Re: shielding a computer / keyboard / mouse ?

February 16, 2007

> It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

> headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength, including

> along the entire length of the cable.

Hmmm, could be an electrical problem with the outlet the computer

is plugged into? Like it is not properly grounded. You could

buy an inexpensive outlet tester to see if it is wired correctly.

Generally, people here don't seem to worry much about their

mouse and keyboard. Although, with wireless versions becoming

more popular, perhaps they will...

(me, I've got an old-fashioned wired keyboard and a wired

" ball " mouse)

Marc

February 16, 2007

Agreed. It is not neccesary to have high electric fields from the

keyboard/mouse, especially if you are using a desktop computer.

Grounding your computer case should cure the problem completely. If

your computer has a 3 prong (grounded) plug, it should be already

grounded, so there could be a problem with the grounding in the

outlet or the grounding inside the computer. If your computer only

has a 2 prong plug (rare for a desktop), I would suggest running a

grounding wire from a metal screw on the computer case to a known

electrical ground (sometimes the center screw of the outlet cover

works well). Also, with a 2 prong plug, you might try first in the

computer " the other way " an see if that helps.

I had/still have some problems because laptops are usually not

connected through 3 prong plugs, and therefore often have high stray

electric fields, whereas desktop computers usually are grounded and

don't usually have those stray electric fields.

Garth

On Feb 16, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Marc wrote:

>> It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

>> headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength, including

>> along the entire length of the cable.

>

> Hmmm, could be an electrical problem with the outlet the computer

> is plugged into? Like it is not properly grounded. You could

> buy an inexpensive outlet tester to see if it is wired correctly.

>

> Generally, people here don't seem to worry much about their

> mouse and keyboard. Although, with wireless versions becoming

> more popular, perhaps they will...

>

> (me, I've got an old-fashioned wired keyboard and a wired

> " ball " mouse)

>

> Marc

>

February 18, 2007

Do you have high fields from the peripherals when the computer is off? How

about when the computer is unplugged? Do you have a different keyboard or

mouse that you can try with this same computer?

These simple tests may shed some light on the source of the problem.

If you need to shield electric field from a mouse or keyboard, lessemf.com

has several shielding fabrics (see high performance mesh and veilshield)

that can be used to cover a keyboard and/or mouse. They also have shielded

gloves. Make sure you use a ground cord with electric field shields.

Emil

www.lessemf.com

> Hi, I joined the group 3-4 weeks ago and have been reading back

> messages. I have a lot to ask and say but am trying to minimize

> computer time, esp. since I got an " extended sensitivity " trifield meter

> that shows that I am sitting in a maxed out Electric field right now (4

> feet away from my flatscreen monitor but obviously touching the

> keyboard).

>

> My pressing question at the moment is about computer shielding. I

> don't mean the monitor, which was all that I used to worry about, I mean

> the fact that the entire computer (desktop) and even the mouse and

> keyboard are putting out huge fields. You have to get several feet away

> from them for the field to start to drop, and so you can't use the mouse

> or keyboard at all.

>

> My most obvious problem so far has been with magnetic fields, and I have

> been going to extreme lengths to get away from those. But I'm afraid my

> symptoms are getting worse, and want to minimize exposure but this

> computer thing is hard to figure out. I looked at lessemf.com but they

> do not seem to grasp this problem and only focus on shielding the

> monitor or getting away from IT.

>

> It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

> headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength, including along

> the entire length of the cable.

>

> any ideas? I didn't see any discussion in the archives, not that I could

> track down.

>

> thanks for this Group!

>

> --Soula

>

February 19, 2007

Hi Soula,

I don't have any info for you as I am a newbie to this subject too

but I have a question:

I feel very uncomfortable and invaded by energy sitting at my

computer and was surprised to find that there were no readings on my

regular Trifield meter where I am sitting.

Now I understand that the Trifield meter is not particularly

sensitive so I am wondering what kind of readings you get on

your " extended sensitivity " meter and where you got it?

I have moved the tower right away but I still can't stand being at

the computer long. What's more, the more time I spend at the

computer, the more bothered I am by the EMFs elsewhere.

Best wishes,

Aline

Hi, I joined the group 3-4 weeks ago and have been reading back

messages. I have a lot to ask and say but am trying to minimize

computer time, esp. since I got an " extended sensitivity " trifield

meter that shows that I am sitting in a maxed out Electric field

right now (4 feet away from my flatscreen monitor but obviously

touching the keyboard).

My pressing question at the moment is about computer shielding. I

don't mean the monitor, which was all that I used to worry about, I

mean the fact that the entire computer (desktop) and even the mouse

and keyboard are putting out huge fields. You have to get several feet

away from them for the field to start to drop, and so you can't use

the mouse or keyboard at all.

My most obvious problem so far has been with magnetic fields, and I

have been going to extreme lengths to get away from those. But I'm

afraid my symptoms are getting worse, and want to minimize exposure

but this computer thing is hard to figure out. I looked at lessemf.com

but they do not seem to grasp this problem and only focus on shielding

the monitor or getting away from IT.

It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength, including

along the entire length of the cable.

any ideas? I didn't see any discussion in the archives, not that I

could track down.

thanks for this Group!

--Soula

February 21, 2007

Thanks for replying, Marc and Garth -- I have been unable to read

messages until I finally came back to work today (because of the

wiring problems which make my own computer/keyboard/mouse put out a

high electric field, I have not been plugging it in). I'll try to get

time " between work " to write some.

My computer does have a 3-prong cord -- it is the house wiring (1910-

built

house) that is screwed up and so nothing is ever actually grounded,

apparently. Outlet testers show a variety of results from different

receptacles in the house, but this appears to be meaningless since

when I tried plugging a long grounded orange

extension cord in to other places in the house that were

supposedly " ok " , I still got the high electric field from the

entire computer and any peripherals plugged into it. Same thing from

anything else in the house as well as the metal plumbing

fixtures (not so wide a field though). I have 2 outlet testers, and

some outlets show contradictory results on one or the other tester.

So I am staying away from

anything plugged in, as well as some walls that put out a high

electric field for 4-5 feet, and some ceilings when the lights are

switched on (crawling on the floor is okay). I turn on the water

with a rubber spatula. What a hilarious sitcom this would make.

QUESTION: I don't suppose it would work to attach a grounding wire to

a metal screw on the backplate of the computer and take that out the

window to a grounding rod? Seems unlikely because it would still be

attached to the rest of the ungrounded system, right?

>

> >> It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

> >> headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength,

including

> >> along the entire length of the cable.

> >

> > Hmmm, could be an electrical problem with the outlet the computer

> > is plugged into? Like it is not properly grounded. You could

> > buy an inexpensive outlet tester to see if it is wired correctly.

> >

> > Generally, people here don't seem to worry much about their

> > mouse and keyboard. Although, with wireless versions becoming

> > more popular, perhaps they will...

> >

> > (me, I've got an old-fashioned wired keyboard and a wired

> > " ball " mouse)

> >

> > Marc

> >

February 21, 2007

thanks for writing, Emil! Trying to squeeze in some time here at

work, where the computer is " safe " ...

Yes, the high field from computer and anything plugged into it

(headphones, mouse, etc.) still occurs as long as the computer is

plugged in, whether it is on or off. It is the old-house wiring that

is the problem; the grounding is non-functional (in spite of the

little circuit-testers' evidence to the contrary! -- some receptacles

show OK and others do not, but plugging into none of them produces a

grounded computer).

I am getting desperate and so am very interested in the shielding

material idea. There are so many choices at the lessemf.com website.

Can someone share what material would be best (cheaper is definelty a

factor right now) -- I picture myself in a shroud sitting before my

computer, wearing special gloves and poking at the keyboard.

But it all has to be grounded as well? How would I achieve that, I

wonder? With a grounding cord going out the window to an 8-foot rod

in the ground? Fortunately I am on the first floor, but still such a

thing will not be easy.

>

> Do you have high fields from the peripherals when the computer is

off? How

> about when the computer is unplugged? Do you have a different

keyboard or

> mouse that you can try with this same computer?

>

> These simple tests may shed some light on the source of the problem.

>

> If you need to shield electric field from a mouse or keyboard,

lessemf.com

> has several shielding fabrics (see high performance mesh and

veilshield)

> that can be used to cover a keyboard and/or mouse. They also have

shielded

> gloves. Make sure you use a ground cord with electric field shields.

>

> Emil

> www.lessemf.com

>

February 21, 2007

Dear Aline, It is no wonder you feel that way, if your situation is

like mine. I got my original Trifield meter in the early '90s, then

put it away till this last year. And it does NOT really show the

electric field, in spite of looking like it should! Only the magnetic

field -- which was truly affecting me (symptoms getting worse and

worse the past few years till I finally started figuring things out),

but the meter was giving an incomplete picture.

Only because someone I found had the " extended sensitivity " version

(and brought it to my house and showed me new things to worry about)

was I clued in to this issue. And when I went to order one on the

alphalabs website, I could not find it -- you have to actually phone

them and demand it ( " my boss didn't put it on the website " I was

told). So I ordered that (an extra $10) plus the " Broadband " extra --

another $10 (but I am not sure that Broadband thing is worth a cent).

I know what you mean about 'the more time I spend at the computer the

more bothered I am elsewhere'. And I think back at the years of

sitting holding my mouse and getting that feeling of " being

connected " -- it gives me chills.

good luck! keep writing,

--Soula

>

> Hi Soula,

>

> I don't have any info for you as I am a newbie to this subject too

> but I have a question:

>

> I feel very uncomfortable and invaded by energy sitting at my

> computer and was surprised to find that there were no readings on

my

> regular Trifield meter where I am sitting.

>

> Now I understand that the Trifield meter is not particularly

> sensitive so I am wondering what kind of readings you get on

> your " extended sensitivity " meter and where you got it?

>

> I have moved the tower right away but I still can't stand being at

> the computer long. What's more, the more time I spend at the

> computer, the more bothered I am by the EMFs elsewhere.

>

> Best wishes,

> Aline

>

February 21, 2007

I would think it would work fine to attach a grounding wire to a

grounding rod in the way you describe. I would unplug the

computer while installing the grounding wire to prevent any electric

shock hazard in case there is a fault in the computer power supply.

Finally, I grew up in a very old house with knob and tube wiring -

many of these old houses have quite high magnetic and electric fields

because the old wiring did not run in matched pairs, and therefore

did not cancel magnetic/electric fields. I'm not sure what the

cure is unless you want to rewire with modern wiring. Grounding the

computer won't cure the fields throughout the house due to unmatched

wiring.

Garth

On Feb 21, 2007, at 2:23 PM, culverpratt wrote:

> Thanks for replying, Marc and Garth -- I have been unable to read

> messages until I finally came back to work today (because of the

> wiring problems which make my own computer/keyboard/mouse put out a

> high electric field, I have not been plugging it in). I'll try to get

> time " between work " to write some.

>

> My computer does have a 3-prong cord -- it is the house wiring (1910-

> built

> house) that is screwed up and so nothing is ever actually grounded,

> apparently. Outlet testers show a variety of results from different

> receptacles in the house, but this appears to be meaningless since

> when I tried plugging a long grounded orange

> extension cord in to other places in the house that were

> supposedly " ok " , I still got the high electric field from the

> entire computer and any peripherals plugged into it. Same thing from

> anything else in the house as well as the metal plumbing

> fixtures (not so wide a field though). I have 2 outlet testers, and

> some outlets show contradictory results on one or the other tester.

> So I am staying away from

> anything plugged in, as well as some walls that put out a high

> electric field for 4-5 feet, and some ceilings when the lights are

> switched on (crawling on the floor is okay). I turn on the water

> with a rubber spatula. What a hilarious sitcom this would make.

>

> QUESTION: I don't suppose it would work to attach a grounding wire to

> a metal screw on the backplate of the computer and take that out the

> window to a grounding rod? Seems unlikely because it would still be

> attached to the rest of the ungrounded system, right?

>

>>

>>>> It appears that anything plugged into the computer, including

>>>> headphones, mic, etc. all carry the field full-strength,

> including

>>>> along the entire length of the cable.

>>>

>>> Hmmm, could be an electrical problem with the outlet the computer

>>> is plugged into? Like it is not properly grounded. You could

>>> buy an inexpensive outlet tester to see if it is wired correctly.

>>>

>>> Generally, people here don't seem to worry much about their

>>> mouse and keyboard. Although, with wireless versions becoming

>>> more popular, perhaps they will...

>>>

>>> (me, I've got an old-fashioned wired keyboard and a wired

>>> " ball " mouse)

>>>

>>> Marc

>>>

February 23, 2007

Garth, thank you very much. I guess it might be worth a try,

difficult as it will be to snake a grounding wire to a distant window

and put a hole in the screen or something (ah, another issue: metal

screen in an aluminum window frame!).

I talked to an 'emf expert' ( in Mill Valley, CA, speaks

re EMFs at conferences, + is a licensed electrical contractor) and it

would take $thousands to fix the wiring ($10-20k to rewire the house,

he said, if he did it). So that is not happening any time soon, if

ever.

Thanks very much for replying.

--Soula

>

> > Thanks for replying, Marc and Garth -- I have been unable to read

> > messages until I finally came back to work today (because of the

> > wiring problems which make my own computer/keyboard/mouse put out

a

> > high electric field, I have not been plugging it in). I'll try to

get

> > time " between work " to write some.

> >

> > My computer does have a 3-prong cord -- it is the house wiring

(1910-

> > built

> > house) that is screwed up and so nothing is ever actually

grounded,

> > apparently. Outlet testers show a variety of results from

different

> > receptacles in the house, but this appears to be meaningless since

> > when I tried plugging a long grounded orange

> > extension cord in to other places in the house that were

> > supposedly " ok " , I still got the high electric field from the

> > entire computer and any peripherals plugged into it. Same thing

from

> > anything else in the house as well as the metal plumbing

> > fixtures (not so wide a field though). I have 2 outlet testers,

and

> > some outlets show contradictory results on one or the other

tester.

> > So I am staying away from

> > anything plugged in, as well as some walls that put out a high

> > electric field for 4-5 feet, and some ceilings when the lights are

> > switched on (crawling on the floor is okay). I turn on the water

> > with a rubber spatula. What a hilarious sitcom this would make.

> >

> > QUESTION: I don't suppose it would work to attach a grounding

wire to

> > a metal screw on the backplate of the computer and take that out

the

> > window to a grounding rod? Seems unlikely because it would still

be

> > attached to the rest of the ungrounded system, right?

> >

February 24, 2007

I have both of my computers grounded. On one I took a sheet of metal that I got

from the hardware store and made a case out of it. I attached it to the wall

about three feet above the ground to prevent ground currents I grounded the

metal case to a grounding rod. The case is about ten feet from me and I use

estensions for the cables to the monitor. This one works best. The other

computer sits on top of some metallic cloth and it is grounded to an outlet with

a cord that only plugs into the outlets ground. I am going to redo this one and

ground it to a grounding rod instead. I can feel a difference in the energy

that comes from the computer that is grounded to an outlet and the one that is

grounded to the grounding rod. I will no longer ground anything to ground

outlets and everything will be grounded to grounding rods. This is the

conclusion I came to when comparing the two recently when I grounded the bed I

was sleeping in. Grounding rods give a very comforting kind of energy where as

the outlets make me feel like I'm being electrocuted.

Re: shielding a computer / keyboard / mouse ?

Garth, thank you very much. I guess it might be worth a try,

difficult as it will be to snake a grounding wire to a distant window

and put a hole in the screen or something (ah, another issue: metal

screen in an aluminum window frame!).

I talked to an 'emf expert' ( in Mill Valley, CA, speaks

re EMFs at conferences, + is a licensed electrical contractor) and it

would take $thousands to fix the wiring ($10-20k to rewire the house,

he said, if he did it). So that is not happening any time soon, if

ever.

Thanks very much for replying.

--Soula

>

> > Thanks for replying, Marc and Garth -- I have been unable to read

> > messages until I finally came back to work today (because of the

> > wiring problems which make my own computer/keyboard/mouse put out

a

> > high electric field, I have not been plugging it in). I'll try to

get

> > time " between work " to write some.

> >

> > My computer does have a 3-prong cord -- it is the house wiring

(1910-

> > built

> > house) that is screwed up and so nothing is ever actually

grounded,

> > apparently. Outlet testers show a variety of results from

different

> > receptacles in the house, but this appears to be meaningless since

> > when I tried plugging a long grounded orange

> > extension cord in to other places in the house that were

> > supposedly " ok " , I still got the high electric field from the

> > entire computer and any peripherals plugged into it. Same thing

from

> > anything else in the house as well as the metal plumbing

> > fixtures (not so wide a field though). I have 2 outlet testers,

and

> > some outlets show contradictory results on one or the other

tester.

> > So I am staying away from

> > anything plugged in, as well as some walls that put out a high

> > electric field for 4-5 feet, and some ceilings when the lights are

> > switched on (crawling on the floor is okay). I turn on the water

> > with a rubber spatula. What a hilarious sitcom this would make.

> >

> > QUESTION: I don't suppose it would work to attach a grounding

wire to

> > a metal screw on the backplate of the computer and take that out

the

> > window to a grounding rod? Seems unlikely because it would still

be

> > attached to the rest of the ungrounded system, right?

> >

February 24, 2007

wow, that is very interesting.

That sense of being electrocuted as you describe, seems familiar.

Oh, how long are the grounding rods that you put into the earth?

What are ground currents, by the way? You must have connected to

some really strong studs or something to be able to suspend all that

metal casing and a computer 3 feet above the ground -?

Do you think you will need individual grounding rods for each

computer or would connecting both to one do as well?

--Soula

>

> I have both of my computers grounded. On one I took a sheet of

metal that I got from the hardware store and made a case out of it.

I attached it to the wall about three feet above the ground to

prevent ground currents I grounded the metal case to a grounding

rod. The case is about ten feet from me and I use estensions for

the cables to the monitor. This one works best. The other computer

sits on top of some metallic cloth and it is grounded to an outlet

with a cord that only plugs into the outlets ground. I am going to

redo this one and ground it to a grounding rod instead. I can feel

a difference in the energy that comes from the computer that is

grounded to an outlet and the one that is grounded to the grounding

rod. I will no longer ground anything to ground outlets and

everything will be grounded to grounding rods. This is the

conclusion I came to when comparing the two recently when I grounded

the bed I was sleeping in. Grounding rods give a very comforting

kind of energy where as the outlets make me feel like I'm being

electrocuted.

February 24, 2007

I use 8 foot grounding rods. Actually the computer case is on a shelf. Ground

currents are what I used to feel on my floor before i put all my electronic

equipment above the floor and in faraday cages, etc. I have many ground rods at

my home grounding many things. It is easier for me to ground things that way

but I would " guess " it is okay to use the same ground rod to ground more than

one computer.