Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Annette, thank you again for your informative post. It's npw npt at all difficult to understand why the TT group is kept under such close surveillance! And also not difficult to understand why he had (as he claims) so many hostile mails. regards, Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 > > , > > I was careful with my initial post. I did not want to say more than > necessary. I believe Tropical Traditions and Coconutoil-online have good > virgin coconut oils. There are only slight distinguishing differences. As > more people find out about coconut oil we all prosper. That is good. In my > initial post I just wanted to explain something that many people have asked > or wondered about. > .... > , you are a US resident who lives in California. Have you ever been > to the Philippines? left the Philippines over a year ago. Has he > ever been back? I would like to complement Annette on her calm factual answer to . I thought ' post was a bit nasty and uninformed, especially the enzyme part. I would like to add a bit about my experience with TT. In Dr Fife's books (and I think on their web site) TT lists their address as West Bend, Wi. As I live just outside West Bend, I went to see where they were. The address is just a " mail box " type drop. According to the owner there, some " member of the family " comes to pick up the mail and orders they get there. I sent them an email to find out if I ordered from them, could I pick the order up and save us both the hassel of shipping. The curt answer I got was " we don't have a public store " . That wasn't the question. Their product may be the greatest in the world, but if they don't start addressing their poor to awful " bedside manner " when dealing with customers and potential customers (BB posters) they will continue to lose to companies that treat the people better. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 > left the Philippines over a year ago. Has he > ever been back? Even the Philippine Coconut Authority knows why he > left. > Even other coconut producers know the story. Annette -- I appreciate your posts. I'm learning a lot! Why DID leave the Philippines? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2003 Report Share Posted November 28, 2003 Hi all, I have spoken with Shilhavy about Annette's claims, and here is his response, and the official response of Tropical Traditions: " Annette is wrong. At no time has Tropical Traditions ever brought coconut oil into the market with a moisture content anywhere near 1.0%, including when Wilderness Family Naturals used to ship our oil. She does not have any documents to back this up, as we keep all certificate of analysis on file. We will be publishing this information on our website soon. We also still have a sample sitting on a shelf in the Philippines in constant 80- 90 degree weather that was produced during the time they shipped our oil, and it is still good with a very low FFA content after more than 2 years. It is not rancid, and it has not broken down. Annette is also not accurate in saying that people came to me in the Philippines and observed how we made our oil and reported back to her. It never happened. We encourage Wilderness Family Naturals to stop spreading these false rumors about Tropical Traditions. As to enzymes, we also request that Wilderness Family Naturals make a public statement, in this forum or on their website, as to which enzymes they claim are only contained in the coconut oils they sell and nobody else's. We would be happy to verify these claims in a laboratory analysis. To date, they have never named these enzymes which she compares to the enzymes of " Carrots, apples and potatoes. " Sincerely, Wales > > Hello, this is Annette at Wilderness Family Naturals. > > > > The " India " virgin coconut oil we have, is purchased from the same > supplier > > that coconutoil-online purchases from. We package in glass for > the pint, > > quart and half gallon sizes. And this is packaged at an FDA > approved > > facility. Warming the plastic water bottles which coconut-oil- > online uses, > > so that you can pour them, concerns me. The PETE containers do > contain > > substances that are not good and can leach into the oil, > especially if they > > are heated. They have said they do this because the bottles are so > > inexpensive, it keeps costs lower. I have just felt that it is > very > > important to not introduce toxins and glass is very safe. Most > informed > > people have come to realize that you have to be careful with > plastics. > > and Gayle, are very, very nice people, however, and even > with the > > packaging, they have a good business and many customers. > > > > The " catch in your throat " that you notice with the TT oil is from > free > > fatty acids (FFA) and acids of fermentation. The higher the > moisture > > content in the oil the quicker the breakdown of the few > unsaturated fatty > > acid chains present in the oil. When the fatty acids break down, > you get > > free fatty acids in the oil. Tropical Traditions oil has a 1% > moisture > > content, two of our virgin coconut oils have a 0.1% moisture > content, and > > our South Pacific oil has a 0.2% moisture content. Other virgin > coconut > > oils have the 0.1% moisture content. Many use heat to achieve > this, > > however, which also affects the quality of the oil. > > > > Even though extra virgin olive oil has set a standard of 1.0% or > less for > > their oil, when coconut oil approaches that value it is very > irritating to > > the throat. In addition to the FFA's, the method TT uses to > separate off > > the oil from the fermented water is not clean enough, allowing > some of the > > acids of fermentation to be in the oil. On top of this their oil > is heated > > to 180 degrees or more for 20 minutes. Heat contributes to the > FFAs. This > > is why you notice it more with their oil than the centrifuged oil. > The > > centrifuged oil does not see any heat nor acids of fermentation > and has a > > very low percent moisture content. The enzymes and other > nutrients are > > usually considered to be destroyed between 117 degrees and 170 > degrees, > > depending on who you talk to. > > > > We have sampled lots and lots of virgin coconut oils. We sought > them out a > > year ago when we were deciding whose oil to carry. Since then we > have been > > contacted by many new manufacturers and by companies wanting us to > carry > > their oil. I have discovered that I can actually tell the level > of free > > fatty acids (abbreviated FFA) in the oils when I taste them. > There is a > > relationship between the FFA and/or the acids of fermentation, and > that > > acidic taste that is detectable by some of our customers. Some > customers do > > not taste it, but many can. > > > > The Philippine oil we have here is made with the same method as > the TT oil, > > but it is made in a facility where they have special equipment for > > frementating and separating the oil. They have been able to make > the oil > > without using any heat. Therefore the level of free fatty acids > is as low > > as the centrifuged oil and there are no acids of fermentation. In > all > > honesty I can not tell a difference in taste between the two > oils. These > > are the only two oils I can say this about. The only way I can > tell which > > oil is which is by texture. The Philippine oil is creamier and > smoother. > > Sometimes it tastes a little sweeter. In all honesty, through our > tasting > > and testing of all the oils available, we have decided the > centrifuged > > virgin coconut oil and the Philippine oils we carry are the " best > of the > > best " . I am not saying that because we sell them, but rather we > sell them > > because of what I am saying. They both have a one tenth of one > percent > > moisture content. > > > > When we sold the TT brand we had a 2-5% return rate. We have a 0% > return > > rate with these two oils (the centrifuged and the traditional > Philippine). > > On occasion we have someone who does not like the South Pacific > oil. > > Tropical Traditions has the largest amount of sales for virgin > coconut oil > > of any company in the US. They are very good at marketing. Many > people are > > happy with the TT oil. It is a good oil. Some of the people who > work there > > are very nice. I would urge every one to try different types of > virgin > > coconut oil and decide for themselves. I have tried to be honest. > > Hopefully I have not offended anyone. > > > > Annette > > > > > > > > Taste test between TT and > > coconutoil-online.com > > > > > > I just did a taste test between VCO from TT and VCO (Coconut Oil > > Supreme) from coconutoil_online and WOW. > > > > I am definitely changing my brand of preference to VCO Supreme! I > > wasn't sure if I could tell the difference, but I could, rather > > easily. Gees. There is a big difference! (No wonder coconut > online > > does the almost free sample offer.) VCO from coconutoilonline > has a > > much cleaner taste than TT. TT oil almost tastes like it's going > bad, > > against the oil supreme. I just got the bottle of TT shipped > only a > > few weeks ago, so I'm sure it's not going bad, but it leaves this > > after taste that is rather unpleasant to me. BTW, I don't get > this > > unpleasant after taste when I take the TT oil in warm water > (which I > > have been doing everyday). Only when I eat it off the spoon the > > difference becomes clear. VCO Supreme from coconutoil online has > a > > clean taste like butter, with no bad after taste at all. > > > > I just tried the left over bottle of Virgin Oil De Coco- Creme and > > this oil tastes like TT too. > > > > Someone mentioned WFN uses the same supplier for VCO from India > as > > coconutoil online. I wonder if WFN oil from India is as good as > the > > VCO Supreme from online? I wonder if WFN's 1QT jars come in glass > > jars? One thing I liked about TT was I could order in 1 QT jars > (I > > have a good use for the empty bottles), but coconutonilne's come > in > > plastic bottles (like water bottles) which is not only > inconvenient > > (since I cannot scoop the oil out of it with a spoon if the oil > is > > hard) but I have no use for. Even with the inconvenience, I am > > switching to VCO Supreme for the taste. I really like the taste > much > > better. > > > > Anybody did any taste test between WFN and coconutoil online > (both > > East Indian kinds)? > > > > Tomo > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 I agree. I am not interested in knowing which company is better either. I am, however, interested in knowing what VCO is all about (including the manufacturing processes) and which product is ultimately better for me. I believe informed decisions are always better than shooting in the dark, so to speak. I have gone through enough products now to know that not all coconut oils on the market are created equal and Annette gave me some in-depth information into the world of coconut oil. Annette has been giving such invaluable information on this group list and I am very grateful for this. She has been giving us a run- down on the different methods of processing and what problems manufacturers face. This is the kind of information I was hoping to get by reading Healing Miracles of Coconut Oil Book by Bruce Fife (which I did not get in my opinion. His book was way too general). After reading her post, I realized why so many of the coconut oil I had tasted kind of off to me, some tasted even slightly rancid. I kept on eating some of them thinking " I must be imagining things. They are supposed to have such a long shelf life. " I also really like the way Annette conducts herself - quite professional and I feel whatever she is saying is truth, at least in her eyes. Also, it appears she does a lot of research on products and she tries to sell products she feels benefit us most and that taste good also :-) On the other hand, all the posts I have seen so far from TT are way too emotionally charged for me to take what they say seriously. When you are not only a distributor but also a manufacturer, I guess there is much to protect, and this includes the censorship of their list. I think they are going about it the wrong way, but that is just my opinion. I was a TT VCO user. I mean I would have kept on using it if I didn't visit curezone.com coconut forum - someone put a thread titled " Best Flavor (in my opinion) " mentioning VCO Supreme from coconutoil- online.com. Once I tasted this VCO, I knew that was my choice of VCO from that moment on. If TT changes their producing method, and if the taste improves, and if it is cheaper than the VCO I am getting, it's quite possible I will change my brand again. Tomo > > > What? I was simply referring to the post Annette made about emails and letters that she has from which just denied all existence of. But whatever. I am done with this thread. I am here to learn about CO not to listen to others run competitors product down. As for I would imagine he did not speak for himself for the same reason he never answered any inquiries about his own list. All I know is that and therefore have no credibility with me at all. I am interested in learning about what all CO does and other people's experience with the oil, NOT which company is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 -from your modderator This is a coconut information group Please refrain from putting down individuals.This group Was not formed to call attention to another groups or individuals failings but to provide a forum to pass information about coconut oil and other interesting health related subjects to our members. IN NC -- In Coconut Oil , " Sara Mandal-Joy " <sarajoy@m...> wrote: > > . Now can we please move on from this subject? If you love > > and are posting on his group then there is no need to post his > praises > > here. > > > > I agree with moving on... I've been listening to this go on and on. The > original information about differences in manufacture I found interesting > and helpful. The attacks on that have been following that, not by the > original poster, I will add, these i find offensive, and finally couldn't > shut up anymore. I wasn't praising nor excusing, simply trying to give my > perspective, which seems to be what everyone else has been doing, bit it has > felt very out of balance. I was trying to address that. And would do it > again, and probably will, if the topic is not dropped. Sara Joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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