Re: Phlegm in lots of organs and tissue

[Guest guest]

In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by

the spleen and from there it goes all over. It's important to treat

the spleen but in order to treat the spleen, you have to keep in mind

that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken. Too much

using of muscles can also make spleen deficient. When spleen is weak,

it cannot distribute the nutrients throughout the body. The best

place to start is to eliminate dairy and those things that cause

phlegm, like soy and red meat. Just treating the spleen on the Qx is

not gonna do the trick alone.

Phlegm can be dangerous. That's what causes a stroke--frozen phlegm.

There is an herbal product called Er Chen Wan that is great for

thinning out phlegm, but rememeber, it's not a cure. Many herbal

companies sell it. Look on the Web. is Rotella

>

>

> Have anyone seen phlegm come up in thyroid, hypoth, blood, bone,

spleen,

> lymph and other organs, does someone know why someone would have so

much

> phlegm showing up? Does anyone have a recommendation on how to

cure this

> with supplements or any other therapies?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

> In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by

> the spleen and from there it goes all over.

Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous

membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom.

Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at

all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a

hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.

And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the

digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to

sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm

itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that

causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced,

phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker

for irritation.

> It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the

> spleen, you have to keep in mind

> that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.

I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more

than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs

most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any

physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic

disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.

Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but

golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this

case.

Duncan Crow

[Guest guest]

I must take issue with your understanding of the Chinese medicine concept of Spleen and Phlegm. The Spleen, in Chinese medicine, is a poor translation for what the Europeans call SPleen-Pancreas. However, this is an attempt to categorize an Oriental concept into a Western paradigm. The Spleen, in Chinese thought, really has more to do with the digestive system than anything else. But it is not limited to that. In TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) all the "organs" are really `spheres of influence' with a shared nature or charateristics. Thus, the Spleen is responsible for the transformation and transportation of all substances within the body. It is the interference with this function that creates `accumulations' with a `phlegmy' nature. Phlegm is used to describe an abnormal accumulation of pathogenic fluids which have condensed. This condensation is often associated with Heat (inflammation) or from some other source of stagnation of which there are many. When we use these Chinese concepts we must make sure we don't view them with strictly a Western interpretation. We must take them on their own merit and within their own system of understanding. Surely they can understood in some Western sense, but not entirely.

Also, a formula such as Er Chen Wan,mentioned in another response, may be too drying for a Phlegm accumulation caused by Heat or Dryness. Certainly a whloebody oriented formula should be helpful. There is no other herbal system as advanced as that which is used within TCM. So I would recommend finding a qualified TCM practitioner to find a balanced herbal formula for such a condition as this.

Dr.

[Guest guest]

Just to clarify. The word " phlegm " as it is used in chinese

medicine is not the same thing as " mucous " as we define phlegm to

be. Same word but totally different meaning.

Tammy

>

> > In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is

made by

> > the spleen and from there it goes all over.

>

> Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous

> membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom.

> Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at

> all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a

> hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.

>

> And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the

> digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to

> sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm

> itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that

> causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced,

> phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker

> for irritation.

>

> > It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the

> > spleen, you have to keep in mind

> > that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.

>

> I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more

> than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs

> most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any

> physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic

> disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.

>

> Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but

> golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this

> case.

>

> Duncan Crow

>

[Guest guest]

What we have here in this argument is a classical form of misunderstanding that permeates our western/intelectual thinking capacity.

We all have limitations therefore before trying to remove the straw from others eyes we should first try to remove the log that is obstructing our field of vision.

In my own personal experience I tend to refrain from judgment (even though it is not easy for me), since in most cases depending on the aproach used to investigate we can explain outcomes and solutions in diferent ways, to difer does not mean to be wrong, especially when one is dealing with healing and medicine, this field of work is a very paradoxical environment and therefore when we sometimes explain things in diferent ways and seeming oposite we must take into account the perceiving counciouness factor, (our own).

Be very careful about criticism.

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>Reply-qxci-english To: qxci-english Subject: Re: Re: Phlegm in lots of organs and tissueDate: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:00:19 -0800> In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by> the spleen and from there it goes all over. Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom. Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced, phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker for irritation.> It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the> spleen, you have to keep in mind> that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this case.Duncan Crow............................................

[Guest guest]

Since

the spleen is an organ of the immune system (see notes below on the

spleen) and worry and overthinking affect both the endocrine system

(hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenals) and the nervous system (the

sympathetic nervous system) - then the immune system will also be

affected (the three systems are interconnected and talk to one another)

and therefore possibly the spleen. Just a deduction and a thought.

Azizah

Spleen

The

spleen is located in the upper left quadrant of the abdomen. The spleen

is an immunologic filter of the blood. It is made up of B cells, T

cells,

macrophages, dendritic cells, natural killer cells and red blood cells.

In

addition to capturing foreign materials (antigens) from the blood that

passes

through the spleen, migratory macrophages and dendritic cells bring

antigens to

the spleen via the bloodstream. An immune response is initiated when

the

macrophage or dendritic cells present the antigen to the appropriate B

or T

cells. This organ can be thought of as an immunological conference

center. In

the spleen, B cells become activated and produce large amounts of

antibody.

Also, old red blood cells are destroyed in the spleen. It has two main functions

acting as part of

the immune system and as a filter.

a) Structure

The

spleen has a thin connective tissue capsule from which short septa

extend

inwards. These septa are, in turn, connected to a complex reticulin

framework. There

are two distinct components of the spleen, the red pulp and the white

pulp. The

red pulp consists of large numbers of sinuses and sinusoids filled with

blood

and is responsible for the filtration function of the spleen. The white

pulp

consists of aggregates of lymphoid tissue and is responsible for the

immunological function of the spleen:

Red pulp

There is a

complex

system of blood vessels within the red pulp arranged to facilitate

removal of

old or damaged red blood cells from the circulation. A small proportion

of the

splenic blood flow passes through more rapidly without undergoing this

process

of filtration.

c) White

pulp

The

white pulp contains T cells, B cells and accessory cells. There are

many

similarities with lymph node structure. The purpose of the white pulp

is to

mount an immunological response to antigens within the blood. The white

pulp is

present in the form of a periarteriolar lymphoid sheath. This sheath

contains B

cell follicles and T cells. At the edge of the T zone is a region known

as the

marginal zone where larger lymphocytes and antigen presenting dendritic

cells

are located.

Duncan Crow wrote:

> In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made

by

> the spleen and from there it goes all over.

Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous

membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom.

Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at

all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a

hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.

And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the

digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to

sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm

itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that

causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced,

phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker

for irritation.

> It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the

> spleen, you have to keep in mind

> that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.

I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more

than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs

most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any

physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic

disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.

Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but

golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this

case.

Duncan Crow

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[Guest guest]

I beg to disagree. Dairy causes mucous which causes phlegm. is

Rotella, M.Ac.

> >

> > > In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is

> made by

> > > the spleen and from there it goes all over.

> >

> > Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous

> > membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom.

> > Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at

> > all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a

> > hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.

> >

> > And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the

> > digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to

> > sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm

> > itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that

> > causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced,

> > phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker

> > for irritation.

> >

> > > It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the

> > > spleen, you have to keep in mind

> > > that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.

> >

> > I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more

> > than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs

> > most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any

> > physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic

> > disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.

> >

> > Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but

> > golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this

> > case.

> >

> > Duncan Crow

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Phelgm can actually go to the brain and cause a stroke! Mucous and

the mucosa of the lining of the digestive tract are two different things.

is Rotella, M.Ac.

[Guest guest]

Rotella,

Again.......in chinese medicine phlegm does not have the same

meaning as we know it. Yes......mucous causes phlegm. But like I

said the chinese describe phlegm as a totally different thing. Look

up Chinese medicine and Phlegm.

I " ve been to several CHinese doctors and just as an example. One

might say that I have phlegm in my head. He is not referring to the

mucous type of phlegm. Phlegm has a totally different meaning in

chinese medicine.

Tammy

> > >

> > > > In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is

> > made by

> > > > the spleen and from there it goes all over.

> > >

> > > Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous

> > > membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom.

> > > Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at

> > > all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a

> > > hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.

> > >

> > > And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to

the

> > > digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to

> > > sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm

> > > itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that

> > > causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are

reduced,

> > > phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a

marker

> > > for irritation.

> > >

> > > > It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the

> > > > spleen, you have to keep in mind

> > > > that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.

> > >

> > > I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much

more

> > > than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the

organs

> > > most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any

> > > physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic

> > > disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.

> > >

> > > Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent;

but

> > > golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in

this

> > > case.

> > >

> > > Duncan Crow

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So what is the meaning of phlegm in chinese medicine then?Tammy <tamchapa@...> wrote: Just to clarify. The word "phlegm" as it is used in chinese medicine is not the same thing as "mucous" as we define phlegm to be. Same word but totally different meaning.Tammy>> > In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by> > the spleen and from there it goes all over. > > Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous > membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom. > Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at > all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a > hostile

environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.> > And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the > digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to > sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm > itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that > causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced, > phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker > for irritation.> > > It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the> > spleen, you have to keep in mind> > that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.> > I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more > than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs > most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any > physical stressor such as toxin load,

malnutrition, chronic > disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.> > Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but > golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this > case.> > Duncan Crow>

With love,laughter and light,

Sheena Macquet, Health and Beauty Therapist,

Quantum Scio, Radionics and Scenar Practitioner,

Louise Hay Teacher, Neuro-Linquistic Programmer,

Reflexologist,,Hypnotherapist,Remedial Masseur

Quantum Healing, Durban, SA.

031 7652734/0845565379

sheenaloving@...

[Guest guest]

So let's go a bit farther and remove the "word" phlegm and think of the type of condition, is it a thickening of mucus, sinus or intestinal is it phlegm...does it matter. The frequency is determining a thickening of some type only, these machines know more than we do as to which type. If it is imbalanced then help rebalance it, if you're not sure than use the Wholistic organ health restorer to test the frequency of it to see if it is an issue in whichever organ it comes up in. I've seen it in things like the heart...what does this mean? A thickening frequency which is imbalanced PERIOD. Try the Wholistic organ health restorer and see what I mean.

Yours in health,

Dr. Kathy

Re: Re: Phlegm in lots of organs and tissue

So what is the meaning of phlegm in chinese medicine then?Tammy <tamchapa@...> wrote: Just to clarify. The word "phlegm" as it is used in chinese medicine is not the same thing as "mucous" as we define phlegm to be. Same word but totally different meaning.Tammy>> > In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by> > the spleen and from there it goes all over. > > Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous > membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom. > Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at > all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a > hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.> > And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the > digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to > sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm > itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that > causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced, > phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker > for irritation.> > > It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the> > spleen, you have to keep in mind> > that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.> > I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more > than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs > most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any > physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic > disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.> > Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but > golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this > case.> > Duncan Crow>

With love,laughter and light,

Sheena Macquet, Health and Beauty Therapist,

Quantum Scio, Radionics and Scenar Practitioner,

Louise Hay Teacher, Neuro-Linquistic Programmer,

Reflexologist,,Hypnotherapist,Remedial Masseur

Quantum Healing, Durban, SA.

031 7652734/0845565379

sheenaloving@...

[Guest guest]

thios is now getting VERYinterstijng. now we have a nother writer saying that he refrains from judgement..yet he has now judged duncan crow with a LOG obstructing his field of vision. it is a classical sleight of hand slick very subconscious criticism. this has nothing to do with western culture. in any case.. every one seems to be over thinking. thus im sure the adrenals would always be an issue.

From: " Branco" <sciosubspace@...>Reply-qxci-english To: qxci-english Subject: RE: Re: Re: Phlegm in lots of organs and tissueDate: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:09:39 +0000

What we have here in this argument is a classical form of misunderstanding that permeates our western/intelectual thinking capacity.

We all have limitations therefore before trying to remove the straw from others eyes we should first try to remove the log that is obstructing our field of vision.

In my own personal experience I tend to refrain from judgment (even though it is not easy for me), since in most cases depending on the aproach used to investigate we can explain outcomes and solutions in diferent ways, to difer does not mean to be wrong, especially when one is dealing with healing and medicine, this field of work is a very paradoxical environment and therefore when we sometimes explain things in diferent ways and seeming oposite we must take into account the perceiving counciouness factor, (our own).

Be very careful about criticism.

From: Duncan Crow <duncancrow@...>Reply-qxci-english To: qxci-english Subject: Re: Re: Phlegm in lots of organs and tissueDate: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:00:19 -0800> In Chinese medicine, phlegm is an abnormal condition. It is made by> the spleen and from there it goes all over. Since the spleen contains no phlegm-producing cells (no mucous membranes), I have to doubt the traditional Chinese wisdom. Phlegm (mucous) is not part of the general tissue structure at all but made by of the linings etc that are most exposed to a hostile environment. That's why we have mucous membranes.And phlegm doesn't go all over; it's confined pretty much to the digestive tract and lungs. If one has overproduction, look to sources of irritation, usually toxin load. It's not the phlegm itself that is abnormal, it's the degree of toxin load that causes its overproduction. When toxins and irritants are reduced, phlegm production drops. That makes it incidental, only a marker for irritation.> It's important to treat the spleen but in order to treat the> spleen, you have to keep in mind> that too much worry and overthinking cause it to weaken.I think worry and ovehinking will involve the adrenals much more than the spleen. The adrenals have been established as the organs most affecetd by stress, including emotional but also any physical stressor such as toxin load, malnutrition, chronic disease, low antioxidant pool, electromagnetic interference.Not to marginalize Chinese medicine, which is not my intent; but golly some of it is way out unsubstantiated guesswork as in this case.Duncan Crow............................................