Re: Real Life Situation...

[Guest guest]

Dear Christian,

I suggest that you report the situation to your regular PIC asap! Reason, while

in your possession, you did not open it. However there is a strict law on

inventory of Scheduled drugs, especially CII's. Therefore while you believe

the floater to be a nicer person, let's face it addiction does have deceit. So

what you do not know is how many tablets were actually removed, if the inventory

is correct now. So if there is any thing missing, the regular pharmacist in

charge may think you did it if the floater says you were in possession as well

as he.

My question is this: WHY or WHAT would make a pharmacist allow a tech to count

out the CII's in retail? either to hide pillerage or because he or she thinks

they are too busy and trusts the pharm tech... BECAUSE TRUST ME ALL PHARMACISTS

KNOW the CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE LAWS!!! They have to or they will find themselves

fined or incarcerated, or both. HE KNEW absolutely that you should not be

counting them out.

This is different in hospital. With the advent of robotics and ADM's like Pyxis,

techs can fill these machines. Yet the inventory of the MAIN narcotic and

scheduled stock is a pharmacist duty. The only legal exception in the US is Vet

or military hospital. Ordering, acceptance of delivery and inventory of

Controlled Substances IS the duty of the pharmacist IN ALL types of pharmacy

practice and is Federal Law. However the dispensing and reporting or the

documenting Controlled Substance use for dispensing in hospital pharmacy is

acceptable in some states, as long as that inventory is not the main. However

this is not to say that the law is not being broken! Because it is daily across

the country.

ONCE again this is WHY universal standardized tech education should be required

across the US and pharmacists should have specific classor CEU in pharmacy tech

Federal and State laws.

Just my two cents,

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS

Founder/Owner

" Christian B. Oliver " <christianboliver@...> wrote:

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what everyone

thinks:

I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount of

this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

hour.

I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were supposed

to have in the C2 lockup.

I printed out the script, put it along with the original prescription

into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before and

who is really a good person to work with.

I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over the

intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock bottle

right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change to

this NDC number. "

About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and I

took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT OF

ME!!!!!

I just about fainted!!!!

I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I am

a Pharmacist!

I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what it

was.

I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is simply

not acceptable at my location.

He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

So I had to act!

Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

[Guest guest]

Hi Christian,

With all due respect, I think you are making an issue out of a non-issue. You

did data entry on the script, chose the wrong NDC, and the pharmacist handed you

the corrected medication and asked you to edit the script and change the NDC. I

don't understand what the problem is. Whether or not it's a CII, you weren't

asked to count the medication and enter the information into the narc book or

however you do it there. He didn't ask you to do anything illegal.

Sincerely,

--

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely

in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,

champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up,

totally worn out and screaming " WOO HOO - what a ride! "

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Christian B. Oliver " <christianboliver@...>

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what everyone

thinks:

I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount of

this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

hour.

I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were supposed

to have in the C2 lockup.

I printed out the script, put it along with the original prescription

into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before and

who is really a good person to work with.

I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over the

intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock bottle

right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change to

this NDC number. "

About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and I

took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT OF

ME!!!!!

I just about fainted!!!!

I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I am

a Pharmacist!

I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what it

was.

I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is simply

not acceptable at my location.

He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

So I had to act!

Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

[Guest guest]

I have a question, I work in washington state, are tech's not allowed to count

c2's, this is something I do all the time, I have to double count them, but

thats about it, I have never heard anything about not handling them, thats for

your help.

Lori

cphtgenius@... wrote:

Hi Christian,

With all due respect, I think you are making an issue out of a non-issue. You

did data entry on the script, chose the wrong NDC, and the pharmacist handed you

the corrected medication and asked you to edit the script and change the NDC. I

don't understand what the problem is. Whether or not it's a CII, you weren't

asked to count the medication and enter the information into the narc book or

however you do it there. He didn't ask you to do anything illegal.

Sincerely,

--

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely

in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,

champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up,

totally worn out and screaming " WOO HOO - what a ride! "

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Christian B. Oliver " <christianboliver@...>

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what everyone

thinks:

I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount of

this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

hour.

I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were supposed

to have in the C2 lockup.

I printed out the script, put it along with the original prescription

into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before and

who is really a good person to work with.

I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over the

intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock bottle

right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change to

this NDC number. "

About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and I

took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT OF

ME!!!!!

I just about fainted!!!!

I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I am

a Pharmacist!

I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what it

was.

I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is simply

not acceptable at my location.

He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

So I had to act!

Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

[Guest guest]

Boy did I misinterpret that one! I thought the RPh was implying for the tech

(Christian) to count out the tablets. But I do believe the pharmacist could have

made this change and I do not think the tech should be in possession of the C2.

the pharmacist only had to change one field. In my opinion the pharmacist put

themselves at risk by allowing the botle to be in possession of the tech. IF the

drug had already been counted out, who was going to check to see if the

'inventory' had changed after Christian were to make the NDC change? If non one

had, and if the tech (in this case Christian) had taken any methodone out,

whowould be liable? Yes the pharmacist. So I do not agree with you , in

" theory " or in practice. HOWEVER I do see where the pharmacists across the US

are most likely doing this because it saves time. But it is very poor practice.

It does not break law if the tech is not counting out the CII drug, BUT it is

placing the pharmacist at risk if the tech is in

possession of the CII botttle especially AFTER the drug was already counted

out. A double checkor double count AFTER the tech is in possession of the bottle

would then make for a better procedure but NOT save time!

Sorry, I do not think this is such good practice. But I do think it is happening

daily across the country: buisness as usual.

Respectfully,

Jeanetta Mastron CPhT BS

Founder/Owner

cphtgenius@... wrote: Hi Christian,

With all due respect, I think you are making an issue out of a non-issue. You

did data entry on the script, chose the wrong NDC, and the pharmacist handed you

the corrected medication and asked you to edit the script and change the NDC. I

don't understand what the problem is. Whether or not it's a CII, you weren't

asked to count the medication and enter the information into the narc book or

however you do it there. He didn't ask you to do anything illegal.

Sincerely,

--

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely

in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,

champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up,

totally worn out and screaming " WOO HOO - what a ride! "

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Christian B. Oliver " <christianboliver@...>

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what everyone

thinks:

I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount of

this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

hour.

I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were supposed

to have in the C2 lockup.

I printed out the script, put it along with the original prescription

into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before and

who is really a good person to work with.

I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over the

intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock bottle

right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change to

this NDC number. "

About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and I

took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT OF

ME!!!!!

I just about fainted!!!!

I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I am

a Pharmacist!

I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what it

was.

I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is simply

not acceptable at my location.

He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

So I had to act!

Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

[Guest guest]

A pefect example of what I meant as I believe this is happening across the US

daily as 'buisness as usual'. CII's I believe are the only scheduled drug to

which I believe the Fed law refers. I will have to check on this law. But as I

recall it the FED law states that " ONLY a pharmacist can..... " , it does not use

the words a 'technician can not', but essentially it MEANS just that .

Further the states can make the FED law more strict but not more lenient.

Therefore IF the FED LAW still states that only a pharmacist can count out CII's

or peform the inventory etc, then this means a state may not allow it either. IF

a particular state makes the law more strict than that is the law in that state

that prevails.

Anyway no matter the law, the FACT remains TECHS are being asked to do things

daily as biz as usual that are NOT within the law. And most of the time it is

understood by the pharmacist, but they do it any way.

I do believe at this time, but will have to look it up again, that per fed law a

technician may not count or inventiory CII drugs.

I probably will not have time to look this up until the weekend. So if anyone

out there has some time......

Thanks

Jeanetta

Lori <truck1997@...> wrote: I have

a question, I work in washington state, are tech's not allowed to count c2's,

this is something I do all the time, I have to double count them, but thats

about it, I have never heard anything about not handling them, thats for your

help.

Lori

cphtgenius@... wrote:

Hi Christian,

With all due respect, I think you are making an issue out of a non-issue. You

did data entry on the script, chose the wrong NDC, and the pharmacist handed you

the corrected medication and asked you to edit the script and change the NDC. I

don't understand what the problem is. Whether or not it's a CII, you weren't

asked to count the medication and enter the information into the narc book or

however you do it there. He didn't ask you to do anything illegal.

Sincerely,

--

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely

in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,

champagne in one hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up,

totally worn out and screaming " WOO HOO - what a ride! "

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " Christian B. Oliver " <christianboliver@...>

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what everyone

thinks:

I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount of

this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

hour.

I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were supposed

to have in the C2 lockup.

I printed out the script, put it along with the original prescription

into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before and

who is really a good person to work with.

I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over the

intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock bottle

right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change to

this NDC number. "

About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and I

took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT OF

ME!!!!!

I just about fainted!!!!

I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I am

a Pharmacist!

I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what it

was.

I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is simply

not acceptable at my location.

He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

So I had to act!

Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

[Guest guest]

I spent hours today trying to find something on the DEA site regarding

handling of CII's - I didn't find anything except regarding signing for and

ordering. There is no Federal restriction on Tech's " handling " (counting)

CII's -

State law and Policy and Procedure of the workplace may further define the

restriction.

Respectfully,

Anne

[Guest guest]

I couldn't find anything on the DEA website either. When I worked in

retail, I often counted CIIs and assisted with inventory. In

hospital, techs restock CIIs (with a witness usually but not always)

all the time. Currently, I package CIIs regularly so I am curious to

find out exactly what is allowed and what isn't. I will continue to

research it too.

Annette, Austin, TX

[Guest guest]

Dear Anne,

As an instructor what do you teach/have you been teaching (before this

thread) about techs handling CII's? CIII - IV?

Thanks

Jeanetta

>

> I spent hours today trying to find something on the DEA site regarding

> handling of CII's - I didn't find anything except regarding signing

for and

> ordering. There is no Federal restriction on Tech's " handling "

(counting) CII's -

> State law and Policy and Procedure of the workplace may further

define the

> restriction.

>

> Respectfully,

> Anne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jeanetta,

I did not open or count out the methadone.

I was simply given the bottle so that I could change the NDC number

to what we had in stock.

In Texas, Technicians absolutely have no business, legal or

otherwise, to be in 'possession' of or be in 'control' of ANY Sched.

2's UNLESS they inform the RPh to take a COMPLETED SCRIPT out of the

lockup at the time of sale to the patient.

If I had not been so busy as to realize what had been put in front of

me, I never would have even touched the stock bottle.

I talked to my PIC about it today, and this situation will never

happen again at my pharmacy!!

I simply had to say something as this situation made me feel

extremely uncomfortable.

Thank You Jeanetta,

Christian B. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

>

> I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation that

> happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what

everyone

> thinks:

>

> I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

>

> I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper amount

of

> this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in an

> hour.

>

> I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

> was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were

supposed

> to have in the C2 lockup.

>

> I printed out the script, put it along with the original

prescription

> into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

>

> The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with before

and

> who is really a good person to work with.

>

> I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer over

the

> intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock

bottle

> right next to my register with a post-it on it that said, " Change

to

> this NDC number. "

>

> About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through' and

I

> took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT

OF

> ME!!!!!

>

> I just about fainted!!!!

>

> I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

> sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL I

am

> a Pharmacist!

>

> I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized what

it

> was.

>

> I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is

simply

> not acceptable at my location.

>

> He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

>

> I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

>

> This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

>

> So I had to act!

>

> Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

>

> ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Annette,

The OLD law was written in such a way that it provided for hospital

pharm techs to make CAD Pumps, PCA,s, deliver Controlled Substances to

Anesthesiologists, OR, ER, the runits with CSAR's etc. BECAUSE it did

not eliminate them.

So event the old law made provisions for hospital techs that are

different than for retail techs.

I need to study the new or changes within the law.

Thanks for your imput, I just wanted to clarify that hospital techs

work has never been a question here for me. The law once made

distinction but I see there is no mention either way.

Thanks

Jeanetta

>

> I couldn't find anything on the DEA website either. When I worked in

> retail, I often counted CIIs and assisted with inventory. In

> hospital, techs restock CIIs (with a witness usually but not always)

> all the time. Currently, I package CIIs regularly so I am curious to

> find out exactly what is allowed and what isn't. I will continue to

> research it too.

>

> Annette, Austin, TX

>

[Guest guest]

Jeanetta,

I should clarify that this applies to RETAIL Techs in Texas.

It is different in hospital pharmacy.

Thanks From The October Sauna of Corpus Christi,

Christian B. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

Hey Jeanetta and Group,

> >

> > I had to really 'put my foot down' on the following situation

that

> > happened to me today, and I would like some input as to what

> everyone

> > thinks:

> >

> > I received a script in the drive through for methadone 10 mg Tab.

> >

> > I checked the 'C2 Book' to make sure that we had the proper

amount

> of

> > this med. before I sent the patient on her way to come back in

an

> > hour.

> >

> > I inputted the script into the computer and chose the brand that

> > was 'highlighted', or what the computer told me that we were

> supposed

> > to have in the C2 lockup.

> >

> > I printed out the script, put it along with the original

> prescription

> > into a basket and gave it to the RPh.

> >

> > The Pharmacist today is a 'floater' who I have worked with

before

> and

> > who is really a good person to work with.

> >

> > I got a tap on my shoulder while I was talking to a customer

over

> the

> > intercom, turned around, and the RPh put a script and a stock

> bottle

> > right next to my register with a post-it on it that

said, " Change

> to

> > this NDC number. "

> >

> > About 10 minutes later when I had 'cleared the drive through'

and

> I

> > took a close look, I realized that he had put METHADONE IN FRONT

> OF

> > ME!!!!!

> >

> > I just about fainted!!!!

> >

> > I took the stock bottle back over to him and told him that I am

> > sorry, but under no circumstances will I handle Sched. 2's UNTIL

I

> am

> > a Pharmacist!

> >

> > I felt really weird when I picked this bottle up and realized

what

> it

> > was.

> >

> > I'm not sure how he runs his home store, but this practice is

> simply

> > not acceptable at my location.

> >

> > He was not upset or anything when I voiced my concerns.

> >

> > I know that I am not in any sort of 'trouble' or anything...

> >

> > This situation just really made me feel 'weird'.

> >

> > So I had to act!

> >

> > Best Wishes From Tropical Texas,

> >

> > ChristianB. Oliver RCPhT (TX)

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I teach that it depends on the state law and the policies and procedures.

Most workplaces in AZ and LA do not prohibit the techs from handling CII's.

Always double counted. Require access through the pharmacist (key for the lock

box).

Anne