Re: news media and drug companies

[Guest guest]

>The Big Drug Firms control The News Media, the University Research, the AMA

>and the Medical Schools.

That's a bit of an oversimplification. I work for " the news media, "

or at least one news organization. We are privately held and do not

depend on the drug industry for funding; they are not our clients.

But it is true that drug firms have tremendous influence on doctors

through their heavy marketing programs and on consumers through

television and magazine advertising and on research universities

because they devote lots of money to research. And the AMA is a

monopoly, and that's not good for any industry.

>All they want is your money. They want you to take their $5 a pop pills for

>the rest of your life; and they have Billions to pay off the News Media,

>the University Research, the AMA and the Medical Schools to make sure that

>you have no other recourse, unless you get on the net and investigate. The

>same Guy is CEO of the News agency Reuters and the Drug Co. Pfizer.

Wanting to make money is not a sin. Pretty much all of us, except for

those taking vows of poverty, like to make money and wish we had more

of it. It's called the will to live and survive and thrive, and all

living things are born with it.

And public companies have an obligation to make money for their

shareholders and to be able to pay salaries to their employees and to

pay their suppliers etc. Trying to make a profit is not a bad thing.

What's bad is when they get the protection of government to be

monopolies (such as the AMA) or when political contributions sway

politicians to enact laws and regulations that protect monopolies

(U.S. agricultural policy is shameful, as is that of the EU and Japan

and others). This is a huge topic that goes beyond the scope of this

list but I am personally collecting research on these kinds of

questions.

Also, it's not true that Reuters and Pfizer have the same CEO.

The Reuters Group Plc chairman is Sir Hogg; the

CEO is Henry Glocer. The company is struggling financially.

The Pfizer Inc. chairman and CEO is Henry McKinnell Jr. He goes by

Hank. Pfizer is doing quite well.

I'm no fan of pharmaceutical companies, but their sin is not in

trying to make (or succeeding in making) money. The problem is we the

public are not skeptical enough consumers, in many instances, and and

we let our politicians enshrine the AMA and drug and insurance

companies as the experts on health, when what they're really experts

in is disease, in my opinion. But there are many lifesaving and

useful drugs out there, and I think on this list we all agree that we

have to take charge of our own health.

Cheers,

Jeanmarie

[Guest guest]

> What's bad is when they get the protection of government to be

> monopolies (such as the AMA) or when political contributions sway

> politicians to enact laws and regulations that protect monopolies

> (U.S. agricultural policy is shameful, as is that of the EU and

Japan

> and others). This is a huge topic that goes beyond the scope of

this

> list but I am personally collecting research on these kinds of

> questions.

I wonder if you are collecting stories on experiences in Asia for a

more international perspective. A few years ago the Philippine

Department of Health (doh.gov.ph) identified several herbal folk

remedies and in a sense legitimized them as alternatives to western

medicine. The idea was to use them for health care in cases when

medicine presecribed by the multinational pharmeceutical companies

became prohibitive.

A couple of the herbs were ampalaya (bitter melon) and banaba which

were traditionally used for treating diabetes. Studies in India and

the Philippines had already proven that ampalaya was effective in

reducing blood sugar levels.

Taking the cue from the health department, non traditional health

providers started packaging ampalaya and banaba supplements in the

form of capsules and teas. When diabetics took these, they found that

they were effective - and cheaper then glucophage, etc.

Diabetics could also consume the herbs and vegetables directly -

Ampalaya is a common vegetable here served in salads and cooked with

beef dishes.

The result was a downward trend in the sale of diabetic medicines

from the multinational companies.

What happened next was quite puzzling - despite their earlier

endorsement, the Philippine health department apparently reversed

itself, stating that diabetics should not cease taking their

prescribed medicine and that ampalaya effective was unproven.

One of the oddest statements was while the studies showed that

ampalaya was effective in reducing blood sugar levels for a three

month average (the implication was a hemoglobin a1c test) it had n

effect on fasting blood sugar. Eh?? Isn't the three month ave more

important nowadays?

The highly probable speculation at the time was the multinational

drug companies were threatened by decreasing sales of their products

while more Filipinos looked toward herbal medicine - and leaned on

the Philippine government to get their way.

I'm sure you can find the actual news stories documenting this period

on Google.

[Guest guest]

>I wonder if you are collecting stories on experiences in Asia for a

>more international perspective. A few years ago the Philippine

>Department of Health (doh.gov.ph) identified several herbal folk

>remedies and in a sense legitimized them as alternatives to western

>medicine. The idea was to use them for health care in cases when

>medicine presecribed by the multinational pharmeceutical companies

>became prohibitive.

Thanks for the info. This isn't the current focus of my reading, but

I am interested in herbs and natural remedies generally. Thanks,

Jeanmarie

>A couple of the herbs were ampalaya (bitter melon) and banaba which

>were traditionally used for treating diabetes. Studies in India and

>the Philippines had already proven that ampalaya was effective in

>reducing blood sugar levels.

>

>Taking the cue from the health department, non traditional health

>providers started packaging ampalaya and banaba supplements in the

>form of capsules and teas. When diabetics took these, they found that

>they were effective - and cheaper then glucophage, etc.

>

>Diabetics could also consume the herbs and vegetables directly -

>Ampalaya is a common vegetable here served in salads and cooked with

>beef dishes.

>

>The result was a downward trend in the sale of diabetic medicines

>from the multinational companies.

>

>What happened next was quite puzzling - despite their earlier

>endorsement, the Philippine health department apparently reversed

>itself, stating that diabetics should not cease taking their

>prescribed medicine and that ampalaya effective was unproven.

>

>One of the oddest statements was while the studies showed that

>ampalaya was effective in reducing blood sugar levels for a three

>month average (the implication was a hemoglobin a1c test) it had n

>effect on fasting blood sugar. Eh?? Isn't the three month ave more

>important nowadays?

>

>The highly probable speculation at the time was the multinational

>drug companies were threatened by decreasing sales of their products

>while more Filipinos looked toward herbal medicine - and leaned on

>the Philippine government to get their way.

>

>I'm sure you can find the actual news stories documenting this period

>on Google.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >I wonder if you are > Thanks for the info. This isn't the current

focus of my reading, but

> I am interested in herbs and natural remedies generally

I dug up the old news articles. These are from the Philippine Daily

Inquirer last year - it really looks like the multinational drug

companies panicked and played dirty to get one type of herbal

medicine discredited:

Conspiracy alleged in new

classification of ampalaya

Posted: 1:03 AM (Manila Time) | Sept. 08, 2003

By Carlito Pablo

Inquirer News Service

" A HIDEOUS conspiracy " is how the chairman of the House sub-committee

on health standards sees the downgrading of ampalaya (bitter

gourd/melon) from its previous classification as a " scientifically

validated " alternative cure for diabetes.

South Cotabato Congressman Arthur Pingoy Jr. wants Congress to probe

the Department of Health's recent order to categorize ampalaya

instead as a " folklorically validated " medicinal plant.

Pingoy, a medical doctor, said multinational drug companies and " some

high-ranking national officials " could be behind the order.

Ampalaya was among 10 herbs declared as scientifically proven

alternative medicines in the early 1990s.

The reclassification order was " untimely, precipitate, reckless and

highly suspect, " Pingoy insisted.

" This is a serious blow to the current efforts of the Philippine

Institute of Traditional and Alternative HealthCare, (which)

undertakes the study and promotion of indigenous products, a clear

betrayal of national interests, " he said.

Citing information from the medical community, Pingoy said

multinational drug companies had been " greatly alarmed " by the wide

acceptance of capsules and other preparations using ampalaya as main

ingredient.

But these companies, represented by the Pharmaceutical and HealthCare

Association of the Philippines, denied they had lobbied against the

ampalaya-based medicines.

The reclassification should be rectified, otherwise other herbal

products that Filipinos have found to be effective and safe could

suffer the same fate, Pingoy said.

He threatened to block the approval of the budget that the Department

of Health is seeking next year.

----

Health workers bitter

over ampalaya's fate

Posted: 2:59 AM (Manila Time) | Aug. 31, 2003

By Nini Valera

Inquirer News Service

DIONISIO Narvaez will no longer be drinking his ampalaya (bitter

gourd) tea, which he took as a food supplement after he was diagnosed

as a Type 2 diabetic.

Narvaez, 56, said his doctor had told him that Department of Health

Secretary Dayrit had issued a warning against ampalaya-based

products and how these had not been proven to be effective against

diabetes mellitus.

Ironically, the same doctor had introduced Narvaez to ampalaya tea

after the patient complained to his doctor about the high cost of

primary medicines for his disease.

" I felt better since I took ampalaya tea, " Narvaez said in

Filipino. " My blood sugar level became normal and has not risen in

the months that I have been drinking the tea. Now, I have to take a

full course of diabetes medication, which I can barely afford. "

Dayrit's Circular 196-A series of 2003, which was issued on June

23, " strongly advised all concerned to cease, desist and discontinue

any endorsement of ampalaya as an alternative treatment of diabetes

mellitus. "

It was also a complete turnaround from the existing Circular 168-A

series of 1995, which listed ampalaya as among the ten herbs that had

been scientifically validated and which the DoH had been promoting as

adjuncts to treatments of various diseases.

The benefits of the ten herbs -- which include garlic, lagundi or

five-leaved chaste tree (vitex naeundo), sambong or blumea camphor,

and guava among other herbs and plants -- are in medical textbooks

and have become subjects of scientific studies.

Herb-based preparations have also gained market acceptance,

generating sales of almost 800 million pesos in 2002.

Dayrit's reversal of a national policy also left the government

health community bewildered.

Dr. Guia Abad, municipal health officer of Sta. Cruz town, Laguna and

president of the Association of Municipal Health Officers of the

Philippines, said she could not understand why Dayrit did a turnabout

in the issue of ampalaya.

" As doctors, we are not irresponsible, " she said. " When we use any

ampalaya preparation, we tell the patients that this is only a

supplement, not a cure. "

She explained that diabetes, which afflicts millions of Filipinos,

mostly men, is an issue of life.

" I come from a family of diabetics, " she said. " I have impaired

glucose tolerance. Then I started drinking ampalaya tea, whose brand

is Charantia, and I found it to be good in bringing down my blood

sugar. Why should I wait to become a diabetic? "

Abad said she used the ampalaya tea for eight months before she

advised her patients to use it as a food supplement. She has since

advised her brother, a diabetic, to take ampalaya tea regularly.

She also cites the case of one of her patients in the municipal

health clinic whose condition improved after taking ampalaya tea.

" I saw his sugar level had gone down gradually and had been

maintained, " said Abad. " He feels good, he no longer needs as much

primary medications. A diabetes patient drinks as many as five

different pills a day. So I enjoined them to continue drinking the

ampalaya tea. "

But she warned that diabetes patients must not stop their primary

medications even if their sugar level has normalized.

" What we're trying to tell the patient is this (ampalaya tea) is not

medicine, but it will help his system burn the sugar in his body, "

Abad said.

Dayrit's circular is not only hurting municipal health workers, who

have turned to herb-based preparations to lower their patients' cost

for medicines. It has also virtually stunted the growth of the local

herb business, which was on the throes of going global.

" The problem here, I think, is there are drug companies which have

realized that there were patients who used to take six tablets or two

kinds of tablets a day for their diabetes, " Abad said.

But with the advent of ampalaya teas and pills, the patient can

reduce the primary medication to two pills a day, she said.

" Why hit ampalaya? I am in a situation where almost 65 percent of the

population can barely have their altanghap (breakfast, lunch and

dinner). How can I give my patients a prescription that I know they

cannot afford to buy? "

[Guest guest]

I do eat ampalaya as side dish. I also eat the young leaves as vegetable. The

ampalaya does lower blood sugar. I don't care what those health officials say,

i suspect them to have been under the influence of big foreign drug

companies....

But better still is the Banaba. It is good for diabetes and also lowers

cholesterol and triglyceride. I was just reading it last night. The leaves and

the fruit (looks like an open nut) are just boiled in water and drank. I shall

embark on this soon. Hopefully I will be free from the very expensive

Lipitor!!!! ooooppppssss those drug companies must be snooping. But there is no

way they can stop us because here in the Philippines Banaba trees are very

common. They are used as landscape trees.

Re: news media and drug companies

>I wonder if you are collecting stories on experiences in Asia for a

>more international perspective. A few years ago the Philippine

>Department of Health (doh.gov.ph) identified several herbal folk

>remedies and in a sense legitimized them as alternatives to western

>medicine. The idea was to use them for health care in cases when

>medicine presecribed by the multinational pharmeceutical companies

>became prohibitive.

Thanks for the info. This isn't the current focus of my reading, but

I am interested in herbs and natural remedies generally. Thanks,

Jeanmarie

>A couple of the herbs were ampalaya (bitter melon) and banaba which

>were traditionally used for treating diabetes. Studies in India and

>the Philippines had already proven that ampalaya was effective in

>reducing blood sugar levels.

>

>Taking the cue from the health department, non traditional health

>providers started packaging ampalaya and banaba supplements in the

>form of capsules and teas. When diabetics took these, they found that

>they were effective - and cheaper then glucophage, etc.

>

>Diabetics could also consume the herbs and vegetables directly -

>Ampalaya is a common vegetable here served in salads and cooked with

>beef dishes.

>

>The result was a downward trend in the sale of diabetic medicines

>from the multinational companies.

>

>What happened next was quite puzzling - despite their earlier

>endorsement, the Philippine health department apparently reversed

>itself, stating that diabetics should not cease taking their

>prescribed medicine and that ampalaya effective was unproven.

>

>One of the oddest statements was while the studies showed that

>ampalaya was effective in reducing blood sugar levels for a three

>month average (the implication was a hemoglobin a1c test) it had n

>effect on fasting blood sugar. Eh?? Isn't the three month ave more

>important nowadays?

>

>The highly probable speculation at the time was the multinational

>drug companies were threatened by decreasing sales of their products

>while more Filipinos looked toward herbal medicine - and leaned on

>the Philippine government to get their way.

>

>I'm sure you can find the actual news stories documenting this period

>on Google.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But there is no way they can stop us because here in the Philippines

Banaba trees are very common. They are used as landscape trees.

>

Hmmmm.

I wonder if they can be grown in the States. I don't know how well

they'd do in my neck of the woods (Las Vegas, Nevada. Winters, pretty

cold - summers, a few degrees cooler than hell or Phoenix, summer

humidity averaging about 10%) but in a landscaping environment, who

knows? Anybody have information?

We do grow palm trees here, but I don't know about coconut palms.

Irene

[Guest guest]

It just might grow in Florida.

Re: news media and drug companies

But there is no way they can stop us because here in the Philippines

Banaba trees are very common. They are used as landscape trees.

>

Hmmmm.

I wonder if they can be grown in the States. I don't know how well

they'd do in my neck of the woods (Las Vegas, Nevada. Winters, pretty

cold - summers, a few degrees cooler than hell or Phoenix, summer

humidity averaging about 10%) but in a landscaping environment, who

knows? Anybody have information?

We do grow palm trees here, but I don't know about coconut palms.

Irene