Coherent Space (TM)

[Guest guest]

Dear , and

Is there anything useful at http://www.coherentspace.info? Mr Pinto appears to

have a device on offer, recently taken up in the EHS market, by Marc, for

evaluation purposes.

Allman

[Guest guest]

Duncan

Cc: , mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc, Klaus

Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, McMurtrey, Grant

Bcc: Profs Rose + Russ Stannard at OU, Dr Francis T at Cambridge,

Carole (she of the 2004 New Criteria paper in that Psycho-Social

journal), Sue J, Dr Gerard Hyland at Warwick

Dear

You wrote, " [Vinny claims] that EMF noise from computers and other sources

may cause 'quantum stress', and according to bio-communication theories I've

studied, it is exactly the opposite. "

It is over a quarter of a century since I scraped a distinction on my

quantum mechanics undergraduate course on the single electron atom or ion

(e.g. H, He+, Li++ etc), and shared the DeBroglie Prize that year with

another undergrad. I couldn't remember much about the subject even a week

after my finals, so I haven't a clue today what " quantum stress " is.

As I understand it, Vinny's not asking anyone for money at this stage. Like

yourself, he's offering a prototype device for volunteers to experiment

with, free of charge, to provide some initial anecdotal evidence that his

hypothesis is worth pursuing. He also offers (or appears to be willing to

offer) information about his technology, whatever it may be, so that other

researchers and developers can incorporate it into devices they are

building. Perhaps he wants a confidentiality agreement before disclosing

how his technology functions, because he hasn't applied for a patent yet.

Your scepticism about Vinny's rationale for thinking he's got a hypothesis

worth testing is perhaps better founded than your suspicions. However, he

is primarily addressing the perceived needs of (subjective) EHS sufferers, I

believe, not (subjective) e-harassment sufferers. Whereas you and I might

wonder if some EHS sufferers are really TIs, as Klaus in Germany eventually

came to suspect, the EHS model for explaining similar symptoms is

exceptional sensitivity in vulnerable individals to meaningless EM

background noise produced as a side-effect of benign machinery. That is the

very opposite of our model, information content delivered maliciously to NAD

targeted individuals, in order to entrain the nervous system, which set of

effects I agree could potentially be drowned out by loud enough EM noise,

the more noise the better.

Having wrong reasons for thinking a hypothesis is worth testing isn't reason

enough for rejecting the hypothesis out of hand when the work is already in

progress testing it. If nothing else that benefits us, Vinny's work could

at least provide a diagnostic tool for distingishing between EHS and

e-harassment, other than the subjective impressions of sufferers, which

could be just a matter of personal taste. (An e-harassment TI with a high

complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted

symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS

sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the mistaken

conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

Anyway, at least one EHS sufferer is trying Vinny's invention, Marc. We're

a long way from being to conduct trials of anything of Vinny's or yours with

control groups issued, " blind " to the researcher, with placebo kits, etc.

And, unless we eventually get a correlation whereby subjective EHS people

and subjective TIs report statistically significantly different rates of

effectiveness, we won't have a diagnostic test to distinguish TIs from EHS

sufferers. But I've been into the EHS community partly because we and

they do both need such a test, as badly as we both need tests to distinguish

our respective conditions (assuming that they are different) from (say)

schizophrenia.

By the way, your work with magnets provoked a response, didn't it? Right

after you went public on that, transcranial magnetic stimulation as a

treatment for schizophrenia symptoms akin to V2K weapon abuse hit the

headlines! That enables the establishment to insinuate that your method

works, but not for the reason you supposed, which suggested to you

conducting the project in the first place. However, you at least had a

proposed mechanism that inspired your experiments, whereas they merely have

an empirical result for which they have no proposed mechanism that holds

together, so far as I recall having read. The academic press won't see it

that way in a hurry though, you can bet your bottom dollar.

I must get around to publishing the correspondence with the intelligence

unit arising from my FOIA enquiries about V2K in the UK. Very amusing.

Please keep up the good work.

Allman

PS Could please forward this to his contact at the Essex-Cambridge

joint EHS research project? I don't have an " in " there like he does.

Coherent Space

> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 03:25:24 +0100

>

> Dear , and

>

> Is there anything useful at http://www.coherentspace.info? Mr Pinto

appears

> to have a device on offer, recently taken up in the EHS market, by Marc,

for

> evaluation purposes.

>

> Allman

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> The next generation of Search-say hello!

>

http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us & FORM=WLMTAG

>

>

[Guest guest]

The only real way to find out if this " works " is to try it. I have not

had success with calming devices in general. Even if they do work, they

seem to still bug me. I have not tried this product and it seems

unusually expensive.

If they offer a money back guarantee, I would try it.

On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Allman wrote:

> Dear , and

>

> Is there anything useful at http://www.coherentspace.info? Mr Pinto

> appears to have a device on offer, recently taken up in the EHS

> market, by Marc, for evaluation purposes.

>

> Allman

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Obviously you are not ES.

Your psycho-babble implies an agenda to prove that ES is bunk.

In your future communications, please remove any insinuations that ES

sufferers are paranoid or somehow have an emotional or mental problem

which lends to ES.

I am fine with double blind tests.

Unless you have ES, you do not understand what we live with or who we

are. Since you don't, I am fine if you would like to test us and

products to see what the results are in properly established

environments. Until then, I ask that you close your text book and open

your mind to what can cause ES.

Attacking me and others on this list and claiming that we may be

schizophrenic or paranoid, is no way to get your point across unless

you just want to destroy our position and try to disclaim us.

Do your homework before stepping into this mine field.

On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:50 AM, Allman wrote:

> n e-harassment TI with a high

> complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted

> symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS

> sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the

> mistaken

> conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

[Guest guest]

Dear Mr. Allman:

Please immediately cease and desist from sending me uninvited and

unsolicited private email correspondence, and please immediately

cease and desist from distributing my email address to your circle of

friends with the implicaition that you and I have some kind of

ongoing correspondence relationship; we do not. Please understand

that beyond my limited and occasional on-list participation in list

groups such as E-Sens, I am unable to ever engage in private personal

email or telephone correspondence with persons unless I have invited

that contact or unless they have already prepaid me for my consulting

time. As a result of your recent private email sent to a number of

your acquaintances wherein you distributed my email address and made

major misstatements about me and my work, I am already receiving even

more unsolicited attempts at private correspondence from persons on

your private email distribution list. Such overtures at private

personal correspondence were unsolicited, uninvited, and are entirely

unwelcome. Please understand that as a result of my free

informational websites and my lectures and books, I receive over two

dozen uninvited and attempts each day, seven days per week, via

private email and telephone to communicate with me; I respond to none.

Lastly, your published claims that I distribute prototype devices

free of charge to any and all persons is entirely inaccurate and

untrue. Please understand that due to your recent actions, I will no

longer be able to receive private email from your or from anyone on

your private distribution list as I have been forced to add all those

email addresses to my spam list as a prophylactic measure in light of

your recent uninvited behavior. Please understand that I live in the

state of land in the USA, which has extremely strict laws

regarding sending uninvited private emails once a sender has been

asked to cease and desist their activities.

with care,

--Vinny

At 07:50 AM 9/27/2006, Allman wrote:

>Dear

>

>You wrote, " [Vinny claims] that EMF noise from computers and other sources

>may cause 'quantum stress', and according to bio-communication theories I've

>studied, it is exactly the opposite. "

>

>It is over a quarter of a century since I scraped a distinction on my

>quantum mechanics undergraduate course on the single electron atom or ion

>(e.g. H, He+, Li++ etc), and shared the DeBroglie Prize that year with

>another undergrad. I couldn't remember much about the subject even a week

>after my finals, so I haven't a clue today what " quantum stress " is.

>

>As I understand it, Vinny's not asking anyone for money at this stage. Like

>yourself, he's offering a prototype device for volunteers to experiment

>with, free of charge, to provide some initial anecdotal evidence that his

>hypothesis is worth pursuing. He also offers (or appears to be willing to

>offer) information about his technology, whatever it may be, so that other

>researchers and developers can incorporate it into devices they are

>building. Perhaps he wants a confidentiality agreement before disclosing

>how his technology functions, because he hasn't applied for a patent yet.

>

>Your scepticism about Vinny's rationale for thinking he's got a hypothesis

>worth testing is perhaps better founded than your suspicions. However, he

>is primarily addressing the perceived needs of (subjective) EHS sufferers, I

>believe, not (subjective) e-harassment sufferers. Whereas you and I might

>wonder if some EHS sufferers are really TIs, as Klaus in Germany eventually

>came to suspect, the EHS model for explaining similar symptoms is

>exceptional sensitivity in vulnerable individals to meaningless EM

>background noise produced as a side-effect of benign machinery. That is the

>very opposite of our model, information content delivered maliciously to NAD

>targeted individuals, in order to entrain the nervous system, which set of

>effects I agree could potentially be drowned out by loud enough EM noise,

>the more noise the better.

>

>Having wrong reasons for thinking a hypothesis is worth testing isn't reason

>enough for rejecting the hypothesis out of hand when the work is already in

>progress testing it. If nothing else that benefits us, Vinny's work could

>at least provide a diagnostic tool for distingishing between EHS and

>e-harassment, other than the subjective impressions of sufferers, which

>could be just a matter of personal taste. (An e-harassment TI with a high

>complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted

>symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS

>sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the mistaken

>conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

>

>Anyway, at least one EHS sufferer is trying Vinny's invention, Marc. We're

>a long way from being to conduct trials of anything of Vinny's or yours with

>control groups issued, " blind " to the researcher, with placebo kits, etc.

>And, unless we eventually get a correlation whereby subjective EHS people

>and subjective TIs report statistically significantly different rates of

>effectiveness, we won't have a diagnostic test to distinguish TIs from EHS

>sufferers. But I've been into the EHS community partly because we and

>they do both need such a test, as badly as we both need tests to distinguish

>our respective conditions (assuming that they are different) from (say)

>schizophrenia.

>

>By the way, your work with magnets provoked a response, didn't it? Right

>after you went public on that, transcranial magnetic stimulation as a

>treatment for schizophrenia symptoms akin to V2K weapon abuse hit the

>headlines! That enables the establishment to insinuate that your method

>works, but not for the reason you supposed, which suggested to you

>conducting the project in the first place. However, you at least had a

>proposed mechanism that inspired your experiments, whereas they merely have

>an empirical result for which they have no proposed mechanism that holds

>together, so far as I recall having read. The academic press won't see it

>that way in a hurry though, you can bet your bottom dollar.

>

>I must get around to publishing the correspondence with the intelligence

>unit arising from my FOIA enquiries about V2K in the UK. Very amusing.

>

>Please keep up the good work.

>

> Allman

>

>PS Could please forward this to his contact at the Essex-Cambridge

>joint EHS research project? I don't have an " in " there like he does.

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

[Guest guest]

McAfee wrote:

> The only real way to find out if this " works " is to try it. I have not

> had success with calming devices in general. Even if they do work, they

> seem to still bug me.

Yes, well, having tried it now for a couple days, I can say most

certainly that it does *something*. However, a lot of the EMF

devices I've tried do *something*. My major evaluation criteria

is how do I feel after an 8-hour day at work using a device,

where my workplace has me sitting in front of a 21 " CRT, under

florescent lights, nearby a wireless internet transmitter, etc.

Without any devices at all, I start feeling pretty bad in less

than an hour. With the right combination of devices, I can

make it 8 hours, without problems.

But this conversation seems to make it sound like EMF protection

devices are novel and new. They aren't. Some of the devices

I've tried were invented and sold in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's.

And if one wants to try a device with a money back guarantee,

there are plenty of those around to try, too. I'd suggest one

could start with QuantumProducts.com or EarthCalm.com.

Marc

[Guest guest]

Allman wrote:

> Duncan

>

> Cc: , mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc, Klaus

> Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, McMurtrey, Grant

Generally, it's considered poor " etiquette " to cc: a discussion group

on private e-mail communications. Also, it's a bit silly, as all of

the replies are not going to be seen by the discussion group, as

the discussion group automatically rejects any e-mails from non-members.

Marc

[Guest guest]

Hello,

let me say this:

There are several *things* that seem to work for electrosensibles.

There are many people developing *things* that seem to work.

Some do have an idea, others have found in practice that something works.

But nobody knows exactly why it works.

Nobody knows that.

Because some unexplained phenomena are involved.

Some speak about *longitudinal waves*, others about left- or right turning

vortexes, others discuss *photon chemistry*, again others have investigated

special materials, which do have a shielding function.

There seems to be something going on at an atomic level.

Normal people do not have something in their body that can react.

Be aware that EHS people are not normal. And they have something in their

body that reacts, and some may react heavy!

Silvio Hellemann wrote a book: *Handbuch fuer Elektrosensible* in which he

described a number of *things* and *machines*, which would help with

electrosensibility.

I asked him which one he found the best and could recommend me.

He told me: *None, because they all suck up the negative energy, and after a

while, they start transmitting it.*

That is something that indeed occurs, especially with stuff that contain

crystals.

I have also found, that stone bricks may suck up hf signals (like those of a

cordless DECT phone) and after 1 1/2 years start emitting/reflecting those

signals.

(The signals coming TO the bricks were in the beginning 140 uW/m2, and later

200 uW/m2.

In the beginning, no reflection came off. After 1 1/2 year it was 40, than

80 and half a year later the reflection was 140 uW/m2. At the backside of

this wall were no HF sources.

Other people in Germany have experienced this effect also)

So, if Vinny is constructing his devices, it is quite possible that they are

a break-through, although he cannot tell exactly why they work. He may have

an idea, but there are so many different complicated things involved, that

it

is not nice for wanting a foolproof explanation.

However, I have two questions.

1. Does his *thing* give a shielding or protecting effect?

2. Does it have a healing effect?

I have found that by healing the health status of EHS persons, the

sensibility to EMF fields may decrease.

Be also aware that most EHS persons do have a different level of

electrosensibility.

Let us say a level from 1 to 10.

A level 3 person may go down to level 1 with a certain *thing*.

But a level 8 person, with the same *thing*, will not go down to 6, but only

7.5 or even higher.

So, a classification of electrosensibility is needed.

The level of electrosensibility of a person also determines if a certain

*thing* may help or not.

I know people where nothing helps.

I know people who react to a 9Volt battery.

So Vinny, it is essential for you to know what level of test persons

posess.

And Marc is in my opinion not a good test person, because:

1. his level of electrosensibility has been going down

2. he has a lot of gadgets around as protective devices.

3. nobody knows what the interaction between his gadgets and your device may

be.

But that is my personal opinion, because tests must be performed as

objective as possible, and all adjacent influences avoided.

Just go on in the way you have chosen.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: Coherent Space

> Dear Mr. Allman:

>

> Please immediately cease and desist from sending me uninvited and

> unsolicited private email correspondence, and please immediately

> cease and desist from distributing my email address to your circle of

> friends with the implicaition that you and I have some kind of

> ongoing correspondence relationship; we do not. Please understand

> that beyond my limited and occasional on-list participation in list

> groups such as E-Sens, I am unable to ever engage in private personal

> email or telephone correspondence with persons unless I have invited

> that contact or unless they have already prepaid me for my consulting

> time. As a result of your recent private email sent to a number of

> your acquaintances wherein you distributed my email address and made

> major misstatements about me and my work, I am already receiving even

> more unsolicited attempts at private correspondence from persons on

> your private email distribution list. Such overtures at private

> personal correspondence were unsolicited, uninvited, and are entirely

> unwelcome. Please understand that as a result of my free

> informational websites and my lectures and books, I receive over two

> dozen uninvited and attempts each day, seven days per week, via

> private email and telephone to communicate with me; I respond to none.

>

> Lastly, your published claims that I distribute prototype devices

> free of charge to any and all persons is entirely inaccurate and

> untrue. Please understand that due to your recent actions, I will no

> longer be able to receive private email from your or from anyone on

> your private distribution list as I have been forced to add all those

> email addresses to my spam list as a prophylactic measure in light of

> your recent uninvited behavior. Please understand that I live in the

> state of land in the USA, which has extremely strict laws

> regarding sending uninvited private emails once a sender has been

> asked to cease and desist their activities.

>

> with care,

> --Vinny

>

> At 07:50 AM 9/27/2006, Allman wrote:

>>Dear

>>

>>You wrote, " [Vinny claims] that EMF noise from computers and other sources

>>may cause 'quantum stress', and according to bio-communication theories

>>I've

>>studied, it is exactly the opposite. "

>>

>>It is over a quarter of a century since I scraped a distinction on my

>>quantum mechanics undergraduate course on the single electron atom or ion

>>(e.g. H, He+, Li++ etc), and shared the DeBroglie Prize that year with

>>another undergrad. I couldn't remember much about the subject even a week

>>after my finals, so I haven't a clue today what " quantum stress " is.

>>

>>As I understand it, Vinny's not asking anyone for money at this stage.

>>Like

>>yourself, he's offering a prototype device for volunteers to experiment

>>with, free of charge, to provide some initial anecdotal evidence that his

>>hypothesis is worth pursuing. He also offers (or appears to be willing to

>>offer) information about his technology, whatever it may be, so that other

>>researchers and developers can incorporate it into devices they are

>>building. Perhaps he wants a confidentiality agreement before disclosing

>>how his technology functions, because he hasn't applied for a patent yet.

>>

>>Your scepticism about Vinny's rationale for thinking he's got a hypothesis

>>worth testing is perhaps better founded than your suspicions. However,

>>he

>>is primarily addressing the perceived needs of (subjective) EHS sufferers,

>>I

>>believe, not (subjective) e-harassment sufferers. Whereas you and I might

>>wonder if some EHS sufferers are really TIs, as Klaus in Germany

>>eventually

>>came to suspect, the EHS model for explaining similar symptoms is

>>exceptional sensitivity in vulnerable individals to meaningless EM

>>background noise produced as a side-effect of benign machinery. That is

>>the

>>very opposite of our model, information content delivered maliciously to

>>NAD

>>targeted individuals, in order to entrain the nervous system, which set of

>>effects I agree could potentially be drowned out by loud enough EM noise,

>>the more noise the better.

>>

>>Having wrong reasons for thinking a hypothesis is worth testing isn't

>>reason

>>enough for rejecting the hypothesis out of hand when the work is already

>>in

>>progress testing it. If nothing else that benefits us, Vinny's work could

>>at least provide a diagnostic tool for distingishing between EHS and

>>e-harassment, other than the subjective impressions of sufferers, which

>>could be just a matter of personal taste. (An e-harassment TI with a high

>>complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-inflicted

>>symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas an EHS

>>sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the mistaken

>>conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

>>

>>Anyway, at least one EHS sufferer is trying Vinny's invention, Marc.

>>We're

>>a long way from being to conduct trials of anything of Vinny's or yours

>>with

>>control groups issued, " blind " to the researcher, with placebo kits, etc.

>>And, unless we eventually get a correlation whereby subjective EHS people

>>and subjective TIs report statistically significantly different rates of

>>effectiveness, we won't have a diagnostic test to distinguish TIs from EHS

>>sufferers. But I've been into the EHS community partly because we and

>>they do both need such a test, as badly as we both need tests to

>>distinguish

>>our respective conditions (assuming that they are different) from (say)

>>schizophrenia.

>>

>>By the way, your work with magnets provoked a response, didn't it? Right

>>after you went public on that, transcranial magnetic stimulation as a

>>treatment for schizophrenia symptoms akin to V2K weapon abuse hit the

>>headlines! That enables the establishment to insinuate that your method

>>works, but not for the reason you supposed, which suggested to you

>>conducting the project in the first place. However, you at least had a

>>proposed mechanism that inspired your experiments, whereas they merely

>>have

>>an empirical result for which they have no proposed mechanism that holds

>>together, so far as I recall having read. The academic press won't see it

>>that way in a hurry though, you can bet your bottom dollar.

>>

>>I must get around to publishing the correspondence with the intelligence

>>unit arising from my FOIA enquiries about V2K in the UK. Very amusing.

>>

>>Please keep up the good work.

>>

>> Allman

>>

>>PS Could please forward this to his contact at the Essex-Cambridge

>>joint EHS research project? I don't have an " in " there like he does.

>

>

> Vinny Pinto

> vinny@...

>

> phone 301-694-1249

>

> To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

> http://www.vinnypinto.us

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> And Marc is in my opinion not a good test person, because:

> 1. his level of electrosensibility has been going down

> 2. he has a lot of gadgets around as protective devices.

> 3. nobody knows what the interaction between his gadgets and your device may

> be.

I agree with that -- I think the best test person would be someone

who has never tried such a gadget before, and is very sensitive.

(and for all I know, if Vinny's device is within 10 feet of

some other device I own, it's effect it completely different)

But who am to turn down the opportunity to test a new gadget! :-)

Marc

[Guest guest]

Dear

There was no " psycho-babble " in my posting. I did not insinuate that

ES suffers were paranoid, or mention " mental or emotional problems "

at all. It is sheer nonsense to suggest that I have attacked anybody

on this list. I do not understand how your comments relate to what I

actually posted.

Some ES sufferes do experience problems with the " mental health "

industry, I have learnt in this group, because they consult medical

doctors who are uninformed about ES. That is why I mentioned, in

passing, that the development of a diagnostic test that distinguised

scientifically between ES and (say) schizophrenia was desirable. It

isn't because I think that most or all ES sufferers are

schizophrenic, or otherwise mentally ill. I don't suppose many ES

sufferers at all also happen to be schizophrenic. Rather, I pointed

out this need for a diagnostic test because, without it, ES sufferers

are vulnerable to misdiagnosis on the part of the " mental health "

industry, if they consult GPs who have never been trained to diagnose

ES, and who report inaccurately on the patients' symptoms, when

referring their patients to the " mental health " industry.

If you read again what I actually wrote, you will, I feel, want to

apologise, for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely.

>

> > n e-harassment TI with a high

> > complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-

inflicted

> > symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas

an EHS

> > sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the

> > mistaken

> > conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Marc

I take a diametrically opposed view to yours as to what constitutes

etiquette. If I mention somebody in an email, I usually make a point

of copying that email to the person mentioned, as I did with Vinny.

This is on the principle that I don't like people talking about me

behind my back, so won't do it to others. I apply this principle

even when the " person " mentioned is a group.

Moreover, if I'm writing about non-cinfidential information I have

learnt in a group for which I am grateful, I tend to copy to the

group, so that people in the group find out that their group's

existence and content is of broader benefit than just to the group

members, and in case anybody is interested on the " spin-off " .

Knowing your own view of etiquette, so different from mine, I'll make

a point in future of not advising this particular group, when I find

here something interesting enough here to want to tell people outside

the group about it, as was the case with Vinny's invention.

I will also have to talk behind Vinny's back in future, alas, or not

to talk about him at all. That is Vinny's express wish. I got the

wrong impression, from his announcing that he was an inventor, and

his publishing of his email address to the whole world, that he'd

appreciate correspondence with other inventors. I was mistaken. I

regret that Vinny became emotional about this misunderstanding on my

part.

> > Duncan

> >

> > Cc: , mcforums, mcactivism, mindcontrolresearchforum, Marc,

Klaus

> > Rudolph, Vinny Pinto, McMurtrey, Grant

>

> Generally, it's considered poor " etiquette " to cc: a discussion

group

> on private e-mail communications. Also, it's a bit silly, as all of

> the replies are not going to be seen by the discussion group, as

> the discussion group automatically rejects any e-mails from non-

members.

>

> Marc

>

[Guest guest]

> I take a diametrically opposed view to yours as to what constitutes

> etiquette. If I mention somebody in an email, I usually make a point

> of copying that email to the person mentioned, as I did with Vinny.

> This is on the principle that I don't like people talking about me

> behind my back, so won't do it to others. I apply this principle

> even when the " person " mentioned is a group.

Yes, but a discussion group can contain hundreds of people, so one

shouldn't send a private email to one or two people and CC:

a couple hundred people, who have no idea who you are addressing,

nor will they see the replies, because discussion groups typically

block emails from non-subscribers.

My feeling is that if you are going to send a message to a hundreds

of people, you should formulate the message so these people know

what you are talking about, and everyone can see all of the

replies.

Marc

[Guest guest]

No apology.

Be clearer about what you want up front.

On Sep 28, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Allman wrote:

> Dear

>

> There was no " psycho-babble " in my posting. I did not insinuate that

> ES suffers were paranoid, or mention " mental or emotional problems "

> at all. It is sheer nonsense to suggest that I have attacked anybody

> on this list. I do not understand how your comments relate to what I

> actually posted.

>

> Some ES sufferes do experience problems with the " mental health "

> industry, I have learnt in this group, because they consult medical

> doctors who are uninformed about ES. That is why I mentioned, in

> passing, that the development of a diagnostic test that distinguised

> scientifically between ES and (say) schizophrenia was desirable. It

> isn't because I think that most or all ES sufferers are

> schizophrenic, or otherwise mentally ill. I don't suppose many ES

> sufferers at all also happen to be schizophrenic. Rather, I pointed

> out this need for a diagnostic test because, without it, ES sufferers

> are vulnerable to misdiagnosis on the part of the " mental health "

> industry, if they consult GPs who have never been trained to diagnose

> ES, and who report inaccurately on the patients' symptoms, when

> referring their patients to the " mental health " industry.

>

> If you read again what I actually wrote, you will, I feel, want to

> apologise, for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely.

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>>> n e-harassment TI with a high

>>> complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-

> inflicted

>>> symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas

> an EHS

>>> sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the

>>> mistaken

>>> conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's Co-herent Space

Device. I have had a few years of joint pain (very excruiating at times),

etc. etc... all the common symptoms, but I am still being amazed with my

recovery. No pains anymore... at al!! I am starting to actively participate

in a social life now. It was a real effort before and I was tired, fatigued

and not interested in idle chatter. Everyday I am feeling happy and relaxed

inside, I sleep like a log and I just feel so grateful that I have been

given my life back again. My home is under constant radiation from outside

powerlines just metres from my home and there is no escape within the home

from them. Levels hover around 12mG day and night. I carry my device with me

everywhere. It certainly works for me.

Kind regards,

Helen - Australia

On 9/29/06, McAfee <amcafeerr@...> wrote:

>

> No apology.

> Be clearer about what you want up front.

>

>

>

> On Sep 28, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Allman wrote:

>

> > Dear

> >

> > There was no " psycho-babble " in my posting. I did not insinuate that

> > ES suffers were paranoid, or mention " mental or emotional problems "

> > at all. It is sheer nonsense to suggest that I have attacked anybody

> > on this list. I do not understand how your comments relate to what I

> > actually posted.

> >

> > Some ES sufferes do experience problems with the " mental health "

> > industry, I have learnt in this group, because they consult medical

> > doctors who are uninformed about ES. That is why I mentioned, in

> > passing, that the development of a diagnostic test that distinguised

> > scientifically between ES and (say) schizophrenia was desirable. It

> > isn't because I think that most or all ES sufferers are

> > schizophrenic, or otherwise mentally ill. I don't suppose many ES

> > sufferers at all also happen to be schizophrenic. Rather, I pointed

> > out this need for a diagnostic test because, without it, ES sufferers

> > are vulnerable to misdiagnosis on the part of the " mental health "

> > industry, if they consult GPs who have never been trained to diagnose

> > ES, and who report inaccurately on the patients' symptoms, when

> > referring their patients to the " mental health " industry.

> >

> > If you read again what I actually wrote, you will, I feel, want to

> > apologise, for getting hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>

> >>> n e-harassment TI with a high

> >>> complacency level and without the more obviously maliciously-

> > inflicted

> >>> symptoms could easily persuade himself that he had EHS, whereas

> > an EHS

> >>> sufferers with a high " paranoia " level could easily jump to the

> >>> mistaken

> >>> conclusion that he was an e-harassment TI.)

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's

> Co-herent Space Device.

Thanks for that report, Helen!

Did you consider yourself hypersensitive to electricity

before getting Vinny's device? That is, did you get an

obvious, immediate bad reaction when you were close to

electromagnetic fields?

Did you have any initial adjustment period where the

device caused you problems?

Marc

[Guest guest]

Hi Marc:

I am gonnna take a stab at giving you an answer because it is my

understanding that Helen does not get on the web very frequently;

please understand any information or e-mail excerpts which I share

from, or about, Helen have been shared with her explicit permission.

To answer your question:

I do not believe that Helen had ever considered herself ES -- nor had

she ever thought twice about ES -- until she moved a few years ago

into a house very close to powerlines, after which she almost

immediately started to experience a wide variety of adverse symptoms;

some of which were very severe and alarming. Apparently, it took her

over a year before she realized that her symptoms might be due to ES.

I will share a part of one of her original emails to me below, but

before sharing her letter, I would like to state that I feel that her

report of these strong benefits from my Coherent Space Quantum

Coherence devies is somewhat unusual: my observation is that some

folks who are exposed to these devices report that they feel no

effects at all, and some others simply report mild shifts such as a

more colorful dreams, happier dreams, noticing more and varied scents

in various parts of their home, disappearance of headaches, or having

a bit more energy. And then, some folks, including Rick, the very

down-to-earth analytical chemist whose report appears on my Coherent

Space website, and myself included, experience stronger (beneficial)

reactions to the devices, even though we had NEVER considered

ourselves particularly electrosensitive in the past; as a result, the

strong benefits which we experienced were a surprise to us. So, Helen

falls in the group of people who do have rather strong ES symptoms

and who respond well, which I feel accounts for only about 15% to 25%

of users of my devices; please bear in mind here that the vast

majority of the purchasers of my prototype devices are people who

have never described themselves as ES; I have historically never

tended to market my prototypes to the ES community but rather simply

to people who are already rather healthy and are simply looking to

experiment with ways to increase their levels of health and vitality

even further.

Anyway, here is an excerpt from one of Helen's first letters to me,

sent before she purchased the device:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The past few years has seen the universe sending me me on a merry

dance around EMR's. First I buy a house... but don't notice the

powerlines are very close, nor of their possible harmful effects.

Over the next few years I experience all kinds of unexplainable

health problems....

....In my 2nd year, I brought home a gauss meter and everything

started to fall into place. My home interior ranges from 6mG to 15mG,

usually averaging 12mG.

As shielding is almost impossible, I have been using only a grounding

sheet on my bed which has really become my saviour for the past year,

at least while sleeping. My body no longer vibrates, heats up and

sends me into a shock, but I can't be in the house for too long

unless I sit on the bed.

Firstly, my needs are to find something to protect myself from the

powerlines (50/60 Hz) while at home and secondly, to help bring forth

something that actually does work by using myself as the guinea-pig.

I have tried a few " devices " on the market & if I unplug my grounding

sheet (staked with a copper rod in the earth), they do nothing to

stop the vibrating etc.

I have read right through the NCI website & would like to consider

the purchase of a CS Device for Individual Biofields PoP Model IND-14

if you think it would be suited to my intended use.

HM

Australia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, I replied to her initial queery that my first recommendation

would simply be to forget about using any protective devices, and I

replied that instead, if I were in her shoes, I would consider moving

immediately from the house. She replied that moving was impossible

and asked for my advice on my devices. I replied that my intuitive

sense told me that my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices would

likely help her a lot, but I recommended that she consider purchasing

a larger device than the tiny IND-14 prototype model which she had

proposed, and I recommended that she consider at least the AUTO-21

model, if not a larger model, simply due to the severity of the

electrosmog exposure thate she was facing.

Lastly, she reported, after having used the device for over one

month, that she had indeed experienced some temporary cleansing

symptoms in the beginning; I believe the main temporary symptoms were

sneezing. Interestingly, she reported that her husband, who had never

consider himself ES, suddenly started reported that he was sleeping

much better and very deeply and peacefully once she received the

device (she tells me that she brings it into the bedroom each night

while they sleep, as its range of strongest effect is a radius of

only about 15 to 18 feet.)

Hope this helps!

with care,

--Vinny

At 10:24 AM 9/29/2006, you wrote:

> > Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's

> > Co-herent Space Device.

>

>Thanks for that report, Helen!

>

>Did you consider yourself hypersensitive to electricity

>before getting Vinny's device? That is, did you get an

>obvious, immediate bad reaction when you were close to

>electromagnetic fields?

>

>Did you have any initial adjustment period where the

>device caused you problems?

>

>Marc

>

>

>

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

[Guest guest]

Hi Marc and folks:

By the way, allow me to proactively address one issue which I touched

upon in my letter below, to perhaps forestall another flood of

private inquiries from list group members and others in the ES/EHS/EH

community. Since I have joined this lit group and also partly because

some ES sufferers have heard of me via other avenues, a number of ES

or EHS or EH sufferers -- that is, people who describe themselves as

ES (or EHS or EH) -- have contacted me and asked with a bit of

amazement why I do not seem to ever make any effort to market my

devices to the ES/EHS/EH communities. The answer to that question is

a bit subtle, and thus, I usually respond as follows:

I reply that, as a trained scientist and engineeer, and also an

intuitive, I have been playing with testing and creating such devices

in my lab since the mid-1970's, but that I have never played with

them because I considered myself particularly ES, but rather simply

because my inner guidance from Holy Spirit and my angels asked me to

do so at times. And, at the time Holy Spirit and my angels nudged me

to go back into my lab and develop this latest generation of devices

in April, May and early June of 2006, I already considered msyelf

quite healthy and certainly would never have considered myself to be

ES. Rather, I did the R & D work as asked simply because Holy Spirit

had asked me to (and all the activities in my life, including what I

eat and what prices I charge for devices are based on guidance from

Holy Spirit), and also because I have always assumed (since he early

1970s) that ALL humans and animals likely suffer some mild adverse

health/energy effects -- both short-term and chronic -- from exposure

to electrosmog, even though the vast majority of us (myself included)

would never experience adverse effects so strong that would be

labeled as ES. In fact, even though I experienced some rather

unexpected strong benefits from using my latest generation of

devices, I would not label myself as an ES sufferer.

And, I have felt quite healthy for quite a few years now, and as a

healer myself, my focus tends to be almost exclusively upon allowing

myself (and others with whom I work) upon reaching ever-higher levels

of health and vitality and well-being, rather than any kind of focus

on disease. In other words, in my own life and in my work with

clients, I focus only on those qualities of which I would like to see

more in my life; qualities such as greater health, vitality,

well-being and greater capacity for love, rather than focusing upon

illness or disease or suffering. And, this focus of mine -- a focus

upon greater levelso of health, well-being, vitality and lovingness

rather than upon diease or illness -- tends to guide not only my

spiritual healing work, but it also carries over strongly into the

various areas in which I offer consulting as well, areas such as raw

food diets, beneficial antioxidative antientropic microbes,

nutritional antioxidants and health coaching.

So, by the time -- in June of this year -- that I was asked by Holy

Spirit to start marketing some of my devices as PoP prototypes, I was

already feeling very healthy myself, and while I appreciated the fact

that my devices allowed me to have even higher levels of energy and

well-being than I had enjoyed prior to using them, I did not, and do

not, consider myself to be someone who is or was an ES sufferer. And

thus, because of this fact and because of my very strong inner bias

(i.e., toward health and vitality and not toward disease) as

disclosed in the above paragraph, I naturally started to share

information about my devices with my friends, acquaintances and

colleagues, and, of course, with the many people who belong to one or

more of my various list groups devoted to raw foods diets, sungazing,

beneficial antioxidative microbes and uber-vitality. Now, these

people whom I have mentioned above -- my friends, colleagues,

acquaintances and most members of my list groups -- are largely folks

like myself, that is, their focus is simply on allowing themselves to

reach ever-greater levels of health, well-being, vitality and

lovingness (rather than any focus on disease or suffering). And so,

all of my early customers for my prototype devices were folks from

this group, a community of people who tend to focus upon vitality and

well-being and who do not usually concern themselves with disease or

suffering.

Now, please add to the information I have shared above one more fact

-- the fact that I hate making health claims for anything, whether it

be nutritional products, exercises, techniques, or devices. For me,

that feels like skating too close to the whole Western disease

paradigm, which is not my world. And rather, I prefer to continue to

focus simply on ways of allowing greater levels of vitality and well-being.

It is now mid-September 2006, and I continue to offer my prototype

devices for sale to interested experimenters. And, as has been true

since June, when I first started offering the devices, I tend to

offer the devices primarily to persons who are not immersed in one or

more disease models or disease/disorder descriptors, but rather to

people who are focused largely upon health, well-being, happiness,

and vitality, and who have been guided on an inner level to

experiment with these devices as one more way to possibly allow

greater levels of these qualities!

So, it is entirely true that I have never tried to market my devices

to the ES community, and, as a matter of fact, I would be rather wary

of selling any of my prototype devices to anyone from the

self-identified ES community, since there seems be a good chance that

their focus might be upon disease (again, that is not my world), and

worse, they might have excessive and incorrect expectations that my

devices might somehow heal them, and this is not true -- my devices

are not medical devices and I make no health claims for them. Worse,

there are already many organizations trying to market all kinds of

various supposed " remedies " to the ES community, and I have no desire

to be trying to market anything to anyone, nor to be making any kind

of health claims at all for my devices... Thus, the bottom line is

that I prefer to offer my prottopye devices only to those who are

focused on health and vitality and who have been guided on an inner

level to play with my devices. This is a FAR DIFFERENT focus from

trying to claim that my devices will help ES, EHS and EH sufferers.

So, for those many folks who have contacted me and asked why I seem

to refuse to try to market my devices to the ES, EHS and

(self-described) EH communites, and rather, why I seem to offer them

largely to folks from other sectors, well... you may find your answer

in my notes above!

with love and care,

--Vinny

At 11:14 AM 9/29/2006, I had written:

>Hi Marc:

>

>I am gonnna take a stab at giving you an answer because it is my

>understanding that Helen does not get on the web very frequently;

>please understand any information or e-mail excerpts which I share

>from, or about, Helen have been shared with her explicit permission.

>To answer your question:

>

>I do not believe that Helen had ever considered herself ES -- nor had

>she ever thought twice about ES -- until she moved a few years ago

>into a house very close to powerlines, after which she almost

>immediately started to experience a wide variety of adverse symptoms;

>some of which were very severe and alarming. Apparently, it took her

>over a year before she realized that her symptoms might be due to ES.

>I will share a part of one of her original emails to me below, but

>before sharing her letter, I would like to state that I feel that her

>report of these strong benefits from my Coherent Space Quantum

>Coherence devies is somewhat unusual: my observation is that some

>folks who are exposed to these devices report that they feel no

>effects at all, and some others simply report mild shifts such as a

>more colorful dreams, happier dreams, noticing more and varied scents

>in various parts of their home, disappearance of headaches, or having

>a bit more energy. And then, some folks, including Rick, the very

>down-to-earth analytical chemist whose report appears on my Coherent

>Space website, and myself included, experience stronger (beneficial)

>reactions to the devices, even though we had NEVER considered

>ourselves particularly electrosensitive in the past; as a result, the

>strong benefits which we experienced were a surprise to us. So, Helen

>falls in the group of people who do have rather strong ES symptoms

>and who respond well, which I feel accounts for only about 15% to 25%

>of users of my devices; please bear in mind here that the vast

>majority of the purchasers of my prototype devices are people who

>have never described themselves as ES; I have historically never

>tended to market my prototypes to the ES community but rather simply

>to people who are already rather healthy and are simply looking to

>experiment with ways to increase their levels of health and vitality

>even further.

>

>Anyway, here is an excerpt from one of Helen's first letters to me,

>sent before she purchased the device:

>

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>The past few years has seen the universe sending me me on a merry

>dance around EMR's. First I buy a house... but don't notice the

>powerlines are very close, nor of their possible harmful effects.

>Over the next few years I experience all kinds of unexplainable

>health problems....

>...In my 2nd year, I brought home a gauss meter and everything

>started to fall into place. My home interior ranges from 6mG to 15mG,

>usually averaging 12mG.

>As shielding is almost impossible, I have been using only a grounding

>sheet on my bed which has really become my saviour for the past year,

>at least while sleeping. My body no longer vibrates, heats up and

>sends me into a shock, but I can't be in the house for too long

>unless I sit on the bed.

>Firstly, my needs are to find something to protect myself from the

>powerlines (50/60 Hz) while at home and secondly, to help bring forth

>something that actually does work by using myself as the guinea-pig.

>I have tried a few " devices " on the market & if I unplug my grounding

>sheet (staked with a copper rod in the earth), they do nothing to

>stop the vibrating etc.

>I have read right through the NCI website & would like to consider

>the purchase of a CS Device for Individual Biofields PoP Model IND-14

>if you think it would be suited to my intended use.

>HM

>Australia

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>BTW, I replied to her initial queery that my first recommendation

>would simply be to forget about using any protective devices, and I

>replied that instead, if I were in her shoes, I would consider moving

>immediately from the house. She replied that moving was impossible

>and asked for my advice on my devices. I replied that my intuitive

>sense told me that my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices would

>likely help her a lot, but I recommended that she consider purchasing

>a larger device than the tiny IND-14 prototype model which she had

>proposed, and I recommended that she consider at least the AUTO-21

>model, if not a larger model, simply due to the severity of the

>electrosmog exposure thate she was facing.

>

>Lastly, she reported, after having used the device for over one

>month, that she had indeed experienced some temporary cleansing

>symptoms in the beginning; I believe the main temporary symptoms were

>sneezing. Interestingly, she reported that her husband, who had never

>consider himself ES, suddenly started reported that he was sleeping

>much better and very deeply and peacefully once she received the

>device (she tells me that she brings it into the bedroom each night

>while they sleep, as its range of strongest effect is a radius of

>only about 15 to 18 feet.)

>

>Hope this helps!

>

>with care,

>--Vinny

>

>At 10:24 AM 9/29/2006, you wrote:

> > > Okay you guys! I am into my second month of using Vinny's

> > > Co-herent Space Device.

> >

> >Thanks for that report, Helen!

> >

> >Did you consider yourself hypersensitive to electricity

> >before getting Vinny's device? That is, did you get an

> >obvious, immediate bad reaction when you were close to

> >electromagnetic fields?

> >

> >Did you have any initial adjustment period where the

> >device caused you problems?

> >

> >Marc

> >

> >

> >

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us

[Guest guest]

Hello,

my 2 cents:

There are three types of persons with regard to elektrosmog;

1. the normal healthy people who do not have any reactions at all. Yet!!!!

2. the sensitive people with a health history, who may become

electrosensible by exposures of more than 200 uW/m2

3. the already electrosensible people, who may react at 1 uW/m2.

If we look at the category 2 type of persons, we see, that those are not

completely healthy.

They even may have hidden sickening agents in their body, lurking to come

out.

Such persons may have a benefit of the machines Vinny is promoting.

As I am saying, making the body healthier, the sensibility to elektrosmog

goes down.

As a consequence, it may also be, that these machines do not improve the

level of electrosensibility as so much, but do more improve the health state

of the body, by which the level of sensibility decreases.

So, it is quite possible that Vinnys machine *smashes two flies with one

hit*.

Just a thought.

I have never seen or experienced Vinnys machines.

So I am just guessing.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: Re: Coherent Space

> Hi Marc:

>

> I am gonnna take a stab at giving you an answer because it is my

> understanding that Helen does not get on the web very frequently;

> please understand any information or e-mail excerpts which I share

> from, or about, Helen have been shared with her explicit permission.

> To answer your question:

>

> I do not believe that Helen had ever considered herself ES -- nor had

> she ever thought twice about ES -- until she moved a few years ago

> into a house very close to powerlines, after which she almost

> immediately started to experience a wide variety of adverse symptoms;

> some of which were very severe and alarming. Apparently, it took her

> over a year before she realized that her symptoms might be due to ES.

> I will share a part of one of her original emails to me below, but

> before sharing her letter, I would like to state that I feel that her

> report of these strong benefits from my Coherent Space Quantum

> Coherence devies is somewhat unusual: my observation is that some

> folks who are exposed to these devices report that they feel no

> effects at all, and some others simply report mild shifts such as a

> more colorful dreams, happier dreams, noticing more and varied scents

> in various parts of their home, disappearance of headaches, or having

> a bit more energy. And then, some folks, including Rick, the very

> down-to-earth analytical chemist whose report appears on my Coherent

> Space website, and myself included, experience stronger (beneficial)

> reactions to the devices, even though we had NEVER considered

> ourselves particularly electrosensitive in the past; as a result, the

> strong benefits which we experienced were a surprise to us. So, Helen

> falls in the group of people who do have rather strong ES symptoms

> and who respond well, which I feel accounts for only about 15% to 25%

> of users of my devices; please bear in mind here that the vast

> majority of the purchasers of my prototype devices are people who

> have never described themselves as ES; I have historically never

> tended to market my prototypes to the ES community but rather simply

> to people who are already rather healthy and are simply looking to

> experiment with ways to increase their levels of health and vitality

> even further.

>

> Anyway, here is an excerpt from one of Helen's first letters to me,

> sent before she purchased the device:

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> The past few years has seen the universe sending me me on a merry

> dance around EMR's. First I buy a house... but don't notice the

> powerlines are very close, nor of their possible harmful effects.

> Over the next few years I experience all kinds of unexplainable

> health problems....

> ...In my 2nd year, I brought home a gauss meter and everything

> started to fall into place. My home interior ranges from 6mG to 15mG,

> usually averaging 12mG.

> As shielding is almost impossible, I have been using only a grounding

> sheet on my bed which has really become my saviour for the past year,

> at least while sleeping. My body no longer vibrates, heats up and

> sends me into a shock, but I can't be in the house for too long

> unless I sit on the bed.

> Firstly, my needs are to find something to protect myself from the

> powerlines (50/60 Hz) while at home and secondly, to help bring forth

> something that actually does work by using myself as the guinea-pig.

> I have tried a few " devices " on the market & if I unplug my grounding

> sheet (staked with a copper rod in the earth), they do nothing to

> stop the vibrating etc.

> I have read right through the NCI website & would like to consider

> the purchase of a CS Device for Individual Biofields PoP Model IND-14

> if you think it would be suited to my intended use.

> HM

> Australia

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> BTW, I replied to her initial queery that my first recommendation

> would simply be to forget about using any protective devices, and I

> replied that instead, if I were in her shoes, I would consider moving

> immediately from the house. She replied that moving was impossible

> and asked for my advice on my devices. I replied that my intuitive

> sense told me that my Coherent Space Quantum Coherence devices would

> likely help her a lot, but I recommended that she consider purchasing

> a larger device than the tiny IND-14 prototype model which she had

> proposed, and I recommended that she consider at least the AUTO-21

> model, if not a larger model, simply due to the severity of the

> electrosmog exposure thate she was facing.

>

> Lastly, she reported, after having used the device for over one

> month, that she had indeed experienced some temporary cleansing

> symptoms in the beginning; I believe the main temporary symptoms were

> sneezing. Interestingly, she reported that her husband, who had never

> consider himself ES, suddenly started reported that he was sleeping

> much better and very deeply and peacefully once she received the

> device (she tells me that she brings it into the bedroom each night

> while they sleep, as its range of strongest effect is a radius of

> only about 15 to 18 feet.)

>

> Hope this helps!

>

> with care,

> --Vinny

[Guest guest]

Hi Marc:

I agree to at least a large extent with your statement below, and

that is all the more reason why I am glad that I never try to market

the prototypes to the ES or EHS or EH communities. In fact, the

bizarre reality is that I do not market the prototype devices at all

in any sector, nor to any sector, but rather I simply let their

existence be known in certain circles and then I trust that only

those people who were guided to do so by their inner guidance (i.e.,

Supreme Heart or Holy Spirit) will ever purchase the prototype

devices for their own experiements. And, even then, as some list

members here can surely testify (smile!), I regularly turn away

prospective purchasers of these devices if I feel that the devices

may not help or if I feel that the expectations or agendas of the

prospective purchaser are unreasonable, unrealistic, or inappropriate.

And, speaking for a moment as an intuitive and spiritual healer, it

is my personal observation that for the vast majority of folks who

are diagnosed as strongly ES or EHS (or EH, for that matter), the

ES/EHS syndrome seems to be merely a symptom of imbalances or

toxicities elswehere in the complex of body/mind/spirit, and thus

that makes it all the more difficult for any single device or

technique or modality to completely and permanently ameliorate ALL of

the ES or EHS symptoms of those sufferers, as the true root cause or

problem goes well beyond the body's reaction to certain components of EMF.

with care,

--Vinny

At 02:33 PM 9/29/2006, you wrote:

> > have contacted me and asked with a bit of

> > amazement why I do not seem to ever make any effort to market my

> > devices to the ES/EHS/EH communities.

>

>It's just as well that you do not market to the ES communities,

>as ES folks are probably the most problematic audience for the

>makers of EMF protection devices!

>

>That is, folks with ES expect to see their ES symptoms to go

>away if they buy an EMF protection device, and that almost

>nearly never happens.

>

>Marc

>

>

>

>

Vinny Pinto

vinny@...

phone 301-694-1249

To see my informational websites and e-mail list groups, please go to:

http://www.vinnypinto.us