Guest guest Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 hi Cheryl, Snoshoe, and All, i have noticed in the past several months i can not usually change channels with the remote either--just thought my remote was dying. the remote is also not elsewise affected, tho. as for digital transmission making tv reception better, i have seldom in my relatively long life seen transmission so bad! at least here, we lose transmission regularly every night for nearly 2 years now. some time i am going to call the local cable carrier and ask them when they went digital--i thought maybe it was FROM going digital. regularly, either the sound, the picture, or both just disappear for no good reason. before this only happened during storms. d From: snoshoe_2 <snoshoe_2 (DOT) com> Subject: Re: Metal Objects groups (DOT) com Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 8:10 AM the only thing a microwave oven is good for, is cut off the cord and use it as a faraday cage to protect items from an emp! I was looking for a page, I believe it is in this website; even consuming microwaved water changes your blood chemistry and causes genetic damage. You're just x-raying yourself at a slower rate, that's all. http://www.microwav enews.com/ I've met several people who have trouble with objects feeling hot, or radioactive, shocks, etc. from metals. They cook computers, I fried a tv once, so you're not alone there Jennie. One young woman back from Iraq was able to start her car by touching the solenoid. She also cracked the glass on the front of her mom's microwave by just touching it. So, you would be highly electronegative. Sorry, I had a helpful comment there also, but my head has been unusually fuzzy the past few days, and it just escapes me. It had been doing better till then. ~ Snoshoe > > > > Greetings, > > > > I have a strange questions, I have not heard of this symptom from EMS but is something I struggle with. > > > > I can not touch metal items. When I do I get a very uncomfortable sick feeling. When I am really struggling with my EMS if I pick up a metal object I will drop it like it just came out of a hot over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 > Metal objects in beds can be magnetic. Presumably, this could be a problem for all metal objects and people with ES? Would using a demagnetizer on metal objects be helpful? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Sure. I do know an electrosensible, who demagnetizes the tires of his car every 5000 KM. There are some companies who do have large demagnetize equipment for houses. Steel beams and the reinforcement bars in concrete can be very magnetic. I am familiar with a women, who had built a large home, and on the second floor of about 100 m2, she had planned to dance there on the marmor floor, but could not withstand the heavy static magnetic fields. In another house, the lady could not sit on a certain spot in the kitchen because of heavy magnetic fields. The house had a large number of aluminium windows and doors, and horizontal window panes. They all work like antennas for radio waves, which were also present in heavy amounts. After an electricien had grounded all windows and doors, as well as the metal rain gutters, the amaount of radiowaves inside the house was much less. Because the electricity mains was also checked and the grounding corrected, the aforementioned magnetic spot in the kitchenfloor was gone also. Do not underestimate the influence of static magnetic fields. Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ for it. What happens is, that the body reacts in a special way. But you do not know on what source exactly. Elektrosmog exists of: -electrical AC and DC fields -magnetic AC and DC fields -electromagnetic waves and I have found that there are also some VLF frequencies, which do not seem to be connected to either electrical nor magnetic fields. Their strength are not proportional to the hardly measurable fields. But electrosensibles can react to them heavily, evan at large distances. The main culprit with electrosensibility is the quality of the information which is contained in the elektrosmog. In understanding that, it seems more plausible that some persons do not react to heavy amounts of elektrosmog, while they may react hard to very tiny amounts of other elektrosmog sources. The dose-response principle does not work for many electrosensibles. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects >> Metal objects in beds can be magnetic. > > Presumably, this could be a problem for all metal objects > and people with ES? > > Would using a demagnetizer on metal objects be helpful? > > Marc > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Demagnetizing tires makes a difference in AC fields because they rotate. I suppose dancing over a non-uniform DC field would create transients, but I would not regard this as a significant AC source-- I suspect in that case it would have more to do with a perception of rotation of the earth's field, which could cause disorientation? It would be nice to have a database of what symptoms people have felt from what sources... might shed some light on the mechanism. Bill On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 10:13 AM, <charles@...> wrote: > > > Sure. > > I do know an electrosensible, who demagnetizes the tires of his car every > 5000 KM. > > There are some companies who do have large demagnetize equipment for > houses. > > Steel beams and the reinforcement bars in concrete can be very magnetic. > > I am familiar with a women, who had built a large home, and on the second > floor of about 100 m2, she had planned to dance there on the marmor floor, > but could not withstand the heavy static magnetic fields. > > In another house, the lady could not sit on a certain spot in the kitchen > because of heavy magnetic fields. > The house had a large number of aluminium windows and doors, and horizontal > window panes. > They all work like antennas for radio waves, which were also present in > heavy amounts. > After an electricien had grounded all windows and doors, as well as the > metal rain gutters, the amaount of radiowaves inside the house was much > less. > Because the electricity mains was also checked and the grounding corrected, > the aforementioned magnetic spot in the kitchenfloor was gone also. > > Do not underestimate the influence of static magnetic fields. > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ > for it. > > What happens is, that the body reacts in a special way. > But you do not know on what source exactly. > Elektrosmog exists of: > -electrical AC and DC fields > -magnetic AC and DC fields > -electromagnetic waves > and I have found that there are also some VLF frequencies, which do not > seem to be connected to either electrical nor magnetic fields. Their > strength are not proportional to the hardly measurable fields. > But electrosensibles can react to them heavily, evan at large distances. > > The main culprit with electrosensibility is the quality of the information > which is contained in the elektrosmog. > In understanding that, it seems more plausible that some persons do not > react to heavy amounts of elektrosmog, while they may react hard to very > tiny amounts of other elektrosmog sources. > > The dose-response principle does not work for many electrosensibles. > > Greetings, > Claessens > member Verband Baubiologie > www.milieuziektes.nl > www.milieuziektes.be > www.hetbitje.nl > checked by Norton > > > Re: Metal objects > > >> Metal objects in beds can be magnetic. > > > > Presumably, this could be a problem for all metal objects > > and people with ES? > > > > Would using a demagnetizer on metal objects be helpful? > > > > Marc > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbruno@... writes: Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ > for it. UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the skin is jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without entering the concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ may not be requires at this level and so on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 In a message dated 06/10/2009 11:49:26 GMT Daylight Time, charles@... writes: Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Uk replies - I think you are playing devils advocat with this statement then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Hello , I must contradict you here. It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to dispute and discussion. According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog. Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk electrosensibles. All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the elektrosmog source was on or off. Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is certainly not the case. Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation. And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way. And thereby also is playing the *timefactor*. The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM mobile phone mast. The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or the legs, depending on the person. The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach. So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda , may give a relief. A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear anything, so there is no sound under water. WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many sounds under water. Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears. Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies. Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbruno@... > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Hundreds of years ago scientist didn't know what germs were but they were the cause of illness. And there were a variety of degrees of illness or none at all with in the population. I don't think they were able to understand the concept of germs and what they could do until they were scientifically able to prove germs existed. I think the same is true for us now. Scientist don't have the tools to test for electromagnetic sensitivities and those who are effect react differently under different types of electromagnetic energy as Charlies stated. But as said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers. jw Jennie Wassenaar ________________________________ From: " paulpjc@... " <paulpjc@...> Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:22:57 AM Subject: Re: Metal objects In a message dated 06/10/2009 11:49:26 GMT Daylight Time, charles@milieuziekt es.be writes: Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Uk replies - I think you are playing devils advocat with this statement then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Feel or React just a play on words. I use the terminology feel here but maybe I should say react. ???? Loni From: charles@... <charles@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM Hello , I must contradict you here. It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to dispute and discussion. According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog. Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk electrosensibles. All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the elektrosmog source was on or off. Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is certainly not the case. Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation. And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way. And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* . The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM mobile phone mast. The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or the legs, depending on the person. The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach. So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda , may give a relief. A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear anything, so there is no sound under water. WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many sounds under water. Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears. Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies. Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbrunogmail (DOT) com > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Great Point Jennie! Loni From: Jennie Wassenaar <ad-in@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 6:42 AM Hundreds of years ago scientist didn't know what germs were but they were the cause of illness. And there were a variety of degrees of illness or none at all with in the population. I don't think they were able to understand the concept of germs and what they could do until they were scientifically able to prove germs existed. I think the same is true for us now. Scientist don't have the tools to test for electromagnetic sensitivities and those who are effect react differently under different types of electromagnetic energy as Charlies stated. But as said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers. jw Jennie Wassenaar ____________ _________ _________ __ From: " paulpjcaol (DOT) com " <paulpjcaol (DOT) com> groups (DOT) com Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2009 7:22:57 AM Subject: Re: Metal objects In a message dated 06/10/2009 11:49:26 GMT Daylight Time, charles@milieuziekt es.be writes: Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Uk replies - I think you are playing devils advocat with this statement then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 That is correct. No feeling but reacting. If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure has long been gone. Some people cannot sleep in an elektrosmog poor surrounding, because their body is now reacting to the exposures they were submitted during daytime. That is the aforementioned timefactor. The delayed time of reaction. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbrunogmail (DOT) > com > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I react fairly quickly but some delayed also. Loni From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziekt es.be> Subject: Re: Metal objects groups (DOT) com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM Hello , I must contradict you here. It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to dispute and discussion. According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog. Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk electrosensibles. All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the elektrosmog source was on or off. Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is certainly not the case. Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation. And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way. And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* . The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM mobile phone mast. The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or the legs, depending on the person. The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach. So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda , may give a relief. A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear anything, so there is no sound under water. WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many sounds under water. Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears. Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies. Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbrunogmail (DOT) > com > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:59:13 GMT Daylight Time, charles@... writes: That is correct. No feeling but reacting. If you have read the issue of *het bitje* September 2009, you could have seen, that the impact and registering in the body is immediately, but the biological reaction comes later on, and interestingly even when the exposure has long been gone. uk replies - There is no time delay when I stand by a powerful mobile or drive my car along the motorway and feel the waves from these devices without any visual or other clues. The thing in question is wether its the waves and thier many components that you feel and react to and then wether this causes any harm, and how you raect may be multifaceted in both physiological and phychological responses and so on..In essense the reaction time is probably dependant on a whole plethora of factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, loni326@... writes: But as said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers. uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not. The word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause and effect. What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation) - " feel " - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the supermarket starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected by the waves that cuase me to " feel " ill - Its so hard to divorce this handy word from our ES experiences. Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time, charles@... writes: No, still refuses to accept the truth. A hundred studies have*scientificallyA hundred studies have*scientifi There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body. uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling ? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not, obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Me too, Loni. I can " feel " (headache, burning skin) a cell tower just over the crest of the hill further down the road, before actually even seeing it often. But if the road, for instance, is running the length of a long valley, and so I am exposed 10 minutes or more or exposed to multiple sources of high RF or (even worse for me) high magnetic fields during over the course of 10 to 20 mins, then my bp tanks, I get anxious, have problems breathing, get chills, feel suddenly drained of energy.... And unless I take my pantethine and calcium AEP (which I try to always carry with me), the incident will affect me over several days. I can see effects of 1 bad exposure for up to a week, and sometimes more than that on my energy, if I do not get my bp up soon enough. Sometimes I have taken 12 pantethine/calcium capsules over the course of 2 hours before I could get my bp to respond. my 2 cents, Diane From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be> Subject: Re: Metal objects groups (DOT) com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM Hello , I must contradict you here. It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to dispute and discussion. According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog. Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk electrosensibles. All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the elektrosmog source was on or off. Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is certainly not the case. Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation. And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way. And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* . The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM mobile phone mast. The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or the legs, depending on the person. The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach. So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda , may give a relief. A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear anything, so there is no sound under water. WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many sounds under water. Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears. Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies. Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbrunogmail (DOT) > com > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 s! Oh well put. Thanks for putting that in to perscpective! Loni From: paulpjc@... <paulpjc@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 2:27 AM In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, loni326 (DOT) com writes: But as said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers. uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not. The word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause and effect. What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation) - " feel " - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the supermarket starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected by the waves that cuase me to " feel " ill - Its so hard to divorce this handy word from our ES experiences. Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 No, still refuses to accept the truth. A hundred studies have*scientifically* proven that nobody can *feel* EMF. There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes.nl www.milieuziektes.be www.hetbitje.nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 2:27 AM In a message dated 06/10/2009 18:47:12 GMT Daylight Time, loni326 (DOT) com writes: But as said I don't think I feel radiation I only feel the effects of the electromagnetic energy. I wish there was a way to convince the scientist without scientific proof. I have often said it they do not believe they just need to spend a week with me and they would become believers. uk replies - Yes I aggree that we probably cant feel the effects of Ionising radiation which will silently destroy us after initial or continual exposure, but the non ionising waves coming from mobiles etc are said to be biologically active to cause stimulation to nerves which are primary means of interpreting physical stimulus down to miniscule levels. The EHS senses these waves (or parts of the wave), many unaflicted people do not. The word feel may be too closely associated with the sense of touch, which is a largely tangible experience, and in the case of ES we are dealing with quite the opposite, the largely intangible. Nevertheless to say feel, is as good as any other attempt to describe the sensations, so the likes of Rapocholi are merely splitting hairs to divert from the real issues, cause and effect. What are we feeling when we are exposed to the suns rays (solar radiation) - " feel " - its only a wolly word used to sum up what we percieve to occur when a stimulus produces a reaction in us, saying we cant feel radiation is like saying you cant feel the suns rays or indeed hear microwaves, well apparently we can ? the debate on the word feel is a diversion from the truth, what is the answer when someone sucessfully knows when a mobile is transmitting behind them 8 out of 10 times, what then am I reacting to what component is cuasing me to feel the stimulus at that moment. It blows the argument out of the water, so perhaps when the man in the cue in the supermarket starts yapping away on his mobile I will politely say sorry I am effected by the waves that cuase me to " feel " ill - Its so hard to divorce this handy word from our ES experiences. Nevertheless whatever the electrical appliances/devices have in common ie the radiation it makes so many of us who can sense it, feel ill in an instant and we pay the price often tenfold thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I go near a cell antenna & I immediately react/feel the radiation being put forth. If I am under significant power lines I immediately react/feel the EF being emitted. When my skin burns/stings it is a reaction to it that I feel!!!!!! Loni From: paulpjc@... <paulpjc@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:11 AM In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time, charles@milieuziekt es.be writes: No, still refuses to accept the truth. A hundred studies have*scientifically A hundred studies have*scientifi There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body. uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling ? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not, obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Hi Diane! so the calcium & pantethine reduce your reaction? Loni From: charles@milieuziekt es.be <charles@milieuziek t es.be> Subject: Re: Metal objects groups (DOT) com Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2009, 3:48 AM Hello , I must contradict you here. It is just this statement that so may electrosensibles are vulnerable to dispute and discussion. According to Repacholi so many studies are done in order to prove that electrosensibles cannot *feel* elektrosmog. Especially the study of the german dr. Kaul, which is always used to debunk electrosensibles. All those studies proved, that the persons could not feel whether the elektrosmog source was on or off. Those *scientists* regard the test persons to react like *lamps* which is certainly not the case. Most scientists do not have the faintest idea what electrosensibility means; when it occurs, and with what sources and with what levels of exposure. Electrosensibles cannot feel radiation. Everybody should accept that. Something else is going on, and that is, that the body reacts to radiation. And that is quite different for each person in a peculiar way. And thereby also is playing the *timefactor* . The body may react instantly to f.i. a DECT phone, but hours later to GSM mobile phone mast. The reactions may occur in the head, but also in the chest, or stomach or the legs, depending on the person. The first stress organ is the liver, followed by the stomach. So a liver cleansing, like the method of Hulda , may give a relief. A scientist puts his head under water and says that he does not hear anything, so there is no sound under water. WE now know with sophisticated electronic equipment, that there are many sounds under water. Hearing is something that is not exclusively done with the ears. Our whole body can hear, especially frequencies. Especially low frequencies can penetrate deep inside our body. Greetings, Claessens member Verband Baubiologie www.milieuziektes. nl www.milieuziektes. be www.hetbitje. nl checked by Norton Re: Metal objects > > In a message dated 05/10/2009 22:38:54 GMT Daylight Time, wbrunogmail (DOT) > com > writes: > > Be aware that nobody can feel radiation, because we do not have an organ >> for it. > > > > UK replies - I find this statement, which I have heard many times > before a little shallow, the largest organ in the body is the SKIN, the > skin is > jam packed with all manner of receptors, there are also known to be at > least 50 other senses in the human body over and above the five we are > constantly aware of, the other senses get on with thier tasks without > entering the > concious mind. When a number of systems act together then a single organ > may not be requires at this level and so on > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I go near a cell antenna & I immediately react/feel the radiation being put forth. If I am under significant power lines I immediately react/feel the EF being emitted. When my skin burns/stings it is a reaction to it that I feel!!!!!! Loni From: paulpjc@... <paulpjc@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:11 AM In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time, charles@milieuziekt es.be writes: No, still refuses to accept the truth. A hundred studies have*scientifically A hundred studies have*scientifi There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body. uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling ? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not, obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I go near a cell antenna & I immediately react/feel the radiation being put forth. If I am under significant power lines I immediately react/feel the EF being emitted. When my skin burns/stings it is a reaction to it that I feel!!!!!! Loni From: paulpjc@... <paulpjc@...> Subject: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 10:11 AM In a message dated 07/10/2009 17:57:52 GMT Daylight Time, charles@milieuziekt es.be writes: No, still refuses to accept the truth. A hundred studies have*scientifically A hundred studies have*scientifi There is only an immediate or delayed reaction in the body. uk replies - so what you are getting at is that you feel the symptoms due to exposure, but is the symptoms are so immediate ie, in the presence of a provocative device such as certain mobiles how can you tell that the body is not sensing these in that instant, surely that is as good as feeling ? As for the delayed reaction this is a complex issue due to a myriad of cascading factors. Still the effect is there wether you feel it or not, obviously the 100 studies must be analysed in themselves, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 > Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you > feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I think ' point is that you don't really " feel " the EMF itself, but rather the EMF causes some sort of reaction in your body, and what you feel is the reaction (or the results of the reaction). So your symptoms are an indirect result of the EMF exposure. Perhaps a discussion best left for lawyers... :-) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I think that makes sense & we would all agree with that. Glad we got that cleared up! Ha Loni From: Marc <marc@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 1:44 PM > Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you > feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I think ' point is that you don't really " feel " the EMF itself, but rather the EMF causes some sort of reaction in your body, and what you feel is the reaction (or the results of the reaction). So your symptoms are an indirect result of the EMF exposure. Perhaps a discussion best left for lawyers... :-) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 LOL Marc, (re the lawyers). Yes, that is what I understood saying too. I am not sure whether science is advanced enough to definitively know this (I agree with what Jennie said), but I understand the concept. Maybe " feel " , as in the sense of touch, is the same--a reaction to another reaction! (Kind of kidding here.) Or maybe, as I have read, our burning skin is a type of neuropathy. I view it as an exercise in splitting hairs since I am not sure the science to understand this exists. Diane From: Marc <marc@...> Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Metal objects Date: Wednesday, October 7, 2009, 4:44 PM > Well these words are really one in the same. Because when you react, you > feel it in your body. So both words are correct. I think ' point is that you don't really " feel " the EMF itself, but rather the EMF causes some sort of reaction in your body, and what you feel is the reaction (or the results of the reaction). So your symptoms are an indirect result of the EMF exposure. Perhaps a discussion best left for lawyers... :-) Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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