Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Nina, I did not have thyroid problems before i started having soya milk. I took it for 2 years thinking it would help with menopause. I don't think Bruce Fife is saying you can't have fermented soya products. My question to you and Bonnie was about lecithin. Bonnie said don't have it because it's soya. Soya i'm told blocks iodine to the thyroid. Does fermented products do this? Is lecithin considered a fermented product? These are questions i need answering from someone. I still have soy sauce occassionally in stirfries. SAlly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 > Hi Nina Quote from 'The Coconut oil Miracle' Soybeans are particularly bad because of the goitrogens (antithyroid chemicals) they contain. He says that all polyunsaturated oils are bad for the thyroid but soya particularly. That's one of the references to it but i've seen loads of stuff in articles on websites and other books. It's just i can't remember exactly where offhand. I'm really worried about my bone health because of high calcium in blood etc.I can't afford to go down the wrong path. There is so many mixed messages from experts and lay people it is so hard to know if you are doing the right thing. Sally > Nina, > I did not have thyroid problems before i started having soya milk. I took it for 2 years thinking it would help with menopause. > I don't think Bruce Fife is saying you can't have fermented soya products. My question to you and Bonnie was about lecithin. Bonnie said don't have it because it's soya. Soya i'm told blocks iodine to the thyroid. Does fermented products do this? Is lecithin considered a fermented product? These are questions i need answering from someone. I still have soy sauce occassionally in stirfries. > > SAlly. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Sally, the goitrogens are neutralized by the traditional fermentation methods used to produce natto, tempeh, miso and shoyu. There are also goitrogens in raw green cruciferous vegetables (broccoli family) that are neutralized by cooking. After cooking, however, these are among the world's healthiest foods. Nina Re: soya > Hi Nina Quote from 'The Coconut oil Miracle' Soybeans are particularly bad because of the goitrogens (antithyroid chemicals) they contain. He says that all polyunsaturated oils are bad for the thyroid but soya particularly. That's one of the references to it but i've seen loads of stuff in articles on websites and other books. It's just i can't remember exactly where offhand. I'm really worried about my bone health because of high calcium in blood etc.I can't afford to go down the wrong path. There is so many mixed messages from experts and lay people it is so hard to know if you are doing the right thing. Sally > Nina, > I did not have thyroid problems before i started having soya milk. I took it for 2 years thinking it would help with menopause. > I don't think Bruce Fife is saying you can't have fermented soya products. My question to you and Bonnie was about lecithin. Bonnie said don't have it because it's soya. Soya i'm told blocks iodine to the thyroid. Does fermented products do this? Is lecithin considered a fermented product? These are questions i need answering from someone. I still have soy sauce occassionally in stirfries. > > SAlly. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Sally, personally I wouldn't touch soy milk with a 10-foot pole. I have had it on a few occasions and I never feel well from it. If you want to persuade me not to eat lecithin because it is a soy product, I would be very open to that. For me it is a moot point, however, because I don't usually eat individual non-food things like lecithin, unless I am convinced I have no alternative. As I said in my other e-mail, the traditional fermentation neutralizes the goitrogenic aspect of soy. Don't ferment it yourself - just buy a traditional preparation - tempeh, natto, shoyu and so forth. Use a good quality shoyu or tamari, not " soy sauce " , which sounds American to me. I order Ohsawa Nama Shoyu over the internet. It gives me a big, big boost. Miso also. Nina soya Nina, I did not have thyroid problems before i started having soya milk. I took it for 2 years thinking it would help with menopause. I don't think Bruce Fife is saying you can't have fermented soya products. My question to you and Bonnie was about lecithin. Bonnie said don't have it because it's soya. Soya i'm told blocks iodine to the thyroid. Does fermented products do this? Is lecithin considered a fermented product? These are questions i need answering from someone. I still have soy sauce occassionally in stirfries. SAlly. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 > Hi Nina No i don't touch it now either. It's nice to know i can eat fermented soy products if i choose to. Why does it make such a difference to your bone health? I'm sure a lot of people don't eat soya and don't suffer bone loss. I don't know if i would go out of my way to eat the fermented products unless i'm convinced it's worth it. Miso soup is highly regarded by Dr Gillian Mckeith. I don't like salty foods much and i think this is very salty. Anyway i will try to learn more about the benefits of fermented soya and make up my own mind. Thanks Sally > Sally, personally I wouldn't touch soy milk with a 10-foot pole. I have had > it on a few occasions and I never feel well from it. > > If you want to persuade me not to eat lecithin because it is a soy product, > I would be very open to that. For me it is a moot point, however, because I > don't usually eat individual non-food things like lecithin, unless I am > convinced I have no alternative. As I said in my other e-mail, the > traditional fermentation neutralizes the goitrogenic aspect of soy. Don't > ferment it yourself - just buy a traditional preparation - tempeh, natto, > shoyu and so forth. Use a good quality shoyu or tamari, not " soy sauce " , > which sounds American to me. I order Ohsawa Nama Shoyu over the internet. > It gives me a big, big boost. Miso also. > > Nina > > soya > > > Nina, > I did not have thyroid problems before i started having soya milk. I took > it for 2 years thinking it would help with menopause. > I don't think Bruce Fife is saying you can't have fermented soya products. > My question to you and Bonnie was about lecithin. Bonnie said don't have it > because it's soya. Soya i'm told blocks iodine to the thyroid. Does > fermented products do this? Is lecithin considered a fermented product? > These are questions i need answering from someone. I still have soy sauce > occassionally in stirfries. > > SAlly. > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I'm not sure, maybe its own unique configuration of phytoestrogens. In the case of natto, it may be the nattokinase. I personally prefer to conceptualize it in terms of the whole food rather than its components. If your bones are fine, then you can do without it, but a lot of us do struggle with bone loss and we like to know everything we can that can help us. Miso was way too strong and salty for me even in small quantities. Now I eat it in the afternoon, not the morning, a small amount on a teaspoon together with a full teaspoon of VCO. It works! Nina Re: soya > Hi Nina No i don't touch it now either. It's nice to know i can eat fermented soy products if i choose to. Why does it make such a difference to your bone health? I'm sure a lot of people don't eat soya and don't suffer bone loss. I don't know if i would go out of my way to eat the fermented products unless i'm convinced it's worth it. Miso soup is highly regarded by Dr Gillian Mckeith. I don't like salty foods much and i think this is very salty. Anyway i will try to learn more about the benefits of fermented soya and make up my own mind. Thanks Sally -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 > > > Hi Nina > No i don't touch it now either. It's nice to know i can eat > fermented soy products if i choose to. > Why does it make such a difference to your bone health? I'm sure a > lot of people don't eat soya and don't suffer bone loss. I don't > know if i would go out of my way to eat the fermented products > unless i'm convinced it's worth it. Miso soup is highly regarded by > Dr Gillian Mckeith. I don't like salty foods much and i think this > is very salty. Anyway i will try to learn more about the benefits > of fermented soya and make up my own mind. > Thanks > Sally > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/2006 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Gosh, I'd really take the anti-soy warnings with a HUGE pinch of salt. I'm married into a Chinese family and live in Asia, and despite what some anti-soy people will tell you, here soy (especially as tofu and soymilk and a neat in-between called to-fu-fwa) is still eaten, unfermented, DAILY and has been for at least 1800 years. Osteopoprosis among Chinese has been increasing in the last 30 years: the same time they have started to eat more meat and LESS tofu and veggies. (Tofu is a fabulous source of calcium, as are those veggies.) Fertility is certainly not a problem: until modernization, it was routine for parents to have 6-12 children. Men even took multiple wives: that doesn't sound effeminate or de-masculinized to me! (They probably could have benefitted from some de-masculinization. ) And goiters and hypothyroidism does not seem to have been a problem among the highest soy-eaters, the Chinese. Sure, the strange soy concoctions you often see on Western shelves look unnatural and some may be nutritionally unsound, as perhaps eating a diet largely comprised OF soy may be. But there is a very long history of eating tofu, soymilk, and soy meats (as well as the fermented products) daily, with very little history of harm resulting. Rather, it definitely appears that these foods, in combination with veggies, fruit, rice, and the occasional egg or bit of meat, have kept Asians alive and healthy, and may be preferable to the high-meat diet they're beginning to consume. The anti-soy warnings seem to me even less tenuous than the anti-coconut warnings (which we all know are nonsense). This long history of safe use is the same kind of evidence that won me over to coconut. My two half-American, half-Asian cents. Ann in Malaysia ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to (http://) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 I haven't read the earlier posts on this thread, but there may be a difference in the soy grown in America. Most of the soy in the US is genetically modified. The University of Hawaii did a study on asian men and learned that tofu could be related to the rise in alzheimer associated problems in asian men living in Hawaii. Of course, they didn't mention where the soy came from. > > Gosh, I'd really take the anti-soy warnings with a > HUGE pinch of salt. I'm married into a Chinese family > and live in Asia, and despite what some anti-soy > people will tell you, here soy (especially as tofu and > soymilk and a neat in-between called to-fu-fwa) is > still eaten, unfermented, DAILY and has been for at > least 1800 years. Osteopoprosis among Chinese has been > increasing in the last 30 years: the same time they > have started to eat more meat and LESS tofu and > veggies. (Tofu is a fabulous source of calcium, as are > those veggies.) Fertility is certainly not a problem: > until modernization, it was routine for parents to > have 6-12 children. Men even took multiple wives: that > doesn't sound effeminate or de-masculinized to me! > (They probably could have benefitted from some > de-masculinization. ) And goiters and > hypothyroidism does not seem to have been a problem > among the highest soy-eaters, the Chinese. > > Sure, the strange soy concoctions you often see on > Western shelves look unnatural and some may be > nutritionally unsound, as perhaps eating a diet > largely comprised OF soy may be. But there is a very > long history of eating tofu, soymilk, and soy meats > (as well as the fermented products) daily, with very > little history of harm resulting. Rather, it > definitely appears that these foods, in combination > with veggies, fruit, rice, and the occasional egg or > bit of meat, have kept Asians alive and healthy, and > may be preferable to the high-meat diet they're > beginning to consume. > > The anti-soy warnings seem to me even less tenuous > than the anti-coconut warnings (which we all know are > nonsense). This long history of safe use is the same > kind of evidence that won me over to coconut. > > My two half-American, half-Asian cents. > > Ann in Malaysia > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to > (http://) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 > Hi, Ann Maybe it was just a coincidence i got thyroid problems after using soya milk for 2 years. I was going through the menopause so maybe it just unbalanced everything. I did used to prefer soya milk on my porridge to other milks. I find the fact there is not a problem with thyroid there very revealing. We have been told by Bruce that in asia they have never eaten much soya only the poor because there was nothing else, and in general only ate the fermented products that had been detoxified. You say different. I am really confused now. America tried to bring gm foods to Britain. They were going to grow gm crops here. People in Britain and i think europe resisted vehmently. Apparently now its all contaminated anyway, so there is other reasons we should stick to the fermented stuff. Sally > Gosh, I'd really take the anti-soy warnings with a > HUGE pinch of salt. I'm married into a Chinese family > and live in Asia, and despite what some anti-soy > people will tell you, here soy (especially as tofu and > soymilk and a neat in-between called to-fu-fwa) is > still eaten, unfermented, DAILY and has been for at > least 1800 years. Osteopoprosis among Chinese has been > increasing in the last 30 years: the same time they > have started to eat more meat and LESS tofu and > veggies. (Tofu is a fabulous source of calcium, as are > those veggies.) Fertility is certainly not a problem: > until modernization, it was routine for parents to > have 6-12 children. Men even took multiple wives: that > doesn't sound effeminate or de-masculinized to me! > (They probably could have benefitted from some > de-masculinization. ) And goiters and > hypothyroidism does not seem to have been a problem > among the highest soy-eaters, the Chinese. > > Sure, the strange soy concoctions you often see on > Western shelves look unnatural and some may be > nutritionally unsound, as perhaps eating a diet > largely comprised OF soy may be. But there is a very > long history of eating tofu, soymilk, and soy meats > (as well as the fermented products) daily, with very > little history of harm resulting. Rather, it > definitely appears that these foods, in combination > with veggies, fruit, rice, and the occasional egg or > bit of meat, have kept Asians alive and healthy, and > may be preferable to the high-meat diet they're > beginning to consume. > > The anti-soy warnings seem to me even less tenuous > than the anti-coconut warnings (which we all know are > nonsense). This long history of safe use is the same > kind of evidence that won me over to coconut. > > My two half-American, half-Asian cents. > > Ann in Malaysia > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ _______________ > We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to > (http://) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Ann, thank you so much for this. Nina -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.17/505 - Release Date: 10/27/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Osiyo Sally! To absolve any questions got to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecithin and read about lecithin. It is made with hexane a very toxic solvent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I think some of the confusion over soy's historic use in Asia stems from the huge culinary diversity among Asian peoples. Indians and South- Eastern Asians, such as Malays, Indonesians, etc, don't eat very much in the way of soy products at all, except for the fermented stuff (and Indians hardly eat that). The Japanese consume a middling amount--a couple to a few servings a week--of non-fermented soy, and Thais a bit less than middling. Chinese, in China and wherever they emigrated to in Asia/worldwide, consume it daily: just about all the Chinese I know (a lot of them, from Malaysia, Singapore and China) drink soymilk and/or eat tofu or to-fu-fwa once daily or more. This is lessening now that they are starting to drink milk and eat more meat (and as I mentioned before, osteoporosis and other diseases that accompany affuence are increasing dramatically: not sure why). But it's not a " poverty food " any more than cheese is in the West: emperors have long eaten it, and I've personally had it cooked all sorts of fancy ways. No decent Chinese restaurant fails to have it on their menu. And devout (vegetarian) Buddhists of many ethnicities have eaten far more soy than the average Chinese bloke, again, for centuries. This simply provides evidence of continuous use among one (huge) population, the Chinese, plus all those devout Buddhists. If you believe that what humans can eat safely depends on their ethnicity (/religion? ), I guess that could be a warning for you. But that theory makes no sense to me. After all, half the foods eaten here in Asia are originally from the Americas: peppers, chilis, tomatoes, potatoes, corn, etc etc. ...And I think long continuous use does not necessarily mean a substance is OK for you: consider alcohol. But I did want to make the point that soy, including unfermented, is absolutely eaten regularly here by the masses and has been for millennia, and definitely seems to have been healthful on the whole for them. Other arguments against soy should still be checked out on their own merit, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 >Thanks Ann for all the info. However, uncooked broccoli although healthy is not good for thyroid conditions so there is still that issue. I would consider having the fermented stuff now if i can find something i like, especially if it is good for bone health. I'm going out soon to avoid all the tricker treaters. It goes against what i believe giving out sweets/candy, i don't think they would take kindly to be given fruit. Although my 6ft 14 year old still goes tricker treating and then has all the horrible sweets to eat. I've told him he's too old LOL. What can you do? LOL. Sally > I think some of the confusion over soy's historic use in Asia stems > from the huge culinary diversity among Asian peoples. Indians and South- > Eastern Asians, such as Malays, Indonesians, etc, don't eat very much > in the way of soy products at all, except for the fermented stuff (and > Indians hardly eat that). The Japanese consume a middling amount-- a > couple to a few servings a week--of non-fermented soy, and Thais a bit > less than middling. Chinese, in China and wherever they emigrated to in > Asia/worldwide, consume it daily: just about all the Chinese I know (a > lot of them, from Malaysia, Singapore and China) drink soymilk and/or > eat tofu or to-fu-fwa once daily or more. This is lessening now that > they are starting to drink milk and eat more meat (and as I mentioned > before, osteoporosis and other diseases that accompany affuence are > increasing dramatically: not sure why). But it's not a " poverty food " > any more than cheese is in the West: emperors have long eaten it, and > I've personally had it cooked all sorts of fancy ways. No decent > Chinese restaurant fails to have it on their menu. And devout > (vegetarian) Buddhists of many ethnicities have eaten far more soy than > the average Chinese bloke, again, for centuries. > > This simply provides evidence of continuous use among one (huge) > population, the Chinese, plus all those devout Buddhists. If you > believe that what humans can eat safely depends on their ethnicity > (/religion? ), I guess that could be a warning for you. But that > theory makes no sense to me. After all, half the foods eaten here in > Asia are originally from the Americas: peppers, chilis, tomatoes, > potatoes, corn, etc etc. ...And I think long continuous use does not > necessarily mean a substance is OK for you: consider alcohol. But I > did want to make the point that soy, including unfermented, is > absolutely eaten regularly here by the masses and has been for > millennia, and definitely seems to have been healthful on the whole for > them. Other arguments against soy should still be checked out on their > own merit, methinks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 I am forwarding this to the forum from Barrie as it may well be of interest to you all. Luv - Sheila Dear Sheila , in trying improve my poor NDT conversion , have been checking on food labels and was surprised to see nearly all bread and associated products contain soya flour, found 2 at the Co-op ,none at Lidl . Asked at Tesco in store bakery , head baker found quite a few soya free items in his list . Although my diet doesnt allow much bread , the change to soya free over 2 weeks has shown a noticable improvement . You all may have been aware of this , but am feeding back in case . Regards Barrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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