low carb lifestyle

[Guest guest]

Yeah, I can show you 100 people on Atkins for every 1/2 person who

believes that the Atkins diet and low carb lifestyle is dead. If low

carb is dangerous, let me show you how it is killing me.I have been on

Atkins for 4 years with no let up. I will be on it for the next 4 years

and the next 4 years beyond that. My cholesterol is stable and healthy.

Glucose is stable which means I have not had to sustain those nasty

insulin spikes. Diabetes runs high in my family and by keeping my blood

glucose under control, I probably will avoid diabetes, or atleast

prolong its onset. My itchy skin has vanished along with my migraines. I

just ran in a 5K run back in November to wave good bye to my 49th

birthday. I will run it again in November 2007 to welcome my fifties.

Thanks to low carb I learned about the health benefits of coconut oil. I

wonder when the other " more healthy " diets will catch on. Women at my

age generally expect to get osteoporosis. I had to have a bone x-ray a

couple of years ago which revealed healthy bone mass. This struck the

doc by surprise. I wasn't surprised because I practice a healthy low

carb diet. I have never been so unworried about my health. Bsavers, here

is something to read that will be more helpful with your

research:http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.\

html

<http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html>

BTW, Atkins is not a meat and cheese diet. Some people just start eating

meat and cheese and call it Atkins. If you knew what Atkins is all about

you would realize that most vegetables of the planet earth are low carb

and many fruits are low carb.

Live Long and Prosper,

>

> I don't know what " primitive cultures " you are referring to with

superior health. They usually do not live very long.............same

goes for ancient cultures.......I don't know what height has to do with

health. The longest lived, healthiest people like the Hunzas and

Okinawans eat very little in the way of animal products. Instead they

eat an abundance of fruits and vegetables...........and have a lifestyle

that includes a lot exercise. There is a reason why the Atkins diet

died...........it only works temporarily and it's dangerous. There was a

previously healthy high school girl, near where I live, that died from

the Atkins diet when it was popular. In addition, if you eat lot's of

animal products, you have to realize that it is full of chemical toxins

and hormones unless it is organic. The best diet includes mostly

vegetables, some fruit, a few grains, occasional meat/milk (if you must

have), and zero processed food.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

>>

> There is no way you could convince me now that the " whites " are

necessary to anyone, no matter your blood type, where you live, or

what you're ancestry is. These are processed crap foods that must be

defended by the low carb bashers to justify eating the garbage that

they are just not willing to give up due to taste/sugar addiction and

blind ignorance.

>

>

> It sounds like your not keen on veggies or fruit either. These are

full of antitoxidants, vitamins etc. carbs from fruit and veg are

low carb, arn't they?

You talk about 'whites' well we all know white carbs are bad. I don't

touch anything white or processed. wholegrain or wholemeal etc is

completely different. Complex carbs release sugar slowly. There is b

vitamins, selenium, fibre, chromium, molybdenum, even probiotics in

wholegrain, How do you get your roughage to keep bowels/colon

healthy?

I must admit i haven't read the latest Atkins or low carb books. I

believe he died fat, so what happened there?

Everyone is different, so if it works for you, good luck with it. I

would be interested to know roughly what you eat in a typical day.

If your not eating bacon, sausages, loads of meat, cheese etc mostly

processed and carcenogenic and don't eat carbs(or do you buy low carb

equivalents?) and not keen on friut and veg, what exactly are you

eating? I'm not having a go, i'm just curious. My husband says its

proven we don't need carbs but i'm not sure that's true.

Sally

[Guest guest]

On 1/2/07, Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

>

> . carbs from fruit and veg are

> low carb, arn't they?

Hi - I know this wasn't addressed to me but can I jump in here. Atkins is so

often misquoted and taken out of context. Atkins himself knew everyone was

different. He openly admitted that his induction phase of very low carb

eating (mostly meats, fish, eggs, cheese etc plus a cup of green veg) was

unbalanced. that's why he recommended it for two weeks only.

His books were written for an American market. He felt that they typical

diet was far too unbalanced in favour of carbohydrates. He argued that

adding a balnced diet to a body totally out of balance would still leave it

unbalanced. therefore he recommended everyone start his induction phase and

then after two weeks start adding more carbs back into the diet gradually

till everyone found their own personal level. Some people can manage quite a

number and include whole grains, beans etc. Others, like myself, are

particularly insulin resistant and have to keep the level fairly low.

I'm not a saint - I don't always stick rigidly to what I should eat but,

if I don't, I suffer immediately. The carb count for fruit and veg varies

widely. Most fruits are very high in sugar as are some veg but there are

loads of low carb ones.

I eat a lot of salads with chicken or fish. I also eat a lot of stir frys

with meat and veg. Last night I had organic free range beef with stir fried

onions, green peppers and broccoli (in VCO of course :-). I buy organic

sausages, bacon and burgers from our local farmer's market. That way I know

exactly what's in them but I wouldn't say I eat them that often - maybe a

couple of times a week - if that. i make a lot of homemade soups (bacon and

peppers or broccoli and stilton are my two favourites). If I want to up the

protein content, I'll add chopped chicken or cheese. I don't eat much fruit

but do take raspberries, strawberries and my favourite, blueberries. I've

also become a great fan of the undenatured whey, Duncan recommends. I'll

have this with psyllium husks, inulin, VCO and a handful of berries.

There were a lot of stories circulating that Atkins died overweight. A

group, I think it might have been PETA but I'm not sure so don't wish to

slander anyone, illegally obtained and published a copy of his autopsy and

it was widely reported that a. he was overweight and b. died of a heart

attack. His doctors, not so widely reported, were at pains to point out that

he died from slipping on the ice and cracking his skull and that his weight

was normal when he was admitted to hospital but that the drips he was on

while unconscious had caused severe oedema and a substantial weight gain.

In saying all this, I have to add that I personally don't like the changes

in the Atkins corporation since he died. Atkins promoted mostly fresh foods

free from additives. Nowadays I feel the Atkins corporation spends all its

time promoting low carb substitutes made with many ingredients I wouldn't

dream of touching. Many people I know call stuff like this 'frankenfoods'.

I heard that the sale of these has drastically declined but that doesn't for

a minute mean that the number of people following a low carb diet more like

Atkin's original one has declined. There are loads of groups on the internet

that prove otherwise.

Kirsteen

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

> >

> > . carbs from fruit and veg are

> > low carb, arn't they?

>

>

> Hi - I know this wasn't addressed to me but can I jump in here.

Atkins is so

>

Hi Kirsteen

Your diet seems okay. I'm not saying no 'low carb' or 'atkins'

followers never eat any vegetables but jovelle baker seemed to be

saying fruit and veg were bad too. Surely veg needs to be are no 1

priority. Also protein from a lot of meat is acidic to the body.

What brand whey did you get? I quite like the sound of the Mercola

one or Ray ? can't remember name. They don't ship though to Europe.

Better if i can just buy from this country. Whey according to Duncan

is alkaline so it will be good way to get extra protein instead of

eating meat however i read we should only have 30g a day,this could

be incorrect though. My worry is still that if i'm not body building

(lol)i'll be getting to much, but if i use it instead of a meal that

should be okay, and they say to work up gradually. How much do you

personally use a day?

[Guest guest]

On 1/2/07, Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

>

> Your diet seems okay. I'm not saying no 'low carb' or 'atkins'

> followers never eat any vegetables but jovelle baker seemed to be

> saying fruit and veg were bad too.

Actually she didn't say all fruit and veg she said " the so-called healthy

high sugar fruits and starchy vegetables " . I have to say i agree with her in

avoiding these.

> Surely veg needs to be are no 1

> priority.

I'm not convinced it does. I certainly eat a lot of veg, intrinsically I

somehow feel it's healthy, most low carbers I know do, but I did a fair bit

of research in the past and found very little to substantiate our current

stance on it. For instance, everywhere you go you hear the " 5-a-day " slogan.

Why? Because surely we all 'know' we need 5 a day. There was never a single

bit of research behind this. there is absolutely no evidence for this. It

was a a slogan that got accepted and passed into common belief with nothing

to substantiate it. Why the magic number 5? Why not 4 or 6? Who decided

that's the amount we need? - we all need? Does a 5' 110lb female need the

same as 6'+ 200lb male? That doesn't make sense to me.

It's the same with protein. I don't believe one size fits all. i have read

that many people on the typical 'western diet' actually suffer from a

shortage of protein. I've read a woman needs at least 45gm I've read we all

need at least 70gms. You pay your money - you pick your book and you take

your choice :-) Personally I believe we all have to find what suits us

best.

As to the acid / alkaline, I don't know enough to comment on that.

I'm currently using the Reflex Microwhey, basically because it was easily

available here. I usually take it once a day (a 3 scoop serving) I'd like to

take more but find it quite filling so I'm working up to it.

I'm the first to admit I have serious health isues but I don't believe that

any amounts of protein I've taken are in any way detrimental but I do know

that anything high in carbs definitely is.

I happen to believe that a low carb lifestyle is by far the healthiest

choice in that it works for me but hey everyone's unique.

Apart from Atkins himself some other good books on the subject are 'The

Carbohydrate Addict's Lifespan Program' by the Hellers (one of my personal

favourites). Protein Power by the Eades and a totally fascinating book,

while not actually advocating any particular programe has a lot to say about

Atkins and indeed modern society in general is 'The Hungry Years' by

Leith.

Kirsteen

--

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

I can't find the post about differentiating Atkins and low carb.

There is no difference. Atkins is low carb just like an apple is a

fruit. There are various low carb diets and Atkins is one of them.

When I began Atkins induction phase, I ate more vegetables on this

diet than I ever have. Asparagus, zuchini, mustard greens, collards,

spinach, brocolli to name a few. I learned that 95% of the planet's

vegetables are low carb. Many of these foods that we call vegetables

are actually fruit.My favorite example is the red pepper which

surpasses an orange in nutrients such as vitamin C and vitamin A. It

is a fruit, it is low carb and it is on Atkins.Another fruit, the

avocado, is about the most nutritious fruit on the planet. It is low

carb and on the Akins diet. Soon I began to add raspberries,

strawberries, cantalope, blueberries and various nuts. The majority

of fruits, vegetables and nuts that I choose to eat on Atkins version

of low carb are also listed under superfoods. This is when I really

get confused about why people think that Atkins isn't healthy.

The most of my carbs come from low glycemic fruit and vegetables.As

you can see, I survive quite well without the white carbs of

yesterday. My brain, kidneys, liver and heart are happy campers.I

have the blood tests to support that.

> >>

> > There is no way you could convince me now that the " whites " are

> necessary to anyone, no matter your blood type, where you live, or

> what you're ancestry is. These are processed crap foods that must

be

> defended by the low carb bashers to justify eating the garbage that

> they are just not willing to give up due to taste/sugar addiction

and

> blind ignorance.

> >

> >

> > It sounds like your not keen on veggies or fruit either. These

are

> full of antitoxidants, vitamins etc. carbs from fruit and veg are

> low carb, arn't they?

>

> You talk about 'whites' well we all know white carbs are bad. I

don't

> touch anything white or processed. wholegrain or wholemeal etc is

> completely different. Complex carbs release sugar slowly. There is

b

> vitamins, selenium, fibre, chromium, molybdenum, even probiotics in

> wholegrain, How do you get your roughage to keep bowels/colon

> healthy?

>

> I must admit i haven't read the latest Atkins or low carb books. I

> believe he died fat, so what happened there?

>

> Everyone is different, so if it works for you, good luck with it.

I

> would be interested to know roughly what you eat in a typical day.

> If your not eating bacon, sausages, loads of meat, cheese etc

mostly

> processed and carcenogenic and don't eat carbs(or do you buy low

carb

> equivalents?) and not keen on friut and veg, what exactly are you

> eating? I'm not having a go, i'm just curious. My husband says

its

> proven we don't need carbs but i'm not sure that's true.

>

> Sally

>

[Guest guest]

On 1/2/07, Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

>

>

> your version of low carb probably isn't unhealthy because you

> are including lots of fruit and veg, and you seem to agree with me

> that most fruit and veg are low carb.

'Fraid not - 'most' fruit is high carb - sugar loaded. All starchy veg are

high carb. what said was that the majority of fruits, vegetables and

nuts that she chooses to eat on Atkins are low carb..

I know 5 a day is just a figure, as someone pointed out but it's the

> array of antitoxidants that 'some' low carb followers will miss out

> on if they choose to omit alot of fruit and veg because they see

> these as high carb. I mean surely just omitting the bread and grains

> etc is enough.

So no, I'm afraid if you want to do low carb you have to cut out a lot more

than just bread and grains.

Kirsteen

--

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

There are 1160 references on the site, have you looked at them all?. Did you

look at the short term and long term effects? Did you also read the multitude

of expert opinions. Since I'm an open minded person I'd like to see where you

get your counter argument from, in additon to the bankrupt Atkins society. I'm

not upset that you are healthy.......I just don't like seeing others people led

astray by dangerous fad diets.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On 1/4/07, bsavers <bsavers2@...> wrote:

>

> There are 1160 references on the site, have you looked at them all?. Did

> you look at the short term and long term effects? Did you also read the

> multitude of expert opinions. Since I'm an open minded person I'd like to

> see where you get your counter argument from, in additon to the bankrupt

> Atkins society. I'm not upset that you are healthy.......I just don't like

> seeing others people led astray by dangerous fad diets.

Beleive me it's not a dangerous or a fad diet. there are far more than 1160

people who can testify to that.

The diet industry is the fastest growing and most lucrative industry in

America. It churns out billions of dollars worth of 'low-fat' foods. Since

the low-fat trend started, Americans have continued to get more and more

obese. I'm British but, trust me, we're not far behind. More worryingly, the

incidence of heart attacks, type 2 diabetes etc are all rapidly increasing.

added to that less than 4% of people who lose weight by low fat / calorie

restricted dieting manage to keep off any weight they lose. Most not only

put it back on but put on more because that's the way our bodies are

designed.

Does the diet industry take any responsibility for this - no. It absolutely,

fantastically cleverly persuades people that they're the ones at fault.

They're 'weak willed' for not sticking it and (you have to admire it) sells

them even more junk designed to keep them ever on the same spiral.

Atkins was the biggest single threat to that industry. He came along and

said you don't need any of that junk. He promoted a way of eating that

consisted of real, natural, unprocessed food and showed that people were not

only losing weight on it but becoming far more healthy, lowered their blood

pressure, increased their heart health, controlled diabetes etc. It became

so polular that seriously affected the diet industry's profits. How do you

make a profit on natural foods? Is it any wonder they tried everything

possible to discredit him? Let's face it, they did much the same to

discredit coconut oil.

There's been loads of scaremongering about Atkins yet the studies that show

it increases good cholesterol etc have mostly been buried. After all who

pays for most of the research?

A few years ago I read in the paper that they were conducting a study in

England on 'women who could not be persuaded to abandon the Atkins diet

during their pregnancies' (obviously totally unbiased- yeah right!). When

pushed about publishing the evidence, they stated that if the study showed

" anything interesting " they would publish it. In other words, if they

couldn't use it to discredit Atkins - it wouldn't be published.

Most people I know who go on low carbohydrate diets (and, of course, Atkins

isn't the only one) do it to lose weight. However, why they stick to that

way of eating is because of the increased health benefits they find from it.

I know this is anecdotal but the number of people on the different lists I'm

on is quite overwhelming.

I don't care whether people eat a low carb diet or not. It's no skin off my

nose and I'm the first to admit we're all different and it may not suit

everyone. But it does sadden me to see that people who could be helped by a

healthy beneficial way of eating put off because it's been labelled

dangerous and faddy simply to keep the fat cats (no pun intended) in profit.

kirsteen

__________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Since you haven't given references for studies proving the benefits of Atkins,

you obviously not interested in facts so there is no point continuing. I could

say that some people are currently not knowingly sick and have lost weight with

smoking without backing it up with science too. This is a coconut oil forum not

an Atkins forum anyway. The Atkins fad is over.

Luxref.org - because the truth is out there.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

On 1/5/07, bsavers <bsavers2@...> wrote:

>

> Since you haven't given references for studies proving the benefits of

> Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is no point

> continuing.

No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove Atkins to anyone.

But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what they're interested

in. It really does smack of hubris.

The Atkins fad is over.

for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly isn't over

Kirsteen

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

Kirsten is right. The Atkins diet, in particular, has been around, in

name, for over thirty years.Low carb, protein rich diets have been

around as long as humans have been in existance.It continues and it

is healthy. BTW, I lost 30 lbs on it while improving my health.Silly

me, I spent a good half hour tracking and writing out links compiling

the benefits of the low carb diet. All the while, I was thinking that

anyone can look for this information just as easily as I can. So I am

not posting any of the links that I put together. But, there is some

important information out there if you want to avoid diabetes,

pancreatic cancer, breast cancer, PCOS, osteoporosis, Alzheimers,

celiac disease,the list goes on, you can easily find it. If you are

interested in finding the info, it is out there just as easily for

you as it was for me.

To quote , For thousands of us______it was never a fad and it

definietly is not over.

> >

> > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

benefits of

> > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is no point

> > continuing.

>

>

> No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove Atkins to

anyone.

> But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what they're

interested

> in. It really does smack of hubris.

>

> The Atkins fad is over.

>

>

> for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly isn't over

>

> Kirsteen

>

>

> Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > >

> > > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

> benefits of

> > > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is no

point

> > > continuing.

> >

> >

> > No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove Atkins

to

> anyone.

> > But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what they're

> interested

> > in. It really does smack of hubris.

> >

> > The Atkins fad is over.

> >

> >

> > for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly isn't

over

> >

> > Kirsteen

> >

> >

> > Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

On 1/5/07, Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

>

>

> >

> , it doesn't mean my way of eating isn't healthy either you go on

> about avoiding various disease, as if low carb is the only way to do

> that.

> The way i eat is much like the healthy middle aged hippy's Jill was

> talking about. That is a healthy diet as well even if fruit and veg

> and grain etc are high carb.

I don't honestly think anyone has told you your diet isn't healthy - for

you. Many of us couldn't cope with it but I've been at great pains to say

everyone is different and I've never believed in a 'one size fits all' in

diet supplements or anything else.

If you don't think it's fair because you feel you've been pulled apart for

what you believe in, how do you think I feel. The difference is I've had a

lot more than just sarky comments. I've had people openly tell me my diet

is - bad, dangerous, scary, a fad, a fad that's dead - mostly by people

who admit they haven't read the books and therefore don't actually know

anything about it.

I've been patronised by people supposing what I'm eating might be all right.

I've been insulted by people speculating that I might have meant something

different from what I actually said and finally I've been accused of not

providing everyone with the research as though it's my responsibilty to save

people having to look for it themselves.

This is an extremely healthy way of life and can be absolutely crucial for

some of the conditions mentioned. If some people want to wallow in

their own ignorance and denigrate a way of life they know nothing about,

that's fine by me but I do find it really sad that they have the utter

hubris to take the responsibility for talking other people out of following

it. People who may well be really helped by it.

Kirsteen

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

Whole grains is fine but it should be organic and soaked in something

acidic. In the evening I soak organic rolled oats in a tablespoon of

kefir for about 8 hours. Grains require careful preparation because

they contain a number of antinutrients that can cause serious health

problems. Phytic acid, for example, is an organic acid in which

phosphorus is bound. It is mostly found in the bran or outer hull of

seeds. Untreated phytic acid can combine with calcium, magnesium,

copper, iron and especially zinc in the intestinal tract and block

their absorption. This is why a diet high in improperly prepared

whole grains may lead to serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss.

The modern misguided practice of consuming large amounts of

unprocessed bran often improves colon transit time at first but may

lead to irritable bowel syndrome and, in the long term, many other

adverse effects.

Other antinutrients in whole grains include enzyme inhibitors which

can inhibit digestion and put stress on the pancreas; irritating

tannins; complex sugars which the body cannot break down; and gluten

and related hard-to-digest proteins which may cause allergies,

digestive disorders and even mental illness.

I stay away from all boxed cereals.

> > > >

> > > > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

> > benefits of

> > > > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is no

> point

> > > > continuing.

> > >

> > >

> > > No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove Atkins

> to

> > anyone.

> > > But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what they're

> > interested

> > > in. It really does smack of hubris.

> > >

> > > The Atkins fad is over.

> > >

> > >

> > > for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly isn't

> over

> > >

> > > Kirsteen

> > >

> > >

> > > Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I soak grains in water and a tablespoon of kefir overnight for about

8 hours then it cooks in about 5-10min.

> > > > >

> > > > > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

> > > benefits of

> > > > > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is

no

> > point

> > > > > continuing.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove

Atkins

> > to

> > > anyone.

> > > > But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what

they're

> > > interested

> > > > in. It really does smack of hubris.

> > > >

> > > > The Atkins fad is over.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly

isn't

> > over

> > > >

> > > > Kirsteen

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

---

Dear Kirsteen~

I think you have totally blown this so all out of proportion.

I dont understand why you are so stressed about this? If I said

soemthing to make you so freaked out I totally apologize. Any of

your paranoia involving my post was totally put into the tone by you,

I assure you,

I was smiling and not attacking~

adding smiles into my note.

all I said was that SPLENDA was TERRIBLE for anyone trying to lose

weight it was not good!!!

and

we all know that Dr Atkins was a supporter of splenda and the Atkins

corp was a major part in popularizing that sugar suppliment .

I criticized splenda and atkins shakes and atkins bars and that

commercialized stuff.

To which you strongly told me that you do not eat those foods.

ok. I believe you. But does it really matter anyway?

I did not attack you! I promise!

I have never attacked anyone on an email list. I do not take them

that seriously. I am the mother of 11 children and have an elderly

mother who i was w/ in the hospital *all* day today working out her

homecare and OT and heart scans and ..... and I have more to do than

attack people on a list!

I am a nice nice lady. I am

Ask Beth in Idaho , she knows me )

Again,

I apologize for causing you any stress.

oh and btw,

after I sent that message yesterday I did remember that I have in

fact read the original atkins diet book many yrs back,

so altho I doubt that effects my intelligence I want you to know

that I am not as horribly ignorant as a sponge.

Altho,

at the mment,

my brain feels a bit like a sponge !!! and I dont care!

I really really am not attacking, accusing, cruel, self righteous

or anything but just a plain old earth mama trying to tell people

dont eat artificial sugar or pretend food. thats all.

sorry sorry sorry

Please try not to personalize peoples comments. Cant we discuss on a

discussion list ? i *enjoy* talking about health topics,

it shouldnt be a subject of extreme stress to anyone. Its FOOD.just

food. ))) (see~ smiles:))))

warmly

OOOOOO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,jill

country mama x 11

In Coconut Oil , " Kirsteen "

<kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:

>

> On 1/5/07, Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

> >

> >

> > >

> > , it doesn't mean my way of eating isn't healthy either you

go on

> > about avoiding various disease, as if low carb is the only way

to do

> > that.

> > The way i eat is much like the healthy middle aged hippy's Jill

was

> > talking about. That is a healthy diet as well even if fruit and

veg

> > and grain etc are high carb.

>

>

> I don't honestly think anyone has told you your diet isn't

healthy - for

> you. Many of us couldn't cope with it but I've been at great pains

to say

> everyone is different and I've never believed in a 'one size fits

all' in

> diet supplements or anything else.

>

> If you don't think it's fair because you feel you've been pulled

apart for

> what you believe in, how do you think I feel. The difference is

I've had a

> lot more than just sarky comments. I've had people openly tell me

my diet

> is - bad, dangerous, scary, a fad, a fad that's dead - mostly

by people

> who admit they haven't read the books and therefore don't actually

know

> anything about it.

>

> I've been patronised by people supposing what I'm eating might be

all right.

> I've been insulted by people speculating that I might have meant

something

> different from what I actually said and finally I've been accused

of not

> providing everyone with the research as though it's my

responsibilty to save

> people having to look for it themselves.

>

> This is an extremely healthy way of life and can be absolutely

crucial for

> some of the conditions mentioned. If some people want to

wallow in

> their own ignorance and denigrate a way of life they know nothing

about,

> that's fine by me but I do find it really sad that they have the

utter

> hubris to take the responsibility for talking other people out of

following

> it. People who may well be really helped by it.

>

> Kirsteen

>

>

> Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry. I am one person who avoids arguments with all my might

because it isn't necessary. I for one am only defending my own

dietary lifestyle as a healthy one. Just because I call my lifestyle

healthy doesn't mean all hell should break out. I have not degraded

anyone's choices I have just listed ways that back my choices. I do

believe that my comments were understood as being malicious which

they are not.I have not said that any other dietary lifestyle was

unhealthy.I didn't say low carb is the only way to do anything.

Sally, don't leave. If I am pulling anyone apart on this forum, that

I have so much respect for, I will bow out.

> > > >

> > > > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

> > benefits of

> > > > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is no

> point

> > > > continuing.

> > >

> > >

> > > No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove Atkins

> to

> > anyone.

> > > But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what they're

> > interested

> > > in. It really does smack of hubris.

> > >

> > > The Atkins fad is over.

> > >

> > >

> > > for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly isn't

> over

> > >

> > > Kirsteen

> > >

> > >

> > > Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

*Dear Kirsteen~

I think you have totally blown this so all out of proportion.

I dont understand why you are so stressed about this? If I said

soemthing to make you so freaked out I totally apologize. Any of

your paranoia involving my post was totally put into the tone by you,

*

Ok so you're a nice lady so you say - you may well be. I've never said you

weren't. You tell me not to personalise people's comments. Yet you tell me

I've blown this out of proportion - I'm stressed out - I'm freaked out - I'm

paranoid. Wow that really is some apology! Actually I'm neither stressed,

nor freaked, nor paranoid - believe it or not. I'm just totally, totally

curious as to why you would tell me I'm all these things but tell me not to

take comments personally.

In fact I've had private emails from people in this group commending me on

being so restrained in my replies to the attacks they feel I've received -

so I don't really think I'm the paranoid one. As you say, none of this

really matters so I can't quite see why you feel the need to keep on at me.

Must be something deeply psychological

Kirsteen

--

Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

[Guest guest]

> > > > >

> > > > > Since you haven't given references for studies proving the

> > > benefits of

> > > > > Atkins, you obviously not interested in facts so there is

no

> > point

> > > > > continuing.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > No but I have touched on why. Also I don't need to prove

Atkins

> > to

> > > anyone.

> > > > But please don't be so insulting as to tell people what

they're

> > > interested

> > > > in. It really does smack of hubris.

> > > >

> > > > The Atkins fad is over.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > for thousands of us - it never was a fad and it certainly

isn't

> > over

> > > >

> > > > Kirsteen

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Chaos, confusion, disorder - my work here is done

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

You seem to be forgetting that it was YOU who said Atkins was not healthy

remember? You were the one who started this whole thing in a negative tone. It

was YOU who said the way we eat is not safe. We are just defending what we do,

not trying to tell you what to do.

Sally <sally.hoffman@...> wrote:

>

, it doesn't mean my way of eating isn't healthy either you go on

about avoiding various disease, as if low carb is the only way to do

that.

The way i eat is much like the healthy middle aged hippy's Jill was

talking about. That is a healthy diet as well even if fruit and veg

and grain etc are high carb. People should be allowed their opinion

and respect other peoples. I see nothing wrong in eating

wholegrain,etc and i don't think it fair to be pulled apart by

certain people on this forum for believing what i do and not agreeing

with them. Because the way things have been going lately i was in

half a mind to leave the group. I can do without sarky comments etc

greeting me in the morning when i turn on the computer. I come on

here for discussion not arguements.

>

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[Guest guest]

I agree, I don't think it should be taken as offensive if one is asking for

supporting evidence or facts vs. opinions or anecdotes. No need for hysterics.

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