Guest guest Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Duncan Crow wrote: > I don't think these are actually HGH TRUTHS but OPINIONS. The > site even says NO DATA EXISTS for the testing, unlike the peer- > reviewed Isidori study that did test amino acids on humans. > Is there any info on who paid for the Isidori study? Not criticizing, but it is 18 years old, and apparently has never been duplicated? Isn't it usual with such studies that someone somwhere tries to duplicate it and see if they get the same results? I wonder if it has been tried by others and they did not see the same results? just curious, sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Never mind, I see these issues have been discussed already. sol sol wrote: > Is there any info on who paid for the Isidori study? Not criticizing, > but it is 18 years old, and apparently has never been duplicated? Isn't > it usual with such studies that someone somwhere tries to duplicate it > and see if they get the same results? > I wonder if it has been tried by others and they did not see the same > results? > just curious, > sol > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sol, the pharma companies weren't interested so a few health companies had to pick up the tab for further development themselves. After repeating and improving on the results this research resulted in a proprietary formula that includes the Isidori formula. People also duplicate the results with higher doses of inferior amino acids in a suboptimal formula, so in fact we are repeating the experiment but with maybe less control and a wide scope. Can't say we aren't getting results tho' Duncan > > I don't think these are actually HGH TRUTHS but OPINIONS. The > > site even says NO DATA EXISTS for the testing, unlike the peer- > > reviewed Isidori study that did test amino acids on humans. > > > Is there any info on who paid for the Isidori study? Not criticizing, > but it is 18 years old, and apparently has never been duplicated? Isn't > it usual with such studies that someone somwhere tries to duplicate it > and see if they get the same results? > I wonder if it has been tried by others and they did not see the same > results? > just curious, > sol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Sol, I haven¹t been totally following this thread, but I will say that I think that usually only happens(the process you describe) when there are big pharmaceutical companies funding the studies. It¹s so hard to get money for studies for the stuff that is healthy and really works, mainly comes from private donors and such....... I¹m thining of chiropractic here too, and things along those lines. It obviously really works, but who is going to fund studies? chantelle On 1/26/09 3:03 PM, " sol " <solbun@...> wrote: > > > > Duncan Crow wrote: >> > I don't think these are actually HGH TRUTHS but OPINIONS. The >> > site even says NO DATA EXISTS for the testing, unlike the peer- >> > reviewed Isidori study that did test amino acids on humans. >> > > Is there any info on who paid for the Isidori study? Not criticizing, > but it is 18 years old, and apparently has never been duplicated? Isn't > it usual with such studies that someone somwhere tries to duplicate it > and see if they get the same results? > I wonder if it has been tried by others and they did not see the same > results? > just curious, > sol > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Sol, regarding the Isidori study, one of the articles that I quoted in my post of 1/26 states: " However, other researchers have not replicated these findings, particularly in healthy individuals. " (Once again, that link is http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html ). Clearly, that implies that others have tried to replicate it. SteveD > > I don't think these are actually HGH TRUTHS but OPINIONS. The > > site even says NO DATA EXISTS for the testing, unlike the peer- > > reviewed Isidori study that did test amino acids on humans. > > > Is there any info on who paid for the Isidori study? Not criticizing, > but it is 18 years old, and apparently has never been duplicated? Isn't > it usual with such studies that someone somwhere tries to duplicate it > and see if they get the same results? > I wonder if it has been tried by others and they did not see the same > results? > just curious, > sol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 You know, I think it is important to know who funds any study we are looking at. It is amazing the number of studies where the published outcome matches the advantage to the entity(s) who funded them. Studies with results contrary to the interests of those footing the bill are routinely buried and not published. But, from the way Duncan writes it, and the posted articles I've read, it looks like the Isidori study came first, then somalife made their formula. Don't know if I have that right, but that is how it appeared to me. sol Chantelle wrote: > that usually only happens(the process you describe) when there are big > pharmaceutical companies funding the studies. It¹s so hard to get money for > studies for the stuff that is healthy and really works, mainly comes from > private donors and such....... > > I¹m thining of chiropractic here too, and things along those lines. It > obviously really works, but who is going to fund studies? > chantelle > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I try not to make decisions based on implications, LOL. But it does kinda read that way. At any rate, none of the study issues change the fact that SL is only sold via an MLM, and I just don't want anything to do with MLMs. SL may or may not be an exception, but in my experience MLMs are always scams, built to charge high prices for inferior products, or at least products that are in no way superior to what one can purchase by regular retail or online stores much cheaper. Of course a lot of products sold via regular stores are also inferior, but buyer beware has always been in force, LOL. sol esdel1955 wrote: > Sol, regarding the Isidori study, one of the articles that I quoted in > my post of 1/26 states: " However, other researchers have > not replicated these findings, particularly in healthy individuals. " > (Once again, that link is http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html ). > Clearly, that implies that others have tried to replicate it. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Sol, the video I saw showed amino acids right from the bottle clouding the water with partially digested meat protein as some of it dissolved, while SomaLife's stayed on top of the water like Styrofoam powder without mixing at all. This is one way they exposed the impurity of some amino acids. In this case the inferior product was the one from the store, not from SomaLife. This would be the reason why if you used that store product you'd have to double or triple the dose as a minimum, and why the " effective dose " recommendation is so high, up to 30 grams, with that kind of product. all good, Duncan > > Sol, regarding the Isidori study, one of the articles that I quoted in > > my post of 1/26 states: " However, other researchers have > > not replicated these findings, particularly in healthy individuals. " > > (Once again, that link is http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html ). > > Clearly, that implies that others have tried to replicate it. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under the review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball players used it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high-quality supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality HGH supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than checking label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about these anti-aging supplements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Yeah, lots of people continue to use SomaLife and they wouldn't if it didn't work. I agree on label ingredients: they show weight, not purity. Anti-aging is really the bottom line in these health forums isn't it so I'm glad to share whatever gets you there Duncan > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under the > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball players used > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high-quality > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality HGH > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than checking > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah. And I agree with you that I always look for the source of the funding. Enig and Sally Fallon¹s book deals DIRECTLY with this in the first few chapters. How everything (truthwise) in regards to saturated fat and polyunsaturated , how the studies were manipulated and how those finding the truth were squelched and it was never published and their funds were totally dropped. Very interesting reading. chantelle On 1/27/09 11:46 AM, " sol " <solbun@...> wrote: > > > > You know, I think it is important to know who funds any study we are > looking at. It is amazing the number of studies where the published > outcome matches the advantage to the entity(s) who funded them. Studies > with results contrary to the interests of those footing the bill are > routinely buried and not published. > But, from the way Duncan writes it, and the posted articles I've read, > it looks like the Isidori study came first, then somalife made their > formula. Don't know if I have that right, but that is how it appeared to me. > sol > > Chantelle wrote: >> > that usually only happens(the process you describe) when there are big >> > pharmaceutical companies funding the studies. It¹s so hard to get money for >> > studies for the stuff that is healthy and really works, mainly comes from >> > private donors and such....... >> > >> > I¹m thining of chiropractic here too, and things along those lines. It >> > obviously really works, but who is going to fund studies? >> > chantelle >> > >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I funded my own " studies " on myself and my family. We're batting a thousand with this supplement; I urge anyone interested in anti-aging to similarly fund their own rather than wait for someone else's. Duncan > >> > that usually only happens(the process you describe) when there are big > >> > pharmaceutical companies funding the studies. It¹s so hard to get money for > >> > studies for the stuff that is healthy and really works, mainly comes from > >> > private donors and such....... > >> > > >> > I¹m thining of chiropractic here too, and things along those lines. It > >> > obviously really works, but who is going to fund studies? > >> > chantelle > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I went back for another look at the HGH truths site to verify my first impression that the fella does little research prior to giving his opinions. I did, and I agree with you . His site is not so much to do with the science of performance or purity of products but to rate them based on price. In his mind all amino acids products are about equal yet we know purity is actually a main issue because of how it affect efficacy. You'll have to unravel his reasoning to find out what the heck he must have been thinking when he rated some products. I rate his site a C+ for effort, and C- for actual content. Duncan o > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under the > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball players used > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high-quality > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality HGH > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than checking > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I appreciate the site. Most of these " hgh " products are ripoffs. And while the site focuses on the cost factor, it does so by examining the ingredients. Somalife is too pricey for many. Price will always be a decision maker. If one is willing to afford somalife and has faith in it, then by all means do so, but there are other options...... > > > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under the > > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball players > used > > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high-quality > > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality > HGH > > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than checking > > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 ly, I'm suspicious of this site. The guy who runs it doesn't identify himself or state what his qualifications are. Anybody can put up a website and say whatever they want. There are TONS of websites purporting to offer " reviews " when they are in fact pushing a particular product (hoodia " review " sites are among the most common). One can easily make up " testimonials, " too. Just because you read something on the Internet, that doesn't mean it's true. Anybody who believes the " reviews " on this site will come away thinking that they should buy Secretagogue, since it's rated as best. I could be wrong, but I suspect this site is just a marketing ploy for Secretagogue. SteveD > > I appreciate the site. Most of these " hgh " products are ripoffs. > And while the site focuses on the cost factor, it does so by examining > the ingredients. Somalife is too pricey for many. Price will always > be a decision maker. If one is willing to afford somalife and has > faith in it, then by all means do so, but there are other options...... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Elaine you indicated that you believe the HGHtruths site examined the ingredients before pronouncing that all amino acids are the same so can be measured against each other costwise. I have video though that shows that water discoloration from partially- digested meat proteins occurs when common amino acids are stirred in, compared to SomaTrope's purer amino acids not dissolving at all. Because preferential absorption of the competing amino acids undermines the experiment, the purity and dosages are dissimilar and the cost " guesstimate " is comparing dissimilar products. Not good. Further, this scenario: a certain weight of pure amino acids produces X effect, and it's known that much more is sometimes needed, no doubt from other research that did not have as pure amino acids. A hapless consumer, believing the HGHtruths website, might well err on the low side of dosage to save money, resulting in a failure to get the 30 ng/mL HGH increase needed, and a failure of their anti-aging bid based on this bad information. Duncan > > > > > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under the > > > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball players > > used > > > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high- quality > > > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality > > HGH > > > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than checking > > > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > > > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I am more suspicious of the MLM that has been talked about here regarding somalife. I really didn't get the vibe that hgh truths was solely pushing secretagogue. I have not bought secretagogue even though it is highly rated on some seller sites - some of which I highly regard. " Just because you read something on the Internet, that doesn't mean it's true. " yep, absolutely > > > > I appreciate the site. Most of these " hgh " products are ripoffs. > > And while the site focuses on the cost factor, it does so by > examining > > the ingredients. Somalife is too pricey for many. Price will > always > > be a decision maker. If one is willing to afford somalife and has > > faith in it, then by all means do so, but there are other > options...... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Duncan I cannot comment regarding preferential absorption other than to go back to the cost issue. Being the helper everyone says you are (not being sarcastic here) than you can certainly understand that people have different needs i.e. financial. I believe taking certain aminos in certain ratios will help the body to release hgh. I believe some people are able in effect to make their own cocktail of these certain aminos without spending so much. And I believe what you are saying regarding somalife's purity and personal testimony to its effectiveness. Thank you > > > > > > > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under > the > > > > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball > players > > > used > > > > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high- > quality > > > > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality > > > HGH > > > > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than > checking > > > > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > > > > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK Elaine, here's how I look at it -- impure product costs more than pure to get the same effect. Impure amino acids are known to require 18-30 grams, (if the mix was about right), while pure amino acids require under 5 grams for this effect. The impure blend doses about 4x or 5x higher, so it costs 5x as much as you thought and you've lost your savings. This is exactly what my body builder friend ran into; he doesn't mix his own anymore even though he thought he was getting the blend right. He's happy with the difference I think it would be better to take SomaLife gHP for 5 days of 7 to save $$ rather than 4x as much of a poor blend and not know if it will even max out HGH release with each dose. Duncan > > > > > > > > > > Duncan, I did notice on the hghtruths site that comments under > > the > > > > > review of Somalife said that many Major League Baseball > > players > > > > used > > > > > it and a few different people chimed in saying it was a high- > > quality > > > > > supplement. The site's method of determining high vs low quality > > > > HGH > > > > > supplement doesn't seem too scientific actually, other than > > checking > > > > > label ingedients. Regardless, I do appreciate you telling us about > > > > > these anti-aging supplements. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Duncan Crow wrote: > OK Elaine, here's how I look at it -- impure product costs more than > pure to get the same effect. I wasn't sure I believed the statement that pure amino acids don't dissolve in water, but I recently got a jar of Doctor's Best L-Tryptophan powder and the stuff just sits on the top of the water. Takes a lot of stirring to get it mixed into the water enough to drink it, and it never does dissolve at all so far as I can tell. It's a pain, but I guess it means it is very good quality? It has no other ingredients at all, just tryptophan. sol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 sol, what condition are you addressing with the L-Tryptophan or result(s) are you trying to get? -richard- > OK Elaine, here's how I look at it -- impure product costs more than > pure to get the same effect. I wasn't sure I believed the statement that pure amino acids don't dissolve in water, but I recently got a jar of Doctor's Best L-Tryptophan powder and the stuff just sits on the top of the water. Takes a lot of stirring to get it mixed into the water enough to drink it, and it never does dissolve at all so far as I can tell. It's a pain, but I guess it means it is very good quality? It has no other ingredients at all, just tryptophan. sol .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Chronic severe insomnia. Not helped much by anything, either Rx or alternative. But this is the first time I've tried tryptophan, 5-HTP was a dead loss. Most things give me the opposite reaction, actually making the insomnia worse. sol Silva wrote: > sol, > what condition are you addressing with the L-Tryptophan or result(s) are you trying to get? > -richard- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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