Re: LPs in movies, TV, novels, media

[Guest guest]

Dear 70129-

I'm very pleased to hear that u are considering writing a book where the

main charachter is one of us. A dwarf. One thing that I think alot of LPs

and average height people might find intresting if u include in the book is

the use of the terms " midget " " dwarf " and " lp " . I notice towards the end of

your e-mail u said that u dont like to use the word dwarf because u think of

a guy with a beard or something like that. Well, believe it or not some LPs

do use that word when talking about themselves or other LPs. I do, I know my

brother does, and I know others who do. But, some LPs may get offended by

that word and only prefer the word Little Person or LP. And, alot of average

height people use the word midget when talking about us. But, alot of us

dont like that word at all. (I know I dont) So have u thought about talking

about the politically correct terms to use when talking about a person of

short stature in the book? That would be something that I think alot of LPs

and non LPs would find intresting and helpful.

-Tiara

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001 roger70129@... wrote:

> I'm an average person, a writer, and recently I've considered writing

> a near-future SF novel in which one of the major characters is an LP.

Have you been published? If so, what and where? Just curious.

> More importantly, I guess, is the issue of what really irks you about

> certain LP performances or roles in fiction.

The portrayal of most LPs in entertainment media is highly unrealistic,

but I don't get too " irked " about them. I guess I have rationalized that

that is the nature of entertainment media, and that most " real " people

don't buy into those kinds of stereotypes (and I speak only for myself on

this; I know there are others that strongly disagree).

What irks me, if anything, is not what is there, but what is *not* there,

i.e. realistic portrayals of LPs -- as well-adjusted, professional human

beings with average or above-average I.Q.s, who drive, have families and

friends that are mostly average-sized, and perhaps most importantly, whose

height is not a focal point (or *the* focal point) of the story. In other

words, just another integral character who happens to be a dwarf.

> (I'd like not to talk about fantasy fiction, as I've written a lot of

> it, and as a result the word " dwarf " to me means a short person with a

> heavy beard, a battle axe, a drinking problem, and a lust for gold.)

Sounds like a couple of real dwarfs I know (but I suppose that by " battle

axe " you mean the actual weapon, and not their wives

Actually, in many respects, I think that the classic fantasy portrayals of

dwarfs are often more positive and generous than most other genres. They

are heroic, they fight, they are knowledgeable and/or specialists in

specific areas, they make meaningful contributions to the protagonists'

goals, etc.

By the way, I think your decision to ask LPs for their opinions is

brilliant. An LP character written with the thoughts and personalities of

actual LPs in mind is, in my opinion, going to make your fiction come

across as more believeable and genuine to *all* of your readers (not just

your LP readers).

Peace,

Dave

B.S. Geology, Oregon State, 1986

(Go Beavs!)

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Bradford wrote:

> They are heroic, they fight, they are knowledgeable and/or specialists

> in specific areas, they make meaningful contributions to the

> protagonists' goals, etc.

I should clarify that when I say " they fight " , I mean that they " do battle

against the antagonists " , not " they argue amongst themselves " .

Peace,

Dave

[Guest guest]

Actually, I'm writing my dissertation on the representation of LPs in

literature and film of the 20th Century (and if it's published, it will be

the first full-length critical study on dwarfs!), and I've encountered a

number of very positive literary representations. Here's my top 5 list:

1) _Maybe the Moon_ by Armistead Maupin--great female dwarf,

fully-realized character, well-written story

2) _Stones from the River_by Ursula Hegi--another great female dwarf, one

of the best female characters in recent fiction, authentic WWII German setting

3) _Mendel's Dwarf_ by Simon Mawer--very sympathetic English male dwarf

scientist, well-written and poignant story

4) _The Tin Drum_ by Gunter Grass--quite long but interesting story about a

boy who stops growing, the book is much more positive in its treatment of

the main character than the film, though the film is pretty good, too

5) _Mysteries_ by Knut Hamsun--a Norwegian novel not too well known in this

country, but, as far as I know, readily available in translation; has a

very interesting LP character, arguably very central to the plot, called

Minutten

I'd be really interested in other people's Top 5 lists, and I'd be happy to

talk more about any of this stuff with anyone who'd like to discuss it.

At 07:03 PM 10/31/01 -0500, Small Shade wrote:

> LPs in movies, TV, novels, media

>

>

>I'm an average person, a writer, and recently I've considered writing

>a near-future SF novel in which one of the major characters is an LP.

>I began to wonder how people view the various LPs who have appeared

>in media fiction, whether the characters were realistic, interesting,

>and worthwhile, and I thought the best place to put out the question

>was here.

>

>Part of the problem is that I can't think of many LPs in any media

>fiction.

>

>-----

>

>I seem to recall that the main character in Gunter Grass's epic " The Tin

>Drum " was a dwarf. I read the book and saw the film about 20 years ago so I

>don't remember it very well. But here it is at the IMDb

>(http://us.imdb.com/Details?0078875) and from there you can also click

>directly to an Amazon book review. I believe that in the film, the LP,

>Oskar, was actually played by a boy all the way through, but I could be

>mistaken.

>

>Also, I never saw Willow so I can't comment on its quality, but Warwick

> is a LP and then there's Danny Devito who at 5'1 " might be some

>people's idea of a borderline LP. And I certainly don't have to mention

> Barty who was in so many things including Willow, Under the Rainbow,

>various and sundry TV dreck, you name it.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Actually, I'm writing my dissertation on the representation of LPs in

>literature and film of the 20th Century (and if it's published, it will be

>the first full-length critical study on dwarfs!), and I've encountered a

>number of very positive literary representations. Here's my top 5 list:

>

>1) _Maybe the Moon_ by Armistead Maupin--great female dwarf,

>fully-realized character, well-written story

>2) _Stones from the River_by Ursula Hegi--another great female dwarf, one

>of the best female characters in recent fiction, authentic WWII German setting

>3) _Mendel's Dwarf_ by Simon Mawer--very sympathetic English male dwarf

>scientist, well-written and poignant story

>4) _The Tin Drum_ by Gunter Grass--quite long but interesting story about

>a boy who stops growing, the book is much more positive in its treatment

>of the main character than the film, though the film is pretty good, too

>5) _Mysteries_ by Knut Hamsun--a Norwegian novel not too well known in

>this country, but, as far as I know, readily available in

>translation; has a very interesting LP character, arguably very central

>to the plot, called Minutten

>

>I'd be really interested in other people's Top 5 lists, and I'd be happy

>to talk more about any of this stuff with anyone who'd like to discuss it.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Actually, I'm writing my dissertation on the representation of LPs in

> literature and film of the 20th Century (and if it's published, it will be

> the first full-length critical study on dwarfs!), and I've encountered a

> number of very positive literary representations. Here's my top 5 list:

That is a great list...and anticipatory congratulations on your

dissertation. I will have to check out those books, and would love to get

hold of your paper after publication.

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/31/2001 1:37:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,

roger70129@... writes:

> <Have any

> other LP performances stuck out in your mind?>

Hunt in " Silverado, " although I'm not even sure that she is an LP. She

was depicted as a desirable, strong, and intelligent woman who acted upon her

convictions. Her size was only mentioned once in an almost off-handed way.

She went behind the bar and suddenly " grew " tall enough to serve him a drink.

Kline asked how she managed to do that and she showed him a platform

that she had had built. The scene was done with a light hand and a touch of

humor, then the subject was dropped as though her size was of no real

significance. Just like it should be in real life.

luthien

[Guest guest]

,

If I may add some personal observation on a few of your choices. I

haven't read them all but I have read 3 out of 5. (60%. In school, a

failing grade. In baseball, one heck of a great stat. Go Red Sox.)

>Here's my top 5 list:

> 1) _Maybe the Moon_ by Armistead Maupin--great female dwarf,

> fully-realized character, well-written story

Can't add anything you have already said. I love this book. Cady has

positive & negative qualities, she's loved & disliked by different

people (aren't we all?) and she is allowed to grow emotionally.

Things she did as a young woman for money, she realizes isn't a good

thing now.

> 2) _Stones from the River_by Ursula Hegi--another great female

>dwarf, one of the best female characters in recent fiction,

>authentic WWII German setting

Authentic? I don't think so. Not only were people with dwarfism taken

away by the Nazis, but so were their entire families. Dwarfism

was " proof " that there was race mixing somewhere in the history; a

case of the " sins " of the father. f Mengele was also fascinated

with Little People and did studies on him just as he did studies on

twins. Trudi would have never been able to walk around like she did

during this time. She would have been in hiding as well.

> 3) _Mendel's Dwarf_ by Simon Mawer--very sympathetic English male

dwarf scientist, well-written and poignant story

Yet another story about an LP written by an average sized person who

most probably has never met an LP. Benedict spends far too much time

in the book bemoaning his lot in life, his deformity, his ugliness

and other ways that Simon Mawer appears to think that we think about

ourselves. I don't know any LP who is filled with so much self-hate

that their body is such a prevailing thought. If so, my guess is they

probably have quite a few suicide attempts in their history providing

they haven't offed themself already.

There are some fabulous books out there -- Freak the Mighty. Don't

let the name throw you. It's a juvenille novel and it's fabulous.

Made into a movie where the LP character was portrayed by an average

sized actor in a prosthetic device. (Yes, I think this never should

have been done.) Skip the film.

And some books that are horrible yet made great films -- The Dork of

Cork (blech -- hated the book) was made into ie Starlight, the

most realistic portrayal of a person with dwarfism I have ever seen.

If you are lucky, find the unrated version. If you are super-lucky,

find the European version. These versions have more information about

ie's experiences, especially with his wife.

Rose

[Guest guest]

Hi Rose, thanks so much for responding to my post. I appreciate the tip

about the European version of _ie Starlight_; I only know the

American version. If you'll indulge me, though, I'd like to defend the two

" Top 5 " choices you took issue with, mainly as I wouldn't want to deter

anyone from reading these fine pieces of writing.

First I'll address _Stones from the River_. As a Germanist with

sub-specialties in the Holocaust and Disability Theory, I am only too aware

of the fate of any who were " other, " including LPs, and it is indeed true

that Trudi Montag would probably not have been able to be so free. Still,

I remarked not upon a narrative license Hegi might have taken a bit far,

but rather upon the " authentic WWII setting. " The details about people and

life in a small German town during that period, similar to Hegi's own

upbringing, are culturally accurate and, I think, quite well-rendered. On

top of that, I love the character of Trudi, even if her story is very much

a fiction.

As far as the character of Benedict in _Mendel's Dwarf_, it is certainly

true that he is beset with self-hatred, particularly with respect to his

body, but I don't think that's a problem limited to this one

fictional LP. Look at anorexics, for example. Maybe Mawer didn't know

any dwarfs before writing the book, and that's not to his credit, but it's

an erudite, if very sad, story that is worth the read.

Thanks for reading my stuff; I hope I'm not taking up too much space

here. Rose, feel free to email me privately to talk more about this--you

are obviously very well read! And thanks so much to everyone for sending

me such interesting suggestions and sources of further reading. Writing a

dissertation is an endless-seeming process, and all support does me a world

of good.

Thanks again,

12:20 PM 11/1/01 +0000, RMBJustice@... wrote:

>,

>

>If I may add some personal observation on a few of your choices. I

>haven't read them all but I have read 3 out of 5. (60%. In school, a

>failing grade. In baseball, one heck of a great stat. Go Red Sox.)

>

> >Here's my top 5 list:

> > 1) _Maybe the Moon_ by Armistead Maupin--great female dwarf,

> > fully-realized character, well-written story

>

>Can't add anything you have already said. I love this book. Cady has

>positive & negative qualities, she's loved & disliked by different

>people (aren't we all?) and she is allowed to grow emotionally.

>Things she did as a young woman for money, she realizes isn't a good

>thing now.

>

> > 2) _Stones from the River_by Ursula Hegi--another great female

> >dwarf, one of the best female characters in recent fiction,

> >authentic WWII German setting

>

>Authentic? I don't think so. Not only were people with dwarfism taken

>away by the Nazis, but so were their entire families. Dwarfism

>was " proof " that there was race mixing somewhere in the history; a

>case of the " sins " of the father. f Mengele was also fascinated

>with Little People and did studies on him just as he did studies on

>twins. Trudi would have never been able to walk around like she did

>during this time. She would have been in hiding as well.

>

>

> > 3) _Mendel's Dwarf_ by Simon Mawer--very sympathetic English male

>dwarf scientist, well-written and poignant story

>

>Yet another story about an LP written by an average sized person who

>most probably has never met an LP. Benedict spends far too much time

>in the book bemoaning his lot in life, his deformity, his ugliness

>and other ways that Simon Mawer appears to think that we think about

>ourselves. I don't know any LP who is filled with so much self-hate

>that their body is such a prevailing thought. If so, my guess is they

>probably have quite a few suicide attempts in their history providing

>they haven't offed themself already.

>

>There are some fabulous books out there -- Freak the Mighty. Don't

>let the name throw you. It's a juvenille novel and it's fabulous.

>Made into a movie where the LP character was portrayed by an average

>sized actor in a prosthetic device. (Yes, I think this never should

>have been done.) Skip the film.

>

>And some books that are horrible yet made great films -- The Dork of

>Cork (blech -- hated the book) was made into ie Starlight, the

>most realistic portrayal of a person with dwarfism I have ever seen.

>If you are lucky, find the unrated version. If you are super-lucky,

>find the European version. These versions have more information about

>ie's experiences, especially with his wife.

>

>Rose

>

>

>

>===

>