Re: Digest Number 1260

[Guest guest]

Hello, my name is Patty and i live in calif. my daughter is 11 yrs old and

sexual thoughts is one of the main ocd problems she has , only hers is

probably worse, she has very bad sexual thoughts of me and haveing sex with

me and when she is around children or little kids its the same thing and let

me tell you they are pretty sickening thoughts . its not easy looking her

straight in the eye when shes telling me about them

<snip>

Patty in california

-----

I asked my daughter (12 y.o.) how things were and had she had any intrusive

thoughts recently and she said yes but didnt want to talk about it because

it was too embarrasing. I encouraged her to tell me about it and nearly had

a fit when she said she had been having sexual thoughts . I was almost sorry

that I asked, no wonder she didnt want to tell me.

<snip>

Kerrie

---

Patty, Kerrie, et al;

I don't have any kids, but I'm a lifelong OCD sufferer, so take what I have

to say from that standpoint. Hopefully some of this will help, at least a

little. I can really sympathize with you both, and I'm sure that you're

both handling these situations with a lot of courage and love. This is

generally one of the roughest aspects of OCD that the sufferer and

caretakers have to deal with!

Your children are entering into what can be the most difficult stage in life

for an OCD sufferer. Intrusive sexual thoughts are difficult enough for an

OCD person - when combined with puberty the problem escalates. Hormones are

running wild, sexual feelings are starting to become more cohesive, sexual

identities are just beginning to coalesce, etc. It's a confusing time for

any teen (as I'm sure we all remember), but when you throw OCD into the mix

things can get pretty scary for the child.

I had a terrible time (to say the least) with puberty. Masturbation tied

into cleanliness obsessions ( " Time for the 5th shower of the day - one more

and I'll start bleeding " ), spontaneous erections (normal for early teens

boys) tied into fears about what I was looking at when the erection began

( " Oh my god, I was looking at a cat! Gross! " ), and I was having horribly

intrusive, disturbing, disgusting thoughts. For example, in late

elementary/early junior high school I was constantly having disturbing

intrusive thoughts about VERY weird and bizarre sex with a male friend. I

wasn't gay (I've always been attracted to the opposite sex - never went

through the cootie stage *G*), so I didn't understand where the thoughts

came from, and had trouble dealing with the more disturbing aspects of them.

The cleanliness stuff kicked in, too, so I got to where I couldn't touch my

friend or anything that he had just touched. This made social interaction

difficult, to say the least, though it was only a problem with that one

person. It lasted for years, to the detriment of my relationship with him

(he never understood why I acted so strangely all of a sudden).

Things got better as I got older and learned to differentiate OCD thoughts

and feelings from " real " ones, and learned techniques to minimize the

emotional effects of the OCD ones. This was back in the late 70's, early

80's, so I didn't have a name for it (OCD was still considered to be rare),

but I had developed a pretty good grasp of the dynamics of it.

I did learn a few very important thing that eventually helped me to deal

with intrusive disturbing sexual thoughts:

1) The OCD will look for whatever you find to be most horrendous, and will

force you to live it mentally.

2) These are not fantasies that reflect underlying feelings; rather, they

are reflections of our darkest fears.

3) The very fact that these thoughts are intrusive, bothersome, and

disturbing are good signs that the sufferer would never WANT these things to

happen.

4) A little bit of a sense of titillation may slip in because the sufferer

FEARS that titillation will occur. In my case, I feared the idea that I

would find the thoughts titillating, and as a result the OCD kicked in and

kept forcing me to focus on the sensations in my penis. Since a penis rubs

against the pants all day long (you tend to ignore this most of the time), I

would inevitably become aware of it suddenly, and misinterpret the physical

sensation for titillation. This would in turn feed the fear of titillation,

becoming a vicious cycle. I eventually learned to separate normal, ongoing

physical sensations from sexual titillation, which helped immensely.

Try to keep in mind that your child most likely feels even more horrified by

these thoughts than you do. If one of them is particularly sickening to

you, it's probably twice that for your child, and four times as worse when

having to " admit " to it. The weird thing is that OCD can come up with stuff

that the sufferer would never come up with on his/her own (if asked to write

down things they found sickening) - it's an amazingly creative and ornery

disorder, and pulls no punches.

Patty - My bet is that an OCD child having disturbing, intrusive thoughts

about having sex (normal or bizarre) with a parent or sibling is quite

common. I know that I had some of those, and they really upset me. When

your daughter tells you about them, I would try to think of it in these

terms: " She's telling me her worst fears, not her desires. She loves me and

feels close to me, and these intrusive thoughts are playing off that and

trying to twist them into something she abhors, the poor little thing. " If

her OCD makes her think of having sex with you, and that upsets her, then

that's proof positive that she DOESN'T want to have sex with you. I would

find that comforting - she's a normal child who DOESN'T want to have sex

with her mother, but expresses it in a different way.

Kerrie - As difficult as it is (and I'm sure it's VERY VERY VERY difficult),

I would try to not let your daughter's thoughts upset you, or at least not

let her see that they do. If you act like they're just another set of

" normal " OCD thoughts, she'll see that facing her fears doesn't have to lead

to rejection by those she loves. Even though you weren't rejecting her at

all, that's a big fear for us OCD folks. If she sees that you're upset,

then that will add to her feelings of guilt, and give the OCD more to play

with. Remember that these thoughts are disturbing to her, too, and in all

likelihood don't reflect any growing sexual interests or fantasies. Your

daughter was extremely brave to tell you about them - I never did admit any

of those to my parents. I would let her talk about them if she needs to,

but not push her on them - now that the general topic is out in the open,

maybe you could just discuss them in general terms (no specifics) with her?

I don't know either of your kids or your dynamics with them, so take the

above with a grain of salt - they're just ideas. I wish the best of luck to

both of you - it's obvious that you're both trying very hard to help your

kids, and are very good parents. Your children are very lucky to have such

concerned, understanding parents!

-

[Guest guest]

>

> -----

>

>

>Hi ,

where would we all be without you. Your insight and understanding of what we go

through is so beneficial to us all. Your willingness to share your personal

stories in an effort to help us understand and deal with these issues is

wonderful.

I felt much better after reading your post and will definetely take your advice

and not show any upset or horror at anything my daughter may tell me about these

intrusive sexual thoughts.

I also think that the best way to go for now is as you suggested that now it is

out in the open to just speak about it in a general way and not to push for

specifics. To be truthful, I dont want to know specifics, this I would find hard

to deal with.

> ---

>

>

>

>

>

> 3) The very fact that these thoughts are intrusive, bothersome, and

> disturbing are good signs that the sufferer would never WANT these things to

> happen.

>

these words were very comforting and I will probably read then many times in the

future as we learn more and what to do in this part of our journey with OCD once

again.

Kerrie.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jessie, you sure are a wonderful person to write me and Kerrie the things you

did, I will never forget what you said and youll never know how much i

appreciate your opinion and you shareing your experiences with us. You have

taught me alot and allready made it easier for me to breath, I THANK YOU FOR

THAT Patty in calif.

Re: Digest Number 1260

Hello, my name is Patty and i live in calif. my daughter is 11 yrs old and

sexual thoughts is one of the main ocd problems she has , only hers is

probably worse, she has very bad sexual thoughts of me and haveing sex with

me and when she is around children or little kids its the same thing and let

me tell you they are pretty sickening thoughts . its not easy looking her

straight in the eye when shes telling me about them

<snip>

Patty in california

-----

I asked my daughter (12 y.o.) how things were and had she had any intrusive

thoughts recently and she said yes but didnt want to talk about it because

it was too embarrasing. I encouraged her to tell me about it and nearly had

a fit when she said she had been having sexual thoughts . I was almost sorry

that I asked, no wonder she didnt want to tell me.

<snip>

Kerrie

---

Patty, Kerrie, et al;

I don't have any kids, but I'm a lifelong OCD sufferer, so take what I have

to say from that standpoint. Hopefully some of this will help, at least a

little. I can really sympathize with you both, and I'm sure that you're

both handling these situations with a lot of courage and love. This is

generally one of the roughest aspects of OCD that the sufferer and

caretakers have to deal with!

Your children are entering into what can be the most difficult stage in life

for an OCD sufferer. Intrusive sexual thoughts are difficult enough for an

OCD person - when combined with puberty the problem escalates. Hormones are

running wild, sexual feelings are starting to become more cohesive, sexual

identities are just beginning to coalesce, etc. It's a confusing time for

any teen (as I'm sure we all remember), but when you throw OCD into the mix

things can get pretty scary for the child.

I had a terrible time (to say the least) with puberty. Masturbation tied

into cleanliness obsessions ( " Time for the 5th shower of the day - one more

and I'll start bleeding " ), spontaneous erections (normal for early teens

boys) tied into fears about what I was looking at when the erection began

( " Oh my god, I was looking at a cat! Gross! " ), and I was having horribly

intrusive, disturbing, disgusting thoughts. For example, in late

elementary/early junior high school I was constantly having disturbing

intrusive thoughts about VERY weird and bizarre sex with a male friend. I

wasn't gay (I've always been attracted to the opposite sex - never went

through the cootie stage *G*), so I didn't understand where the thoughts

came from, and had trouble dealing with the more disturbing aspects of them.

The cleanliness stuff kicked in, too, so I got to where I couldn't touch my

friend or anything that he had just touched. This made social interaction

difficult, to say the least, though it was only a problem with that one

person. It lasted for years, to the detriment of my relationship with him

(he never understood why I acted so strangely all of a sudden).

Things got better as I got older and learned to differentiate OCD thoughts

and feelings from " real " ones, and learned techniques to minimize the

emotional effects of the OCD ones. This was back in the late 70's, early

80's, so I didn't have a name for it (OCD was still considered to be rare),

but I had developed a pretty good grasp of the dynamics of it.

I did learn a few very important thing that eventually helped me to deal

with intrusive disturbing sexual thoughts:

1) The OCD will look for whatever you find to be most horrendous, and will

force you to live it mentally.

2) These are not fantasies that reflect underlying feelings; rather, they

are reflections of our darkest fears.

3) The very fact that these thoughts are intrusive, bothersome, and

disturbing are good signs that the sufferer would never WANT these things to

happen.

4) A little bit of a sense of titillation may slip in because the sufferer

FEARS that titillation will occur. In my case, I feared the idea that I

would find the thoughts titillating, and as a result the OCD kicked in and

kept forcing me to focus on the sensations in my penis. Since a penis rubs

against the pants all day long (you tend to ignore this most of the time), I

would inevitably become aware of it suddenly, and misinterpret the physical

sensation for titillation. This would in turn feed the fear of titillation,

becoming a vicious cycle. I eventually learned to separate normal, ongoing

physical sensations from sexual titillation, which helped immensely.

Try to keep in mind that your child most likely feels even more horrified by

these thoughts than you do. If one of them is particularly sickening to

you, it's probably twice that for your child, and four times as worse when

having to " admit " to it. The weird thing is that OCD can come up with stuff

that the sufferer would never come up with on his/her own (if asked to write

down things they found sickening) - it's an amazingly creative and ornery

disorder, and pulls no punches.

Patty - My bet is that an OCD child having disturbing, intrusive thoughts

about having sex (normal or bizarre) with a parent or sibling is quite

common. I know that I had some of those, and they really upset me. When

your daughter tells you about them, I would try to think of it in these

terms: " She's telling me her worst fears, not her desires. She loves me and

feels close to me, and these intrusive thoughts are playing off that and

trying to twist them into something she abhors, the poor little thing. " If

her OCD makes her think of having sex with you, and that upsets her, then

that's proof positive that she DOESN'T want to have sex with you. I would

find that comforting - she's a normal child who DOESN'T want to have sex

with her mother, but expresses it in a different way.

Kerrie - As difficult as it is (and I'm sure it's VERY VERY VERY difficult),

I would try to not let your daughter's thoughts upset you, or at least not

let her see that they do. If you act like they're just another set of

" normal " OCD thoughts, she'll see that facing her fears doesn't have to lead

to rejection by those she loves. Even though you weren't rejecting her at

all, that's a big fear for us OCD folks. If she sees that you're upset,

then that will add to her feelings of guilt, and give the OCD more to play

with. Remember that these thoughts are disturbing to her, too, and in all

likelihood don't reflect any growing sexual interests or fantasies. Your

daughter was extremely brave to tell you about them - I never did admit any

of those to my parents. I would let her talk about them if she needs to,

but not push her on them - now that the general topic is out in the open,

maybe you could just discuss them in general terms (no specifics) with her?

I don't know either of your kids or your dynamics with them, so take the

above with a grain of salt - they're just ideas. I wish the best of luck to

both of you - it's obvious that you're both trying very hard to help your

kids, and are very good parents. Your children are very lucky to have such

concerned, understanding parents!

-

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

I am a new parent to this group. In regard to the intrusive thoughts. My

teenage son has had them with his OCD. Knowing what a sweet heart he is, and

knowing these are OCD thoughts. WE have began to mend. His meds are helping

the thoughts to be far apart. At first he cried because the thoughts were so

negative. But as a family we pulled together and counseled each other. This

group is great, I don't feel so all alone in coping.

Thanks,

Jana

[Guest guest]

I sell a huge amount of lotion bars. I make mine in deordorant containers,

..05 I sell for $6.00 and the large 2.5oz I sell for $13.00.

Carol

5 oz travel size deodorant container-$3.50

2.5 oz regular size deodorant container - $6.50 or 3/$18

I sell a great deal of these

[Guest guest]

> > 1/4 Tsp. Sqalane (latest and greatest? anti-wrinkle oil)

> > Squalane is a derivative of olive oil. Supposedly of very small

> > molecular size to penetrate deeply and loaded with nutrients.

> > Charmaine

Hello Charmaine,

Actually, my research tells me that squalene is derived from deep sea shark

livers for use in health foods, or is refined to squalane for use in

cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.

Nerys

[Guest guest]

> Actually, my research tells me that squalene is derived from deep sea

shark

> livers for use in health foods, or is refined to squalane for use in

> cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.

Nerys

-------------------------------------------------

> Hello Charmaine, Oooops my computer sent this before I had finished! I

wanted to know where you had found reference to squalane being derived from

olives? I'd much prefer that to shark livers!!

>

Nerys

Book now for the 2nd Bodycraft

(toiletry making) on-line workshop.

For details mail: npurchon@...

[Guest guest]

Nerys,

Squalane is derived from both sources... Olive oil or shark

Lucinda

Glenbrook Farms Herbs and Such

http://www.glenbrookfarm.com/herbs

Re: Digest Number 1260

> > 1/4 Tsp. Sqalane (latest and greatest? anti-wrinkle oil) Squalane is

> > a derivative of olive oil. Supposedly of very small molecular size

> > to penetrate deeply and loaded with nutrients. Charmaine

Hello Charmaine,

Actually, my research tells me that squalene is derived from deep sea

shark livers for use in health foods, or is refined to squalane for use

in cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.

Nerys

[Guest guest]

thank you Lee I appreciate you and Tad's reply. Tad thanks for the

encouragement and Lee Thank you also for your words of encourage you just gave

me a new

hope. I would really be exicted about hearing in my left ear. When I go in

Oct. I am gonna take along some of this information on how CI is working for

those of us who have been deaf for a long time.

Thanks again,

Sherry

In a message dated 8/17/2004 6:06:30 PM Central Daylight Time,

writes:

::::::::::::;; dropping jaw::::::::::::::

you got to be kidding! I was told 2 years ago that I couldn't get CI cuz I w

as deaf too long........ guess what,,, I rebelled, went to another

clinic,,,,, now I can discriminate about 35% of speeches in sound

booth........ any

sound,, known and unknown are gifts to me.

If they still say NO in October, go to another doctor.

Lee

[Guest guest]

A word of encouragement.....so glad you are pushing to get your

implant. I too have been told at various times, you hear too well

for an implant or it's been too long since I heard speech. The

audiologist that said I hear too well had never seen my charts which

indicated very severe to profound loss. I'm still wagging my head

over the remark that it has been too long since I've heard speech.

I'm not sure what that means.....I've worn hearing aids for 50 years

and have excellent speech myself so my reasoning is that I know

(underlined) what speech should sound like even if I cannot hear it.

So why wouldn't I be able to learn new sounds and associate them with

the spoken word? Fortunately, my audiologist thinks I WILL be able

to understand speech but there is no guarantee. I'll be so happy to

hear anything, that if I should be able to listen to the radio or

campfire stories in the dark, or my grandchildren behind me in the

back seat....to me, that would be a wonderful miracle.

I agree with Lee and Tad....keep searching.

Good Luck, phillipss1a

> thank you Lee I appreciate you and Tad's reply. Tad thanks for the

> encouragement and Lee Thank you also for your words of encourage

you just gave me a new

> hope. I would really be exicted about hearing in my left ear.

When I go in

> Oct. I am gonna take along some of this information on how CI is

working for

> those of us who have been deaf for a long time.

> Thanks again,

> Sherry

>

> In a message dated 8/17/2004 6:06:30 PM Central Daylight Time,

> writes:

> ::::::::::::;; dropping jaw::::::::::::::

>

> you got to be kidding! I was told 2 years ago that I couldn't get

CI cuz I w

> as deaf too long........ guess what,,, I rebelled, went to another

> clinic,,,,, now I can discriminate about 35% of speeches in sound

> booth........ any

> sound,, known and unknown are gifts to me.

>

> If they still say NO in October, go to another doctor.

>

> Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/2/2006 1:10:04 AM Central Standard Time, Joint Replacement writes:

Subject: Re: Digest Number 1258Thanks Helen for the info! How did they get the dislocated hip back

They have to put you in surgery, to sleep and the OD does all kinds of special maneuver's

evidently that must be very painful for them to have to put you to sleep.

Woke up feeling wonderful, but spent the next 3 days in the hospital because of the incision

draining.

No, they do not do another surgery, although they did on me to put another drain tube in, but only had 5 staples that time, versus 32 from the actual surgery. He was not able to do the very small incision.

I stated in my post that I am still on a walker, wrong I am still on a cane, I used the walker until my incision stopped leaking which was about 4 to 5 weeks. My incision is already very minute. I heal great.

Now, how long can I put off this TKR, the pain left when I had my hip. Hope it stays gone.

Good luck to you and let us hear.

Helen

[Guest guest]

Tami,

Do you have migraines?

Diane

Re: celebrex

Hi Tami --

Do you know that you are alergic to Tylenol? Our types are usually fine

taking it.

Perhaps instead of asking your ENT for desensitization, why don't you talk

to a good allergist - that's who usually does it.

Good luck,

--Tibor

Tami Klumpyan <tami@...> wrote: My doctor is putting me on

400 mg of Celebrex for headaches. I don't have a problem trying it, as

I've been taking Demerol for pain currently. Last year when I wanted to do

this, my same ent said I couldn't take 400 mg. After all the hype about

vioxx and celebrex last year I'm wondering if this is safe. Yesterday when

I called his nurse to ask for a refill on Demerol she proceeded in making

me feel like an addict and said the Ent would get in trouble if he keeps

giving me demerol. She said alot of other things that I won't go into.

I've wanted to get desensed so I could take asa rather than demerol

everyday for chronic headaches but my Ent is against this idea. As you

know I had surgery two months ago, and my frontals are already full. I've

got an appointment with a pain hypnotist for the end of July (when money is

available). Am I not doing my part in trying to feel well? I really love

my Ent but am

thinking its time to see someone else. I feel stongly that because he

hasn't been able to fix me, that he's just given up on me. If I remember

correctly, Celebrex won't take the headache away all day. And I was told

that I can only take it once a day. I'm going into my working 7 days a

week and can't imagine being able to handle it with headaches. I'm

extremely tempted to try and desense myself but am a bit of a chicken. Has

anyone ever desensed themselves to Tylenol? I'm thinking that this may be

safer. I'm looking forward to the day where I can email you all and not

be such a whiner, but I'm in a bit of a jam, and need advise.

Thanks Tami

[Guest guest]

Diane,

No they are not migraines. We did try relpax last year for the heck of it with no relief. It's hard to believe that I never got headaches until about 9 or 10 years ago. Tami

Re: celebrexHi Tami --Do you know that you are alergic to Tylenol? Our types are usually finetaking it.Perhaps instead of asking your ENT for desensitization, why don't you talkto a good allergist - that's who usually does it.Good luck,--TiborTami Klumpyan <tami@...> wrote: My doctor is putting me on400 mg of Celebrex for headaches. I don't have a problem trying it, asI've been taking Demerol for pain currently. Last year when I wanted to dothis, my same ent said I couldn't take 400 mg. After all the hype aboutvioxx and celebrex last year I'm wondering if this is safe. Yesterday whenI called his nurse to ask for a refill on Demerol she proceeded in makingme feel like an addict and said the Ent would get in trouble if he keepsgiving me demerol. She said alot of other things that I won't go into.I've wanted to get desensed so I could take asa rather than demeroleveryday for chronic headaches but my Ent is against this idea. As youknow I had surgery two months ago, and my frontals are already full. I'vegot an appointment with a pain hypnotist for the end of July (when money isavailable). Am I not doing my part in trying to feel well? I really lovemy Ent but amthinking its time to see someone else. I feel stongly that because hehasn't been able to fix me, that he's just given up on me. If I remembercorrectly, Celebrex won't take the headache away all day. And I was toldthat I can only take it once a day. I'm going into my working 7 days aweek and can't imagine being able to handle it with headaches. I'mextremely tempted to try and desense myself but am a bit of a chicken. Hasanyone ever desensed themselves to Tylenol? I'm thinking that this may besafer. I'm looking forward to the day where I can email you all and notbe such a whiner, but I'm in a bit of a jam, and need advise.Thanks Tami