Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 The paper provided by about mice on intermittent fasting regimens provided a lot of interesting information. http://snipurl.com/4d7w <Food was provided ad libitum (AL) until 9 weeks of age.> This is equivalent to starting a CR program at the human age of 8. <Food was provided or removed at 10 a.m.> Only daytime feeding. Not like the schedules that some of you have mentioned recently that start at 6 PM. <Mice on the limited daily feeding (LDF) regimen consumed 40% less food as provided: this was reflected in their body weights, which were 49% lower than those of the AL-fed group.> CR has an impact on the ability to grow. Sometimes I have wondered whether nationalities that are small in stature (e.g., Vietnamese) have at some time in their history survived long-term famines. Although it seems that once the small body frame has been genetically inherited, longevity does not necessarily follow. <A previous study compared the effects of LDF and intermittent (alternate-day) fasting (IF) on life span in male C57BL/6 mice, with the two dietary regimens resulting in similar life-span extension despite a clear difference in body weight between the two groups. The present study establishes that it is the ability of this strain of mice to gorge on days when food is provided that allows them to maintain nearly AL body weight when fed every other day, and they thereby avoid a long-term calorie deficit.> This seems to reinforce the idea that eating only when you are REALLY hungry may be better than eating regularly spaced meals. A schedule of eating one 2000-calorie meal per day (early in the day) may be a less strict implementation of IF for humans. Implemented as in the experiment, we would have to eat one 4000-calorie meal every other day. Some people would not consider that as " gorging " . <Fasting is known to result in an increased production of ketone bodies, which can be used as an energy source and are known to provide some protective effects. Mice on the IF diet exhibited a 2-fold increase in the fasting serum concentration of beta-hydroxybutyrate compared with mice fed AL. In contrast, the beta-hydroxybutyrate concentration of mice on the LDF diet were decreased compared with mice fed AL> The metabolic pathways used by the body during fasting may be the reason that CR extends lifespan. IF appears to be a controlled version of yo-yo dieting that has positive benefits. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I have been fascinated by Lee Shurie's experience with meal timing, and the longevity aspects of intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting preserves muscles which I find more appealing than the emaciated look obtained from CR. On further re-reading of the paper on intermittent fasting which was referenced by Dowling (http://snipurl.com/4d7w), I had some questions about the procedures for feeding the mice, so I wrote to Mark Mattson from NIH. Here is what he replied: >>>> Dear , In the intermittent fasting ( " meal-skipping " )protocol we use in rats and mice, the animals go 24 hr without food, followed by 24 hr with access to as much food as they want to eat, followed by a 24 fast, etc. We will be starting a very well controlled human study in September in which group of subjects will eat three meals per day and another group will eat the same amount and types of food within a 3 hour time period in the late afternoon early evening. The design is 2 months on diet, two months off diet, cross-over and 2 months on diet. Will we be measuring a large number of physiological, biochemical, and molecular variables with a particular focus on risk factors for diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I have received emails and phone calls from quite a few folks who began eating one meal per day or fasting every other day, who claim improvements in their health and productivity. Best Regards, Mark >>>> We have had some discussions on this board about whether it is better to eat one meal per day or to spread the food consumption throughout the day. Hopefully, Mattson's study will provide some answers. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 It will be fascinating to see the results of Mark Mattson's study. Best, Lee -----Original Message-----From: citpeks [mailto:citpeks@...]Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:19 PM Subject: [ ] Re: intermittent fastingI have been fascinated by Lee Shurie's experience with meal timing,and the longevity aspects of intermittent fasting. Intermittentfasting preserves muscles which I find more appealing than theemaciated look obtained from CR. On further re-reading of the paper on intermittent fasting which wasreferenced by Dowling (http://snipurl.com/4d7w), I hadsome questions about the procedures for feeding the mice, so I wroteto Mark Mattson from NIH. Here is what he replied:>>>>Dear , In the intermittent fasting ("meal-skipping")protocol we use inrats and mice, the animals go 24 hr without food, followed by 24 hrwith access to as much food as they want to eat, followed by a 24fast, etc. We will be starting a very well controlled human study inSeptember in which group of subjects will eat three meals per day andanother group will eat the same amount and types of food within a 3hour time period in the late afternoon early evening. The design is 2months on diet, two months off diet, cross-over and 2 months on diet.Will we be measuring a large number of physiological, biochemical,and molecular variables with a particular focus on risk factors fordiabetes and cardiovascular disease. I have received emails andphone calls from quite a few folks who began eating one meal per dayor fasting every other day, who claim improvements in their health andproductivity.Best Regards,Mark >>>>We have had some discussions on this board about whether it is betterto eat one meal per day or to spread the food consumption throughoutthe day. Hopefully, Mattson's study will provide some answers.Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Tony -- Can you share Mattson's email address? I live across the street from NIH, and would love to be a subject in his study. I would hope to be assigned to the fasting group! Thanks, --- In , " citpeks " <citpeks@y...> wrote: > I have been fascinated by Lee Shurie's experience with meal timing, > and the longevity aspects of intermittent fasting. Intermittent > fasting preserves muscles which I find more appealing than the > emaciated look obtained from CR. > > On further re-reading of the paper on intermittent fasting which was > referenced by Dowling (http://snipurl.com/4d7w), I had > some questions about the procedures for feeding the mice, so I wrote > to Mark Mattson from NIH. Here is what he replied: > > >>>> > Dear , > In the intermittent fasting ( " meal-skipping " )protocol we use in > rats and mice, the animals go 24 hr without food, followed by 24 hr > with access to as much food as they want to eat, followed by a 24 > fast, etc. We will be starting a very well controlled human study in > September in which group of subjects will eat three meals per day and > another group will eat the same amount and types of food within a 3 > hour time period in the late afternoon early evening. The design is 2 > months on diet, two months off diet, cross-over and 2 months on diet. > Will we be measuring a large number of physiological, biochemical, > and molecular variables with a particular focus on risk factors for > diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I have received emails and > phone calls from quite a few folks who began eating one meal per day > or fasting every other day, who claim improvements in their health and > productivity. > Best Regards, > Mark > >>>> > > We have had some discussions on this board about whether it is better > to eat one meal per day or to spread the food consumption throughout > the day. Hopefully, Mattson's study will provide some answers. > > Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 --- " Lee A. Shurie " <lee@...> wrote: > It will be fascinating to see the results of Mark Mattson's study. > > Best, > Lee Canary Peg here: Yes I will be interested too. I see from the Mark Mattson (NIH) reference below that the meals in one group will be within a three hour period - late afternoon and early evening - and I'm thinking that this might be better for me rather than the 6PM start. The 6PM start seems to mess up my circadian rhythms making sleep a delayed process. Could this be something to do with cortisol levels? So for the present I'm eating in the 3 - 6PM time frame. Canary Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: citpeks [mailto:citpeks@...] > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 5:19 PM > > Subject: [ ] Re: intermittent fasting > > > I have been fascinated by Lee Shurie's experience with meal timing, > and the longevity aspects of intermittent fasting. Intermittent > fasting preserves muscles which I find more appealing than the > emaciated look obtained from CR. > > On further re-reading of the paper on intermittent fasting which > was > referenced by Dowling (http://snipurl.com/4d7w), I had > some questions about the procedures for feeding the mice, so I > wrote > to Mark Mattson from NIH. Here is what he replied: > > >>>> > Dear , > In the intermittent fasting ( " meal-skipping " )protocol we use in > rats and mice, the animals go 24 hr without food, followed by 24 hr > with access to as much food as they want to eat, followed by a 24 > fast, etc. We will be starting a very well controlled human study > in > September in which group of subjects will eat three meals per day > and > another group will eat the same amount and types of food within a 3 > hour time period in the late afternoon early evening. The design > is 2 > months on diet, two months off diet, cross-over and 2 months on > diet. > Will we be measuring a large number of physiological, biochemical, > and molecular variables with a particular focus on risk factors for > diabetes and cardiovascular disease. I have received emails and > phone calls from quite a few folks who began eating one meal per > day > or fasting every other day, who claim improvements in their health > and > productivity. > Best Regards, > Mark > >>>> > > We have had some discussions on this board about whether it is > better > to eat one meal per day or to spread the food consumption > throughout > the day. Hopefully, Mattson's study will provide some answers. > > Tony ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 > It seems to me that until we have decent empirical evidence of the > effects of these things on people on calorically restricted diets any > beliefs we have about the effects of fluctuating caloric intake are > all a stab in the dark. I think this is true and probably what most of us are doing - a stab in the dark. We can incorporate much info but doing that is difficult when one understanding of practicing CRON is replaced by another on the following day or even the same day. I have done much reading on the other group - in Digest form - and a recent one was over 100 k's long. I think I have got something straight in my head and then read another entry which is contradictory. What I'm trying to say is that there are certain obvious health benefits that one learns by simply having made mistakes and having learned from those mistakes. Like Rodney - I think he has stated this previously - I didn't eat junk food for the past 20 years. However I did overeat. In my last post I had said that the 6 PM mealtime was too late for me and I'm finding either 3 or 4 PM works best for my first meal. It's still working that way for me. What I'm working on now is analyzing how my body feels after certain foods - you'd think I'd have done this years ago - but now I'm doin it with more finesse. I dont have a glucometer or whatever for checking my glucose but I know that certain foods make me quite lethargic so am emphasizing the low glycemic load foods to see if this situation improves. Then I also read that fat metabolism is more difficult in older people so this possibly limits my preferred type of diet - I love almonds. Do I up the protein to 50% or not. right now I'm not sure *how* the beef is raised and no-one else seems to know either so until I can get organic in the US I guess I'll stick with chicken and fish. The salmon here is from fish farms but there are many fish that the locals eat - types of sardines, sunrays etc that I need to try. I'm sure I'll be changing my mind quite regularly but still find the info on this list and the other one - if I can wade through it - amazing and I'm very thankful for it, but sometimes it's just a matter of 'what makes sense' IMO So much for my ranting. Like ohers have said the subject of CRON is a difficult one with relatives :-( and I wish I knew of some easy way to do that. Canary Peg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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