Guest guest Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 I have a question relating to " longitudinal electromagnetic waves " . Regarding the magnetic field surrounding power lines, this field is expanding and contracting 50 times per second, since the current wave associated with this field has a frequency of 50Hz. A person near a power line is therefore exposed to a magnetic field which expands and contracts in all directions around the power line. Although strictly speaking, this is a 'field' and is seemingly connected to the power line, isn't a person effectively under the influence of something like a longitudinal magnetic wave when standing near a power line? The field, by definition, does not behave like a wave, however I fail to see how the impact of this field on a person standing near a power line is drastically different to that of a longitudinal wave, which presumably might be radiated from this field under certain conditions (in a similar manner to the way that a transverse electromagnetic wave is radiated from a transmitter). Presumably this is like being in the near field region of a form of transmitter (and I know the characteristics here are different from those in the far field region, however I don't know exactly how different or whether some completely different phenomenon is observed). Furthermore, an electric field also exists around a power line, which is associated with the voltage wave, and this field also surrounds the power line and is expanding and contracting at the same rate as the magnetic field. Could this not explain how people could be experiencing the effects that would result from being exposed to a longitudinal electromagnetic 'wave', without there actually being a wave as such, but rather a concurrent pair of alternating fields? Like most people, I find this topic very confusing and I do not profess to understand what Tesla or anyone else might have meant by longitudinal electromagnetic waves, however I think I understand what distinguishes a longitudinal wave from a transverse wave. I would appreciate it if someone with a better understanding of these things could tell me where my reasoning is flawed. On a similar topic, according to my very limited understanding of radiation transmitters, just after a quarter way through each cycle, i.e. after the magnetic field around a conductor has reached it's maximum strength and begins to decay, a portion of the energy carried by the field detaches from the wave and is radiated to the environment (this phenomenon is presumably responsible for a proportion of the significant amount of energy lost during power transmission). I am not sure about the nature of this 'detached' energy, apart from the assumption that it is radiated as some form of wave/s, which could either be transverse (and I imagine some or all of the energy is in this form), longitudinal or a combination of both. Again, if someone can clarify any of this it would be a great help. Thanks Lachlan longitudinal waves I think that there should be no strict polarization between " believers " and " scientists " within this group if we separated facts from interpretations. Particularly, I am interested in what are the facts about " longitudinal waves " ?! They should have some characteristics. I am ready to believe they exist, but previously I would need to have any idea what they are, how they occur, spread etc.. So please help me by a short description, or a www link about rational approach to such entities called longitudinal waves. One more request for clarification: would there be any measurable difference after applying RFI/EMI filters, as I don't measure any electrosmog coming out the lines (except, normally, the power frequency)!? Drasko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Dear folks, Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the adjacent building, third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There were about 26 individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz frequencies. We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one which worked best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It blocked all detectable RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2). The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The weight of the water was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think something like continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But the logistics were daunting. We finally moved. One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF shielding curtain material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT.. If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source building, and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the RF just comes in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of " solution " really needs thinking thru. Sage Sage Associates On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders sson wrote: > > > Gruendg@... wrote: >> Hallo, Wille, >> your questions ... >> >> These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light >> impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on >> this und wrote quite a few books ... >> > Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of > the > " New Age " scientist that publish plenty of books? > > I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community, > that's why i strike hard against " none science " . > >> >> While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding > of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of > water. >> > I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops > (almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz > signals > are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water? > >> >> How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure >> the >> present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and >> measure >> again and see the difference. >> > It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the > mobile when the field is strong enough! > > --- > > Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got > himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential > differences > between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between > ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in > the > environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above. > > In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both > Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist! > > It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d > o > affect human beings. > > Anders sson > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Sage wrote: > Dear folks, > > Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with > the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the > adjacent building, > third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There > were about 26 > individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz > frequencies. > > We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one > which worked > best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It > blocked all detectable > RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2). Interesting, but as you already figured out: not so convenient! > > The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The > weight of the water > was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think > something like > continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But > the logistics > were daunting. We finally moved. > > One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF > shielding curtain > material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT.. Grounding is completely irrelevant when we talks about frequencies above a few MHz! Grounding might be of interest to reduce low frequency electrical fields. > > If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source > building, > and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the > RF just comes > in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of " solution " > really needs thinking > thru. > Very true! Anders sson > Sage > Sage Associates > > > > On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders sson wrote: > > >> >>Gruendg@... wrote: >> >>>Hallo, Wille, >>>your questions ... >>> >>>These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light >>>impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on >>>this und wrote quite a few books ... >>> >> >>Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of >>the >> " New Age " scientist that publish plenty of books? >> >>I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community, >>that's why i strike hard against " none science " . >> >> >>>While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding >> >>of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of >>water. >> >>I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops >>(almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz >>signals >>are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water? >> >> >>>How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure >>>the >>>present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and >>>measure >>>again and see the difference. >>> >> >>It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the >>mobile when the field is strong enough! >> >>--- >> >>Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got >>himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential >>differences >>between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between >>ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in >>the >>environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above. >> >>In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both >>Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist! >> >>It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d >>o >> affect human beings. >> >>Anders sson >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 > The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. > We finally moved. When I had a problem with my workplace, I solved it with stuff from Quantum Products (http://www.quantumproducts.com). For example, the Quantum Pro is supposed to clean up everything for about a 50 foot radius. This stuff was really helpful for my recovery, although I'm only just using their powerstrip anymore. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Marc, Short of ordering some of their products, and testing them .... they give no idea of how they work... I would be disinclined to presume they work equally well for the problem we had at our (former) office. You can see from our website (www.sageassociates.net) that we are involved in ELF/RF issues professionally.... and really want to provide quality information to people who may use this forum. These products are designed for normal " dirty power " problems typical of offices with lots of " devices " that break up the normal 60 Hz sine wave (introducing RF bursts, harmonic frequencies and other " dirty power " problems. Their product may or may not work (they did for you).... but this is entirely different than chronic exposure to cell and PCS frequencies that are intentionally transmitted from a cell site opposite you. We all ought to be very careful and specific about the products/problems/ experiences/solutions we discuss here.... since there is much good to discuss... but we risk sending people off in the wrong direction without good background first. Sage On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 09:46 AM, Marc wrote: >> The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. >> We finally moved. > > When I had a problem with my workplace, I solved it with > stuff from Quantum Products (http://www.quantumproducts.com). > For example, the Quantum Pro is supposed to clean up everything > for about a 50 foot radius. This stuff was really helpful > for my recovery, although I'm only just using their powerstrip > anymore. > > Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 > Short of ordering some of their products, and testing them .... > they give no idea of how they work... They are a passive shunt filter. Essentially it should be an equivalent to plugging in dozens of RFI/EMI filters into various outlets, but instead you only need to plug in one. It generates a coherent field of a certain radius, and any other fields it comes into contact with becomes coherent as well (according to the laws of quantum mechanics, hence the name of the product). I suspect they don't describe how it works because most people wouldn't understand it... :-) Anecdotally, they have told me a story where a bunch of cows refused to go into a metal barn after a cell tower was installed nearby. After plugging in a single Quantum Pro into the barn, the cows not only went into the barn, but didn't want to leave. But yes, you would have to order one and see if they worked for your particular situation. At least this is a company which has a money back guarantee. Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Marc wrote: >>Short of ordering some of their products, and testing them .... >>they give no idea of how they work... > > > They are a passive shunt filter. Essentially it should be an > equivalent to plugging in dozens of RFI/EMI filters into various > outlets, but instead you only need to plug in one. It generates a > coherent field of a certain radius, and any other fields it comes > into contact with becomes coherent as well (according to the laws of > quantum mechanics, hence the name of the product). I suspect they > don't describe how it works because most people wouldn't understand > it... :-) > > Anecdotally, they have told me a story where a bunch of cows refused > to go into a metal barn after a cell tower was installed nearby. > After plugging in a single Quantum Pro into the barn, the cows not > only went into the barn, but didn't want to leave. > > But yes, you would have to order one and see if they worked for your > particular situation. At least this is a company which has a money > back guarantee. > Have you Marc, or anybody else that you know used that " money back guarantee " ? Did you get your money back? I'm just curious! Anders sson > Marc > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Hi all, I had a cell phone which did not work in my flat. I was being able to use it only at the balcony,outside. Than I had to change it.I thought that problem was my double layer window glasses. Would you think double layer glass window will help to stop some of the cell site radiation from outside? Thanks Nil Re: longitudinal waves Dear folks, Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the adjacent building, third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There were about 26 individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz frequencies. We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one which worked best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It blocked all detectable RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2). The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The weight of the water was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think something like continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But the logistics were daunting. We finally moved. One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF shielding curtain material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT.. If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source building, and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the RF just comes in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of " solution " really needs thinking thru. Sage Sage Associates On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders sson wrote: > > > Gruendg@... wrote: >> Hallo, Wille, >> your questions ... >> >> These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light >> impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on >> this und wrote quite a few books ... >> > Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of > the > " New Age " scientist that publish plenty of books? > > I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community, > that's why i strike hard against " none science " . > >> >> While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding > of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of > water. >> > I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops > (almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz > signals > are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water? > >> >> How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure >> the >> present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and >> measure >> again and see the difference. >> > It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the > mobile when the field is strong enough! > > --- > > Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got > himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential > differences > between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between > ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in > the > environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above. > > In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both > Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist! > > It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d > o > affect human beings. > > Anders sson > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 I thought that problem was my double layer window glasses. Would you think double layer glass window will help to stop some of the cell site radiation from outside? If one of the layers of glass is the low-emissivity type, it most likely has a thin metallic film on one of the glass panes in the gap between the two layers. This metallic film, although very thin, could be the cause of such an effect, however there are obviously a number of other possibilities unrelated to the glass that could also be acting in combination or independently. I'm sorry but I can't remember what type of metal is used, however there is a possibility that it acts as a partial shield or the from of your building including the metallic coating and (probably) aluminium window frames might be conducting the energy from the base station rather than allowing it to enter your house (to me this seems like a good thing rather than a bad thing - an external aerial located outside and attached to the phone, as is used in cars, might be a solution). Good luck, Lachlan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hello Nil, window panes which have a sun-shielding are very well known to shield high frequency fields, like those of mobile phones. This sun shielding abtained because very small metal particles are manufactured on the surface of the pane. The same effect you can obtain with normal window panes, when you put these transparent hf shielding films on the glass. These films consist of two layers. The upper must be taken off, the window pane should be wetted with clear water, and the now open side of the film placed against the glass. The water must be pushed away, and the oversized sides of the film be cut with a sharp knife. Although these films are transparent, they tend to make it a little darker in the room. Biologa has a range of those films, named RDF. See www.enviratest.com , Biologa, Hochfrequenz HF Sorry, most Germans speak only German, and are a bit lazy in making their information sheet also in english. They fear, that they have to make them in many languages, but aside german, I think english is neccessary for a lot of other countries. I do hope, that Biologa will do their best in doing that soon. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/ http://www.hese-project.org checked by Norton Antivirus Re: longitudinal waves > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Nil. Congratulations !! You have a flat that is not radiated, at least not by mobile-phone-radiation. Be careful with that information and don´t tell the operators. W.B. Sweden Nymphaea/formerly nil wrote: >Hi all, > >I had a cell phone which did not work in my flat. I was being able to use it only at the balcony,outside. Than I had to change it.I thought that problem was my double layer window glasses. Would you think double layer glass window will help to stop some of the cell site radiation from outside? >Thanks >Nil > Re: longitudinal waves > > > Dear folks, > > Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with > the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the > adjacent building, > third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There > were about 26 > individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz > frequencies. > > We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one > which worked > best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It > blocked all detectable > RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2). > > The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The > weight of the water > was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think > something like > continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But > the logistics > were daunting. We finally moved. > > One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF > shielding curtain > material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT.. > > If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source > building, > and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the > RF just comes > in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of " solution " > really needs thinking > thru. > > Sage > Sage Associates > > > > On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders sson wrote: > > > > > > > Gruendg@... wrote: > >> Hallo, Wille, > >> your questions ... > >> > >> These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light > >> impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on > >> this und wrote quite a few books ... > >> > > Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of > > the > > " New Age " scientist that publish plenty of books? > > > > I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community, > > that's why i strike hard against " none science " . > > > >> > >> While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding > > of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of > > water. > >> > > I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops > > (almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz > > signals > > are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water? > > > >> > >> How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure > >> the > >> present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and > >> measure > >> again and see the difference. > >> > > It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the > > mobile when the field is strong enough! > > > > --- > > > > Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got > > himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential > > differences > > between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between > > ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in > > the > > environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above. > > > > In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both > > Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist! > > > > It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d > > o > > affect human beings. > > > > Anders sson > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 . Apart from the waste of money you recommend when treating the windows. How shall Nil shield the walls? For the sake of argument lets say that he; 1./ lives in a wood house. 2./ lives in a brick house. Wille Borlin SWEDEN charles wrote: >Hello Nil, > >window panes which have a sun-shielding are very well known to shield high >frequency fields, like those of mobile phones. >This sun shielding abtained because very small metal particles are >manufactured on the surface of the pane. > >The same effect you can obtain with normal window panes, when you put these >transparent hf shielding films on the glass. >These films consist of two layers. The upper must be taken off, the window >pane should be wetted with clear water, and the now open side of the film >placed against the glass. The water must be pushed away, and the oversized >sides of the film be cut with a sharp knife. >Although these films are transparent, they tend to make it a little darker >in the room. >Biologa has a range of those films, named RDF. >See www.enviratest.com , Biologa, Hochfrequenz HF > >Sorry, most Germans speak only German, and are a bit lazy in making their >information sheet also in english. >They fear, that they have to make them in many languages, but aside german, >I think english is neccessary for a lot of other countries. >I do hope, that Biologa will do their best in doing that soon. > >Greetings, > Claessens >member Verband Baubiologie >http://members.rott.chello.nl/cclaessens/ >http://www.hese-project.org >checked by Norton Antivirus > > > > > Re: longitudinal waves >> >> >> > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Thanks:) I am happy about it.I must say that it is partially blocking the radiation as Nokia workes now. It was motorola which did not get the signals. Still,blockage is good even if it is partial. Best regards. Nil Re: longitudinal waves > > > Dear folks, > > Several years ago, our office in Santa Barbara became uninhabitable with > the development of a major regional cell site on the roof of the > adjacent building, > third story to third story at about 160' horizontal distance. There > were about 26 > individual antennas operating at both the 800-900 MHz and 1250-1300 MHz > frequencies. > > We looked at (and implemented) some RF shielding methods. The one > which worked > best in testing was a couple of centimeters thickness of water. It > blocked all detectable > RF (down to a couple of nanowatts/cm2). > > The problem was in figuring out a building-wide application. The > weight of the water > was too great. A big shower curtain impregnated with water (think > something like > continuous bubblewrap filled with water)... would have done it. But > the logistics > were daunting. We finally moved. > > One further caution - RF shielding paint (copper-based paint) and RF > shielding curtain > material DO work.... if properly grounded they work best..... BUT.. > > If you put up these materials on the walls between you and the source > building, > and then the building BEHIND you later becomes a transmitting site, the > RF just comes > in from behind and ricochets around at you. This type of " solution " > really needs thinking > thru. > > Sage > Sage Associates > > > > On Wednesday, February 25, 2004, at 03:14 AM, Anders sson wrote: > > > > > > > Gruendg@... wrote: > >> Hallo, Wille, > >> your questions ... > >> > >> These cells comminicate with each other through photons, that is light > >> impulses - the german Prof. Alfred Popp >spent decades of research on > >> this und wrote quite a few books ... > >> > > Has Prof. Popp published any peer reviewed articles, or is he one of > > the > > " New Age " scientist that publish plenty of books? > > > > I just try to establish creditability for ES-people in our community, > > that's why i strike hard against " none science " . > > > >> > >> While these waves that I call longitudinal weaves pass the shielding > > of >an faradayan cage, they are upheld by a layer of about 2 cm of > > water. > >> > > I know for sure that a few meter of saltwater (about 1% NaCl) stops > > (almost) all radio waves. It might be so that 900MHz and 1800MHz > > signals > > are heavily attenuated by just 2cm of water? > > > >> > >> How do I know, what I am measuring? Simply this way. First I measure > >> the > >> present state of the acupuncture system; then I put the mobile on and > >> measure > >> again and see the difference. > >> > > It is quite possible that your e-meter react at the fields from the > > mobile when the field is strong enough! > > > > --- > > > > Though I have doubts (see above!), I can tell you that my dentist got > > himself a sensitive mV-meter to be able to measure potential > > differences > > between tooth's. He figured out that there were differences between > > ES-people and none-ES-people, especially when adding extra fields in > > the > > environment. It is possible that same error occurs here as above. > > > > In the future (starting out within 6 months) I will try to repeat both > > Dietrich's findings and the ones from my dentist! > > > > It might be a way to achieve objective documentation that EM-fields d > > o > > affect human beings. > > > > Anders sson > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Dear Dietrich and and Lachlan, Thank you for your response to my inquiry about longitudinal waves. I am extremely ready to believe that they exist, just someone tell me what they are, what are their properties, how to imagine them, what difference their existance make in our picture and understanding of the EMF effects! All the information I have read up to now is *irrelevant* for practical purposes, including the text of Dr. that Beau posted. Please help me a bit more, cite something or send a text or something like that. Drasko longitudinal waves > Dear Drasco, > for me longitudinal waves are not a theory and not a weird theory, they are > also not fiction, they are experimental fact. Using elektroacupunkture I > clearly could see the biological negative effect that electromagnetic fields > produce. Then I tried to make this negative effect disappear. The things I found, > that were alreday on the market, dit not fit into the understanding of physics I > had at that time. But I did continue making various experiments to find out > how these things might work. Through experimentation alone I found some of the > qualities, that those biological effective waves had. One was, that these > waves penetrate any Faradayan cage, but change their quality by passing the > metallic wall. It was only then, that I was reading about Tesla, Prof. Meyl from > Germany and others, that described these waves as longitudinal waves. And the > experiences I had made, fit very well in the description of longitudinal waves > they gave. > Measuring longitudinal waves technically certainly would be a good thing, but > this mesurement cannot tell me wether these waves are biological negative or > positive. This depends on the information they transmit. And information you > can not directly measure, because it is a quality and not a quantitiy. This > explains why even extremly low intensities of EMF can cause biological effects. > This explains, why pulsed mikrowaves cause a much stronger biological effect > than continuous waves. > Hopefully these very few details can awaken you to the realitiy of the Tesla > waves and make you curious, to find out more about them. It`s worth it. > Greetings > Dietrich Gruen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Dear Drasko, I'm also still undecided regarding the actual, physical existence of longitudinal waves and magnetic vector potentials. As with any quantity which is postulated, I take the 'wait and see' approach. This applies to all of physics. If an explanation can fit enough observable facts, it is reasonable to use it as a model for the observed behavior, especially if something engineered using the model works. However, some would maintain that after something has been engineered and has an effect predicted on a model's principles, they now have explained the actual mechanisms which cause the observed facts. That notion should be dispelled by a brief glimpse into history which shows that our 'concrete' physical models are always being altered or replaced. Even an observable like a gaussmeter reading only shows that something is happening to bring it about; we speak of a 'magnetic field' (and the mathematical description of such) as explaining the behavior. Some believe the present standard physics description of the magnetic field is all there is to the phenomenon, as it suits their purposes and there is nothing in their admissible experience which needs further explanation. This is partly the kind of thinking which has led to the discounting or denial of ES. And what constitutes a valid or applicable measure? Our meter may be responding to something whose nature is only narrowly explained or completely missed by standard physics. And how do we know the scope the measurements taken by something like an electroacupuncture device really apply to? The level of concern for a measurement's validity is always relative, depending on what is motivating the measurement, and the scope can only be assessed experimentally. I'm inclined that there are many investigators, like Dr. , who have spent a great deal of effort gathering observables and finding that some extended version of electromagnetics suggests the observed phenomena. I don't have the benefit of having done these experiments and collected convincing bodies of data, or had the opportunity to critically review them; hence my undecided status about these things. However, Dr. 's and my own immediate experience with electrically driven toroids at a distance have shown me that biological organisms can feel and react to something either too fine for, or completely outside of the capability of gaussmeters to read. To my knowledge, Dr. only postulates that the reaction may be due to a physical quantity which corresponds to the mathematically modelled magnetic vector potential. Here's an explanation of the magnetic vector potential's derivation: http://tinyurl.com/6kugw I've posted the files on Dr. 's work to show there are bodies of thought extant into less-than-mainstream explanations of electromagnetic phenomena with serious, well-intentioned scholarship on them. My intention isn't to convince anyone of the existence of longitudinal waves or magnetic vector potentials with Dr. 's bibliography or the brief intro to his ideas given in his article on mobile phones. As a good deal of Dr. 's work pertains to ES, I am hopeful he or other researchers can discover a model which explains and can treat it successfully. I am sharing the information in hopes it gives hope to others and can lead other scholars who encounter the literature in possibly finding a cure. All the best, Beau > > Dear Dietrich and and Lachlan, > > Thank you for your response to my inquiry about longitudinal waves. I am > extremely ready to believe that they exist, just someone tell me what they > are, what are their properties, how to imagine them, what difference their > existance make in our picture and understanding of the EMF effects! All the > information I have read up to now is *irrelevant* for practical purposes, > including the text of Dr. that Beau posted. Please help me a bit more, > cite something or send a text or something like that. > > Drasko > > longitudinal waves > > > > Dear Drasco, > > for me longitudinal waves are not a theory and not a weird theory, they > are > > also not fiction, they are experimental fact. Using elektroacupunkture I > > clearly could see the biological negative effect that electromagnetic > fields > > produce. Then I tried to make this negative effect disappear. The things I > found, > > that were alreday on the market, dit not fit into the understanding of > physics I > > had at that time. But I did continue making various experiments to find > out > > how these things might work. Through experimentation alone I found some > of the > > qualities, that those biological effective waves had. One was, that these > > waves penetrate any Faradayan cage, but change their quality by passing > the > > metallic wall. It was only then, that I was reading about Tesla, Prof. > Meyl from > > Germany and others, that described these waves as longitudinal waves. And > the > > experiences I had made, fit very well in the description of longitudinal > waves > > they gave. > > Measuring longitudinal waves technically certainly would be a good thing, > but > > this mesurement cannot tell me wether these waves are biological negative > or > > positive. This depends on the information they transmit. And information > you > > can not directly measure, because it is a quality and not a quantitiy. > This > > explains why even extremly low intensities of EMF can cause biological > effects. > > This explains, why pulsed mikrowaves cause a much stronger biological > effect > > than continuous waves. > > Hopefully these very few details can awaken you to the realitiy of the > Tesla > > waves and make you curious, to find out more about them. It`s worth it. > > Greetings > > Dietrich Gruen > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Beau, Thank you very much for your dedicated response! I completely agree with your philosophy of science! There is just a slight accent that could be differing us: It is my constant struggle to separate fact from fiction. As we agree, any (especially newly postulated) theoretical model has a mixture of fact and presumptions. It is very difficult to separate them, once they are mixed within a theory. So first I look for the facts that are crucial and typical for a specific theory. A perfect example of such a fact is the experiment with coils that you mentioned. As I understand, there is an " emanation " (call it longitudinal waves, vector potential, or whatever) from such coils, that does have biological effect while not having classic physical parameters! Excellent! That is what I have been seeking for! Where to find more such facts (texts of Dr. or whatever)?! You did help me to start rationalizing this theory! Thank you! Let's go further! Drasko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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