Re: WFN Coconut Powder another question

[Guest guest]

I do not know if I uderstood this right, but I believe that Bruce Fife says

powdered milk and eggs are horrible because the fat is oxidised in the

processing. I assume maybe that is not the case for coconut milk powder? Do

you know what I am talking about or whether it is a concern or not and why? It

sounds like a good product and I would like to try it, but i wonder about this

oxidised fat in powdered products.

Annette Fischer <annette@...> wrote:Hello Alobar,

There are quite a few coconut milk powders produced. The best ones have

very little maltodextrin in them. The way to know which ones are of good

quality if you go to an Asian store, is to look at the nutritional facts. A

good coconut milk powder will contain about 65% fat. The higher the percent

of maltodextrin, the lower the percent of fat. A coconut milk powder that

has the 65% fat will only have a few percent maltodextrin. For example, out

of 2/3 cup of the coconut milk powder we sell (50gms) there is 34 grams of

fat. That is 68% fat. In the same 50gms of coconut milk powder there is 10

grams of carbohydrate, which makes it 20% Carbohydrate, and there is 6gms of

protein or 12%. You get this by taking the grams of the carbohydrate or fat

or protein and dividing it by the total grams of the sample.

They use maltodextrin as a flocculating agent. Apparently they need just a

little higher percent solids for the process than pure coconut milk

contains. Our powder is a good one with over 65% fat (according to their

analysis it is 68%) and the very low % maltodextrin. We chose the one with

the highest percent fat and the lowest percent maltodextrin. In our

searching we found several coconut milk powders that are only 40% fat. In

most Asian store 40% is the norm.

Maltodextrin can actually be used as a filler as well. The more

maltodextrin you add to the milk the cheaper it is to produce and the

sweeter its taste. Unaware customers who do not read labels might prefer

the lower quality milks, and you know how many people are looking for low

fat foods!!!

We have been working with one company to totally take out the maltodextrin

and use cassava root powder in its place. Cassava root looks like a potato,

grows well in the Philippines and is what we call tapioca here in the US.

The sprayers need to be cleaned more frequently when cassava is used and so

it would be more expensive. Hence, we decided to offer the good powder with

the maltodextrin and get some customer feed back before they do a large

quantity, just special for us, with the cassava. We wanted first to see how

much of an interest there is in the US.

I would welcome anyone's thoughts on the coconut milk powder if they try it.

We have made ice cream, frosting, curries, etc with it. It is interesting.

Many of the Asian people I have talked with prefer the milk powder to the

canned milk because you can make thicker pastes, curries, etc just by adding

less water and therefore cooking/heating their food less. But we are still

in the experimenting stage in our home. One thing I know for sure, It is

certainly very convenient and can make some very nice cream sauces, etc.

Here is what I have found with the diabetics who have given me feedback:

Since the fat content (mostly MCT's of course) is so high, even though there

is some simple sugar, there is very little glycemic response. In 2/3 cup

(50gm) of the powder there is 10 grams of carbohydrate. That is really a

lot of powder. So you can make some pretty low carb ice cream or frosting.

Fats, Proteins, and dietary fiber all slow down the absorption of

carbohydrates into the bloodstream. The fat content in the coconut milk

powder seems to effectively help those few carbs that are there to enter

more slowly into the body than many other foods.

Two-thirds of the carbs are made up of simple sugars, 1/3 are complex carbs.

There is no dietary fiber it the milk, it is totally water soluble. The

milk powder would not be a low carb as canned or tetra pak coconut milk, but

it definitely has its place in my kitchen. The tetra pak milk is very

smooth, so I prefer it for drinking out of the carton. The coconut milk

powder actually might be nicer for making dishes whether it be ice cream,

sauces or curries.

Annette

SPAM: SPAM: Re: WFN Coconut Powder

WFN Coconut Powder

> Darrell,

>

> I just had this question on the phone and I honestly do not know

what to

> tell you. The coconut milk powder is unique in that you can make

as thick

> (rich) of a milk (or cream) or as thin of a milk as you want.

Usually if

> you are making a pudding or dessert you want it thicker. Someone

took 1/2

> cup of hot water and 1/2 cup of coconut milk powder and mixed it

with a

> fork. They they added another 1/2 of the powder and when that was

mixed in

> the added another 1/2 cup. Eventually he had about 3 cups of

coconut milk

> powder added to the 1/2 cup of hot water. This made a delicious

thick

> pudding when left in the fridge. When put in the freezer it

because a very

> nice soft serve ice cream. We have used the coconut milk powder to

make

> frosting, put it in smoothies, etc. It is wonderful for curries.

I use the

> powder more with little water than actually for making milk.

>

> When you make regular milk you use approximately 1/3 cup of the

powder for 1

> 1/4 cup hot water. You end up with approximately 1 1/2 cups of

milk or 12

> oz. I believe there is approximately 4 cups of powder in a pound.

That

> would mean 12 " batches " of approximately 12oz each or 144 oz. if I

am right

> on my " guessing " . So approximately what you would get in ten 14 oz

cans

> from the store.

>

> We do have it in 33 pound bags (in bulk) for wholesale accounts.

If you

> really wanted that size you are welcome to contact us.

>

> Annette

Hi Annette,

The soft-serve ice cream sounds yummy. I was just at your

website & saw that the powder contains maltodexrin. I did a google

& discovered

" Diabetics should follow the advice of their physicians. MALTRIN®

maltodextrin's glycemic index should be considered metabolically

equivalent to glucose (dextrose). "

http://www.grainprocessing.com/food/malinfo.html

Just how much maltodexrin would there be in a pint of the

soft-serve ice cream made from your powdered coconut milk?

Alobar

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Here is my opinion about milk powders and oxidation of fats and proteins:

A fat or protein will oxidize if there are double bonds or unstable bonds

that easily break and it is submitted to high enough temperatures or severe

enough conditions to create a break in the bond.

Coconut oil is 92 percent saturated fats which can not oxidize even under

high heat. It is 6% oleic acid, which is the main fat in olive oil and it

is an omega 9, mono-unsaturated. This fat is relatively stable and does not

easily oxidize. That leaves 2% which is omega 6 and contains 2 double

bonds. Without protection, Omega 6 fatty acids can be oxidized. This is the

main fat in most seed oils like soy and canola, but it also makes up more

than 1/3 of the fatty acids in Olive oil. In a coconut milk that contains

minerals and vitamins there are naturally occurring antioxidants that can

protect a certain amount of the molecules from oxidation. I do believe this

2% of omega 6 fatty acids have some protection. As far as protein, there is

much less protein in coconut milk than you would find in cow's milk or

goat's milk and much less than you find in whey protein or eggs. Under high

heat with the spraying the small amount of protein in coconut milk and the

small amount of fat could theoretically be oxidized, but what is available

for oxidation is very minimal compared to milk, whey and eggs and there are

naturally occurring protecting vitamins and minerals in the coconut milk to

prevent oxidation.

Whey powders are over 80 percent protein, 7 percent fats (which are usually

not very high in saturated, stable fats) egg powders are even higher in

protein. While Coconut Milk powder is mostly saturated (stable) fats with

very little protein. Milk and egg powders are at the other end of the

spectrum. This makes the coconut milk much less likely to oxidize that the

other powders. You just can not oxidize molecules that are stable and do

not easily oxidize.

Companies who make whey protein and milk powders use a variety of equipment.

The way the coconut milk powder is made is with equipment from China. At

least that is where everybody seems to have purchased their equipment. China

seems to have a corner on the market of making this type of equipment for

the coconut oil industry. Though the principles are similar to the cow's

milk and whey powder industry, the machinery is not identical (at least as

far as I have been able to discern) Coconut Milk powder is just made one

way. The sprayers are at the top of a chamber and they spray the milk. There

is a slight vacuum in the chamber and some dry heat. The amount of heat you

use depends on how long the chamber and how much vacuum. The shorter the

chamber the more heat and/or vacuum you need. To make a low temperature

whey you want a long chamber and a higher vacuum.

Here is how whey protein and milk powders are made:

http://www.doitwithdairy.com/ingredients/nonfat/innonfatdef.htm says this

about drying " non-fat " powdered milk:

" High-heat nonfat dry milk receives a typical cumulative heat treatment of

190°F (88°C) for 30 minutes and has an undenatured whey protein nitrogen

content of 1.5 mg/g. High-heat nonfat dry milk is used in baked goods, meat

products and dry mixes. "

" Medium-heat nonfat dry milk typically receives a cumulative heat treatment

of 160°-175°F (70°-78°C) for 20 minutes and has an undenatured whey protein

nitrogen content of 1.51-5.99 mg/g. Medium-heat nonfat dry milk is typically

used in dry mixes, ice creams and confections. "

" Low-heat nonfat dry milk typically receives a cumulative heat treatment of

not more than 160°F (70°C) for 2 minutes and has an undenatured whey protein

nitrogen content of 6.0 mg/g. Low-heat nonfat dry milk is typically used in

cottage cheese, cultured skim milk and chocolate dairy drinks, to fortify

fluid milk and to manufacture instant nonfat dry milk. "

They do not tell us how they make their whey protein or their whey protein

isolates. It is interesting to look at their info and realize the

undenatured protein goes from 1.5 mg/g to 6.0 mg/g when they go from the

high heat for 30 minutes to the lower heat for 2 minutes. Their processes

sound much more complicated and the product seems to be much more processed.

For one thing they have taken out all the fat before they even start! The

coconut milk process seems much more straight forward.

I have been working with a lab in the Philippines to see about testing for

oxidation to find out if any occurs at all. All the lab people believed

there would not be any oxidation. But I want the proof. We do not have

that yet.

In the meantime, I have felt good about using the coconut milk powder in my

own home because it is mostly fats and those fats are saturated and can not

be oxidized. It is not chemically similar to eggs, milk or whey. In my own

mind it we say coconut oil is the only safe oil to cook with and people

sauté, fry and bake with coconut oil and feel it is safe, then the coconut

milk pwd would not contain oxidized fats. Frying, baking, and sautéing are

done at much higher temperatures. In addition, if people purchase coconut

milk in cans at the store, they need to realize these cans have hot coconut

milk poured into them, the lids are soldered, and then they are place in an

oven at 20 pounds of pressure and 212 degrees F for 1 hour. If that

pressure, temperature and time is not oxidizing the small percentage of

proteins in the milk, then a quick spray dry of the milk into a vacuum

chamber at much lower temperatures is not going to oxidize them either.

I believe there are legitimate concerns about cow and goat milk powders,

whey protein powders and milk powders. I do think coconut milk presents a

who different ball game. Just as soybean oil and canola oil are very

different from coconut oil, cow's milk, whey and egg powders are different

from coconut milk. In both cases the coconut product is more stable and

resists oxidation.

Annette

SPAM: SPAM: Re: WFN Coconut Powder

WFN Coconut Powder

> Darrell,

>

> I just had this question on the phone and I honestly do not know

what to

> tell you. The coconut milk powder is unique in that you can make

as thick

> (rich) of a milk (or cream) or as thin of a milk as you want.

Usually if

> you are making a pudding or dessert you want it thicker. Someone

took 1/2

> cup of hot water and 1/2 cup of coconut milk powder and mixed it

with a

> fork. They they added another 1/2 of the powder and when that was

mixed in

> the added another 1/2 cup. Eventually he had about 3 cups of

coconut milk

> powder added to the 1/2 cup of hot water. This made a delicious

thick

> pudding when left in the fridge. When put in the freezer it

because a very

> nice soft serve ice cream. We have used the coconut milk powder to

make

> frosting, put it in smoothies, etc. It is wonderful for curries.

I use the

> powder more with little water than actually for making milk.

>

> When you make regular milk you use approximately 1/3 cup of the

powder for 1

> 1/4 cup hot water. You end up with approximately 1 1/2 cups of

milk or 12

> oz. I believe there is approximately 4 cups of powder in a pound.

That

> would mean 12 " batches " of approximately 12oz each or 144 oz. if I

am right

> on my " guessing " . So approximately what you would get in ten 14 oz

cans

> from the store.

>

> We do have it in 33 pound bags (in bulk) for wholesale accounts.

If you

> really wanted that size you are welcome to contact us.

>

> Annette

Hi Annette,

The soft-serve ice cream sounds yummy. I was just at your

website & saw that the powder contains maltodexrin. I did a google

& discovered

" Diabetics should follow the advice of their physicians. MALTRIN®

maltodextrin's glycemic index should be considered metabolically

equivalent to glucose (dextrose). "

http://www.grainprocessing.com/food/malinfo.html

Just how much maltodexrin would there be in a pint of the

soft-serve ice cream made from your powdered coconut milk?

Alobar

[Guest guest]

Thanks Annette for taking the time to explain that in such detail. I can't wait

to try the coconut milk powder.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

> Whey powders are over 80 percent protein, 7 percent fats (which are

> usually not very high in saturated, stable fats)

> egg powders are even

> higher in protein.

A little clarification on the whey protein....

Whey powders can be 90% protein and even lower in fat and lactose.

Egg powder with an equivalent amount of protein can have

significantly less, about 40% lower, biological value than good whey

protein. BV is 100 for egg protein, 104 for the lowest grade boiled

whey protein waste from cheese making about 160 for high grade cold-

processed whey isolate. Lean beef and soy protein are around 75.

Higher is better.

Duncan Crow