new person

[Guest guest]

had lots of night terrors and night waking (something

I had

> not connected to his diet at all!), was being woken up by stomach

cramps,

> and constantly complained of things like headaches and stomach

aches. He's

> been on enzymes for 2 weeks and these have pretty well completely

> disappeared.

This sounds like me with high phenols [i should update my info to

include the headaches, because it is my own personal symptom].

Enzymes do help some kids with phenol issues, here is more information

on that.

http://home.pacbell.net/cscomp/phenol.htm

As an aside, my mom has

Celiac's

> disease, and died as an indirect result of it at 42. I'm noticing

some

> references to Celiac's on the board (something that most people have

never

> heard of), is there some connection genetically between celiacs and

food

> sensitivities that cause behavioral problems?

Celiac would destroy the intestinal villi, making foods leak out of

the intestinal tract even more readily than they do already with the

leaky gut issue. At least that is my own personal understanding of

it. Because celiac is primarily or even completely genetic, it would

" cause " autism to be a genetic factor as well as an environmental

trigger factor. This is the situation with my family.

>

> My son does not seem to have any food allergies, but does have

reactions

> (the red ears, and he will often get very hyper/silly at the same

time),

> that I can't quite connect to certain foods (though tomato is big

one, he

> doesn't like eating many tomato foods, though, not even ketchup.)

The

> phenol information I've gotten here is great, I'm interested in

learning

> more about it. For those of you with phenol sensitive children, how

did

> they react to them?

I gave you my phenol information above, which includes red ears and

hyper/silly, and also includes tomatoes. For my son, he is hyper, and

night waking with hysterical laughter. For me, I get massive

headaches that don't go away even with overdoses of excedrin.

[Guest guest]

Welcome Eva! I've got a 15 year old son with AS, and a 20 year old daughter who

is NT. This is a great group!

Liz

Eva wrote:

> Hello, all!

>

> I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-HFA.

>

> -Eva

[Guest guest]

Hi Eva,

i am new to. my son is almost 20 and he has as. i don't have as but sometimes

i think i need to be evaluated. haha. i act a little crazy sometimes and my son

just says calm down mom, calm down. anyway welcome and write me back and tell

me a little about yourself. my son was just dx about a year ago and i am

learning all i can to help him.

take care,

Betty

( ) New person

Hello, all!

I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-HFA.

-Eva

[Guest guest]

Welcome! I never knew you could have both labels.

a

> Hello, all!

>

> I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-HFA.

>

> -Eva

[Guest guest]

Thanks! Hello.

>

> > Hello, all!

> >

> > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-

HFA.

> >

> > -Eva

[Guest guest]

Hello, thanks for the welcome. You know, I've been reading in almost

every text about autism and aspergers syndrome that the open ended

question/demand " tell me a little about yourself, " is the hardest

thing to answer. I find it almost impossible to formulate a proper

response. : )

'What's too much, what's too little? What does she really want to

know, what does anyone really want to know? Are they just saying

that to be polite? No, they must want to know something specific,

but this is a coded, trick question. I'll tell her about my interest

in sewing, that should do the trick...'

I'm sure you don't want to hear about my pathetic ventures into

sewing, but I'll share this much... I'm a newly wed mother, with two

step-children, and I have another baby on the way (possibly AS

too???).

Your son must be relieved to know what has been " with him " all these

years, eh?

> Hi Eva,

> i am new to. my son is almost 20 and he has as. i don't have as

but sometimes i think i need to be evaluated. haha. i act a little

crazy sometimes and my son just says calm down mom, calm down.

anyway welcome and write me back and tell me a little about

yourself. my son was just dx about a year ago and i am learning all

i can to help him.

>

> take care,

> Betty

> ( ) New person

>

>

> Hello, all!

>

> I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-

HFA.

>

> -Eva

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Here's the thing... what's the difference? According to the DSM, my

son and I both fit the diagnostic criteria for autism, but any

doctor would shy away from that diagnosis and opt for AS because

we're SO high functioning and appear SO normal.

However, Tony Attwood says many doctors are leaning toward only

diagnosing HFA especially in English speaking countries, and some

recognize the overlap and call it AS-HFA. If you read the Sally

Ornoff book, that's how it's commonly referenced, also, as AS-

HFA. : )

....and HEY, I know you!

> > Hello, all!

> >

> > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-

HFA.

> >

> > -Eva

[Guest guest]

Hi Eva,

your family sounds wonderful. it sounds like you are very busy. that is great

that you like to sew. i don't do that very well. and yes my son and i are

relieved to understand more about what is going on and why he has had so much

trouble.

thanks for your note,

Betty

( ) New person

>

>

> Hello, all!

>

> I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-

HFA.

>

> -Eva

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Betty.

Did your son make it through school? I dropped out. I hear from a

lot of people, my age, that they didn't make it through school. It

comes down to a value choice between wanting to be smart and sane

and wanting that ridiculous diploma. For most AS folks the two seem

mutually exclusive.

> > Hi Eva,

> > i am new to. my son is almost 20 and he has as. i don't have

as

> but sometimes i think i need to be evaluated. haha. i act a

little

> crazy sometimes and my son just says calm down mom, calm down.

> anyway welcome and write me back and tell me a little about

> yourself. my son was just dx about a year ago and i am learning

all

> i can to help him.

> >

> > take care,

> > Betty

> > ( ) New person

> >

> >

> > Hello, all!

> >

> > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have

AS-

> HFA.

> >

> > -Eva

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Eva,

no he hasn't yet. i am thinking of looking for a way for him to get educated

that won't destroy him hahahah. you know exactly what i mean. that was very

well put to be smart and sane. i moved back to texas almost 4 years ago. he

stayed with his father because the move was to much for him to handle. i didn't

know he had as at the time. i didn't know exactly what was going on with him

at the time. he had said he would move with me and when i had quit my job and

had everything ready to leave he changed his mind and well his dad tricked him

and he stayed with him. his dad did not let me talk to him so he had to sneak

out and go to phone booths and call me collect. well to make a long story short

he lasted about 10 months with old pop and i went back a got him. when we got

here i put him in school for a few months but well his peers were so mean. jake

had been doing other things and got in trouble about 3 times with the law and

finally going from one doctor to another i have come up with as. he is on 4

medications and i think is doing better. but he needs to learn more socializion

skills. he is seeing a councilor who is good but her speciallity is dealing

with sex offenders. jake has had problems with sex but isn't a sex offender.

but he is getting an education from her about what is against the law and what

isn't. when he understands that he does well. i think she is good but i don't

think she really understands as or ocd but the anxiety disorder i think she

gets. there isn't anyone in the area who understands as. the closest city is

san antonio and there aren't any specialist there either. but well we keep on

trucking along. he has had more hours at work the last few weeks and that has

really made him feel good. so who knows.

you are very sweet. write me back.

Thanks,

Betty

( ) New person

> >

> >

> > Hello, all!

> >

> > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have

AS-

> HFA.

> >

> > -Eva

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Hello, thanks for the welcome. You know, I've been reading in

almost

> every text about autism and aspergers syndrome that the open ended

> question/demand " tell me a little about yourself, " is the hardest

> thing to answer. I find it almost impossible to formulate a proper

> response. : )

>

<<snip>>

but I'll share this much... I'm a newly wed mother, with two

> step-children, and I have another baby on the way (possibly AS

> too???).

>

It's not impossible. You did it!

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

> Here's the thing... what's the difference? According to the DSM, my

> son and I both fit the diagnostic criteria for autism, but any

> doctor would shy away from that diagnosis and opt for AS because

> we're SO high functioning and appear SO normal.

While there are some like Tony Attwood who have decided that AS and

HFA are the same thing, they are technically not - at least as

described in the DSM so far. With autism you get the added feature

of a speech delay which is significant, IMO. You also get PIQ/VIQ

scores with Autism and with AS it's the opposite - VIQ over PIQ.

again, that only makes sense in light of the speech delays.

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

What's the title? I'd love to read that. Personally I've always

thought it was silly to be so nitpicky over which label to pick.

Yours was the first I heard of drs combining the two though.

So where do I know you from? No doubt another board like this one. I

lose track. Sorry.

a

If you read the Sally

> Ornoff book, that's how it's commonly referenced, also, as AS-

> HFA. : )

>

> ...and HEY, I know you!

>

>

> > > Hello, all!

> > >

> > > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have AS-

> HFA.

> > >

> > > -Eva

[Guest guest]

Then there's Hunter who has a very significant speech delay, but whom

currrently has overcome ALOT of it. And his VIQ is higher than PIQ.

It's like being half one color, half another. Yet your choices seem

to be one or the other unless you go w/ " other " . Never made sense to

me. I see Hunter as having traits of both. My dr's choice was to go

w/ neither or as I see it other: pdd-nos. Then he also used HFA in

his report. Yet when I asked if my youngest who is also pdd-nos by

this same dr was autistic(and at what level) he said not autistic at

all. He's PDD. I am soo confused. Although I kinda no longer care. I

just need support...use whatever darn label you want! YKWIM?

a...w/ in between kiddos

> While there are some like Tony Attwood who have decided that AS and

> HFA are the same thing, they are technically not - at least as

> described in the DSM so far. With autism you get the added feature

> of a speech delay which is significant, IMO. You also get PIQ/VIQ

> scores with Autism and with AS it's the opposite - VIQ over PIQ.

> again, that only makes sense in light of the speech delays.

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Eva wrote:

> Here's the thing... what's the difference?

My understanding of the DSM-IV is that there is no HFA diagnosis. The

pervasive developmental disorders are Asperger's Syndrome, Autistic

Disorder, and PDD-NOS. All are autistic spectrum disorders. AS differs

from AD in that (1) there is no significant language delay and (2) IQ

must be at a certain level.

[Guest guest]

However, you can be diagnosed with autism, according to table one of

the DSM-IV for autistic disorder, without the speech delays and even

WITH VIQ over PIQ. I think the two disorders are more alike than

not. Also, I think there is too much gray area to say that an HFA is

lower functioning always than an AS... not true methinks.

> > Here's the thing... what's the difference? According to the DSM,

my

> > son and I both fit the diagnostic criteria for autism, but any

> > doctor would shy away from that diagnosis and opt for AS because

> > we're SO high functioning and appear SO normal.

>

> While there are some like Tony Attwood who have decided that AS

and

> HFA are the same thing, they are technically not - at least as

> described in the DSM so far. With autism you get the added

feature

> of a speech delay which is significant, IMO. You also get PIQ/VIQ

> scores with Autism and with AS it's the opposite - VIQ over PIQ.

> again, that only makes sense in light of the speech delays.

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

The Sally Ornoff book is called " A Parent's Guide to Asperger

Syndrome and High Functioning Autism " : )

> > > > Hello, all!

> > > >

> > > > I'm new to your group... I and my 9 year old son both have

AS-

> > HFA.

> > > >

> > > > -Eva

[Guest guest]

I think there really are just too many people in ASD limbo to make

any concrete diagnostic criteria yet. I think it's all one disorder

with primary types and maybe it should be scored somehow for

functioning. I don't know. I don't think most doctors know what the

heck they're talking about. : )

> Then there's Hunter who has a very significant speech delay, but

whom

> currrently has overcome ALOT of it. And his VIQ is higher than

PIQ.

> It's like being half one color, half another. Yet your choices

seem

> to be one or the other unless you go w/ " other " . Never made sense

to

> me. I see Hunter as having traits of both. My dr's choice was to

go

> w/ neither or as I see it other: pdd-nos. Then he also used HFA in

> his report. Yet when I asked if my youngest who is also pdd-nos by

> this same dr was autistic(and at what level) he said not autistic

at

> all. He's PDD. I am soo confused. Although I kinda no longer care.

I

> just need support...use whatever darn label you want! YKWIM?

>

> a...w/ in between kiddos

>

> > While there are some like Tony Attwood who have decided that AS

and

> > HFA are the same thing, they are technically not - at least as

> > described in the DSM so far. With autism you get the added

feature

> > of a speech delay which is significant, IMO. You also get

PIQ/VIQ

> > scores with Autism and with AS it's the opposite - VIQ over

PIQ.

> > again, that only makes sense in light of the speech delays.

> >

> > Roxanna

[Guest guest]

> However, you can be diagnosed with autism, according to table one

of

> the DSM-IV for autistic disorder, without the speech delays and

even

> WITH VIQ over PIQ.

Actually, it is called a " communication " delay and you do have to

have one to be dx'd with autism. As for the VIQ/PIQ, that's not in

the criteria at all. It is most likely a generality that has been

noted. If there is a formal test showing this is accurate, I don't

know of it. But it does make a lot of sense. My ds is HFA and a lot

of my friends have kids who are AS. So I do see the difference.

I think the two disorders are more alike than

> not. Also, I think there is too much gray area to say that an HFA

is

> lower functioning always than an AS... not true methinks.

I definitely did not say this.

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

> > What's the title? I'd love to read that. Personally I've always

> > thought it was silly to be so nitpicky over which label to pick.

> > Yours was the first I heard of drs combining the two though.

> > So where do I know you from? No doubt another board like this

one.

> I

> > lose track. Sorry.

> >

> > a

> >

> > If you read the Sally

> > > Ornoff book, that's how it's commonly referenced, also, as AS-

> > > HFA. : )

> > >

I did not read the book but sometimes authors put the two dx's

together to be clear that they are talking about both dx's.

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Section two of table one of the diagnostic criteria for autistic

disorder is indeed the one for " communication domain " , but keep in

mind that it doesn't mean verbal vs. non verbal. To fit the bill for

an " autistic disorder you must have one or more of the sub-symptoms

from each group, from at least two of the groups. My AS son does so

easily. The section is titled " Deficits in Communication " and it

means:

2a. Delay in or total lack of development of language

No use of words to communicate by age 2

No simple phrases (for example, " more milk " ) by age 3

After speech develops, immature grammar or repeated errors

2b. Difficulty holding conversations

Has trouble knowing how to start, keep going, and/or end a

conversation

Little back and forth; may talk on and on in a monologue

Fails to respond to the comments of others; responds only to direct

questions

Difficulty talking about topics not of special interest

2c. Unusual or repetitive language

Repeating what others say to them (echolalia)

Repeating from videos, books, or commercials at inappropriate times

or out of context

Using words or phrases that the child has made up or that have

special meaning only to him/her

Overly formal, pedantic style of speaking (sounds like " a little

professor " )

A lot of children with AS have problems with communication.

> > However, you can be diagnosed with autism, according to table

one

> of

> > the DSM-IV for autistic disorder, without the speech delays and

> even

> > WITH VIQ over PIQ.

>

> Actually, it is called a " communication " delay and you do have to

> have one to be dx'd with autism. As for the VIQ/PIQ, that's not

in

> the criteria at all. It is most likely a generality that has been

> noted. If there is a formal test showing this is accurate, I

don't

> know of it. But it does make a lot of sense. My ds is HFA and a

lot

> of my friends have kids who are AS. So I do see the difference.

>

>

> I think the two disorders are more alike than

> > not. Also, I think there is too much gray area to say that an

HFA

> is

> > lower functioning always than an AS... not true methinks.

>

> I definitely did not say this.

>

> Roxanna

[Guest guest]

> Section two of table one of the diagnostic criteria for autistic

> disorder is indeed the one for " communication domain " , but keep in

> mind that it doesn't mean verbal vs. non verbal. > <<snip>>

> A lot of children with AS have problems with communication.

>

I'm not sure why you want to argue this stuff at all. I never said

children with AS don't have communication issues to deal with. To

meet the dx criteria for AS, the child must: <<There is no clinically

important general language delay (the child can speak words by age

two, phrases by age three).

>>

So this is not the same thing at all. In addition, another feature

to AS dx criteria is: <<The patient doesn't fulfill criteria for

Schizophrenia or another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder.>>

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Really? In what ways? I have one friend w/ a boy who is dxed AS.

However this child has a speech delay. Then there's my son w/ HFA.

The boys are at very different levels so I find it hard to compare.

I'm very curious though if you don't mind sharing. I simply can't peg

my oldest. I had another person post on this topic on another board.

She has 2 boys one AS one HFA. Her point of view was quite

interesting. I'm looking to see if I can find a pattern.

Thanks, a

My ds is HFA and a lot

> of my friends have kids who are AS. So I do see the difference.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks. And I saw you were a member of the HFA board too.

a

> The Sally Ornoff book is called " A Parent's Guide to Asperger

> Syndrome and High Functioning Autism " : )

[Guest guest]

I've joined them all... : )

> > The Sally Ornoff book is called " A Parent's Guide to Asperger

> > Syndrome and High Functioning Autism " : )