Re: Response to demeaning column

[Guest guest]

Cricket, I'm not an attorney however, I believe that 'defamation of

Character is difficult (if not impossible) to argue against a group of

people.. It typically applies to a single individual's specific character.

I must admit, I am offended by that article as well. Part of me says--

Just let it go... another part says -- LETS GET EM' BACK! IT MIGHT BE

FUN!

I think the best way to " retaliate " --if that's what we want to do.. Is

have an LP who is qualified, apply for one of their open positions. If the

they are rejected... File an ADA based employment discrimination suit and

use 'the article' as the evidentiary exhibit. I think Bill Bradford would

make the perfect subject. If they do hire him, he can simply educate them.

We win either way.. Another option is to have a few LP's pretend to be a

large potential client.. On the phone we make overtones of a huge budget to

spend on their services. We then show up to meet them in person and

" SURPRISE " You get a lesson in disappointment! Better yet... We have

them fly to us.. )

I recommend that the people on this list send $10.00 to:

Hagan (LPA Vice President of Finance)

6601 Three Oaks Circle

Austin TX 78759

Specify the 'firmhand legal fund'.. If we collect more that $500.00 we

can have an experienced litigator look into the options. If the company

has Venture Capital funds (deep pockets) We may be able to gain a public

apology and raise enough funds for LPA to fund a public awareness program

across the country.. It starts by sending in your $10.00 to .. My

experience with this list is all talk, and NO GO... So I don't expect to see

getting many checks anytime soon... My $10.00 is in the mail..

I'm sure I'll see Crickets there too. Is yours?

Matt --- Lets-have-some-fun-at-their-expense -- Roloff

P.S. Davey, What are your thoughts?? Lets take this 1:1..

Response to demeaning column

> This column is a defemation (sp) of character if I ever saw one.

> Isn't there something we, as little people and an organization, drag

> this guy through the mud via the legal system??

>

> If we can't fight people when negative publicity like this happens,

> then what are we here for?

>

> This guys looks like a college kid who hasn't worked a hard day in

> his life.

>

> http://www.thefirmhand.com/tuccio_1_27.asp

>

> We need to take a stand on this kind of garbage or we will be walked

> on for the rest of our lives until doomsday.

>

> Cricket Hrabosky

> District 13 Director, LPA

>

>

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

> This column is a defemation (sp) of character if I ever saw one.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but this is my

understanding of the legal issue with defamation.

Defamation is written or spoken injury to a person or organization's

reputation. Libel is the written act of defamation, vs. slander, the

oral act of defamation.

What defamation is not.

Generally, a statement made about an undefinable group of people or

organizations cannot be defamation. Take, " midgets are crooks. " It's

defamatory enough, but there is no identifiable victim.

" Most of the midgets in the LPA " is getting closer, but it is still

hard to define the victim.

" <Insert an individual's name here>, a midget, is a crook. " Viola!

You now have an identifiable victim: A defined individual.

I take it you skipped the first paragraph in the article? The one

were it said the whole thing was intentional humor. While it is in

very poor taste, there is no law against poor taste, yet. And while

I would speak strongly the arguments against this type of humor, I

would at the same time strongly defend the right for the

individual's free speech to use it. The same right anyone has to

speak out against the things we disagree with, so far anyway.

If he had used the term " dwarf " or " little person " instead

of " midget " would you still have felt this way about the article. In

my 47 years I guess I have yet to figure out what it is about the

word " midget " that sets people off.

As I have proclaimed many times, just because you don't like

something or find it distasteful doesn't mean it should

automatically be forbidden. You want to fight it. Write an editorial

to the website with an opposing view. They probably won't publish

it, but you will have made your point to them.

Just my thoughts,

M.

Oh, and just to add this. If the LPA had kept its original

title, " Midgets of America " , there might have been more a case to

stand on... (pun intended).

[Guest guest]

I agree totally.

In fact, I think our next target should be Dave Barry. He has written

columns where his favorite word in the world seems to be " booger. " Anyone

that fascinated with the word " booger " probably picks his nose, and we

should write to the Miami Herald demanding that he be fired before he has

any more of a negative influence on children who are resisting their

parents' instructions to use a tissue. At the same time, we can also argue

that he is trying to hold back and entire business segment, because he has

written columns slamming the airline industry, as recently as last week.

Other potential targets:

Let's stuff Letterman into an undisclosed location somewhere, before

he does any more damage to the reputation of balding baby boomers from

Indiana. Because heaven knows, as many speeding tickets as he's gotten,

pretty soon the cops are going to engage in racial profiling and stop every

middle-aged white guy who might be speeding down the interstate. Not to

mention that everyone is going to think that all middle-aged white men make

generally pathetic attempts at being funny. (Okay, maybe that one is mostly

accurate ...)

Have Bobby Knight fired for the damage he's doing to the reputation of men

with Type-A personalities

Ask Jordan to resign because he's the butt of every joke about guys

hitting middle age and trying to prove they can still play with people half

their age. You can protest that if you're middle-aged, African-American, a

basketball player, recently had knee surgery ... take your pick.

As for that column ... it was intended to be entertainment, in the same way

that Stern intends his show to be entertainment. I don't laugh at

Stern's show and I certainly didn't laugh at this, but come on, who is going

to really take this seriously?

I am presently on the job market, and of course, I don't want this column to

be going through the interviewer's mind as he talks to me, but if he's the

type of person who thinks this passes for humorous entertainment, do I

really want to work for him anyway?

Just my two cents ...

[Guest guest]

Just because a man says " It doesn't represent my opinion or any of

the staff here " doesn't mean the column should be disregarded...He

obviously thought it was funny enough to put up. I'm not saying that

people are going to want little people as " household slaves " because

they read this column. I am just saying that it should have never

been put up because it is disrespectful no matter how you look at it.

I would be just as upset if they used " little person " or " dwarf "

rather than " midget " because we are still the butt of the joke. And

because we laugh, they think it is ok. The LPA was orginally

called " Midgets of America " but Barty said "

first and foremost, we are people...we are just smaller " Then came

the name Little People of America " . We are people...and we deserve to

be respected...and when we blow off columns like this....they keep

coming and coming....if you do not care then that's your

descision...but I want to see respect for us..... I was blessed to be

a dwarf....that's how I see it....this column shows absolutley no

respect for us at all.

[Guest guest]

Cricket --

This column was called to my attention by a 16-year-old who has

already written a hot e-mail to the author. I have forwarded his note

to me, plus contact information for TheFirmHand.com, to Cara Egan. I

think it's important that any official response from LPA come

directly from Cara. It's important that we set exactly the right

tone, since this guy obviously has a First Amendment right to write

whatever he likes. We should take the high ground -- which should be

pretty easy, since he's already occupying the muck.

As Matt and Maurice have already noted, this guy is not breaking the

law, he's just being a jerk.

That said, let me put on my other hat as the co-administrator of this

list and suggest that we not waste our time discussing the column

here (we know it's offensive!), and leave it to Cara and the rest of

the LPA board to take the next step.

Dan Kennedy

Internet services coordinator

Little People of America, Inc.

http://www.lpaonline.org

===

>This column is a defemation (sp) of character if I ever saw one.

>Isn't there something we, as little people and an organization, drag

>this guy through the mud via the legal system??

>

>If we can't fight people when negative publicity like this happens,

>then what are we here for?

>

>This guys looks like a college kid who hasn't worked a hard day in

>his life.

>

>http://www.thefirmhand.com/tuccio_1_27.asp

>

>We need to take a stand on this kind of garbage or we will be walked

>on for the rest of our lives until doomsday.

>

>Cricket Hrabosky

>District 13 Director, LPA

>

>

>

>===

>

[Guest guest]

I rejected the original message to the list from Matt Zinni

regarding this particular web site before I realized that others had

posted and were discussing it already. So my apologies to Matt, I

didn't mean to single you out, I was just trying to stop a crisis

before it got started, but it turns out I was too late. But here is

what I wrote to Matt Zinni, and would now like to say to the whole

list on this issue:

-----

As the administrator and a little person I feel it's not in the best

interests of the dwarfism list or LPs to discuss this too much on

here.

The site in question is probably best ignored for now. I'm not

saying its morally right for them to publish that stuff, but believe

me, I've fought battles with these types of people before and I've

seen this list fight battles with these types of people. And in my

experience, it does us more harm than good to use the list for this

purpose.

Anything a member of this list might send to this site, they would

have the right to publish that message on their site. And though you

are a good and intelligent writer who can write something

intelligent to their site, there are many other people on this list

who I do NOT want speaking on behalf of me as an LP. They may say

something that would be more dumb, harmful or embarrassing to dwarfs

than anything TFH would write, and it might get posted by the site

in order to make fun of us.

In addition, the dwarfism list has almost 1,800 subscribers. By

posting the URL to this site, we would be giving them

free " advertising " to 1,800 people. Sites like TFH don't care what

we think, they just like to stir up controversy in the name of free

speech, and would be ecstatic if we helped them do this.

I believe there need to be better, more official ways for LPs to

fight this stuff. I believe it may be a cause that LPA should take

up and fight. As you may or may not know, I will most likely be

appointed Director of Information Technology for LPA at this year's

National Conference. I promise you that I will do all in my power to

find out how LPA can best fight this. And when we find a good, well

thought-out strategy, I'll champion it within LPA and as part of my

role as Director of Information Technology. You can hang on to this

email as proof in writing of my promise.

-----

After writing this I read Dan Kennedy's response, and I agree with

him and think we're mostly saying the same thing. I believe the VP

of Public Relations of should be heavily involved in figuring out

the best way to deal with this stuff (whether it be Cara now or the

new VP of PR after this summer).

Anyway, there you have my position on the issue.

Dave

[Guest guest]

Dave-- I'm completely baffled!

I don't know what you mean?? Did I violate one of the (nine) rules of the

road? Was my message moderated?

Are you guys going to start moderating this list solely based on the fact

that you don't like the topic?

I think Dan's " word to the wise " on Sunday was sufficient. My email was an

attempt to lead people toward a productive and feasible solution.. How many

other messages have been 'moderated' without us being informed?

Matt, Suddenly-very-concerned-about-being-censored-on-this-list Roloff

Re: Response to demeaning column

> I rejected the original message to the list from Matt Zinni

> regarding this particular web site before I realized that others had

> posted and were discussing it already. So my apologies to Matt, I

> didn't mean to single you out, I was just trying to stop a crisis

> before it got started, but it turns out I was too late. But here is

> what I wrote to Matt Zinni, and would now like to say to the whole

> list on this issue:

>

> -----

> As the administrator and a little person I feel it's not in the best

> interests of the dwarfism list or LPs to discuss this too much on

> here.

>

> The site in question is probably best ignored for now. I'm not

> saying its morally right for them to publish that stuff, but believe

> me, I've fought battles with these types of people before and I've

> seen this list fight battles with these types of people. And in my

> experience, it does us more harm than good to use the list for this

> purpose.

>

> Anything a member of this list might send to this site, they would

> have the right to publish that message on their site. And though you

> are a good and intelligent writer who can write something

> intelligent to their site, there are many other people on this list

> who I do NOT want speaking on behalf of me as an LP. They may say

> something that would be more dumb, harmful or embarrassing to dwarfs

> than anything TFH would write, and it might get posted by the site

> in order to make fun of us.

>

> In addition, the dwarfism list has almost 1,800 subscribers. By

> posting the URL to this site, we would be giving them

> free " advertising " to 1,800 people. Sites like TFH don't care what

> we think, they just like to stir up controversy in the name of free

> speech, and would be ecstatic if we helped them do this.

>

> I believe there need to be better, more official ways for LPs to

> fight this stuff. I believe it may be a cause that LPA should take

> up and fight. As you may or may not know, I will most likely be

> appointed Director of Information Technology for LPA at this year's

> National Conference. I promise you that I will do all in my power to

> find out how LPA can best fight this. And when we find a good, well

> thought-out strategy, I'll champion it within LPA and as part of my

> role as Director of Information Technology. You can hang on to this

> email as proof in writing of my promise.

> -----

>

> After writing this I read Dan Kennedy's response, and I agree with

> him and think we're mostly saying the same thing. I believe the VP

> of Public Relations of should be heavily involved in figuring out

> the best way to deal with this stuff (whether it be Cara now or the

> new VP of PR after this summer).

>

> Anyway, there you have my position on the issue.

>

> Dave

>

>

>

> ===

>

[Guest guest]

It’s seems that you would know, M. Let me see if I have this straight

with a specific example.

When you, M, misquoted lee by saying she said she “makes fun of

little people and herself in her act,” when in fact she said “I talk

about you people” (a phrase which can include a whole host of

possibilities and in this very specific example it includes anything but

making fun of LPs as anyone who has actually seen her act is well aware)

it was defamation rather than libel because it was a written injury to a

specific definable person’s reputation rather than a spoken one.

Correct?

I think I’ve got it now and you’re certainly da man to wade in on this

topic.

Marty

Re: Response to demeaning column

> This column is a defemation (sp) of character if I ever saw one.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but this is my

understanding of the legal issue with defamation.

Defamation is written or spoken injury to a person or organization's

reputation. Libel is the written act of defamation, vs. slander, the

oral act of defamation.

What defamation is not.

Generally, a statement made about an undefinable group of people or

organizations cannot be defamation. Take, " midgets are crooks. " It's

defamatory enough, but there is no identifiable victim.

" Most of the midgets in the LPA " is getting closer, but it is still

hard to define the victim.

" <Insert an individual's name here>, a midget, is a crook. " Viola!

You now have an identifiable victim: A defined individual.

I take it you skipped the first paragraph in the article? The one

were it said the whole thing was intentional humor. While it is in

very poor taste, there is no law against poor taste, yet. And while

I would speak strongly the arguments against this type of humor, I

would at the same time strongly defend the right for the

individual's free speech to use it. The same right anyone has to

speak out against the things we disagree with, so far anyway.

If he had used the term " dwarf " or " little person " instead

of " midget " would you still have felt this way about the article. In

my 47 years I guess I have yet to figure out what it is about the

word " midget " that sets people off.

As I have proclaimed many times, just because you don't like

something or find it distasteful doesn't mean it should

automatically be forbidden. You want to fight it. Write an editorial

to the website with an opposing view. They probably won't publish

it, but you will have made your point to them.

Just my thoughts,

M.

Oh, and just to add this. If the LPA had kept its original

title, " Midgets of America " , there might have been more a case to

stand on... (pun intended).