Re: Certification Biofeedback & IMUNE- this one is likely to stir a hornets nest -so do not read if you fear dangerous enlightenment.

[Guest guest]

 Hello all, At risk of getting  some serious personal  flaming. I must interject some facts here before we sling too much mud.There is a difference Rita, between Certification and Liscensure.  I suggest you check this link  http://www.cofda.org/cfsb/differences.htm if you want more information that.  There is no regulation at this time for a liscensure in biofeedback in California.  People create certification and certification boards in order to circumvent the Government from coming in and  regulating, by creating standards of practice and minimums for education.I am no fan of the previous incarnation of IMUNE so one can not say that I am biased for them.  But they are quite right  in saying that  neither the NBCB, BCIA, ABBP or any other certification board can issue a license in the State of California ( again one is not required here as yet).  But IMUNE is not trying to do that,  they are issuing an international certification (although they may call it a license for now) and they have every right to do so.  They do not Have to be a non profit to do so either.  They can be a for profit certification board.  There is absolutely no law that says otherwise.  Anyone can create a certification board or association. Usually it is based on  the desire to qualify and create minimum standards for practitioners of any kind.  I think people should be encouraged to do so.   I applaud the people trying to get IMUNE to be an upstanding organization geared to help practitioners internationally.  Rules and regulations vary from country to country and this organization can not only be a boon to it's members.  But also they can disseminate information about the different requirements in each country to non members. I tend to think manufacturers of machines should not be involved in the regulation of standards for practitioners because  greed may make educational decisions that are not always the best for the practitioner or consumer.  But that is only my opinion and the more organizations like IMUNE the better because it make the industry competitive and keeps them honest.   It is only when there is one organization trying to prevent competition when you need to be concerned.Right now the BCIA is the gold standard for biofeedback certification in the USA.  Yeah that is right the BCIA not the NBCB.  The BCIA though does not recognize the QXCI, or SCIO as a biofeedback device.  ( and quite frankly it they may be right they are certainly not biofeedback in the traditional sense)The NBCB which is an off shoot of the  BCIA ( what they might refer to as an irate, poor cousin)  does so because they dearly needed new members. Right now it looks like most of their members are QXCI users.  The BCIA  certification is for all types of traditional biofeedback equipment, like heart math or Now I do have SERIOUS concerns about an organization that suggests you become a "mail Order- Online- ordained minister" in order to escape prosecution for your lack of knowledge or certifications. That's what I would call ethically challenged.  It is certainly not the kind of professional organization that I would want to be involved in.  It is up to the practitioner, as a consumer to choose the type of certifications they get.They can choose the BCIA, or the NBCB or IMUNE,  for biofeedback, or the ABBP, if they are looking for a bioresonance and biofeedback certification.  Indeed you have a right to take certifications from them all.  By the same token you can train as an accupuncturist and a naturopath or an anthroposophic physician or Heilkunstler  you can take all classes.  Because you have trained as an ND or an MD you may also apply to the AMA for instance to receive a license.  In the US you are required to have a license in order to practice medicine  ( try to remember though that they are only practicing, they are not perfect yet).  Once you have entered into an agreement with the AMA you have bestowed your rights to the AMA. So if you do not practice within the guideline of that organization then your license to practice can be revoked and you can be prosecuted.  You gave them the right to do that when you joined that organization. So if  the AMA registered MD, treats ADD with nutrition rather than ritalin then it is possible for the AMA to send their lawyers and they will likely win.  Because you agreed to their terms and didn't have much choice.  The same goes for an association you join that is for Chiropractors or Psychiatrists.  It is much more challenging if you are  a licensed professional because their guidelines make it difficult to use certain types of equipment.    This indeed is a big problem for those practitioners in the US and in other countries.  Truthfully IMUNE is unlikely to have the power to fight the FDA or the AMA and people like Dr Laibow could lose their license.  But they could lose it for not giving the generally used Rx for any condition.  The language she uses could get her into trouble.  But getting certifications will not.  She can take a knitting certification or a driving certification.  So far their is not liscense required for knitting. ( though a few more insane knitting accidents could change all that, in our too politically correct world.) She can take cooking classes or go the the Cordon Blue for certification.  She can go to IMUNE for certification in biofeedback.  None of those things can get her into trouble.  But if the AMA does not recognize the QXCI and she uses it in her practice she could have problems.   The FDA has no right to prevent certification boards from starting.  Certification boards and associations police themselves. They raise awareness and set standards of practice, provide instruction, give ethical guidelines, and therefore do a tremendous service.   But there are rules about such things as; changing regulations for members, restricting trade, or making false claims to your members or future members if you are an association.  Schools are supposed to provide education  but schools are not required to be accredited.     There are many private universities and schools that have chosen not to become accredited.  Some are excellent full time Universities but  the State of California gets more tax dollars from accredited schools  there is a lot of red tape for a small school.  The forms that have to be filled out ever year for the government  have grown to the point that it take a full time staffer to met those requirements alone!  School officials have to document  deadbeat dad info for state governments who should be doing this.  Instead it become another form of taxation for a small business.  But it is great for the State because they get an extra pair of hands to do their work.  So you see why all the push for accreditation.  The government is forcing accreditation on small schools and many associations are colluding with them. Is it to protect the consumer? Yes in the same way disclaimers on jars of food are now a mile long.  The regulatory process is long.  and some schools may disaggree with some of the rules that accreditation boards  insist on. If a school changes their location they can lose accreditation.  The regulations increase and the government is involved with policing in our homes because we do not take responsibility any longer for the choices we should be able to make on our own.  We should be able to discern if we will learn something from a class and the government should not have to step in to decide.  Indeed it is not the job  of the US government to do that.So they will not be prosecuting IMUNE  for starting an organization or a school they have no grounds to do so.   In addition if Bill owns it, and wants to give his money to Destiny, or any of his children, he is absolutely within his rights!   It seems unprofessional to me, to even bring his children in to this argument.   It is legal to create a "for profit" university or organization.  Non profits get specific perks, such as they do not pay taxes to the federal government, they get purchasing discounts.  There are many organizations in the who should not get those perks but they cheat to get them.  I can think of more than a few organizations for which I would like to revoke their non-profit status.  Nevertheless organizations, associations, schools and all companies can start as for-profit companies and should have that right.And let's not "all hail to the FDA" here.  Anyone who has not followed the recent antics and tactics of that underworld organization is uninformed.  Read  http://www.alliance-natural-health.org. or "Overdosed America: The Broken Promise of American Medicine"  anyway I don't need to go on.I made the same argument  that Kelsey makes, to unreceptive ears a few months ago in this group.  So I won't be defending this email to the armoured masses of emotional plague reactors ready to attack here in the future.  If you have something cogent to say feel free to contact me directly.Marla"Belief is not knowledge.   You only believe something when you do not know it.   In the next room someone might be dancing.  But only if I see it, do I Know it."Search for the truth on your own do not be fooled by what you think is true.  Do your own research.   On Dec 31, 2005, at 1:01 PM, qxci-english wrote: Indeed there is no regulation of any nature.So the upshot is that NBCB and NTCB have no statutory permission and areself established bodies. They call themselves boards.there is nothingillegal about this AND it does not mean that they carry any state authority.They have the good intent of certifying education. This also potentiallyallows for certification bodies to be paper mills. The criteria is thecourse content and validating examination.2. Any other biofeedback license would be illegalIt would be illegal if an independent body was set up in CA and issuedlicensesIMUNE is not issuing a license from within CA. It is issuing a qualificationthat reflects integrity of training as demonstrated by passing anexamination set by_________________________________________________________Message: 5            Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 20:51:04 -0500   From: "Kathy " <kathyqx@...>Subject: Re: IMUNE Biofeedback LicenseRita, do not be defensive, I am not trying to be, but I am trying to make sure you and the others understand the "goal" of IMUNE.  I am not paid to be  on the board, nor are the Dr's or attorneys on the board, although I'm sure there are paid attorneys for documentation that will later need done but they are NOT on the board.|As to your concern for licensing, go for what makes YOU feel comfortable and what you need for now.  But do not rule out the possibility that the  other may turn out to be what you need also down the road.  Let's not jump to the conclusion that this board will or will not provide what is needed but understand the goal of the board is to help ALL who have biofeedback skills, abilities and needs.You are correct on your concerns, and I have not said otherwise, what I did say was to please address the concerns to the powers to be, to see and find out IF they would be resolved, dealt with and provide us with what we truly need.Do I live in the USA, yes, do I live in Wisconsin NO, I live in Michigan and like you I have to watch that what I "Profess" to have IS legal and what I need.  What does that mean?  It means that I am happy to try and help a board made up of Biofeedback specialists, of all fields, from all countries; to TRY and get through all this messy legal junk to get us better protection and serve all of us AS WE ALL NEED.  For the USA, the Canadians, and every other country.I guess my question right now is why is everyone getting in an uproar about  something that is still in the works and has not come to pass.  There is NO license from IMUNE or anywhere else currently for Biofeedback in the USA.Now wouldn't it make since for someone, anyone who knows the field to try and get one established that is legally accepted rather than sit back and do nothing and wait until it possibly becomes a reality of need.  This is not something that can be done overnight, maybe it won't be able to be done at all, or maybe it can.  But as of now what harm is there to attempt to make it better in the future?  If not Bill's original named school "Imune" then someone else's.  Have any choices for someone else?  Id like to hear it.As to the school being originally set up for Destiny's purpose write Bill and ask him.  If it is non-profit it can not be done that way, if it is not non-profit and is a business then who controls any profits down the road?  I guess when it comes to that question I think this way, each of us has set up  a business, some for non-profit, but most as a income whether for you, your boss, a college fund for the profits; the choice belongs to each of us when we set up a business, doesn't it?  As we also choose how much we charge our clients.  But, unless we are a doctor we can only provide a service not prescribe, or heal all this falls into rules and laws we must follow.  The same thing goes with IMUNE or any other company, the laws are there and the board and the company must follow them, if they cannot then they cannot offer the service.And as to me telling people to get an illegal license and being in trouble?? What are you talking about?  Have I once told any of you to get a license or that one is even available?  Please do not place blame on me where there is none.  All I have right now is HOPE and the willingness to try and help make this a LEGAL attempt in the future, worked out WITH the states and other countries.So do we want IMUNE to try and go on or do we want to give up before we even make an attempt?  Many of us know how the attempt went before, that is why  it did not go far and why things have changed.  Lets here it people, why don't we let Bill know as well as the Board of IMUNE, do you want this to be attempted?  Pass or fail, or do you want it over and done with now?  This chat line is for you!  For the purpose of helping each other grow and to help correct misconceptions and to help us support each other It is time to use your voice.Happy Holidays,Yours in Health,Kathy Re: IMUNE Biofeedback LicenseIt seems to me that working under an ordained ministerial certificate should be safe.  However, in California (or any state) you have to be really careful when you're doing any sort of "on the edge" work, including astrology or any sort of "looking into the future."  Laws can vary from city to city.  I knew an extraordinarily gifted psychic in Half Moon Bay who was dragged off to jail for doing readings.  She moved to San Francisco and was safe.  Sometimes there are old laws on the books of different towns that can be interpreted in some creative ways.  Who knows, if someone is after your ass, they might interpret the QX as a form of divination.   is Rotella- In qxci-english , "Rita Baker" <RitaBaker1939@h...>wrote:Well , those attorneys are working for IMUNE and not me or any other biofeedback therapist.  I live in California and in this state the California State Attorneys Office tells me they will prosecute me for using  an illegal license if I obtain an IMUNE biofeedback license.  They also told me they would not prosecute me for having a spiritual healer's license.   Which one do you think might serve me better?Dr. Rima Laibow lives in New York State and her attorney general's office  told her the same thing.  They said if she's convicted they will revoke her medical license.  That office also told her they would prosecute IMUNE for  issuing a worthless license because that's illegal in New York.  She told  them IMUNE is a British Virgin Island corporation and their response was  then the only person they could prosecute would be her.  But of course the IMUNE attorneys are telling you and the board that there's no problem.  For you and the corporation there isn't because the British Virgin Islands won't give you up. But, for those of us in California and New York there is a very definite  problem.  In the USA and Canada as New York and California go the rest of  North America follows.  I think any American or Canadian who gets involved  with an IMUNE Biofeedback license has a big legal problem.Don't you live in the USA ?  Last I heard Wisconsin was still part of  the USA.  Please believe me when I say you could have a very serious legal  problem if you keep telling people to get what appears to be an illegal license. And by the way, the pharmaceutical companies in North America have a lot of money to prove IMUNE is an illegal license set up to subsidize Bill 's daughter Destiny and that's fraud and Bill already has a conviction for fraud in America.  How do you think that's going to play in the press and in the courts of North America and Europe? If you want a license, my suggestion is to go get a legal one. Happy Holidays, Rita Marla S CBBT, CBT, DiPH, ATTrMarla'Apothecary http://www.marlasapothecary.comhttp://www.abbp.orghttp://www.homeopathy.comhttp://www.novalisorganon.com"Governmental responsibility for social problems is based on two considerations:1. Rational    a. To protect individuals from physical or economic harm.    b. To facilitate commerce by building and maintaining roads, waterways, etc.    c. To care for the indigent.2. Irrational and Defensive    a. Based on the inability of individuals to make rational decisions of to be responsible for their own lives."C. Konia,  Journal of Orgonomy.