RE: vegetarianism and libido

[Guest guest]

why should a low sex drive be in any way a deficiency? A low sex drive is simply

that; it's us humans who attach values to it, ie " good " or " bad " , according to

the culture we grow up in. It's possible to be perfectly healthy, and have a

healthy diet with no deficencies, and still have a low sex drive. One person

might welcome that, another person might now. Low sex drive is not necessarily

a measure for health or a symptom of a deficiency.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/3/04 2:16:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

smaas@... writes:

> why should a low sex drive be in any way a deficiency?

Hi Sharon,

I didn't refer to a deficiency of sex drive-- I referred to a deficiency of

vitamins.

From a cultural and spiritual perspective, the value of a sex drive could be

variant. However, the human body, like the body of all other organisms, is

designed to reproduce. From a biological perspective, the sex drive is a

reflection of good health.

Since the desire for sex is a metaphysical function of the physical body,

positing the existence of a spirit would indicate that the influence of the

physical on the metaphysical could be secondarily influenced by the spiritual.

If

the spirit has demands other than sex, this could diminish the sex drive in an

otherwise healthy body.

But eating a diet deficient in a wide gamut of essential nutrients is

achieving the result with a very different method, making that result the

reflection

of a weak body, and not a strong spirit.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

> Thanks for your intersting views.

And thanks for yours.

> However, a vegetarian diet is very often very high on most nutrients - with

the

> exception of perhaps protein.

No, it isn't. It is almost invariably deficient in all the nutrients I

previous listed. For example:

vitamin A -- vitamin A simply does not exist in plant foods. It isn't

" essential " in the sense that most people have a limited capacity to convert

carotenes to vitamin A. However, the conversion rate is small, and is now

recognized

to be even smaller than believed, so that if you eat plant sources of

" vitamin A " you are receiving about 1/12 the vitamin A listed IF you are

healthy.

Women have lower conversion rates than men (and higher needs), and then there

are a great variety of health problems that interfere with conversion, such as

thyroid issues, I think diabetes, liver problems, and others. One could get

some vitamin A from grass-fed butter on a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet, but one can

generally not get optimal vitamin A intake without occasional organ meat

consumption, such as eating liver once a week and/or supplementing with cod

liver

oil.

EPA/DHA/AA -- There are no plant sources of these essential fatty acids.

Lacto-ovo vegetarians can get some AA from butterfat and egg yolks, and a tiny

amount of the n-3s from the same. Again, most people have very low conversion

rates of the plant oil pufa's, which are precursors to these fatty acids, and

many have dismal rates, certain ancestral backgrounds provide for effectively

no conversion at all. Also, the plant oils provide a high total pufa to

end-chain pufa ratio, maximizing the cost for little benefit. Furthermore, the

enzymes that make the conversions are zinc dependent, and vegetarian diets are

basically inherently deficient in zinc, so vegetarians will convert these fatty

acids at an even more dismal rate than the typical person. (an algae-derived

DHA supplement is marketed for those who insist on vegetarianism, which can

mediate this problem, as it is much more easily converted to EPA)

Zinc-- while there is zinc in plant foods, there is simply no competition

between plant and animal foods here. Ginger has slightly more than beef, but

would you eat a quarter pound patty of ginger? Cereal grains have some, much

less than beef, but studies show the zinc in beef to be four times more

absorbable. By far and away, the best source is oysters, so one could get

sufficient

zinc without eating mammal meat, but not as a vegetarian. A vegetarian diet

provides enough zinc to stay alive, but not much more than that. Furthermore,

vegetarians tend to eat a lot of whole grains and beans, which, if not properly

prepared, are high in phytate, which forms an insoluble salt with zinc, and

will prevent its absorption and utilization.

Saturated fat -- vegetarian diets tend to be much too low in saturated fat,

unless they are supplemented with coconut oil, and/or generous amounts of

butter, if lacto-ovo-vegetarian.

Vegetarian diets also do not contain B12 at *all* (though some sea products

contain B12 analogs that are falsely listed as B12 and competitively inhibit

B12 absorption), except with generous amounts of dairy and egg products if

lacto-ovo vegetarian, but certainly cannot compete with a meat-based diet or

seafood-based diet (particularly shellfish) for B12, and B vitamins in general.

>Certainly, when I stopped eating meat my entire diet became far healthier.

I began

> to eat more vegetables and fresh saldas, fruit etc. Most vegetarians do.

> So vitamin deficiency can't be the answer.

Of course it can-- particularly because vegetables, fruit, and fresh salads

do not contain significant amounts of zinc, certain B vitamins, saturated fat,

or protein, and do not contain *any* vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin B12, EPA,

DHA, or AA.

> As far as sex drive is concerned, i think a healthy balance is necessary.

> In the west, I get the feeling that people are actually totally under its

> sway, which is certainly not healthy! ANd when the spiritual drive becomes

> stronger than the sexual, In many individuals - especially women after they

have

> had children - it seems to recede; this might be simply nature's method of

> birth control - if only husbands would listen! ;-)

Or it could be a symptom of vitamin A deficiency, since the SAD as well as

vegetarian diets are deficient in vitamin A, and since pregnancy uses up vitamin

A stores very rapidly. People are more likely to have babies with birth

defects once the more children they've had-- and that would be an awfully cruel

form of birth control for nature to offer. No doubt inadequate diet and

improper spacing are involved.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi Sharon,

I'm glad you are in good health, and hope it continues.

> I didn't quite get what you meant with " an awfully cruel method of birth

> control " .

>

I wasn't referring to your comment about waning sexual interest, but to my

comment about increased risk of birth defects. My point is that pregnancy and

nursing seriously tax the nutrient supply of the mother, and the increased risk

of birth defects and the waning sexual interest could both be attributed to

this. Since lack of libido could be attributed to a variety of factors, some

of which could be healthy, and others not, such as my suggestion-- nutrient

depletion, I offered another example of negatives associated with nutrient

depletion that happen concurrently.

I agree that sex is not the only important thing in life, and that it is

natural for people to experience more and less sexual desire associated with

age,

various cycles, etc.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for your intersting views. However, a vegetarian diet is very often very

high on most nutrients - with the exception of perhaps protein. Certainly, when

I stopped eating meat my entire diet became far healthier. I began to eat more

vegetables and fresh saldas, fruit etc. Most vegetarians do. So vitamin

deficiency can't be the answer.

As far as sex drive is concerned, i think a healthy balance is necessary. In the

west, I get the feeling that people are actually totally under its sway, which

is certainly not healthy! ANd when the spiritual drive becomes stronger than the

sexual, In many individuals - especially women after they have had children - it

seems to recede; this might be simply nature's method of birth control - if

only husbands would listen! ;-)

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Well, wou ar e pbviosuly very knowledgeable about nutrition; I can't

contest you. All I can say is, i do not think about al this at all. I never

think about what nutrients I am getting, I have never done. I haev never tried

to supplement anything, I listen to my body, and that tells me exactly what to

do. About 30 years ago it told me to stop eating meat, and I did. I never felt

better. I am helthier by far than most meat eaters I know (we went through this

before on this board so I apologize to the others). I never get ionfections -

and that was even before I satred using coocnut oil. IO never have allergies,

and neither do my children. I had two pregnancies without a single complication,

and very easy births, and gave my children breast milk over a year. I felt

strong and healthy and as i said, I am never ill. That's just me, of course; but

I can [redict that I wil live wel into mhy 90's if mothing untowards happens. My

mother is also vegetarian and she is 85 and as busy and active as ever. She

lives by herself and is on the go from morning to night. On a vegetarian diet. I

might add that we are not vegans. I simpl;yu can't describe the fealimngof

perfect health I found after I stopped eating meat. That's why i believe that

there is more to it than measurable nutrients.

I didn't quite get what you meant with " an awfully cruel method of birth

control " .

Let's just say that sexual needs differ from person to person and there are

times when that energy is better directed elsewhere, which can be perfectly

healthy and natural. Personally, I think that we can evolove away from sexual

needs and that is a very good development, once we have reproduced. There are

so many more dimensions to our humanity - sexuality is not the be all and end

all of life, and not the only and best source of fulfillment.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

Yes, he knows a lot. I hope you find a solution in his reply.

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I have to disagree with you regarding the lack of vitamin B12 in sea

vegetables, and being an analog. The only sea vegetable that does have

" useable " B12 is aphanizomenon flos aquae. You are correct though - all

the others are actually an analog of B12 which prohibits B12 absorption.

In fact AFA has all the nutrients you say are lacking in a vegetarian

diet. I've been eating it for 8 or 9 years and blood tests show no lack

of any nutrients in my diet.

Carol

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Organic, wholefood, supplements provide nutrients essential for the

health of people, pets and plants. <http://www.bluegreensolutions.com>

http://www.bluegreensolutions.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

Vegetarian diets also do not contain B12 at *all* (though some sea

products

contain B12 analogs that are falsely listed as B12 and competitively

inhibit

B12 absorption), except with generous amounts of dairy and egg products

if

lacto-ovo vegetarian, but certainly cannot compete with a meat-based

diet or

seafood-based diet (particularly shellfish) for B12, and B vitamins in

general.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry - that was supposed to be a private article sent to - you

may delete it from the files if you wish.

Sorry, Carol

[Guest guest]

Re: vegetarianism and libido

> Personally, I think that we can evolove away from sexual needs

> and that is a very good development, once we have reproduced.

> There are so many more dimensions to our humanity -

> sexuality is not the be all and end all of life, and not the only

> and best source of fulfillment.

By no means is sexuality the only source of human

fulfillment. What the *best* source of fulfillment might be is

something which going to vary from person to person within any

population, as well as over time for many individuals.

However, reproduction is FAR from the only purpose in human

sexuality. I never had kids. I never wanted kids. And sex has

always been important to me when I was in the appropriate

relationship. Sexual sharing binds partners in ways which is very

difficult, if not impossible without sexual sharing. As we age, all

the drives have a tendency to go down. It seems to me that years of

poor nutrition, lack of exercise, and lifestyle habits with do damage

to the body account for more of the drying up of sex drive than the

aging of our bodies.

I know couples who stay together out of habit, and for

economic necessity. They seem not to like one another very much.

They are like cranky siblings, more than loving couples. And I know

couples who are still passionately in love with one another decades

after they started having sex together. The main difference seems to

be which couples still enjoy sexual contact and which ones do not.

I have also noticed that old people who have very little sexual

libido tend to get cranky at young people a lot and want the

government to pass more repressive laws.

So it seems to me if people had a more balanced diet instead

of the SAD diet which most Americans eat, old people would have more

fun with each other and be less apt to want to more repressive laws

passed.

One can most certainly give up sex. I have been celibate

for large chunks of my adult life because I had nobody I was

interested in. It seemed to me to be Far better I be celibate than

to be driven into an unsuitable relationship just for sex.

In my youth I was a hippie -- I am probably still a hippie,

but now I do not hang-out with just people similar to myself. Back

then I knew a number of people who became strict vegetarians. Most

were in their 20s. Many (but not all) were not able to maintain

otherwise healthy relationships. Some became very in-drawn &

chronically depressed. Others seemed to substitute metaphysical

interests for relationship -- which is always a valid choice if one

really wants to specialize on metaphysics rather than on

relationship. No reason everyone needs to be in a relationship.

But it seemed to me that diet had a lot to do with sexual interest,

or lack thereof. I knew plenty of people into yoga and meditation

who ate meat & never lost interest in sex or their partner. It also

seemed to me that without sexual interest, many people lost reason to

be in relationship, other than economic necessity. Not all, by any

means. But many.

It seems to there is a big difference between survival and

prospering. Let me use vitamin C just as an example because I

studied vitamin C a lot. One can survive on minimal amounts of

vitamin C and not get scurvy. But, because us humans lack the

ability to make our own vitamin C, those of us who take in many

grams of C a day are apt to have healthier lives as we grow older

than those who just eat an orange or sip some rose hip tea once in a

while.

When a society has endemic deficiencies (American SAD diet,

vegetarianism) & /or endemic toxic overload (ancient Rome lead

pollution, American water pollution), it is only natural to expect

philosophies will arise which extol the symptoms of the problem as a

spiritual advanced state. Or, in the case of America's obsession on

libido drugs, to attempt to ameliorate the symptoms of the

deficiencies without really addressing the causes. Neither seem to

me to be real useful on a societal level. Of course, within any

population, there is a wide variety of personal choice involved. It

is good to have a very varied human ecology.

Alobar

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 19:12:55 +0100

" Sharon " <smaas@...> wrote:

My mother is also vegetarian and she is 85 and as busy and active as ever. She

lives by herself and is on the go from morning to night. On a vegetarian diet. I

might add that we are not vegans. I simpl;yu can't describe the fealimngof

perfect health I found after I stopped eating meat. That's why i believe that

there is more to it than measurable nutrients.

######

Hi Sharon,

This is what I see as one of the problems with the popular discussion of

vegetarianism. From a nutritional perspective, unless one is vegan, one is

receiving nutrients from some kind of animal product, *and this makes a HUGE

difference.*

Being a non *meat* eater is one thing, but defending vegetarianism while

consuming non-meat *animal* products can be very confusing/misleading. Vegans

are often lacking numerous nutrients in their diets. But one who does not eat

meat yet consumes other animal products (eggs, dairy, insects, various forms of

seafood) can be quite healthy and getting a full complement of nutrients.

There are only two kinds of diets in the world, one that includes animal

products (but maybe not meat) and one that does not. Those in the former

category will always as a whole do better than those in the latter category. It

seems to me by your own description you fall into the former category and thus

it *is* a case of measurable nutrients.

Perhaps one day our popular language will more acurately reflect what we eat

when we give up meat but not other animal products.

War, the God That Failed

http://tinyurl.com/2npch

" They told just the same,

That just because a tyrant has the might

By force of arms to murder men downright

And burn down house and home and leave all flat

They call the man a captain, just for that.

But since an outlaw with his little band

Cannot bring half such mischief on the land

Or be the cause of so much harm and grief,

He only earns the title of a thief. "

--Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale

[Guest guest]

I know couples who stay together out of habit, and for

economic necessity. They seem not to like one another very much.

They are like cranky siblings, more than loving couples. And I know

couples who are still passionately in love with one another decades

after they started having sex together. The main difference seems to

be which couples still enjoy sexual contact and which ones do not.

I have also noticed that old people who have very little sexual

libido tend to get cranky at young people a lot and want the

government to pass more repressive laws.

Hi Alobar,

There is a third kind of couple.

As two lovers grow more and more intimate, they become so much a part if one

another, their love is so potent and vibrant, sex is not even necessary. I have

personally experienced such relationships myself, in India - people who

positively radiate with love and are not having sex, perhaos have never had sex.

Believe me, there is nothing on earth to compare with such a relationship! That

for me is the very climax of love - a unity that is beyond the body, where sex

is superfluous. But I know it is for the very, very few. But just to know that

it IS possible is inspiring.

There, the sex drive has not " dried up " it has gone on to its fruition, to its

logical conclusion; there, old people do not need to have fun with each other

because they are already perfectly united. It's hard to talk about this without

beingable to show what it's all about! I've only seen this with one couple in

the West, to my knowledge, so rare it is. So perhaps it was wrong to even bring

it up here.

I also made the mistake of using the words " low sex drive " in my initial posts,

which was wrong; I really meant that the very powerful sex drive has been

otherwise diverted, perhaps into creativity or spirituality. Sex is only one

direction that enormous energy can take; unfortunately, it is the only direction

that many people know about or strive for. When it goes in another direction,

there is less and less sexual need, which is actually not the same as a low sex

drive. I think it's sad that in the West, not needing much sex is autmatically

taken as a deficiency, a lack, a problem, ths is not true at all. Then all kinds

of " causes " are hypothesises - nutrient deficiency, repression, etc, which might

not necessarily be the case. I believe more thinking outside the box is

necessary!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

I know or have known many vegetarians, but I know many more (including

myself) ex-vegetarians.

Reasons for returning to meat-eating vary from person to person-- in my case,

my mental and physical health quickly deteriorated while vegetarian. In

another, the person turned yellow, until he started eating small amounts of

chicken per doctor's orders. In another, several people I know just had

intuitive

feelings that " it's time to start eating meat again. "

Different people have different needs for nutrients dictated by both

lifestyle and genes. Vegetarian diets are extremely low in the nutrients I

listed,

and entirely absent in some of them-- due to people's varying need for

nutrients, there will be varying success rates with vegetarianism. Those who

don't

live off processed soy foods and also avoid other refined foods that are staples

of the SAD will probably, and those who were eating factory farmed meats, etc,

will probably be much healthier than the average person for a considerable

length of time. For some people, maybe this will last their life. For many, it

will begin to change when certain nutrient stores are depleted over time.

The body can store enough B12 to last for years. Symptoms can appear only

years after the B12 is depleted sometimes. If one is consuming just under one's

minimum requirement from non-meat animal products, it could take as long as 30

years to begin developing symptoms.

I suspect that a waning of the psychological aversion to meat would accompany

this depletion in a healthy person. I went from abhorring the thought of

meat to craving meat and being obsessed with its smell when my physical and

mental problems reached their peak (physical: apathy, tooth decay; mental: panic

attacks, irrational fits of anger, extreme paranoia, debilitating phobias). I

suspect that the few people I've known who had intuitive feelings that the time

was right to eat meat again had very healthy signaling systems in their

bodys, saving them from nutrient depletion once their stores had reached a low,

or

once chronic low intake had done a certain threshold of asymptomatic damage.

But, I also believe strongly that one should never let theory trump

experience. If any given person on ANY diet feels like they are in perfect

health,

like their health is much better now then whatever they were doing before, like

changing it decreases their health, then they should keep doing what they are

doing. However, if a vegetarian considers themselves to be in

less-than-perfect health, she or he should consider the judicious addition of

certain animal

products to their diet to attempt to rectify their problems.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/04 10:51:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

smaas@... writes:

> BTW what is a SAD diet? Sounds miserable!

SAD = Standard American Diet.

-chris

[Guest guest]

BTW what is a SAD diet? Sounds miserable!

Sharon

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:49:11 +0100, Sharon <smaas@...> wrote:

> BTW what is a SAD diet? Sounds miserable!

I believe it stands for " Standard American Diet " ... I guess to the

rest of the world it means pizzas, hotdogs, and hamburgers :-)

Seriously, I first encountered the term at the same time I heard of

" WOE " among the low carb diet crowd (i.e. " Way Of Eating " )

- jim

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I have to disagree with you regarding the lack of vitamin B12 in sea

> vegetables, and being an analog. The only sea vegetable that does

have

> " useable " B12 is aphanizomenon flos aquae.

Heeeelllllloooooo Carol ;-)

Well, you and I had an extensive discussion regarding AFA and B12

last summer on Wellpeople, as you know, and I see you are still a big

fan of AFA. The thing is, the producers of AFA (Celltech)

*themselves* claim that it's not a reliable source of vitamin B12,

which you and I both know since they emailed us that info, and since

I posted it to the wellpeople list. So I'm not sure why you're

implying here that it is, taking all your comments in totality.

For the uninitiated I'll quote much of my response to you at that

time (with a few minor adjustments):

1. microbiological assays, as performed by lancaster labs on AFA

(this is the lab the manufactures of AFA uses on their product), are

not considered to be reliable in determining the content of true b12,

therefore without other more accurate testing methods, this method

alone should not be relied upon to assess the vit. b12 content of AFA

(my words, but info from Celltech)

2. In the canned response i received from celltech, they wrote

everything you quoted (about AFA) except the following quotation,

which you omitted:

" Please note that, although SBGA has demonstrable B12 activity, it

should not be relied upon as the sole source of the vitamin. As with

any other nutrient, a balanced view is recommended. We encourage

consumers who are concerned about a particular health issue, in this

case appropriate daily vitamin consumption, to consult with a

physician or alternative health care practitioner regarding dietary

supplementation. "

soooo....celltech is saying that no one should rely on AFA as the

sole_source_of_vitamin_b12!! THIS could literally be a life-saving

notation for strict vegans. please pass this on if you know of people

who are relying on AFA as their sole source of b12.

(end of my quote from my post to wellpeople)

You are correct though - all

> the others are actually an analog of B12 which prohibits B12

absorption.

IIRC, AFA has many b12 analogs as well, which in all likelihood

counteract whatever small amount of true B12 it contains (although I

haven't seen anything to date that convinces me it actually contains

any true b12).

>

> In fact AFA has all the nutrients you say are lacking in a

vegetarian

> diet.

Really?? *ALL?* It contains pre-formed vitamins A and D3, as well as

EPA? I'd sure love to see an assay demonstrating such.

I honestly don't mean to be argumentative here, but let's keep this

in context - if the manufacturer of the product is telling us the

product is not reliable as the sole source of true B12, maybe we

should listen. As for claims that it contains any of these other

animal-derived nutrients, I don't recall seeing any such claims by

Celltech.

Regards,

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol

cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our

times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and

Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease

researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/04 2:10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

carolminnick@... writes:

> Suze, I don't know why you have to keep disagreeing with this research.

> Lancaster Labs is an independent lab and does not manufacture AFA. And

> the answer is still is the same - AFA is a reliable source of

> bioavailable B12. You can argue with me all you want, but that is a

> fact, and your arguments will not change fact.

Hi Carol,

It's hard to reconcile your statement and the (subjective) conclusion of the

study you posted with the actual (objective) factual information within the

abstract. The study found *in vitro* evidence that there is significant

biologically active B12 in spirulina, which does not contradict in any way the

previous findings that there are four times the amount of analogs that are

inhibitive as there are bioactive forms, and the *in vivo* evidence that

spirulina can

*induce deficiency* of B12 in people.

In vivo evidence always trumps in vitro evidence, because no matter what

diagnostic tests in a test tube show, a substance does you no good if it causes

nervous system damage once it's in your body.

Pernicious anemia is very serious, and can cause irreversible CNS damage. I

find it very surprising that you are reccomending using a substance as a sole

source of B12 that your own information indicates can cause B12 deficiency in

some people, leading to irreversible nervous system damage.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/04 5:44:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

carolminnick@... writes:

> It's not the AFA that causes pernicious anemia, it is the other algaes

> (spirulina) that was stated in the research that caused the pernicious

> anemia. I have never recommended spirulina - I have always recommended

> AFA.

Hi Carol,

I apologize. The logical sequence of the abstract seemed to imply that they

were equivalent-- both are cyanobacteria, so I didn't realize they were

contrasting the two strains.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Suze, I don't know why you have to keep disagreeing with this research.

Lancaster Labs is an independent lab and does not manufacture AFA. And

the answer is still is the same - AFA is a reliable source of

bioavailable B12. You can argue with me all you want, but that is a

fact, and your arguments will not change fact.

Carol

" Scientific studies (Lancet, Jan. 30, 1988; JAMA, Dec. 17, 1982) using

different brands of spirulina demonstrated that nearly 80% of

spirulina's vitamin B12 content is not bioavailable, meaning that your

body is unable to utilize it. The conclusion of these reports included a

warning against over-consumption of spirulina because it induced

pernicious anemia in a number of people. However, an unpublished

preliminary study conducted at the University of Connecticut confirmed

the bioavailability of the vitamin B12 found in Super Blue Green Algae.

The SBGA strain, Aphanizomenon flos-aquae, has also been tested by

independent labs for B12 analog levels using microbiological testing

methods that are comparable to methods of the Association of Official

Analytical Chemists. Vitamin B12, which is in the corrinoid family,

contains four main analogs (cyanocobalamin, hydroxycobalamin,

aquacobalamin and methylcobalamin) that show significant bioactivity.

The testing results on SBGA, while not discerning exactly which

corrinoids are present, indicate significant B12 activity. Therefore,

unlike other plant foods that contain corrinoids with virtually no

vitamin B12 activity, SBGA is shown to be a reliable source for

vegetarians seeking to supplement their diets with a bioactive form of

this important nutrient. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Organic, wholefood, supplements provide nutrients essential for the

health of people, pets and plants. <http://www.bluegreensolutions.com>

http://www.bluegreensolutions.com

[Guest guest]

It's not the AFA that causes pernicious anemia, it is the other algaes

(spirulina) that was stated in the research that caused the pernicious

anemia. I have never recommended spirulina - I have always recommended

AFA.

Carol

-----Original Message-----

From: ChrisMasterjohn@... [mailto:ChrisMasterjohn@...]

find it very surprising that you are reccomending using a substance as

a sole

source of B12 that your own information indicates can cause B12

deficiency in

some people, leading to irreversible nervous system damage.

Chris