Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 --Geeta, How long has your son been taking the enzymes? My son was extremely obsessive before enzymes and it took about 4 weeks for the obsessive behavior to go away. Also what about yeast? My son is currently having a yeast flare-up and we had to put him on nystatin and now we are having a problem with obsessing during the " die-off " . Just a thought. Patti - In @y..., " gorugallu " <gorugallu@y...> wrote: > I would like to know about any supplements which will help with my > son's obsessive behavior? He is on Houstonni's enzymes. We just > started chelation with DMSA this weekend. Our neurologist suggested > PROZAC, but my son did not tolerate it. And, Prozac is my last resort. > > Thanks > Geeta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 Geeta, If it is related to die-off, activated charcoal works pretty well to relieve the symptoms. Otherwise, magnesium in a soluble form (not oxide or carbonate) is good. I use homemade epsom salt oil and cream, and Natural Calm magnesium citrate from the health food store. The epsom salts also supply sulfur which helps with hyperness. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 Geeta, After a few months on the Houston enzymes, my son's obsessive behaviors stopped. I only see them very occasionally now. If your child has been on the enzymes with all foods less than three months, I would hold off on trying anything else a little while longer to see if the enzymes help with the obsessions. > I would like to know about any supplements which will help with my > son's obsessive behavior? He is on Houstonni's enzymes. We just > started chelation with DMSA this weekend. Our neurologist suggested > PROZAC, but my son did not tolerate it. And, Prozac is my last resort. > > Thanks > Geeta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2001 Report Share Posted December 21, 2001 Patti, My son has been on enzymes for more than 5 weeks now with all the food at home. He is at school from 9am to 3pm. He is taking probiotics ( culturelle and lacto-tri-blend ). He is on gfcfsf diet. He is also taking olive oil and biocidin. How do you test for yeast. I have given him oil of oregano with no reaction at all. Thanks Geeta > > I would like to know about any supplements which will help with my > > son's obsessive behavior? He is on Houstonni's enzymes. We just > > started chelation with DMSA this weekend. Our neurologist suggested > > PROZAC, but my son did not tolerate it. And, Prozac is my last resort. > > > > Thanks > > Geeta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2001 Report Share Posted December 22, 2001 Once my daughter was able to tolerate the Peptizyde full strength in combo with the Zyme, her obsessive behaviors started disappearing and we were able to successfully wean her off Luvox. This took about a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 > Listmates, > > Has anyone ever seen an increase of obsessive behavior when using > glutathione? If you have, can you tell us about it? > > What about DMG or TMG? > > Has the introduction of any other supplement brought on obsessive behavior? > > Thanks! > > Hi, I have not used glutathione, and my son did have a true PANDAS reaction 18 months ago with 2 subsquent exacerbations, however we have seen a true increase in OCD with supplements, yeast flares and fatique. I suspect my son is a overmethylator and we literally have seen make increase in OCD with any supplement that promotes methylation..so yes to DMG/TMG, we also saw it with enyzmes and anything but very low dose 5-HTP, hope this helps Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 , I recently made some changes- my son started the Brainchild SII vitamins and minerals. BCII has TMG, plus I started TMG/folinic/b-12 again and his obsessions are considerably worse than they have ever been. Earlier this week I eliniated the TMG trio, and today, I reduced the dose of the BC II. His day at school went much better today. Trade off, because his vocab seems worse. The recent OCD is WAY TO MUCH to bear. The obsessions essentially control his entire day. [ ] obsessive behavior Listmates, Has anyone ever seen an increase of obsessive behavior when using glutathione? If you have, can you tell us about it? What about DMG or TMG? Has the introduction of any other supplement brought on obsessive behavior? Thanks! ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 The more toxic I get the more o/c I get. I find I start wanting all the bottles to be lined up, labels out, dish towels folded as perfectly as possible. Normally I don't care but I get serious comfort from doing that when I'm toxic. Ahhh...just one more fun mercury symptom...I wouldn't worry, with me it always passes. Jen > > Listmates, > > > > Has anyone ever seen an increase of obsessive behavior when using > > glutathione? If you have, can you tell us about it? > > > > What about DMG or TMG? > > > > Has the introduction of any other supplement brought on obsessive > behavior? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Hi, I have not used glutathione, and my son did have a true PANDAS > reaction 18 months ago with 2 subsquent exacerbations, however we > have seen a true increase in OCD with supplements, yeast flares and > fatique. I suspect my son is a overmethylator and we literally have > seen make increase in OCD with any supplement that promotes > methylation..so yes to DMG/TMG, we also saw it with enyzmes and > anything but very low dose 5-HTP, hope this helps Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2004 Report Share Posted February 12, 2004 Dear , Yes, I think that I have seen an increase in obsessive behavior in the triplets since we started TMG. I also feel that we have seen an improvement in speech/communication so I have cut back their dose to 500mg BID (6 yrs old/50 pounds). We are giving folinic too, but I am going to try Folapro shortly. Do you have any idea why this might happen? Owens <lwo@...> wrote: Listmates, Has anyone ever seen an increase of obsessive behavior when using glutathione? If you have, can you tell us about it? What about DMG or TMG? Has the introduction of any other supplement brought on obsessive behavior? Thanks! ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Looks like a low # of antioxidants to me! ;} ----- Original Message ----- From: jwwright <jwwright@...> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:14:46 -0500 Subject: [ ] obsessive behavior Anyone who thinks CRers are O/C (obsessive/compulisive) should view the on now NGC 276, explorations: age wars. These folks are taking 70 nti oxidant pills per day. PArt on CR also. regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Hi , How many A/O pills do you take? Also shown is Young doing CR at 42 yo, <1500 Kcals per day, so called "radical" vegetarian diet, has a nice carotid artery, also has a problem with osteo - hip and spine. He looks thin, 6' tall, 58 kg, ~128#, bmi <18. I calculate his BMR at 1504. Adding 200 for routine mechanical, he's eating too little to sustain that weight. That intake should get him to ~100#. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dowling Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [ ] obsessive behavior Looks like a low # of antioxidants to me! ;}----- Original Message -----From: jwwright <jwwright@...>Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:14:46 -0500Subject: [ ] obsessive behavior Anyone who thinks CRers are O/C (obsessive/compulisive) should viewthe on now NGC 276, explorations: age wars.These folks are taking 70 nti oxidant pills per day. PArt on CR also.regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Depends. Lately, I've been thinking about consolidating a bit with something like LEF's LE mix, so a single pill or coupla pills with many ingredients would take the place of the many individual powders and tablets I currently take. For a shorthand approximation, I take pretty much what Wakfer takes, with some minor differences. He has listed his regimen on his website: http://morelife.org/personal/health/his-regimen.html Lots of great information at this website, BTW, relating to nutrition, CR, supplementation, exercise, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: jwwright <jwwright@...> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:02:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [ ] obsessive behavior Hi , How many A/O pills do you take? Also shown is Young doing CR at 42 yo, <1500 Kcals per day, so called " radical " vegetarian diet, has a nice carotid artery, also has a problem with osteo - hip and spine. He looks thin, 6' tall, 58 kg, ~128#, bmi <18. I calculate his BMR at 1504. Adding 200 for routine mechanical, he's eating too little to sustain that weight. That intake should get him to ~100#. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dowling Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 2:27 PM Subject: Re: [ ] obsessive behavior Looks like a low # of antioxidants to me! ;} ----- Original Message ----- From: jwwright <jwwright@...> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:14:46 -0500 Subject: [ ] obsessive behavior Anyone who thinks CRers are O/C (obsessive/compulisive) should view the on now NGC 276, explorations: age wars. These folks are taking 70 nti oxidant pills per day. PArt on CR also. regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 From what I see of his protocol, most of the nutrients he takes are synthetic or inorganic which is a waste of money (at the least) when there are natural forms available in food or supplements. What looks money-worthy is the standardized herbal extracts and the amino acids due to LEF's high quality control. Despite all these supplements, why does this guy need a protocol for when " Under the Weather " or still take prescription medicine? That should indicate volumes about the efficacy of the supplements. Logan > Depends. > > Lately, I've been thinking about consolidating a bit with something > like LEF's LE mix, so a single pill or coupla pills with many > ingredients would take the place of the many individual powders and > tablets I currently take. For a shorthand approximation, I take pretty > much what Wakfer takes, with some minor differences. He has > listed his regimen on his website: > > http://morelife.org/personal/health/his-regimen.html > > Lots of great information at this website, BTW, relating to nutrition, > CR, supplementation, exercise, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 is has a scientific approach to life extension. His protocol is based upon peer reviewed studies of the supplements and chemicals he takes. His website has extensive references to such studies along with synopses of many. Obviously, WRT life extension, all of us a making (hopefully educated) guesses about what will result in the best outcome. On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:54:51 -0000, loganruns73 <loganruns73@...> wrote: > From what I see of his protocol, most of the nutrients he takes are > synthetic or inorganic which is a waste of money (at the least) when > there are natural forms available in food or supplements. What looks > money-worthy is the standardized herbal extracts and the amino acids > due to LEF's high quality control. > > Despite all these supplements, why does this guy need a protocol for > when " Under the Weather " or still take prescription medicine? That > should indicate volumes about the efficacy of the supplements. > > Logan > > > > Depends. > > > > Lately, I've been thinking about consolidating a bit with something > > like LEF's LE mix, so a single pill or coupla pills with many > > ingredients would take the place of the many individual powders and > > tablets I currently take. For a shorthand approximation, I take > pretty > > much what Wakfer takes, with some minor differences. He has > > listed his regimen on his website: > > > > http://morelife.org/personal/health/his-regimen.html > > > > Lots of great information at this website, BTW, relating to > nutrition, > > CR, supplementation, exercise, etc. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 In a message dated 9/26/04 8:58:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jwwright@... writes: until I quit eating the essentials, methionine and cysteine, right? but, IIRC, cysteine (in the form of dipeptide cystine) is the limiting factor in synthesis of glutathione, the "master antioxidant". World's Healthiest Foods likes cysteine: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=54 but strangely, they do not recommend cold-processed whey as a source and btw, methionine is used to synthesize cysteine side note: cysteine is supposedly a cure or preventive for hangover. Many folk cures from way back include raw egg yolk. Raw egg yolk contains, you guessed it, cysteine. -- Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 I took a look at the guy's blood work results posted on the site to " quantify " the effect of the CR and supplements. I perceive these problems: 1. Most of the liver enzymes are elevated (SGPT is outside normal range) and have generally gone up over time. 2. Although still barely within the optimal range, LDL has been steadily increasing over time. 3. TC may be sub-optimal depending on what you believe is a higher risk factor for an older guy: ischemic or hemorrhage stroke. 4. Fasting glucose is not ideal, although within optimal range. 5. TSH is sub-optimal. 6. FSH is sub-optimal. 7. Homocysteine is borderline sub-optimal. 8. Testosterone (free) is sub-optimal. 9. Testosterone (total) is sub-optimal. 10. Cortisol is borderline high. To me, assuming no other pathology, #1 is suggestive of additional demands on the liver to detoxify all the synthetic substances the guy is taking. SGPT being outside range can be suggestive of liver disease. #2 suggest the guy's diet is/becoming inadequate in Omega-6. (Is the guy CR or CRON?) #7 suggests supplemention being non-effective. I believe homocysteine may be a difficult factor to control via diet alone. Anyone know about that? Otherwise for the rest, the guy needs aggressive hormone replacement therapy. But I suspect this is an issue we all face, exacerbated by CR. Logan > is has a scientific approach to life extension. His protocol is > based upon peer reviewed studies of the supplements and chemicals he > takes. His website has extensive references to such studies along > with synopses of many. Obviously, WRT life extension, all of us a > making (hopefully educated) guesses about what will result in the best > outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 In a message dated 9/26/04 8:26:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, perspect1111@... writes: Isn't the current 'standard' method for lowering homocysteine increasing B-6, B-12 and folic acid? Yer certainly do not want higher than average homocysteine, at least according to the people at Tufts ........ Bloomberg et al. Let's not forget the doctor at Harvard (some 25-30 years ago) named McCully, who noticed severe atherosclerosis in some very young patients, amybe 2 or 3 years old. They also had very high homocysteine. Because he advocated folate (and the other associated B vitamins) as a preventive to CVD, he was driven out of Harvard. It took a long time for him to be vindicated. I think of that every time that I see Harvard being touted as an authoritative source of opinion on anything. -- Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Yeah, being perfectly healthy by lab values is not typical of practitioners of CR, either. Most have low WBC #s, high cortisol, low testosterone, etc. (Some of the same findings you've mentioned for ). Some have noted poor responses to acute glucose loads, and other " abnormalities. " On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:28:23 -0000, loganruns73 <loganruns73@...> wrote: > I took a look at the guy's blood work results posted on the site > to " quantify " the effect of the CR and supplements. I perceive these > problems: > > 1. Most of the liver enzymes are elevated (SGPT is outside normal > range) and have generally gone up over time. > 2. Although still barely within the optimal range, LDL has been > steadily increasing over time. > 3. TC may be sub-optimal depending on what you believe is a higher > risk factor for an older guy: ischemic or hemorrhage stroke. > 4. Fasting glucose is not ideal, although within optimal range. > 5. TSH is sub-optimal. > 6. FSH is sub-optimal. > 7. Homocysteine is borderline sub-optimal. > 8. Testosterone (free) is sub-optimal. > 9. Testosterone (total) is sub-optimal. > 10. Cortisol is borderline high. > > To me, assuming no other pathology, #1 is suggestive of additional > demands on the liver to detoxify all the synthetic substances the guy > is taking. SGPT being outside range can be suggestive of liver > disease. > > #2 suggest the guy's diet is/becoming inadequate in Omega-6. (Is the > guy CR or CRON?) > > #7 suggests supplemention being non-effective. I believe > homocysteine may be a difficult factor to control via diet alone. > Anyone know about that? > > Otherwise for the rest, the guy needs aggressive hormone replacement > therapy. But I suspect this is an issue we all face, exacerbated by > CR. > > Logan > > > > is has a scientific approach to life extension. His protocol is > > > > based upon peer reviewed studies of the supplements and chemicals he > > takes. His website has extensive references to such studies along > > with synopses of many. Obviously, WRT life extension, all of us a > > making (hopefully educated) guesses about what will result in the > best > > outcome. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 IMO, Tom ( I knew him as Tom before he gave out his real name) is no slouch for analyzing what he takes and why he takes it. If you have a question - ask him - a friendly guy. you'll get more info than you ever wanted. But I agree that too many "toxins" can raise the liver enzymes. I would insist that anything that raises mine, other than medications, I would quit. That goes for non-synthetic stuff also. That's why I like to get my nutrients from foods (mostly). BTW, the ranges for SGOT and SGPT seem to change with the lab/patient. I assume you mean sub-optimal to be not out of range, just not centered in the range? Homocysteine is in the methionine > cysteine > homocysteine biochem loop and I never understood how anyone could think about controlling it. Maybe by cutting methionine intake AND cysteine intake. Oddly, vegans are reported to have high homocys. regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: loganruns73 Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: [ ] Re: obsessive behavior I took a look at the guy's blood work results posted on the site to "quantify" the effect of the CR and supplements. I perceive these problems:1. Most of the liver enzymes are elevated (SGPT is outside normal range) and have generally gone up over time.2. Although still barely within the optimal range, LDL has been steadily increasing over time.3. TC may be sub-optimal depending on what you believe is a higher risk factor for an older guy: ischemic or hemorrhage stroke.4. Fasting glucose is not ideal, although within optimal range.5. TSH is sub-optimal.6. FSH is sub-optimal.7. Homocysteine is borderline sub-optimal.8. Testosterone (free) is sub-optimal.9. Testosterone (total) is sub-optimal.10. Cortisol is borderline high.To me, assuming no other pathology, #1 is suggestive of additional demands on the liver to detoxify all the synthetic substances the guy is taking. SGPT being outside range can be suggestive of liver disease.#2 suggest the guy's diet is/becoming inadequate in Omega-6. (Is the guy CR or CRON?)#7 suggests supplemention being non-effective. I believe homocysteine may be a difficult factor to control via diet alone. Anyone know about that?Otherwise for the rest, the guy needs aggressive hormone replacement therapy. But I suspect this is an issue we all face, exacerbated by CR.Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hi JW: Isn't the current 'standard' method for lowering homocysteine increasing B-6, B-12 and folic acid? Yer certainly do not want higher than average homocysteine, at least according to the people at Tufts ........ Bloomberg et al. Rodney. --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > IMO, Tom ( I knew him as Tom before he gave out his real name) is no slouch for analyzing what he takes and why he takes it. If you have a question - ask him - a friendly guy. you'll get more info than you ever wanted. But I agree that too many " toxins " can raise the liver enzymes. I would insist that anything that raises mine, other than medications, I would quit. That goes for non-synthetic stuff also. That's why I like to get my nutrients from foods (mostly). > > BTW, the ranges for SGOT and SGPT seem to change with the lab/patient. > > I assume you mean sub-optimal to be not out of range, just not centered in the range? > > Homocysteine is in the methionine > cysteine > homocysteine biochem loop and I never understood how anyone could think about controlling it. Maybe by cutting methionine intake AND cysteine intake. Oddly, vegans are reported to have high homocys. > > regards. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: loganruns73 > > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 4:28 PM > Subject: [ ] Re: obsessive behavior > > > I took a look at the guy's blood work results posted on the site > to " quantify " the effect of the CR and supplements. I perceive these > problems: > > 1. Most of the liver enzymes are elevated (SGPT is outside normal > range) and have generally gone up over time. > 2. Although still barely within the optimal range, LDL has been > steadily increasing over time. > 3. TC may be sub-optimal depending on what you believe is a higher > risk factor for an older guy: ischemic or hemorrhage stroke. > 4. Fasting glucose is not ideal, although within optimal range. > 5. TSH is sub-optimal. > 6. FSH is sub-optimal. > 7. Homocysteine is borderline sub-optimal. > 8. Testosterone (free) is sub-optimal. > 9. Testosterone (total) is sub-optimal. > 10. Cortisol is borderline high. > > To me, assuming no other pathology, #1 is suggestive of additional > demands on the liver to detoxify all the synthetic substances the guy > is taking. SGPT being outside range can be suggestive of liver > disease. > > #2 suggest the guy's diet is/becoming inadequate in Omega-6. (Is the > guy CR or CRON?) > > #7 suggests supplemention being non-effective. I believe > homocysteine may be a difficult factor to control via diet alone. > Anyone know about that? > > Otherwise for the rest, the guy needs aggressive hormone replacement > therapy. But I suspect this is an issue we all face, exacerbated by > CR. > > Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 That's what I hear. (saw palmetto is supposed to work too) You may not want it, but I'm not sure it's "curable". It may be just a feature of the whole problem. Seems to me, the body can run that biochem loop to get what homocysteine it wants until I quit eating the essentials, methionine and cysteine, right? Anyway, my doc won't measure stuff he can't treat. That and CRP and some other stuff. I gotta figure out how to get medicare to pay for all these things some folks think are important. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rodney Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 7:25 PM Subject: [ ] Re: obsessive behavior Hi JW:Isn't the current 'standard' method for lowering homocysteine increasing B-6, B-12 and folic acid?Yer certainly do not want higher than average homocysteine, at least according to the people at Tufts ........ Bloomberg et al.Rodney.> IMO, Tom ( I knew him as Tom before he gave out his real name) is no slouch for analyzing what he takes and why he takes it. If you have a question - ask him - a friendly guy. you'll get more info than you ever wanted. But I agree that too many "toxins" can raise the liver enzymes. I would insist that anything that raises mine, other than medications, I would quit. That goes for non-synthetic stuff also. That's why I like to get my nutrients from foods (mostly). > > BTW, the ranges for SGOT and SGPT seem to change with the lab/patient. > > I assume you mean sub-optimal to be not out of range, just not centered in the range?> > Homocysteine is in the methionine > cysteine > homocysteine biochem loop and I never understood how anyone could think about controlling it. Maybe by cutting methionine intake AND cysteine intake. Oddly, vegans are reported to have high homocys. > > regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Optimal is the range scientifically shown to minimize/prevent disease. It's usually in the lower or upper quadrants of the lab reference range, sometimes both outside and inside. So sub-optimal means outside the optimal range. A complex example is fasting glucose which ranges from 70-100 for optimal, 70-120+ which is the lab reference range and under 86 which is ideal. Logan --- In , " jwwright " <jwwright@e...> wrote: > I assume you mean sub-optimal to be not out of range, just not centered in the range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Where are the optimal ranges/numbers published? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: loganruns73 Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: [ ] Re: obsessive behavior Optimal is the range scientifically shown to minimize/prevent disease. It's usually in the lower or upper quadrants of the lab reference range, sometimes both outside and inside. So sub-optimal means outside the optimal range. A complex example is fasting glucose which ranges from 70-100 for optimal, 70-120+ which is the lab reference range and under 86 which is ideal.Logan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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