Re: Computers and Laptops: whats the solution?

February 21, 2010

> What do you think of the Adrenal Rebuilder? Loni

Hard to say with supplements that work slowly over the long term.

It *might* be helping... it's tolerable to take, at least...

Marc

February 21, 2010

In a message dated 22/02/2010 09:25:07 GMT Standard Time,

svetaswan@... writes:

For myself, I just don't see how things could be much worse using a newer

laptop. Lord help me if the newer laptops are somehow worse than this one!

As for your theory on the laptop processors - from what I've read or been

told, some of the newest laptops use " low voltage " or " ultra low voltage "

processors (such as some of the Intel Atom processors) that are supposed to

emit less emf, and lead to better tolerance. So perhaps there are better

options than there were even two years ago. My knowledge/understanAs for

your theory on

Puk replies - Sometimes it seems as crazy as a person who has a peanut

allergy still trying to work out how to stay employed in the Snickers factory

! Laptops and PCs are one of the most intimate EMF (SPARING THE

MOBILE)devices that we work with, they all spew out EMR, over a range of

frequencies

from the unit as a whole, the only way to stop that is to locate the on/off

button and hit the unit with a large hammer ! I guess as I have learnt

over the years, life is full of trade offs, that is especially true when it

comes to making decisions about our health, we tend to accept the ill

feelings, take risks and so on, where there is a good enough reward for doing

so,

smoking/drinking..... using a mobile perhaps, oh and Work!

I dont think that there is a laptop out there that can be that EMR quiet

that it wont skrew up a good percentage of Essers, it is perhaps the cycle of

excessive suffer/reward that brought many an Esser to develop the

condition in the first place, so perhaps it would be better to move away from

such

slavish reliance on these technologies and only use them as absolutely

necessary thus keeping the suffering to a minimum... I say all of this eating

my words as I type on this PC, beginning to feel like crap, Does anyone know

a PC that I can use that wont make me feel this way - Confused - you will

be !!!

Puk ps Distance is everthing

February 22, 2010

I figured that there should be printers on the market now that had these

capabilities. I see that there are printers that allow you to hook up, say, a

digital camera directly to it and " preview " the pics on an embedded screen - so

I thought that there should be printers that would allow you to hook up a Flash

Drive or something like that, and preview documents. But the printers I was

looking at on amazon.com (though I didn't look at all of them) only mentioned

digital camera and (IIRC) cell phones/blackberries as connectible devices - not

memory drives. The info on these printers also didn't make any reference to

being able to preview documents - only photos.

I also noticed that more and more printers are boasting " wireless " capabilities

- and at this point, I'm leery of anything wireless. Could it be that these

companies assume that people would prefer to print documents using a wireless

command - rather than use a memory stick, so they build these printers with

wireless capabilities but with no real option for printing docus from memory

sticks?

Maybe I need to do more research. (The time/energy I've spent trying to figure

this stuff out has gone toward trying to figure out a " safer " computer to buy.)

~Svetaswan

>

> >

>> > As good as this desktop, or nettop sounds, I'm afraid that it just won't be

> > very practical for me go the desktop route (even very small ones would pose

> > a problem). Just one of the reasons: I need something portable that I can

> > hook up to a printer in the basement - I need to bring the computer to the

> > printer, because I won't be able to bring the printer to the computer. (This

> > nettop seems pretty portable, but I would need a monitor to be able to use

> > the printer.)

> > ~Svetaswan

> >

February 22, 2010

Hi - you seem to be right in speculating that everyone is different.

For about two years, I've been using a Dell Latitude D600 (laptop) that a family

member brought home from his job. I found out that this particular model was

released in 2003 or 2004, so I'm assuming that this particular laptop is around

that age.

Well, I've had pretty significant/bothersome symptoms from this laptop that has

caused me to learn about electrosensitivity the hard way. Before this laptop, I

really didn't have any noticeable electrosensitivity that I can recall...I don't

think I was even aware that there was a such thing as electrosensitivity!

So I've gotten sick/worse using a laptop that's older than yours.

For myself, I just don't see how things could be much worse using a newer

laptop. Lord help me if the newer laptops are somehow worse than this one!

As for your theory on the laptop processors - from what I've read or been told,

some of the newest laptops use " low voltage " or " ultra low voltage " processors

(such as some of the Intel Atom processors) that are supposed to emit less emf,

and lead to better tolerance. So perhaps there are better options than there

were even two years ago. My knowledge/understanding this subject is quite

limited - so I can't speak with any certainty on whether these " low voltage

processors " would " compensate " (and nullify the possible benefits) by using more

of the bothersome, (super) high-frequency currents. I somehow equate " lower

voltage " with " higher frequency " . But people who are far more knowledgable than

I am seem to believe that these low-voltage processors would help. Eli recently

submitted a post that listed exactly which processors to look for.

~Svetaswan

>

> No idea why I can bear the old Acer laptop... Probably I can bear other

laptops that are 5 years old...

>

> I think it should be one of these 4 that's bothering me with new laptops:

>

> 1. The processor/motherboard

> The new laptops all use the same Intel-processors (also Apple) which are much

faster and probably emit other/higher frequencies... but I (think) I can stand

new destkops (which use the same processors I suppose?), so that doesn't make

sense...

>

> 2. Harddrive

> It could also be the EMF from the harddrive but I don't think so, I have a

recent external drive and I can stand that...

>

> 3. Wifi card

> There is no Wifi card on the old Acer, which is just great!

> But whilst testing recent models I did put off the Wifi so... I had an

external Wifi card on the Acer and felt no difference (although I could measure

the difference).

>

> 4. 3G card

> For a short period I had a 3G-card from somebody else (for surfing on the

cellphone-masts; this is for Europe) and that did got me really sick, but on the

laptops I tested 2 years ago there was no 3G-card for standard...

>

> So it's not easy to tell why... Probably it's different for everybody...

>

> .

>

February 22, 2010

Hi Svetaswan,

About the laptops, it might be worth trying the low voltage processors... Me, I

haven't come up with any recent laptop that works for me. Immediately I get a

headache... Last week my client took his laptop... ouch!

The only thing I know for sure is that it is best to actually try before buying

and all the rest is speculation...

So what works best for me is my 4.5 year old Acer (Travelmate 240; 2.60 GHz and

750 Mb Ram) or I think (new) desktops...

Recently I was with my graphic designer, he has two new Apple/Mac and I stayed

quite close to the Mac's for at least 4 hours and I was fine or at least not

having the immediate headache as with new laptops.

If you don't necessarily need a laptop, I would definitely advise a desktop...

Even if it's harming you as much as a laptop you still can put the desktop

further away from you...

For any laptop you would use, always hook up an external (non-wireless) keyboard

(much less emf whilst typing).

has written good things on the desktop from -Asrock:

/message/16423

> > A few days in the PC is turning out to be a great purchase, EMF and

dirty

> > electricity readings have kept very low.

> >

> > The magnetic readings come out of at 1.5ish on the 0-3 magnetic range on

> a

> > Trifield meter. Nothing coming out of radio or electric ranges. I

decided

> > to turn the Wi-fi off.

> >

Greets,

.

> >

> > No idea why I can bear the old Acer laptop... Probably I can bear other

laptops that are 5 years old...

> >

> > I think it should be one of these 4 that's bothering me with new laptops:

> >

> > 1. The processor/motherboard

> > The new laptops all use the same Intel-processors (also Apple) which are

much faster and probably emit other/higher frequencies... but I (think) I can

stand new destkops (which use the same processors I suppose?), so that doesn't

make sense...

> >

> > 2. Harddrive

> > It could also be the EMF from the harddrive but I don't think so, I have a

recent external drive and I can stand that...

> >

> > 3. Wifi card

> > There is no Wifi card on the old Acer, which is just great!

> > But whilst testing recent models I did put off the Wifi so... I had an

external Wifi card on the Acer and felt no difference (although I could measure

the difference).

> >

> > 4. 3G card

> > For a short period I had a 3G-card from somebody else (for surfing on the

cellphone-masts; this is for Europe) and that did got me really sick, but on the

laptops I tested 2 years ago there was no 3G-card for standard...

> >

> > So it's not easy to tell why... Probably it's different for everybody...

> >

> > .

> >

>

February 22, 2010

> For myself, I just don't see how things could be much worse using a

> newer laptop. Lord help me if the newer laptops are somehow worse than this

> one!

Well, as computers get faster and faster, I think there is more potential

for damaging frequencies coming out of them. We've now got faster CPU's,

faster motherboards, faster memory, faster interfaces with our hard drives,

faster ethernet, higher-resolution video, more energy-efficient power

supplies, etc.

We've simply got to get better faster than the rate of everything around

us getting worse!

Marc

February 24, 2010

I suspect it has a lot more factors involved then just EMF

waves.Â Chemicals used in manufacturing, wi-fi, and perhaps other

toxic aspects of computers we arent even aware of such as the plastics

or metals they use.

I know it is more then just EMF, cause a lot of computers and computer

components and other devices bother me even when they are turned off!

From: Marc <marc@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Computers and Laptops: whats the solution?

Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 9:45 AM

Â

> No idea why I can bear the old Acer laptop... Probably I can bear other

> laptops that are 5 years old...

It's also possible that it has nothing to do with the vintage of the

laptop. I know that we once had a Dell laptop made around 1998 that

was utterly intolerable to me, yet a 2006 IBM laptop was pretty good...

Marc

February 24, 2010

In a message dated 24/02/2010 21:27:38 GMT Standard Time,

acekingsuited06@... writes:

No idea why I can bear the old Acer laptop... Probably I can bear other

> laptops that are 5 years old...

It's also possible that it has nothing to do with the vintage of the

laptop. I know that we once had a Dell laptop made around 1998 that

was utterly intolerable to me, yet a 2006 IBM laptop was pretty good...

PUK REPLIES - Maybe it is simply poor EMC design of the product, perhaps as

the manufacterers have had to cater for a larger more product hungry

market they simply cut corners and become more lax with the latter rather like

Toyota whos Ceo admitted that they had in a roundabout way secome to greed

where the high pace turnover of the product outstripped the technical

abilities of thier staff. It could be siad that many of the products such as

TVs

pcs, mobiles are slowly killing us, but unfortunately the regulations are

so skewed such harmful effects dont evan touch the sides ! Old computers

may have had the luxury of better and more careful design, modern life is

littered with this phenomenon of short term thinking.

February 25, 2010

In a message dated 25/02/2010 13:58:25 GMT Standard Time,

@... writes:

Regulation for emf (low emf as well) is lowest in Russia. Maybe we should

go buy our electronics in Russia!

Maybe laptops being sold in Russia will emit less emf than the ones sold

in the States?

.

puk replies - you could also check out military spec laptops these are well

sheilded and rugged.

February 25, 2010

Regulation for emf (low emf as well) is lowest in Russia. Maybe we should go buy

our electronics in Russia!

Maybe laptops being sold in Russia will emit less emf than the ones sold in the

States?

.

Sources:

1.

http://www.tesla.ru/english/protection/standards.html

Thus, EMF maximum permissible levels established by Russian national standards

at 0 Hz - 300 GHz frequency range are the strictest ones in worldwide and

provide the maximal protection of human under the EMF exposure.

2.

http://archives.lists.indymedia.org/imc-uk/2003-December/002179.html

All the above has been widely known for some 40 years, as these effects

were first documented by Russian scientists from the late 1950s onward.

When it first became known in the " West " the US/NATO (yes the Yanks),

dismissed it as black propaganda. Since 1990 the IEEE have repeatedly

attempted to " harmonize " the Russian standards by raising the " safe "

levels in Russia upwards by 1000 times. The answer is still NO.

The driving force behind maintaining the high unsafe standard in the

West (UK/EU/USA/Can/Aus/NZ) is the financial implication for the cold

war warriors.

If the lower standard were adopted the MILITARY would need to purchase

many square miles of land around their high power radar and radio sites

to remove the public from areas where the lower standard said was unsafe.

The MILITARY could also expect to pay out vast sums in successful death

and injury claims to ex-military and civilian persons who have been

affected by exposure to previously consider " safe " RF levels.

3.

http://www.who.int/docstore/peh-emf/EMFStandards/who-0102/Worldmap5.htm

EMF Regulations for each country

>

> In a message dated 24/02/2010 21:27:38 GMT Standard Time,

> acekingsuited06@... writes:

>

> No idea why I can bear the old Acer laptop... Probably I can bear other

>

> > laptops that are 5 years old...

>

> It's also possible that it has nothing to do with the vintage of the

>

> laptop. I know that we once had a Dell laptop made around 1998 that

>

> was utterly intolerable to me, yet a 2006 IBM laptop was pretty good...

>

> PUK REPLIES - Maybe it is simply poor EMC design of the product, perhaps as

> the manufacterers have had to cater for a larger more product hungry

> market they simply cut corners and become more lax with the latter rather

like

> Toyota whos Ceo admitted that they had in a roundabout way secome to greed

> where the high pace turnover of the product outstripped the technical

> abilities of thier staff. It could be siad that many of the products such as

TVs

> pcs, mobiles are slowly killing us, but unfortunately the regulations are

> so skewed such harmful effects dont evan touch the sides ! Old computers

> may have had the luxury of better and more careful design, modern life is

> littered with this phenomenon of short term thinking.

>

February 28, 2010

I'm new to the group, but this thread is in-line with what I've been dealing

with so I figured I'd share my history as it may help someone out. I'm in the

information technology industry so staying away from PCs is hard

I am sensitive newer machines (desktops or laptops) so for the last 5 years or

so I've been using an older Toshiba Protégé M200 Table PC. To get more

processing power I use Windows " Remote Desktop " to connect to more powerful

machines that are in different buildings. So far this has been working great,

but I continue to look into whether I'll ever be able to get a faster laptop.

Here's what I've tried:

1. Had to give my Toshiba M200 back to my previous employer three years ago and

I purchased an AMD Dual Core driven HP Laptop and found I was sensitive to

laptops for the first time (was already senstive to newer cell phones so I had

an idea of what was going on). I returned it.

2. I then tried a Lenovo X200 Tablet (had dual core Intel processors) thinking

it may be the processor brand and found I was sensitive to that.

3. I then tried a newer version of the Toshiba Protégé (had Dual Core Intel

Processors) thinking it was the brand of PC, but I still had issues

3. I ended up buying a used Toshiba M200 Tablet like I had at my previous

employer which I still use now

4. Purchased a Compaq Presario driven by a Intel Celeron for my wife and I have

no issues so I thought maybe it had to do with the processors and the new ULV

processors would be better when they came out (they weren't released yet)

5. Recently purchased a Lenovo with ULV processors and although my sensitivity

is not as bad as most other machines I still have issues (enough to keep me

looking)

6. I love the Lenovo so I sent the laptop to http://www.safelevel.com/ for

shielding to test that out, but it didn't seem to help. They shielded the Low

Frequencies so I'm assuming since I still have issues I'm sensitive to higher

frequencies. I'm going to continue using the Lenovo for now in hopes I adjust to

it…..wishful thinking I know.

7. As a final test on determining if it's based on processors I just ordered a

Dell using an singe core Intel Celeron processor...I'm hoping I'll be able to

use that and I'll let everyone know the results once I get it.

So in summary, I have no solution yet other than a work around by using an older

machine and if you need more processing power find a way to store a high powered

machine somewhere else and leverage " Remote Desktop " .

>

> In a message dated 25/02/2010 13:58:25 GMT Standard Time,

> @... writes:

>

> Regulation for emf (low emf as well) is lowest in Russia. Maybe we should

> go buy our electronics in Russia!

>

> Maybe laptops being sold in Russia will emit less emf than the ones sold

> in the States?

>

> .

>

> puk replies - you could also check out military spec laptops these are well

> sheilded and rugged.

>

February 28, 2010

Hi Heinrich,

Welcome here,

I kinda have the same problem with laptops. I'm now still working on a 4.5 year

old Acer as this is the only laptop I know I can stand...

Like you, I've tried a lot of new laptops of different brands (I tried like 7

different ones) and with all of them I get sick.

I don't have that much problem with desktops (any brand)/

About shielding, I don't know anything about that. Probably interesting things

on this you can find by searching on older posts (download files and use PG

Offload Shareware).

I think the best to do is to put your laptop as far away from you as possible,

I've read posts of people that hook up a projector for projection on the wall or

on a tv-screen... I just have a seperate keyboard as I've read it makes a big

difference (and you should also have a seperate mouse).

.

> >

> > In a message dated 25/02/2010 13:58:25 GMT Standard Time,

> > @ writes:

> >

> > Regulation for emf (low emf as well) is lowest in Russia. Maybe we should

> > go buy our electronics in Russia!

> >

> > Maybe laptops being sold in Russia will emit less emf than the ones sold

> > in the States?

> >

> > .

> >

> > puk replies - you could also check out military spec laptops these are well

> > sheilded and rugged.

> >

March 5, 2010

Hi guys,

, is it possible that you could tell me the specific type of processor

that's inside of your 4.5-year-old Acer? (Such as Intel Atom 1.6 GHz, or Intel

Core 2 Duo 1.66 GHz, or Intel i7 1.20 GHz, etc.)

And Heinrich (welcome, and thanks for that helpful post ), is it possible

that you could tell me the specific type of processor that's inside of your

Lenovo laptop? (The one that you're currently using and are having some

problems with, but are fond of anyway?)

I'm still hunting around for a laptop, trying to make some sort of " educated

guess " about one that I may (better) tolerate. Right now, I'm focused/obsessed

with processors - since I've been informed that the type of processor can

influence how tolerable a computer/laptop is.

The Intel website has some helpful info about most of its processors - this

page, for ex., allows you to pull up the specific type of Intel processor you're

interested in, and get info on its characteristics. One of the parameters I've

been focusing on is the " Thermal Design Power " (TDP) - it is my impression (and

those who are more knowledgable feel free to correct and/or elaborate) that the

lower this number is, the better. Many of the Intel Atom processors, for ex.,

have TDPs in the low single digits!

http://processorfinder.intel.com/Default.aspx

I've found that some of the latest processors aren't found in this utility, but

I've usually been able to get certain information on the unlisted processors by

typing them into Google. Googling these processors has led me to a page like

this one:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43568

Anyway, thanks in advance if you guys can provide me with your processor info.

~Svetaswan

> >

> > I'm new to the group, but this thread is in-line with what I've been dealing

with so I figured I'd share my history as it may help someone out. I'm in the

information technology industry so staying away from PCs is hard

> >

> > I am sensitive newer machines (desktops or laptops) so for the last 5 years

or so I've been using an older Toshiba Protégé M200 Table PC. To get more

processing power I use Windows " Remote Desktop " to connect to more powerful

machines that are in different buildings. So far this has been working great,

but I continue to look into whether I'll ever be able to get a faster laptop.

Here's what I've tried:

> >

> > 1. Had to give my Toshiba M200 back to my previous employer three years ago

and I purchased an AMD Dual Core driven HP Laptop and found I was sensitive to

laptops for the first time (was already senstive to newer cell phones so I had

an idea of what was going on). I returned it.

> > 2. I then tried a Lenovo X200 Tablet (had dual core Intel processors)

thinking it may be the processor brand and found I was sensitive to that.

> > 3. I then tried a newer version of the Toshiba Protégé (had Dual Core Intel

Processors) thinking it was the brand of PC, but I still had issues

> > 3. I ended up buying a used Toshiba M200 Tablet like I had at my previous

employer which I still use now

> > 4. Purchased a Compaq Presario driven by a Intel Celeron for my wife and I

have no issues so I thought maybe it had to do with the processors and the new

ULV processors would be better when they came out (they weren't released yet)

> > 5. Recently purchased a Lenovo with ULV processors and although my

sensitivity is not as bad as most other machines I still have issues (enough to

keep me looking)

> > 6. I love the Lenovo so I sent the laptop to http://www.safelevel.com/ for

shielding to test that out, but it didn't seem to help. They shielded the Low

Frequencies so I'm assuming since I still have issues I'm sensitive to higher

frequencies. I'm going to continue using the Lenovo for now in hopes I adjust to

it…..wishful thinking I know.

> > 7. As a final test on determining if it's based on processors I just ordered

a Dell using an singe core Intel Celeron processor...I'm hoping I'll be able to

use that and I'll let everyone know the results once I get it.

> >

> > So in summary, I have no solution yet other than a work around by using an

older machine and if you need more processing power find a way to store a high

powered machine somewhere else and leverage " Remote Desktop " .

> >

March 5, 2010

I do not see the problem with the processors in computers.

I have tried to measure the impact of processors, but to no avail.

Elektrosmog sources with computers are mostly the big transformer, the

harddisks, some keyboards and mice, the cooling fans and the monitor.

Here magnetic fields as well as VLF play an important part.

I have also found with for instance an Acer laptop heavy VLF on the square

touch field.

There a mause is certainly needed.

See also, that with table computers, the electricity must be grounded.

(Without grounding it is possible that even Windows can crash!)

And all connected apparatus must be grounded also.

And if a grounding is not available, make one yourself.

And don't be mistaken.

*Dirty air* reaches very far with electrosensitives!

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie