happen if it really happened? So anyway, I believe it's a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.