RE: Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

December 16, 2000

Years ago from birth to 10 yrs old I lived in Northern Ny and was always sick

from Nov thru April with all the childhood ailments of then ( chickenpox,

measles, mumps) and always got strept, ear infections, and tonsillitis with

them.....spent so much of winters at home in bed ..my mom became my teacher

those months. Anyway , we moved further downstate when I was 10 and I didnt

get sick in winter for the next 7 yrs...(went from heating oil to gas

furnace?). I never knew why...but my sr yr of HS I got sick at slightest

thing...wash my hair, ear infection....tonsillitis constantly.....had tonsils

out at 20...moved to AZ soon after......I was fine here for about 6 months

...then allergies and sinus infections....my Dad has always had allergies and

sinus and also has had RA since his 30s.....see ...I look back at all this

and think there is a genetic predisposition and also environmental......now

through the last 20 years I have been using allergy meds , get shots,

etc..and developed allergic asthma....I always tend to get infections from

surgeries anymore, and about 5 yrs ago suddenly had rashes on chest , stomach

, and back and reactive airway breathing.......those were my first

symptoms......and suddenly I couldn't walk far ...w/o hurting so bad in my

lower back and hips........looking back at all this ...it took so long it

seemed to finally figure out what was wrong......a=nd then to get me where I

felt better ...Sad part is at one time a Dr jokingly said I needed to go out

in middle of ocean and live naked on a boat....get away from pollution and

man made chemicals etc....truth is I think we are all overexposed anymore

and throughout our lives and didnt know it......My RD says he thinks the

environment really does play into it.....I'm sure it does...anyway just my 2

cents worth....Judy in AZ

December 16, 2000

Judy

I must agree with you in so many instances.....i feel that we can all go

back in our medical & personal histories & see this disease evolve thru

events, illnesses, exposures. i call it pieces to a puzzle, and until you

find that person who is willing to put all the pieces to the puzzle into

place, including corners, we do not get a dx. until that time, we get

specialists, tests, psychiatrists, medications to treat symptoms, not the

diease itself. it is a long & arduous road & some of us don't make it the

entire route.......Hang in there, hopefully a train is coming down the track

that will bring us all to the same depot.

debs in FL

December 16, 2000

-

I agree with you. I think vulnerability from some

previous infection- stress-environment along with

genetic predisposition can cause RA and other

inflammatory disorders. I think I mentioned that I am

one of a set of identical twins. Sharon has no sign of

any rheumatoid arthritis - but has some measurable

allergic asthma- which is also auto-immune. My first

major flares - although my doctors discussed the

possibility as early as late high school and college-

took place in my first year in law school - that first

year was one of major stress. I didn't have a positive

Rheumatoid factor until about 11 years later right after

my dad and an uncle I was close to died. I trace the

beginning of the RA all the way back to a mono type

infection back in 8th grade and then a major problem

with flu - remember the Hong Kong flu epidemic- I was in

bed for almost a month. Sharon never picked up mono and

had only a minor case of flu.

I read with interest the article on heart disease and RA

posted here and say thank you. I am going to discuss

Enbrel with my rheumatologist next time I see her (

Remicade is not paid for by my insurance and the article

sounded pretty positive about Enbrel). Based on my own

research and confirmed by the article, I am convinced

while I have remained pretty mobile on MTX, plaquenil,

and prednisone, that they (prednisone and MTX) have or

may be doing damage to my cardiovascular system. While I

haven't had HBP or cholesterol problems, I think the DVT

and embolisms were caused by the combination of estrogen

(estradiol) and MTX and prednisone- and whatever other

weird chemistry was going on in my body at the time. I

have been on prednisone and MTX varying doses for about

8yrs. As the article pointed out - prednisone can cause

eventual plaque in the blood vessels and MTX can cause a

rise in homocysteine levels which can create a risk of

clots. Its a question I am going to pose to my primary

and rheumatologist. The question was never discussed at

Mayo but I am tempted to contact hematologist and

rheumatologist there and see what there experience has

been.

Thanks again,

December 16, 2000

I love the " double A " personality description. I believe

that has called it having a " type A personality

in a Type Z body. " How true!!! Of course, I would never

fit that description - much ;-)!

December 16, 2000

with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

think it was an infection an ear infection belive it

or not. my first one was when i was 12. just before i

was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

year before about 9 in total the last left me in bed

for a week with the side of my head swollen and unable

to walk or eat

--- Patsy3 <Patsy3@...> wrote:

> Hello ,

>

> I agree with your " multiple facet " theory of

> rheumatic illness. One of the

> " Head Honcho " rheumatologists at my clinic jokes

> that many of his patients

> are " double A " personalities. Even though he is

> just joking, I would not be

> a bit surprised if there is not a bit of truth to

> his observation. I was

> born to laid back parents, but hated a messy house

> and chaos by the time I

> was three or four years old. It is now impossible

> for me to keep everything

> in order, but my brain still reacts negatively to

> clutter.

>

> And yes, , I had forgotten about playing tennis

> in Florida in my youth,

> and never leaving the courts as DDT mist covered

> everything, me included!

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Matsumura [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:37 PM

> egroups

> Subject: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental

> Triggers

>

> Hello, Patsy and a!

>

> This topic fascinates me. It also worries me because

> I was three classes

> short of a chemistry major in college and was

> exposed to a lot of nasty

> chemicals in my laboratory work. I was aware of

> a's crop duster

> exposure, and your revelation about you and your

> son, Patsy, gave me the

> chills. Although I was never standing under a crop

> duster, I was in the

> vicinity of many a mosquito abatement truck in my

> youth.

>

> After reading a lot about rheumatic diseases for the

> last four years, I

> strongly believe that one must first have a genetic

> predisposition to the

> disease (either inherited or via a mutation) and

> then exposure to one or

> more environmental triggers (and not necessarily at

> the same time). I don't

> believe there is one single cause of these diseases;

> I believe there are

> many. Stress (physical and emotional) can be

> considered an environmental

> trigger, too. And every individual's case is unique

> as they.

>

> What I think happens is that the trigger or triggers

> assault your immune

> system either when it is vulnerable or by

> overwhelming it, a cycle of

> destruction begins, and your body just can't correct

> itself. I also think

> that it can be a period of years before you become

> symptomatic. Perhaps your

> body is fighting for balance and another trigger

> comes along and - WHAMMO!

>

> Most studies of RA in identical twins show the

> concordance to be between 15

> and 30 percent. The prevalence of RA in the general

> population in the US is

> 1%. Obviously, there is a genetic factor, but genes

> alone cannot explain the

> onset.

>

> I recently bought a book entitled " Rheumatoid

> Arthritis: Frontiers in

> Pathogenesis and Treatment " (Edited by Firestein,

> Panayi, and Wollheim;

> Oxford University Press; 2000). They summarize very

> nicely what I believe to

> be true:

>

> " It is conceivable that, in the genetically

> predisposed individual, more

> than one environmental noxa, infectious or not,

> triggers the development of

> RA by initiating an immunopathologic reaction

> leading to a cascade of events

> initially characterized by inflammation

> (predominantly at the articular

> level) and later by joint destruction. If an

> infectious agent (not

> necessarily the entire organism, but a microbial

> product) is involved in RA,

> it is likely to be through molecular mimicry of

> specific microbial peptides

> with autologous molecules such as the rheumatoid

> epitope or

> cartilage-derived epitopes rather than by actual

> conventional seeding of the

> joint cavity and it structures. " (page 21)

>

> Too, because women of childbearing age make up the

> vast majority of

> rheumatic disease sufferers, hormones also probably

> enter into the equation.

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " a " <aA@...>

> < egroups>

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:13 AM

> Subject: Re: [ ] Jeanette, , and

> everyone

>

> > Patsy,

> > I was rained on by a crop duster on more than one

> occasion. I was raised

> on

> > a blueberry farm, and was in the fields when the

> sprayer came. This

> > happened a few times when I was 10-15, but I

> didn't develop RA until after

> a

> > surgical procedure on my knee when I was 20.

> Connected? Could be, but I

> > don't think so. I can see where chemical exposure

> causes RA because it is

> a

> > foreign substance, and the immune system attacks

> anything that is foreign.

> > In order for a man to pass this foreign substance,

> it would have to be in

> > the sperm. I have read that Gulf War Syndrome is

> connected to RA and

> > Chronic Fatigue. I would suspect that our Vietnam

> Vets also were exposed

> to

> > many bacterial agents and RA could be caused by an

> infection. There are

> > many Vets that have unexplained infections.

> >

> > a

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: Patsy3 <Patsy3@...>

> > < egroups>

> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:31 PM

> > Subject: RE: [ ] Jeanette, , and

> everyone

> >

> > > Hi ,

> > >

> > > Was 's father by any chance exposed to a

> lot of chemicals before

> >

> > > was born? My sister-in-law in Missouri has a

> young man in her family

> who

> > > has JRA that is also in his lungs. They were

> told early on that it had

> > been

> > > caused by the father's exposure to chemicals in

> Vietnam. Many of the

> > people

> > > in the RA Clinic I go to feel their problem

> started out with chemical

> > > exposure. A crop duster dumped a load of

> chemicals on me and my baby

> when

> > > he was almost two. At the age of five he

> developed Type 1 Diabetes and

> > much

> > > later I developed RA. Coincidence? Maybe, but

> maybe not!

> > >

> > > Patsy

> > > --Original Message-----

> > > From: 12341234@...

> [mailto:12341234@...]

> > > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:34 AM

> > > egroups

> > > Subject: Re: [ ] Jeanette, , and

> everyone

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > i tend to forget that the new people in the

> group don't know me very

> well

>

=== message truncated ===

_______________________________________________________

December 16, 2000

with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

think it was an infection an ear infection belive it

or not. my first one was when i was 12. just before i

was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

year before about 9 in total the last left me in bed

for a week with the side of my head swollen and unable

to walk or eat.. i don't know about chemical triggers

but i spent a lot of time swimming in lake ontario

lol

rhoda

_______________________________________________________

December 16, 2000

Hello ,

I agree with your " multiple facet " theory of rheumatic illness. One of the

" Head Honcho " rheumatologists at my clinic jokes that many of his patients

are " double A " personalities. Even though he is just joking, I would not be

a bit surprised if there is not a bit of truth to his observation. I was

born to laid back parents, but hated a messy house and chaos by the time I

was three or four years old. It is now impossible for me to keep everything

in order, but my brain still reacts negatively to clutter.

And yes, , I had forgotten about playing tennis in Florida in my youth,

and never leaving the courts as DDT mist covered everything, me included!

-----Original Message-----

From: Matsumura [mailto:Matsumura_Clan@...]

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:37 PM

egroups

Subject: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

Hello, Patsy and a!

This topic fascinates me. It also worries me because I was three classes

short of a chemistry major in college and was exposed to a lot of nasty

chemicals in my laboratory work. I was aware of a's crop duster

exposure, and your revelation about you and your son, Patsy, gave me the

chills. Although I was never standing under a crop duster, I was in the

vicinity of many a mosquito abatement truck in my youth.

After reading a lot about rheumatic diseases for the last four years, I

strongly believe that one must first have a genetic predisposition to the

disease (either inherited or via a mutation) and then exposure to one or

more environmental triggers (and not necessarily at the same time). I don't

believe there is one single cause of these diseases; I believe there are

many. Stress (physical and emotional) can be considered an environmental

trigger, too. And every individual's case is unique as they.

What I think happens is that the trigger or triggers assault your immune

system either when it is vulnerable or by overwhelming it, a cycle of

destruction begins, and your body just can't correct itself. I also think

that it can be a period of years before you become symptomatic. Perhaps your

body is fighting for balance and another trigger comes along and - WHAMMO!

Most studies of RA in identical twins show the concordance to be between 15

and 30 percent. The prevalence of RA in the general population in the US is

1%. Obviously, there is a genetic factor, but genes alone cannot explain the

onset.

I recently bought a book entitled " Rheumatoid Arthritis: Frontiers in

Pathogenesis and Treatment " (Edited by Firestein, Panayi, and Wollheim;

Oxford University Press; 2000). They summarize very nicely what I believe to

be true:

" It is conceivable that, in the genetically predisposed individual, more

than one environmental noxa, infectious or not, triggers the development of

RA by initiating an immunopathologic reaction leading to a cascade of events

initially characterized by inflammation (predominantly at the articular

level) and later by joint destruction. If an infectious agent (not

necessarily the entire organism, but a microbial product) is involved in RA,

it is likely to be through molecular mimicry of specific microbial peptides

with autologous molecules such as the rheumatoid epitope or

cartilage-derived epitopes rather than by actual conventional seeding of the

joint cavity and it structures. " (page 21)

Too, because women of childbearing age make up the vast majority of

rheumatic disease sufferers, hormones also probably enter into the equation.

----- Original Message -----

From: " a " <aA@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:13 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Jeanette, , and everyone

> Patsy,

> I was rained on by a crop duster on more than one occasion. I was raised

on

> a blueberry farm, and was in the fields when the sprayer came. This

> happened a few times when I was 10-15, but I didn't develop RA until after

a

> surgical procedure on my knee when I was 20. Connected? Could be, but I

> don't think so. I can see where chemical exposure causes RA because it is

a

> foreign substance, and the immune system attacks anything that is foreign.

> In order for a man to pass this foreign substance, it would have to be in

> the sperm. I have read that Gulf War Syndrome is connected to RA and

> Chronic Fatigue. I would suspect that our Vietnam Vets also were exposed

to

> many bacterial agents and RA could be caused by an infection. There are

> many Vets that have unexplained infections.

>

> a

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Patsy3 <Patsy3@...>

> < egroups>

> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:31 PM

> Subject: RE: [ ] Jeanette, , and everyone

>

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Was 's father by any chance exposed to a lot of chemicals before

>

> > was born? My sister-in-law in Missouri has a young man in her family

who

> > has JRA that is also in his lungs. They were told early on that it had

> been

> > caused by the father's exposure to chemicals in Vietnam. Many of the

> people

> > in the RA Clinic I go to feel their problem started out with chemical

> > exposure. A crop duster dumped a load of chemicals on me and my baby

when

> > he was almost two. At the age of five he developed Type 1 Diabetes and

> much

> > later I developed RA. Coincidence? Maybe, but maybe not!

> >

> > Patsy

> > --Original Message-----

> > From: 12341234@... [mailto:12341234@...]

> > Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 6:34 AM

> > egroups

> > Subject: Re: [ ] Jeanette, , and everyone

> >

> > ,

> >

> > i tend to forget that the new people in the group don't know me very

well

> > cause i tend to be very quiet, i do have my days though.

> >

> > We live in mobile alabama. we moved here over a year ago so we could be

> with

> > my boyfriend and his family. that part is great.the schools here suck

> > though.

> > i have a lawsuit going against the county school board because they

won't

> > identify jesse as being disabled. they have never had a child with JRA

and

> > related lung disease. basicly they are as backwoods as they come around

> > here,

> > they are getting better since i got the lawyer though. he he.

> >

> > a little back ground info on us. in our house there is me of course,

jason

> > my

> > boyfriend, the kids, -13, -11, -10, -6 and

-4.

> i

> > joined this group about 10 months ago to help me with jesse's disease of

> > which he has had since he was 4. he is not doing so good right now but

he

> is

> > strong and will pull through this season just like he has before.

> >

> > After the problem with robert when he was 4, they don't do anything with

> my

> > kids without me being there. i get very hot tempered when they try to

play

> > me

> > like that. If the kids want me or jason's mom or their dad(who lives in

> fl)

> > to be there for a procedure then thats what they get. they do understand

> > that

> > only one person but they can pick who it is. i will never let my kids

> suffer

> > emotionally like robert did that day.

> >

> > there a little info on us. looks like iam gonna have a long couple of

> days.

> > i

> > will have 3 home the rest of the week. jared of course cause he isn't in

> > school yet. jesse is home cause he still isn't feeling to good and

> > got

> > suspended from school yesterday. A kid pushed him into a high school

> student

> > and the hs student grabbed robert around the neck and punched him so

> robert

> > beat the hs student to a pulp. i don't like it when he fights but i have

> > always told him defend yourself and he said he kind of lost it cause the

> hs

> > students always pick on the middle school students during PE and i don't

> > know

> > why the school mixes high school and middle school classes together. any

> way

> > he is home for today and tomorrow and he will make me nuts cause he will

> be

> > bored.

> >

> > well enough of me got a little one to feed breakfast too.

> >

> > thanks and take care

> > shelly

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Change subscription options:

December 16, 2000

Hi ,

I have an unusual cholesterol history -- very low HDL and LDL -- at one time

total of both was under 120. However, I have high triglicerides (sp). I

read somewhere that this can be caused by high homocysteine levels in the

blood. I get B12 shots often and low B12 is possibly a clue also. Have you

encountered this phenomenon in your readings? None of my friends have this

situation with their chemistry panels.

Your " twin " history is interesting. More than anything else, I am sure that

infection had something to do with my fibro and eventual RA. I have

mentioned on this forum before that at one point I could hardly walk early

in the day and a penicillin shot for an abscessed tooth took away the

arthritis almost immediately. I mentioned this to a UCLA rheumatologist,

who was visiting my clinic, and he told me he had encountered this before.

He said that timing is crucial when this happens. In other words, the tooth

abcess happened in a close time period to the beginning of arthritis pangs.

Sharing our histories on this forum should be of great value to

rheumatologists, if they take the time to read it!

Enbrel has helped me so much. Some supersitious part of me is almost afraid

to sing its praises in case I might be " that one " with serious side effects.

At least I don't take any cortisone-based medicines with the Enbrel. Good

luck to you.

Patsy

-----Original Message-----

From: k.j.choate@... [mailto:k.j.choate@...]

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:46 PM

egroups

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

-

I agree with you. I think vulnerability from some

previous infection- stress-environment along with

genetic predisposition can cause RA and other

inflammatory disorders. I think I mentioned that I am

one of a set of identical twins. Sharon has no sign of

any rheumatoid arthritis - but has some measurable

allergic asthma- which is also auto-immune. My first

major flares - although my doctors discussed the

possibility as early as late high school and college-

took place in my first year in law school - that first

year was one of major stress. I didn't have a positive

Rheumatoid factor until about 11 years later right after

my dad and an uncle I was close to died. I trace the

beginning of the RA all the way back to a mono type

infection back in 8th grade and then a major problem

with flu - remember the Hong Kong flu epidemic- I was in

bed for almost a month. Sharon never picked up mono and

had only a minor case of flu.

I read with interest the article on heart disease and RA

posted here and say thank you. I am going to discuss

Enbrel with my rheumatologist next time I see her

Remicade is not paid for by my insurance and the article

sounded pretty positive about Enbrel). Based on my own

research and confirmed by the article, I am convinced

while I have remained pretty mobile on MTX, plaquenil,

and prednisone, that they (prednisone and MTX) have or

may be doing damage to my cardiovascular system. While I

haven't had HBP or cholesterol problems, I think the DVT

and embolisms were caused by the combination of estrogen

(estradiol) and MTX and prednisone- and whatever other

weird chemistry was going on in my body at the time. I

have been on prednisone and MTX varying doses for about

8yrs. As the article pointed out - prednisone can cause

eventual plaque in the blood vessels and MTX can cause a

rise in homocysteine levels which can create a risk of

clots. Its a question I am going to pose to my primary

and rheumatologist. The question was never discussed at

Mayo but I am tempted to contact hematologist and

rheumatologist there and see what there experience has

been.

Thanks again,

Our websites: http://rheumatoid.arthritis.freehosting.net/

http://www.rasupport.webprovider.com/

Change subscription options:

December 16, 2000

Hi Rhoda,

Are you old enough to have been hooked on the Rhoda show years ago? I have

never known anyone named Rhoda, but I sure like the TV star Rhoda!

My son just told me this past week that he has to have surgery on his ears.

He lives right across the street from the Pacific Ocean in Huntington Beach,

CA and surfs almost daily. He never had an ear infection as a child, so I

feel certain his problems with his ears stem from the bacteria in the water.

Of all the coastal cities in southern California, one hears more about sewer

leaks in Huntington Beach than other towns in the area. He wears ear plugs

now, but damage can't be reversed without surgery. His Doc says that even

clean water can cause problems with ears. with excessive exposure.

Patsy

-----Original Message-----

From: rhoda kendry [mailto:plantjunkie@...]

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:51 PM

egroups

Subject: RE: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

think it was an infection an ear infection belive it

or not. my first one was when i was 12. just before i

was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

year before about 9 in total the last left me in bed

for a week with the side of my head swollen and unable

to walk or eat.. i don't know about chemical triggers

but i spent a lot of time swimming in lake ontario

lol

rhoda

_______________________________________________________

December 16, 2000

Rhoda,

I had numerous ear infections as a child. I never had any in adulthood

though. What you described must have been horribly painful. Sorry about

that.

I did a ton of swimming in Lake Michigan, and, yes, I believe that qualifies

as exposure to chemicals and infectious agents!

----- Original Message -----

From: " rhoda kendry " <plantjunkie@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:50 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

> with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

> think it was an infection an ear infection belive it

> or not. my first one was when i was 12. just before i

> was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

> year before about 9 in total the last left me in bed

> for a week with the side of my head swollen and unable

> to walk or eat.. i don't know about chemical triggers

> but i spent a lot of time swimming in lake ontario

> lol

>

> rhoda

December 16, 2000

me too

did you know that you can develop pictures from the

water in those lakes. saw it done on discovery

channel a year or 2 ago. i used to swim in

mississauga right in between 2 oil refineries.

texaco is gone now and about to become a park but

petro can is still there making a mess.

rhoda

--- Matsumura <Matsumura_Clan@...> wrote:

> Rhoda,

>

> I had numerous ear infections as a child. I never

> had any in adulthood

> though. What you described must have been horribly

> painful. Sorry about

> that.

>

> I did a ton of swimming in Lake Michigan, and, yes,

> I believe that qualifies

> as exposure to chemicals and infectious agents!

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " rhoda kendry " <plantjunkie@...>

> < egroups>

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:50 PM

> Subject: RE: [ ] Patsy and

> a/Environmental Triggers

>

> > with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

> > think it was an infection an ear infection belive

> it

> > or not. my first one was when i was 12. just

> before i

> > was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

> > year before about 9 in total the last left me in

> bed

> > for a week with the side of my head swollen and

> unable

> > to walk or eat.. i don't know about chemical

> triggers

> > but i spent a lot of time swimming in lake ontario

> > lol

> >

> > rhoda

>

> -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor

>

> Our websites:

> http://rheumatoid.arthritis.freehosting.net/

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> Change subscription options:

>

_______________________________________________________

December 16, 2000

yes i'm old enough lol

i'm 32 i remember watching the show it was great.

water and ears don't mix that's for sure. just as a side note i

found a good cure for outer ear infections Tea Tree oil but it can

burn depending on the stregnth of the oil but it really works i

haven't had an ear infection in almost 2 years now yippeeeee!!!!

rhoda

> Hi Rhoda,

>

> Are you old enough to have been hooked on the Rhoda show years

ago? I have

> never known anyone named Rhoda, but I sure like the TV star Rhoda!

>

> My son just told me this past week that he has to have surgery on

his ears.

> He lives right across the street from the Pacific Ocean in

Huntington Beach,

> CA and surfs almost daily. He never had an ear infection as a

child, so I

> feel certain his problems with his ears stem from the bacteria in

the water.

> Of all the coastal cities in southern California, one hears more

about sewer

> leaks in Huntington Beach than other towns in the area. He wears

ear plugs

> now, but damage can't be reversed without surgery. His Doc says

that even

> clean water can cause problems with ears. with excessive exposure.

>

> Patsy

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhoda kendry [mailto:plantjunkie@y...]

> Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:51 PM

> egroups

> Subject: RE: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

>

> with me i don't think it was a chenical trigger i

> think it was an infection an ear infection belive it

> or not. my first one was when i was 12. just before i

> was diagnosed i had continuos ear infections for a

> year before about 9 in total the last left me in bed

> for a week with the side of my head swollen and unable

> to walk or eat.. i don't know about chemical triggers

> but i spent a lot of time swimming in lake ontario

> lol

>

> rhoda

>

> _______________________________________________________

>

December 16, 2000

:

I really like your description of Type A personality living in a Type Z body.

Hey, I identify. Of course my Type A has taken a back seat though. I used

to push and push and push until I dropped. And then I really dropped. Got

so so sick with asthma, new job, wedding plans, step daughter causing

problems etc. I finally got the RA, Fibro, Sleep Apnea, IBS, Acid Reflux etc.

all around the same time. Boy did I come to a screaching halt. It has

turned my life around and my priorities. I spend alot of time resting now

when my parents are having a heart attack or a stroke or cardiac arresst or

something. That will pull you back up onto your feet again.

When I first saw my rheumie, he said I'll bet you do everything perfect, and

do this, that and the other........ It must be a prerequisite to having RA

and Fibro. The busier you are, the more apt you are to get it......so it

seems.

My persective. Jeannette

December 16, 2000

, No, no one else in the family got sick like I did ......and yes I think

the oil heat and an older house had a lot to do with it. I know now in Az I

have to have ac in the summer ..no evap cooling...and no gas heat ...must be

electric or I get sick from allergies and URIs...I also use an electric

blanket at night pulled up to chin...helps a lot. My son and dtr both have

had ear infections all their lives...each still get one or two a yr still (d,

19;s,15).Can only imagine if they were raised in cold winters of east how

sick they would have been....heredity plays a big role...so does

environment.......Judy in AZ

December 16, 2000

Yikes, Rhoda! I didn't know that. It's scary, but I believe it.

----- Original Message -----

From: " rhoda kendry " <plantjunkie@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 10:15 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

> me too

> did you know that you can develop pictures from the

> water in those lakes. saw it done on discovery

> channel a year or 2 ago. i used to swim in

> mississauga right in between 2 oil refineries.

> texaco is gone now and about to become a park but

> petro can is still there making a mess.

> rhoda

December 16, 2000

This Double A personality is an interesting observation. I told my

rheumetologist last visit that I am a Type A personality stuck in a Type Z

body! Guess I'm not alone. Until the illnesses just got to be too much

RA, asthma, repeat hernia, acid reflux, hypothyroidism, anemia, sleep

apnea, clotting disorder, residual symptoms of a brain hemorrhage and

craniotomy) I ran everything-that is PTO, committees, organizations. I did

play tennis too-not well but we had fun, now we play cards instead. I

wonder what it means-maybe that someone less motivated would not persevere.

That's what my Neurosurgeon told me after my stroke-everyone recovers

somewhat but only those who push go farther. Interesting. I am limited and

did cave in with cleaning people but I don't want to give anything up-still

do crafts, have lots of animals and some volunteer positions. I hate asking

for help! Now my primary care doctor retired and I feel lost.

Guess I should address the original topic too-triggers. Guess mine would

have been the constant assault on my body. This surgery in January will be

my 6th major abdominal surgery in 6 years. Also a craniotomy and several

very serious infections. Stress-I've got a bit- 5 children - one of whom

got involved with drugs and alcohol and we sent him away to a private

facility/High School till he graduated. We moved 6 years ago too. I could

go on.

An aside-my son, same one as above, had several very serious flares of

Systemic Onset JRA when he was between 3 and 6. He has been fine since and

had no permanent damage. At the time of the first my grandmother died. Dan

was very close to her. I talked with his rheumetologist about this and how

hard it hit him and was told by him " 10 years ago I would have laughed but

now I know better-a trigger " . Dan did work it all out for himself and one

time when we were driving to the hospital and he was looking at the clouds

he said " I know know where Grammy is. She is with Jesus, she lives in a

beautiful house. When she got there, Jesus took her in his arms and said

'It's all right, I'll take care of you now' " Out of the mouths of babes!

Temple

Kuddle Kritters Farm

3 Fox Haven Way

Chelmsford, MA 01824

dat2352@...

http://www.homestead.com/kuddlekrittersfarm/index.html

http://www/homestead.com/kuddlekraft/index.html

December 16, 2000

I like your " Type A personality stuck in a Type Z body " expression very

much, . I think it would make an excellent title for an essay or book.

With the accident and everything that followed, your body was most

definitely under siege. You now have so many complicated health issues, but

it really sounds as if you are much too strong to give up or give in. That's

fantastic.

That's very interesting about Dan and his JRA following the loss of his

great-grandmother. What a wonderful way he finally comforted himself! So,

how old is Dan now? And he never had any other arthritis symptoms since the

age of six? Just curious.

----- Original Message -----

From: " " <dat2352@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:12 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

> This Double A personality is an interesting observation. I told my

> rheumetologist last visit that I am a Type A personality stuck in a Type Z

> body! Guess I'm not alone. Until the illnesses just got to be too much

> RA, asthma, repeat hernia, acid reflux, hypothyroidism, anemia, sleep

> apnea, clotting disorder, residual symptoms of a brain hemorrhage and

> craniotomy) I ran everything-that is PTO, committees, organizations. I

did

> play tennis too-not well but we had fun, now we play cards instead. I

> wonder what it means-maybe that someone less motivated would not

persevere.

> That's what my Neurosurgeon told me after my stroke-everyone recovers

> somewhat but only those who push go farther. Interesting. I am limited

and

> did cave in with cleaning people but I don't want to give anything

up-still

> do crafts, have lots of animals and some volunteer positions. I hate

asking

> for help! Now my primary care doctor retired and I feel lost.

> Guess I should address the original topic too-triggers. Guess mine would

> have been the constant assault on my body. This surgery in January will

be

> my 6th major abdominal surgery in 6 years. Also a craniotomy and several

> very serious infections. Stress-I've got a bit- 5 children - one of whom

> got involved with drugs and alcohol and we sent him away to a private

> facility/High School till he graduated. We moved 6 years ago too. I

could

> go on.

> An aside-my son, same one as above, had several very serious flares of

> Systemic Onset JRA when he was between 3 and 6. He has been fine since

and

> had no permanent damage. At the time of the first my grandmother died.

Dan

> was very close to her. I talked with his rheumetologist about this and

how

> hard it hit him and was told by him " 10 years ago I would have laughed but

> now I know better-a trigger " . Dan did work it all out for himself and one

> time when we were driving to the hospital and he was looking at the clouds

> he said " I know know where Grammy is. She is with Jesus, she lives in a

> beautiful house. When she got there, Jesus took her in his arms and said

> 'It's all right, I'll take care of you now' " Out of the mouths of babes!

>

> Temple

December 16, 2000

Hi, Debs!

I like your apt description of the unfolding of our diseases and how it

takes someone to really listen and think about what we tell them to help us

figure out what is going on. I often say I need to find Dr. Sherlock Holmes.

Where the heck is she or he?

I'd like to hop on the train with you some day very soon!

----- Original Message -----

From: <Auntblabbie2000@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:56 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

> Judy

>

> I must agree with you in so many instances.....i feel that we can all go

> back in our medical & personal histories & see this disease evolve thru

> events, illnesses, exposures. i call it pieces to a puzzle, and until you

> find that person who is willing to put all the pieces to the puzzle into

> place, including corners, we do not get a dx. until that time, we get

> specialists, tests, psychiatrists, medications to treat symptoms, not the

> diease itself. it is a long & arduous road & some of us don't make it

the

> entire route.......Hang in there, hopefully a train is coming down the

track

> that will bring us all to the same depot.

>

> debs in FL

December 16, 2000

Judy,

Sorry you were sick so much through your childhood. Do you think the oil

heat had anything to do with it in those very early years? Did others in

your family get sick during that period and then improve when you moved?

I really like the idea of living in a boat in the middle of the ocean naked

(well, maybe a yacht) - no clutter problem.

Hope you are enjoying the warm, sunny, snowless surroundings,

----- Original Message -----

From: <JHend65291@...>

< egroups>

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:15 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

> Years ago from birth to 10 yrs old I lived in Northern Ny and was always

sick

> from Nov thru April with all the childhood ailments of then ( chickenpox,

> measles, mumps) and always got strept, ear infections, and tonsillitis

with

> them.....spent so much of winters at home in bed ..my mom became my

teacher

> those months. Anyway , we moved further downstate when I was 10 and I

didnt

> get sick in winter for the next 7 yrs...(went from heating oil to gas

> furnace?). I never knew why...but my sr yr of HS I got sick at slightest

> thing...wash my hair, ear infection....tonsillitis constantly.....had

tonsils

> out at 20...moved to AZ soon after......I was fine here for about 6 months

> ..then allergies and sinus infections....my Dad has always had allergies

and

> sinus and also has had RA since his 30s.....see ...I look back at all this

> and think there is a genetic predisposition and also

environmental......now

> through the last 20 years I have been using allergy meds , get shots,

> etc..and developed allergic asthma....I always tend to get infections from

> surgeries anymore, and about 5 yrs ago suddenly had rashes on chest ,

stomach

> , and back and reactive airway breathing.......those were my first

> symptoms......and suddenly I couldn't walk far ...w/o hurting so bad in my

> lower back and hips........looking back at all this ...it took so long it

> seemed to finally figure out what was wrong......a=nd then to get me where

I

> felt better ...Sad part is at one time a Dr jokingly said I needed to go

out

> in middle of ocean and live naked on a boat....get away from pollution and

> man made chemicals etc....truth is I think we are all overexposed anymore

> and throughout our lives and didnt know it......My RD says he thinks the

> environment really does play into it.....I'm sure it does...anyway just

my 2

> cents worth....Judy in AZ

December 18, 2000

Hi Judy,

Yes, I had tons of allergies also. My bedroom window was approximately 100

yeards from a bayou. A few years ago I visited back on the family farm in

February. Not a green leaf anywhere. My family kept saying that I should

wait until spring when everything was beautiful. I loved the dead, bare

landscape. Not one sneeze or sinus infection. It wasn't very cold -- just

dead!

Patsy

-----Original Message-----

From: JHend65291@... [mailto:JHend65291@...]

Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 9:15 PM

egroups

Subject: Re: [ ] Patsy and a/Environmental Triggers

Years ago from birth to 10 yrs old I lived in Northern Ny and was always

sick

from Nov thru April with all the childhood ailments of then ( chickenpox,

measles, mumps) and always got strept, ear infections, and tonsillitis with

them.....spent so much of winters at home in bed ..my mom became my teacher

those months. Anyway , we moved further downstate when I was 10 and I didnt

get sick in winter for the next 7 yrs...(went from heating oil to gas

furnace?). I never knew why...but my sr yr of HS I got sick at slightest

thing...wash my hair, ear infection....tonsillitis constantly.....had

tonsils

out at 20...moved to AZ soon after......I was fine here for about 6 months

...then allergies and sinus infections....my Dad has always had allergies and

sinus and also has had RA since his 30s.....see ...I look back at all this

and think there is a genetic predisposition and also environmental......now

through the last 20 years I have been using allergy meds , get shots,

etc..and developed allergic asthma....I always tend to get infections from

surgeries anymore, and about 5 yrs ago suddenly had rashes on chest ,