The Warrior Diet

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 14:09:11 EDT

ChrisMasterjohn@... wrote:

>

> How can a ketogenic diet be low-fat??? lol! Wouldn't that be a

> nothing-o-genic diet? Actually, it seems it would probably be the exact

opposite of

> ketogenic-- glucogenic, if it were mostly protein, or if it were low-fat with

100 g

> carbs, but really sounds more like a starvation diet that doesn't supply

> adequate energy at all.

Yup! And in fairness to Duchaine, he didn't recommend anything like that.

>

> I guess *I* eat a ketogenic diet, if it means less than 100g carbs. I hope I

> don't get f___ed up in the head! 100g is a LOT of carbs, for someone who

> doesn't eat potatoes or grains. Most veggies with few exceptions you'd have

to

> eat 10-30 cups of them to get that much carbs.

No, Hofmekler was referring to competition bodybuilders getting screwed

up in the head, LOL

>

> I typically eat berries for carbs in the morning, 1/3-1/2 cup, and eat

> stiry-frys for carbs with lunch and dinner, which typically are a couple

cloves of

> garlic, an onion or two, 8 cherry tomatoes or so, and a zuchinni, or a bell

> pepper or two, etc.

>

> I don't know if lactic acid should count as a carb, but if so, that'd be my

> main carb, as I drink lots and lots of kefir.

Well I ferment my kefir 48 hours precisely to keep the carb count down

in kefir. The carbs are lower in kefir than in regular milk.

[Guest guest]

So, what's behind the magnesium and glutamine helping?

Dawn

> > So, for folks who are trying or plan to try the WD or some similar

> > regimen I reccomend that if you expect or find the first few days to

> > give you problems fasting, try using moderately large doses of

> > magnesium and L-glutamine, one of them or the combination helped me

> > enormously.

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

>

>

> Sounds like a winner. As I am glancing through the book I notice he

> has recommended supplements for people going through the adaptation

> phase of the diet. He mentions a number of things (including

> probiotics and enzymes) but he also mentions magnesium and glutamine.

>

>

email: lady_blaidd@...

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[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

> In a message dated 8/17/03 2:58:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> heidis@... writes:

>

> > Ah. Ok, not Penthouse. Same thing though ... male hormones surging!

>

> Ahem, while not a bodybuilder per se, I do heavy workouts and

concentrate on

> supposedly " testosterone " exercises, and I do *not* read pornos!

I must say, it's refreshing to find someone who admits to not reading

the articles. <grin>

[Guest guest]

-

That sounds like as good an endorsement of ketogenic eating as any others I

can think of! <g> Seriously, I think we should classify bodybuilding as

something quite distinct from strength training.

>Well it seems that ketogenic diets cannot sustain a competitive

>bodybuilder long term

-

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>, what do you consider a lot and a little fat? 60% of calories is pretty

>much my minimum for *any* meal, which seems like it should be enough.

I was talking more about quantities than percentages, though the percentage

issue is important. For example, a steak, even with butter, is going to be

lower in fat (percentage-wise) than a meal of eggs and my homemade sausage,

and I've found that the more protein-rich rare steak works better for me as

breakfast and the really fatty egg and sausage meal works better for me as

dinner.

>so I'm wondering whether not enough fat for you

>is an actual low amount of fat, or is, like for me, still twice as much

>fat as

>everyone else eats. lol.

Oh, no, the bare minimum for me is definitely at least twice as much

(percentage-wise) as it is for anyone else, and probably even more than

that. My girlfriend is positive I'm headed straight for an octuple

bypass. <g> I need to eat TREMENDOUS quantities of animal fat.

>But the magnesium/glutamine thing seemed to make an enormous difference,

Hmm, what form of magnesium do you use? And I'm blanking here, but isn't

l-glutamine an excitotoxin? I'll probably remember what I'm thinking about

tomorrow, but I accidentally ate some sugar today (I don't know why I

didn't taste it until I was nearly done with the meal) and I feel like

roasted rat crap.

-

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Idol " <Idol@...>

> That sounds like as good an endorsement of ketogenic eating as any

others I

> can think of! <g> Seriously, I think we should classify bodybuilding

as

> something quite distinct from strength training.

Most strength trainers (and probably most bodybuilders) do.

[Guest guest]

>When ketone bodies are produced at accelerated rates, they accumulate in the

bloodstream, causing a metabolic state called ketosis to develop.

Simultaneously, there is a decrease in glucose utilization and production. Along

with this, there is a decrease in the breakdown of protein to be used for

energy, referred to as ‘protein sparing.’

>Many individuals are drawn to ketogenic diets in an attempt to lose bodyfat

while sparing the loss of lean body mass.

So are they saying that ketone bodies are produced when you eat less than 100g

of carbs? Maybe that is true for athletes (they use up carbs fast) but it

doesn't seem to jibe with what I've heard for " normal folks " . Well, probably

SOME ketones are always produced but it seems that the " ketosis " state produces

a lot more.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:45:44 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> >When ketone bodies are produced at accelerated rates, they accumulate in the

bloodstream, causing a metabolic state called ketosis to develop.

Simultaneously, there is a decrease in glucose utilization and production. Along

with this, there is a decrease in the breakdown of protein to be used for

energy, referred to as ‘protein sparing.’

> >Many individuals are drawn to ketogenic diets in an attempt to lose bodyfat

while sparing the loss of lean body mass.

>

> So are they saying that ketone bodies are produced when you eat less than 100g

of carbs? Maybe that is true for athletes (they use up carbs fast) but it

doesn't seem to jibe with what I've heard for " normal folks " .

Yes, it is athletes under consideration here, not " normal folks. " It is pretty

clear in the title of his article. My original point to Christie was that

Hofmekler was talking in terms of bodybuilders and ketogenic diets, which is

different from " normal folks " and ketogenic diets.

Well, probably SOME ketones are always produced but it seems that the " ketosis "

state produces a lot more.

>

> -- Heidi

>

No doubt.

The Warrior Chef :-)

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:56:38 -0400

Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

>

> Oh, no, the bare minimum for me is definitely at least twice as much

> (percentage-wise) as it is for anyone else, and probably even more than

> that. My girlfriend is positive I'm headed straight for an octuple

> bypass. <g> I need to eat TREMENDOUS quantities of animal fat.

,

ly I don't know how you guys do it. I tried dating a woman for

over a year, but not being on the same page food wise was a bear - a big

bear. She tolerated me of course and I her but everytime I thought long

term I got a big pit in my stomach.

You can chastise me if you like for commenting on things that are none

of my business, but you guys must have a very special relationship. Food

doesn't seem that big of a deal, IMO, until you are eyeball to eyeball

daily with someone who sees it exactly opposite of you.

[Guest guest]

>Yes, it is athletes under consideration here, not " normal folks. " It is pretty

clear in the title of his article. My original point to Christie was that

Hofmekler was talking in terms of bodybuilders and ketogenic diets, which is

different from " normal folks " and ketogenic diets.

OK. I'm not going to worry if I'm " ketogenic " or not!

>

>

>

>The Warrior Chef :-)

Hmmm ... loincloth, cleaver, it could work ... some nice beads ...

Which reminds me, they did a special on Nefertiti today on Discover. Not a bad

reinactment, but one thing it brought to mind for me (and likely for anyone here

who watched it) was how THIN the king's face was. These folks would have major

dental problems! I guess the mummy they are thinking is Nefertiti didn't get her

wisdom teeth all the way in either ... sign of crowding? I missed that part.

They all seemed to be pretty dysfunctional too, not to mention religiously crazy

IMO. The king pretty much brought down the kingdom for the sake of his new

religion and the priests and people fought back -- lots of what we would call

delusions today (if you paint your picture on the wall you will live forever

....).

So much for the first " modern people " . They were a lot like us ... !

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:16:30 -0700

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:

>

> >Yes, it is athletes under consideration here, not " normal folks. " It is

pretty clear in the title of his article. My original point to Christie was that

Hofmekler was talking in terms of bodybuilders and ketogenic diets, which is

different from " normal folks " and ketogenic diets.

>

> OK. I'm not going to worry if I'm " ketogenic " or not!

Whew! I think I opened a can of worms with that one. Hopefully it is now laid to

rest :-)

>

> >

> >

> >

> >The Warrior Chef :-)

>

> Hmmm ... loincloth, cleaver, it could work ... some nice beads ...

How would one dress so that he could come across as both a warrior and

philosopher, a warrior and a romantic? LOL!

>

> Which reminds me, they did a special on Nefertiti today on Discover. Not a bad

reinactment, but one thing it brought to mind for me (and likely for anyone here

who watched it) was how THIN the king's face was. These folks would have major

dental problems! I guess the mummy they are thinking is Nefertiti didn't get her

wisdom teeth all the way in either ... sign of crowding? I missed that part.

A lot of their problems can be attributed to their very modern diet, but I also

think, IIRC, that a lot of the physical and emotional problems among the royals

was because of their interbreeding, in order to keep the line pure.

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

> They all seemed to be pretty dysfunctional too, not to mention

religiously crazy IMO. The king pretty much brought down the kingdom for

the sake of his new religion and the priests and people fought back --

lots of what we would call delusions today (if you paint your picture on

the wall you will live forever ...).

Is anyone else thinking of n Jaynes right about now?

[Guest guest]

I'm also wondering if you guys think about possibly getting married and/or

having kids one day and the person who will bear your children is on a

diet you see as very unhealthy for you unborn children? It isn't the same

for us women looking for men, the only thing we worry about is them not

being healthy and living a long life with us.

The health of the womb is something I would worry about as a man! =)

But, I bet it isn't something guys think about?

Thankfully my man believes along the same lines I do, though he has

little enthusiasm for it... except when he sees how much healthier I am.

He is lazy, lets me do the research and accepts things like this MSG filled

sauces and condiments are now in the trash! haha, well, he did wonder

where they went but didn't ask. =)

He's gone down 2 waist sizes, though he wasn't really fat in my book and

he is starting to get interested in the warrior diet as he wants to do

strength training again and he's a big guy who doesn't want to look like

his dad. He's 6'6 " with a huge frame.

Dawn

> ,

>

> ly I don't know how you guys do it. I tried dating a woman for

> over a year, but not being on the same page food wise was a bear - a

> big bear. She tolerated me of course and I her but everytime I thought

> long term I got a big pit in my stomach.

>

> You can chastise me if you like for commenting on things that are none

> of my business, but you guys must have a very special relationship.

> Food doesn't seem that big of a deal, IMO, until you are eyeball to

> eyeball daily with someone who sees it exactly opposite of you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Speaking of wisdom teeth, having room for them is great right? And they

shouldn't be removed if they don't need to be? My fiance is worried

about it?? He has overcrowding but a nice wide jaw. He eats way too

much sugar (or he used to).

I didn't even have any developing in xray? My mouth is tiny, though my

teeth are straight and not crowded. I have bad TMJ though! And

absolutely no room for wisdom teeth. I'm 25.

Thinking about nutrition sure explains a lot about the Egyptians that used

to be blamed solely on inbreeding. *grin*

Dawn

> Which reminds me, they did a special on Nefertiti today on Discover.

> Not a bad reinactment, but one thing it brought to mind for me (and

> likely for anyone here who watched it) was how THIN the king's face

> was. These folks would have major dental problems! I guess the mummy

> they are thinking is Nefertiti didn't get her wisdom teeth all the way

> in either ... sign of crowding? I missed that part.

>

> They all seemed to be pretty dysfunctional too, not to mention

> religiously crazy IMO. The king pretty much brought down the kingdom

> for the sake of his new religion and the priests and people fought

> back -- lots of what we would call delusions today (if you paint your

> picture on the wall you will live forever ...).

>

> So much for the first " modern people " . They were a lot like us ... !

>

> -- Heidi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/17/03 4:36:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> Hmm ... well, my memory is probably going. I really didn't get into

> the details of it much but it seemed like there was some good

> stuff with vegies etc. I likely would have ignored the bit

> about egg yolks ...

Yep, he loves veggies, but he hates egg yolks, bacon, and beef (he hates

grass-fed beef less but doesn't like it, and at least he hates the pufa in

canola

oil) so a big sunday brunch might be:

an egg white ommelette fried in two teaspoons olive oil

a quarter cup of fruit

one muffin made with part flour part soy protein powder

if you really like bacon you can add some fakin bakin ;-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/17/03 4:36:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> It might be casual for him, but most editors don't leave it in the text!

> I'd bet anything that the article in Women's Day does NOT have the f's.

> My general impression is that guys use a lot more " prohibited words "

> when in male company -- and in fact catch themselves sometimes,

> glancing at me -- " oh, sorry, there's a woman present ... " .

>

> Personally I don't CARE but it is an interesting phenomenon. In Korea

> I'm told there is a whole different syntax for " males talking to males "

> and " females talking to females " .

I'm sure there's age, gender, culture, socio-economic, etc, issues here that

make it impossible to make broad sweeping statements, but my general

experience has been that girl's from the same socio-economic-cultural slice

don't use

f__ any more or less and guy's don't moderate their f___ usage... but the big

differences is when there's no girls around guys refer to girl's as " bitches "

(as a general word, not for girl's they don't like) and generally shift to

talking about girls in terms of sexuality, disparaging comments about, oh while

we're using it, girls they wouldn't f___, lol, etc.

That's my experience crossing two different cultures. Growing up in a small

town with lots of alcoholics, mostly renters, etc, I think people might have

used f___ a little more in that socio-economic slice, and girl/guy thing didn't

seem to matter, in college, same thing, but guys were more likely to engage

in the second phenomenon above.

So we have some faith in some people I should make it clear that not *all*

guys refer to girls as " bitches " when they're not in the room.

> I liked the romanticism part. THAT I can get into -- like Xena. Actually my

> idea

> of the French Riviera is the same thing ... romance! But the " hard body "

> part

> is just not motivating -- I DO like to work out, and I even like martial

> arts,

> but my take on martial arts is more " Crouching Tiger " than Bruce Lee.

> And really, once you get into the idea of " romance " you have to face the

> idea that " romance " means really different things in the male and female

> contexts!

Ah, now that you make me think of " chick flicks " you know when I was reading

the interview it really made me think of the movie Kate and Leopold. Have you

seen it? I don't think Leopold did the Warrior Diet or looked like Bruce Lee

but he had that whole honor/chivalry thing going on. And if he were back I'm

sure he'd join WAPF! ;-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/17/03 8:27:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

blaidd2@... writes:

>

> So, what's behind the magnesium and glutamine helping?

Dawn

As I said in a previous post where I first mentioned it (same day) I believe

the magnesium to be helping stabilize blood sugar and the glutamine to help

hormonally, probably by increasing HGH levels. That's why I took them anyway.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/17/03 10:20:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

bberg@... writes:

> I must say, it's refreshing to find someone who admits to not reading

> the articles. <grin>

lol! I almost put " read " in quotation marks... if I did get pornos it

wouldn't be for the articles, since there are articles in plenty other places,

but I

do not buy/subscribe to/borrow/steal/look at pornos.

chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/03 2:59:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

blaidd2@... writes:

> The health of the womb is something I would worry about as a man! =)

> But, I bet it isn't something guys think about?

It sure is. Me, anyway. Though I don't think I would get that far with

anyone eating a completely different diet, as I'd want to be able to eat

together,

etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/03 3:04:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

blaidd2@... writes:

> Speaking of wisdom teeth, having room for them is great right? And they

> shouldn't be removed if they don't need to be? My fiance is worried

> about it?? He has overcrowding but a nice wide jaw. He eats way too

> much sugar (or he used to).

According to my wonderful, attentive, caring, fantastic, WAPF-friendly,

holistic dentist who I'm always delighted to speak to (though she could be wrong

about stuff, lol) wisdom teeth are fine if you don't have susceptibility to

periodontitis, but if you do have susceptibility to periodontitis they probably

need to be taken out (and if they are they need to be taken out *properly*), as

the wisdom teeth in most people don't come in all that great, and the

arrangement is very conducive to harboring bacteria etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/03 10:29:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

> I'd love to see it ... I think I heard about it if it is the one I'm

> thinking of.

It's got Meg in it, iirc, damn now I dont' remember. Pretty sure meg

ryan. Oh I don't know, anyway, it's about this British royal guy who invented

the elevator that gets brought forward in time.

> As for guys and gals and language -- I think you are right about " class " --

> I grew up in central LA and I just can't use the language I did growing up!

> Some of it also depends on age. As a teen it was kind of cool just to

> get away with saying words your Mom wouldn't have approved of (and

> really, as ways of rebelling go, it was pretty harmless). But I've always

> been shocked and amazed when guys I've known actually open up

> and say what they did when they were kids or when the gals aren't

> there!

Hm? Stuff they said or *did*? What would they *do* when gals aren't

around???

(actually, some stuff I've heard other guys " did " when the gals weren't

around comes to mind but eh, not going to talk about that...)

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/18/03 11:12:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

blaidd2@... writes:

> But I wanted to know *why* magnesium helps to stabilize blood sugar and

> *why* glutamine increases HGH. I guess I have some research to do! =)

Guess so, cause I have no idea!

>

> I take magnesium in two different pills, one of those coral calcium things

> to replace the minerals not in my filtered water, and one in a calcium,

> magnesium, zinc form for muscle cramps etc. I know I am deficient in

> zinc and have been told by my endocrinologist many times... ok scolded

> for not doing it, to take plenty of zinc supplements.

Zinc, for what it's worth, is waaaaay more bioavailable from beef, so I'd

just eat red meat at every meal. Well, I know zinc is about 1/4 available from

cereal, so assuming supplements can't be much better.

I have Hashimotos

>

> and have those lovely small lines on my fingers which is supposed to

> indicate a lack of zinc?? He always looks though I never say a word

> about it. I hate swallowing pills. However, I do have a bit of a

> hypoglycemic reaction still, though it is probably 1/100th of what it used

> to

> be and I'm curious about taking these two supplements to help fix that...

> and why it would work.

>

> Anyone have a type of Zinc that is more efficient to take? I thought about

> using those cold-eze daily but I think they are are full of other junk! =)

Red meat ;-) Tastes better too.

Oh, actually, oysters are WAY higher than red meat in zinc, but red meat in

turn is WAY higher than anything else. In fact, an oyster has a lot more zinc

than a zinc pill too, I think.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>I'm also wondering if you guys think about possibly getting married and/or

>having kids one day and the person who will bear your children is on a

>diet you see as very unhealthy for you unborn children? It isn't the same

>for us women looking for men, the only thing we worry about is them not

>being healthy and living a long life with us.

There is info that a bad diet causes bad sperm! Guys with health problems tend

to father kids with problems, and now that they have proof that the moms diet

affects the GENES of her kid (i.e. it affects the egg) there is no reason to

believe

the same thing doesn't happen to sperm!

So yeah, I'd worry about it. Too late now, of course, the kids are already here!

However in my ideal world both parents would be tested for food intolerance,

particularly gluten, as that REALLY messes up kids in utero but no one worries

about it. (That and plenty of B vites, esp. folic acid, which are the ones shown

to affect genes, and minerals).

-- Heidi

>

[Guest guest]

>----- Original Message -----

>From: " Heidi Schuppenhauer " <heidis@...>

>> They all seemed to be pretty dysfunctional too, not to mention

>religiously crazy IMO. The king pretty much brought down the kingdom for

>the sake of his new religion and the priests and people fought back --

>lots of what we would call delusions today (if you paint your picture on

>the wall you will live forever ...).

>

>Is anyone else thinking of n Jaynes right about now?

Thanks for bringing up the name! I'd read that but didn't remember

where. From what I've read of history, the " hallucination " part is

just historically accurate. I'm not sure you have to get into brain

evolution to explain it though. Even the Oracle at Delphi, it turns out,

was sitting in a chamber that had a natural gas leak that is, in

fact, hallucinogenic. Schizophrenia seems to be very much

wheat-related (schizophrenics taken off gluten often get better,

though it is very difficult to do!). And grains in the old world

commonly got infected with ergot, from whence comes LSD.

Also they had some odd habits, like using " sugar of lead " to

sweeten their wine (lead acetate).

My guess is that humans started eating wheat/barley/spelt

etc. in the Middle East, and for the next few thousand years,

the ones that were more susceptible to it died off and went

crazy, and started getting Aspberger's and Autism which

enabled them to make some really cool architecture (delusional,

but cool).

On Jaynes, for the curious:

==========

http://www.bizcharts.com/stoa_del_sol/conscious/conscious3.html

Pursuing the bicameral mind, Jaynes focuses on the corpus callosum, the major

inter-connector between the brain's hemispheres. In human brains the corpus

callosum can be likened to a small bridge, a band of transverse fibers, only

slightly more than one-eighth of an inch in diameter. This bridge " collects from

most of the temporal lobe cortex but particularly the middle gyrus of the

temporal lobe in Wernicke's area. " And it was this bridge that served as the

means by which the " gods " who dwelled in one hemisphere of the human brain were

able to give " directions " to the other hemisphere. It is like thinking of the

" two hemispheres of the brain almost as two individuals. " Hence the bicameral

mind! [ibid, p. 117]

Archaic humans were ordered and moved by the gods through both auditory

hallucinations and visual hallucinations. The gods mainly " talked " to them--but

sometimes " appeared, " such as Athene appeared to Achilles. And " when visual

hallucinations occur with voices, they are merely shining light or cloudy fog,

as Thetis came to Achilles or Yahwey to Moses. " [ibid, p. 93]

Jaynes believes in the mentality of the early Mycenean that volition, planning

and initiative were literally organized with no consciousness whatsoever. Rather

such volition was " told " to the individual-- " sometimes with the visual aura of a

familiar friend or authority figure or 'god,' or sometimes as a voice alone. "

[ibid, p. 75]

[Guest guest]

>Ah, now that you make me think of " chick flicks " you know when I was reading

>the interview it really made me think of the movie Kate and Leopold. Have you

>seen it? I don't think Leopold did the Warrior Diet or looked like Bruce Lee

>but he had that whole honor/chivalry thing going on. And if he were back I'm

>sure he'd join WAPF! ;-)

>

>Chris

I'd love to see it ... I think I heard about it if it is the one I'm thinking

of.

As for guys and gals and language -- I think you are right about " class " --

I grew up in central LA and I just can't use the language I did growing up!

Some of it also depends on age. As a teen it was kind of cool just to

get away with saying words your Mom wouldn't have approved of (and

really, as ways of rebelling go, it was pretty harmless). But I've always

been shocked and amazed when guys I've known actually open up

and say what they did when they were kids or when the gals aren't

there!

-- Heidi