Re: Computer reacting with something else?

[Guest guest]

> I read that aluminium foil

> blocks RF and to test it, I wrapped it round a radio when it was

> switched on and strangely, when I wrapped it around the aerial it did

> not affect the reception at all, ... But I don't understand why

> wrapping it round the aerial had no affect.

Adding metal to the antenna simply makes the antenna bigger.

Emil

[Guest guest]

>

> > I read that aluminium foil

> > blocks RF and to test it, I wrapped it round a radio when it was

> > switched on and strangely, when I wrapped it around the aerial it

did

> > not affect the reception at all, ... But I don't understand why

> > wrapping it round the aerial had no affect.

>

> Adding metal to the antenna simply makes the antenna bigger.

>

> Emil

>

So if I tried it by wrappind plastic around the aerial and then

wrapping aluminium foil round that, would it work then or does there

have to be a fair gap between aerial and foil?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I couldn't tell if it was a battery driver radio or AC line radio.

If AC, the power cord acts as an aerial, and there is nothing

you can do about it. The radio signal jumps onto the power

cord and into the radio. If it is battery, wrap the whole

thing in alfoil TIGHTLY and it will not receive a signal.

I did this with a mobile phone (shielding tape to seal

the seam), but I had not figured on Emil's 1/6 wavelength

idea which might stymie the experiment.

Any device hooked up to another device will leak and

receive radiation via the mains or signal cable (such

as a mouse cable). You stop this via an expensive

filter. Mu metal is good to stop low frequency stuff, and

is the main port of call.

Shielding is an expensive and difficult business, requiring

fiber optics and money. This is why industry never gave us

the equipment we needed- its too expensive for them. What is your

livelihood to them? I see what you were doing: testing shielding.

Good stuff.

Providers involved:

amak Sweden (try www.amak.se)

lessemf

another US emf group doing 0 milligauss monitors- smart guys. First

onto hotspots I think.

MultiQ Sweden.

www.bemi.se : Klas Tegenfeldt used to make a monitor.

I think hush PCs Britain made fairly low emissions units.

The reason that EMI shielding is such a bloody nightmare

is the reason that electrosensitives are in such bloody trouble.

A way to fix this is to mainstream the EMF medicine connection

and throw the whole box and dice at this. So much has been learned.

So much is still to be learned.

All electrosensitives are justified in loudly asking for their

condition to be investigated. The first people I approached

were an EMC company- the best place to go. They were rude, and

it appeared that they overreacted to my suggestions. A year

or so later, their managing director was convicted of

corporate fraud. Twice. Nowadays, we have a few international EMC

groups giving fair attention and professionalism to our

subject.

All the best

Rowan.

>

> >So if I tried it by wrappind plastic around the aerial and then

> > wrapping aluminium foil round that, would it work then or does

there

> > have to be a fair gap between aerial and foil?

>

>

> Yes, it would help. You should have a gap of at least near field

dimensions

> (1/6 wavelength).

>

> Emil

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I just learned something shielding a monitor.

>

> It's a new LCD monitor, rated TCO'06, but still horrible RF emissions.

>

> Covering it with some good shielding fabric from lessemf and attaching

> a very short (about 5 inch) ground wire to a screw in my outlet hardly

> helped at all at first.

> However, I tried a few variations including switching to a shielded

power

> cord,

> grounding to a hole I put in the monitor end of the power cord, and saw

> improvements.

> But the main cause of improvement seemed to be draping the fabric

> differently so

> it is not directly touching the screen (the fabric hangs down onto

the desk.

> Grounding seems not to matter (and a TCO screen does not put out

much ELF

> fields).

>

> So it seems Emil's point about having some air space is really key.

>

> It probably depends on the geometry and the details of the source--for

> instance

> I got good shielding to the sides of the monitor without any air space.

>

> Bill

So you covered the front of the LCD monitor?

How does it affect the visibility? Exactly

which fabric did you use?

Thanks,

Eli

[Guest guest]

I tried holding a MW radio and moving it round the room where my

computer is when it was all switched on, because I'm not totally sure

if the problem may be the wiring in that room or a part of the

computer itself. I tried it once before, but I didn't realise you

need to use MW to test it, so I used FM and there wasn't very much

interference. Anyway, there was hardly any interference in most of

the room, but when I moved the radion next to and just above the

flatscreen monitor, there was loads of interference and screeching

noise from the radio. I'm not sure yet if all monitors would have

this effect, but I gues they probably do. But I was surprised because

the interference was not much near the cables connected to the

monitor, or any other cables, but it seems to all be coming from the

monitor itself. I don't really understand these things so does anyone

know why the monitor is producing so much? Is it something to do with

the backlighting in it?

However, despite all the RF it's giving off, I'm not totally sure the

monitor is the problem, because it feels more like it's the case with

all the components in that is causing the problems, maybe because of

the power supply or hard drive. The reasom I think this is because I

can hear this high pitched noise while it is on. Maybe it's RF at a

different frequency which doesn't cause interference on the radio.

And I can also feel something in the room where the computer is

after it has been switched off for a while, so it's probably still

giving off something.

>

> Hi,

>

> I couldn't tell if it was a battery driver radio or AC line radio.

>

> If AC, the power cord acts as an aerial, and there is nothing

> you can do about it. The radio signal jumps onto the power

> cord and into the radio. If it is battery, wrap the whole

> thing in alfoil TIGHTLY and it will not receive a signal.

> I did this with a mobile phone (shielding tape to seal

> the seam), but I had not figured on Emil's 1/6 wavelength

> idea which might stymie the experiment.

>

> Any device hooked up to another device will leak and

> receive radiation via the mains or signal cable (such

> as a mouse cable). You stop this via an expensive

> filter. Mu metal is good to stop low frequency stuff, and

> is the main port of call.

>

> Shielding is an expensive and difficult business, requiring

> fiber optics and money. This is why industry never gave us

> the equipment we needed- its too expensive for them. What is your

> livelihood to them? I see what you were doing: testing shielding.

> Good stuff.

>

> Providers involved:

>

> amak Sweden (try www.amak.se)

> lessemf

> another US emf group doing 0 milligauss monitors- smart guys. First

> onto hotspots I think.

> MultiQ Sweden.

> www.bemi.se : Klas Tegenfeldt used to make a monitor.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I tried holding a MW radio and moving it round the room where my

> computer is when it was all switched on, because I'm not totally sure

> if the problem may be the wiring in that room or a part of the

> computer itself. I tried it once before, but I didn't realise you

> need to use MW to test it, so I used FM and there wasn't very much

> interference. Anyway, there was hardly any interference in most of

> the room, but when I moved the radion next to and just above the

> flatscreen monitor, there was loads of interference and screeching

> noise from the radio. I'm not sure yet if all monitors would have

> this effect, but I gues they probably do. But I was surprised because

> the interference was not much near the cables connected to the

> monitor, or any other cables, but it seems to all be coming from the

> monitor itself. I don't really understand these things so does anyone

> know why the monitor is producing so much? Is it something to do with

> the backlighting in it?

>

> However, despite all the RF it's giving off, I'm not totally sure the

> monitor is the problem, because it feels more like it's the case with

> all the components in that is causing the problems, maybe because of

> the power supply or hard drive. The reasom I think this is because I

> can hear this high pitched noise while it is on. Maybe it's RF at a

> different frequency which doesn't cause interference on the radio.

>

> And I can also feel something in the room where the computer is

> after it has been switched off for a while, so it's probably still

> giving off something.

>

>

>

To the best of my knowledge it's not the

fluorescent backlight that's causing the RF

emissions that your describing. My LCD monitor has

an LED backlight yet still emits RF noise. My RF

meter does not measure anything, yet a MW radio picks

up the noise over a foot away. I'm sure that's what's

causing my tinnitus. In fact, there isn't event a power

supply in my LCD and the RF noise is there. Therefore

I conclude that the RF noise is eminating from

the LCD driver circuit board, and the correspoinding

wire matrix. My tinnitus was alleviated

after shieding that circuit board, all the

more supporting that theory. There's one more possible source

of the noise, and that is the dirty power supply. The

DC sources (12v, 5v) from the LCD power supply have

250 milivolt spikes. At something like 20k hz.

Don't get me wrong. My monitor is much, much more

tolerable without the power supply. It no longer causes

chest pains and my tinnitus is alleviated, but

it's still annoying. I recently ordered that

fabric from lessemf. We'll see if that helps. If

not I may have to build my own power supply. Or

give up and become an organic farmer. The

latter is more realistic as time goes by for this

ES sufferer. As for the computer, some are more

tolerable than others. Get it as far from you as

possible.

Eli

www.ahappyhabitat.com

[Guest guest]

> Can someone tell me what a MW radio is? Is that a satellite radio?

> (I have a portable short-wave receiver).

My interpretation is a portable short wave radio.

> I do think the backlights are noisy but I checked an LED backlight

model and

> it was just as bad, so yes other electronics are a problem too.

No doubt fluorescent backlights are noisy, but

not as noisy as the power supply and other electronics

in the monitor. If you take apart a newer model LCD monitor

you'll observe more metalic insulation around the bulbs

than the older models. The engineers know they're

burning us up.

I know a fellow that used to design Wyse terminals. Way back

then they knew that some people got headaches from them. So

they tweaked the frequencies a bit.

> Eli, can you say more about how you shielded the circuit board?

I took the monitor apart, then wrapped the entire circuit board

with mu metal (in a circular shape). I was getting a terrible low

frequency tinnitus tone that I refer to as " the death tone " . After

shielding that tone disapeared. Now I get a " cricket " or " fuzzy "

type of tinnitus.

It kills me that half or more of all Americans suffer from tinnitus,

yet they don't know the cause is EMF from their TVs, computers,

and cell phones... lunacy rules.

>

> I have wrapped a power strip with a couple power supplies using Giron

> fabric (available at LessEMF).

Certainly reduces the magnetic field. I have about 2 feet (0.6

meter?) of

> that fabric and just bent it

> into a tube shape and put the stuff inside the tube.

Mu metal will probably be more effective. It shields

very low as well as higher frequencies.

Eli

[Guest guest]

MW = Medium Wave = Medium frequency, it's used for what was the

common radio receiver called AM radio in N.America.

They use the frequency range from 540 kHz to 1,600 kHz.

Short wave is higher frequency.

>

> Can someone tell me what a MW radio is? Is that a satellite radio?

> (I have a portable short-wave receiver).

>

[Guest guest]

> In fact, there isn't event a power

> supply in my LCD and the RF noise is there. Therefore

> I conclude that the RF noise is eminating from

> the LCD driver circuit board, and the correspoinding

> wire matrix.

My new 2nd hand compaq 12 Volt DVI monitor is in pieces on the bench.

Those picture wires look hard to shield and would sureley act

as perfect antennas. (I broke the last monitor I

dismantled!) You can apply a rectangular

mesh of stainless steel across the front of the monitor and

bond it with copper tape to the internal metal housing. I have some I

could send you if you want to pay postage, it should go cheaply

in a flat envelope about $15. Professional companies use ultrafine

good visibility mesh, mine is average, you want at least 100

openings per inch. I am about to get some better stuff from

Holland. Mesh fabric is ok

for vision, but you will get more low frequency and better

visibility with mesh. I built a laptop fabric and tape enclosure with

the fabrics and didn't get enough effect, but there the laptop was

too close, and not enough mu metal (I use some metglass, of which

Giron is a variant I think).

> There's one more possible source

> of the noise, and that is the dirty power supply. The

> DC sources (12v, 5v) from the LCD power supply have

> 250 milivolt spikes. At something like 20k hz.

Tinnitus sounds like a case of microwave hearing.

I am interested in the power supply that is remoted, and

can't tell if you are saying its fixed. I take it you cut out

the board with the inverters from the monitor and put it

on an extension lead, and it gives out a 12 V and a 5 V line.

If so, maybe try a 12V car battery and a charger to charge it

every 6 hours, and a battery solution for the 5 V. I have not

worked out

how to do that, you may try 4.8 V (4 x 1.2 V AA rechargeable

batteries) or a 6 V battery and see if the 5 V line can

tolerate either without blowing up. As a test, you might obtain

a high quality benchtop power supply with 2 channels. These have

some noise but I think at a higher frequency. If you spend a bit

you can probably get a 15 year old linear high quality 2 channel

supply

on ebay from say Hewlett Packard, and place it 5 metres away. Then

if your meters tell you the power is clean ish you could check

the effect.

This experiment is very heartening, I should apologise to the

group for some bad language a while ago, I was tired and emotional.

Rowan C