we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical establishment

[Guest guest]

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and

NO one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my

Atlas was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and

NO one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my

Atlas was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and

NO one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my

Atlas was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and

NO one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my

Atlas was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it at

an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either isn't

there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA told

her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told her I

knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly irregular " and

she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had and Echo

Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That left her

wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to wonder!!!).

A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how to

use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted on

checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim of

the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source of

back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

what I've seen and had happen to me!

The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that makes

Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited) that

pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not very

effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the year

after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised " just

had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs! I've

seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those in the

office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything and bilk

the sytem for all they can!!!

Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

Bill

> From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> neck pain

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> My boyfriend and i go up to the

> doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> say NO TESTS.

>  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> one at 62 years old.

>  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> at dave!

>   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> THIS.

>   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

>  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> 

>    

>  

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it at

an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either isn't

there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA told

her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told her I

knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly irregular " and

she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had and Echo

Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That left her

wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to wonder!!!).

A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how to

use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted on

checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim of

the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source of

back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

what I've seen and had happen to me!

The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that makes

Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited) that

pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not very

effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the year

after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised " just

had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs! I've

seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those in the

office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything and bilk

the sytem for all they can!!!

Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

Bill

> From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> neck pain

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> My boyfriend and i go up to the

> doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> say NO TESTS.

>  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> one at 62 years old.

>  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> at dave!

>   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> THIS.

>   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

>  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> 

>    

>  

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it at

an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either isn't

there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA told

her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told her I

knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly irregular " and

she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had and Echo

Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That left her

wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to wonder!!!).

A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how to

use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted on

checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim of

the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source of

back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

what I've seen and had happen to me!

The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that makes

Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited) that

pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not very

effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the year

after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised " just

had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs! I've

seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those in the

office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything and bilk

the sytem for all they can!!!

Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

Bill

> From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> neck pain

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> My boyfriend and i go up to the

> doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> say NO TESTS.

>  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> one at 62 years old.

>  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> at dave!

>   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> THIS.

>   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

>  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> 

>    

>  

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it at

an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either isn't

there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA told

her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told her I

knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly irregular " and

she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had and Echo

Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That left her

wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to wonder!!!).

A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how to

use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted on

checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim of

the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source of

back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

what I've seen and had happen to me!

The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that makes

Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited) that

pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not very

effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the year

after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised " just

had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs! I've

seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those in the

office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything and bilk

the sytem for all they can!!!

Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

Bill

> From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> neck pain

> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> My boyfriend and i go up to the

> doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> say NO TESTS.

>  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> one at 62 years old.

>  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> at dave!

>   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> THIS.

>   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

>  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> 

>    

>  

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks for posting this, you know alot about hearts!!!And i learned

something too by reading it! cindy

>

> I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

> He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it

at an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

> I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

>

> It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either

isn't there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

> There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

>

> My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA

told her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told

her I knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly

irregular " and she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had

and Echo Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That

left her wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to

wonder!!!).

>

> A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

>

> This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how

to use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted

on checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

>

> What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

>

> I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim

of the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source

of back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

> what I've seen and had happen to me!

> The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that

makes Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited)

that pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not

very effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the

year after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised "

just had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

>

> We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

>

> When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

> happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs!

I've seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those

in the office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything

and bilk the sytem for all they can!!!

>

> Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

>

> Bill

>

>

> > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> > neck pain

> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> > say NO TESTS.

> >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> > one at 62 years old.

> >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> > at dave!

> >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> > THIS.

> >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

> >  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> > 

> >    

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks for posting this, you know alot about hearts!!!And i learned

something too by reading it! cindy

>

> I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

> He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it

at an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

> I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

>

> It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either

isn't there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

> There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

>

> My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA

told her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told

her I knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly

irregular " and she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had

and Echo Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That

left her wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to

wonder!!!).

>

> A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

>

> This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how

to use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted

on checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

>

> What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

>

> I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim

of the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source

of back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

> what I've seen and had happen to me!

> The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that

makes Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited)

that pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not

very effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the

year after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised "

just had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

>

> We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

>

> When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

> happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs!

I've seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those

in the office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything

and bilk the sytem for all they can!!!

>

> Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

>

> Bill

>

>

> > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> > neck pain

> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> > say NO TESTS.

> >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> > one at 62 years old.

> >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> > at dave!

> >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> > THIS.

> >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

> >  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> > 

> >    

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks for posting this, you know alot about hearts!!!And i learned

something too by reading it! cindy

>

> I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

> He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it

at an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

> I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

>

> It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either

isn't there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

> There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

>

> My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA

told her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told

her I knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly

irregular " and she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had

and Echo Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That

left her wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to

wonder!!!).

>

> A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

>

> This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how

to use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted

on checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

>

> What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

>

> I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim

of the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source

of back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

> what I've seen and had happen to me!

> The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that

makes Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited)

that pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not

very effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the

year after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised "

just had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

>

> We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

>

> When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

> happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs!

I've seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those

in the office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything

and bilk the sytem for all they can!!!

>

> Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

>

> Bill

>

>

> > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> > neck pain

> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> > say NO TESTS.

> >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> > one at 62 years old.

> >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> > at dave!

> >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> > THIS.

> >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

> >  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> > 

> >    

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey thanks for posting this, you know alot about hearts!!!And i learned

something too by reading it! cindy

>

> I have a " benign " hear murmur that is not all that often even heard. About 25

years ago, when I was first " accused " of having it, I went back to our " pretty

poor in too many ways " family Doc. He said, " you've a;ways had it. Sometimes I

hear it a, but not usually. When it's there any body could here it. It's

meaningless. " I went to a top flite Cardiovascular Specialist who could tell

more with a Stethoscope and BP cuff than most of these guys can with all the

fancy tests. he didn't just tell me I was " OK, " but explained what was going on

to cause the sound - unlike most!

> He also suggested I have an Echo when I had insurance, or he'd arrange for it

at an adjusted rate and have his people work our a payment plan, but said it was

really for my peace of mind and it could wait!. I did have it done more than a

year later (got insurance) and was " A OK. "

> I refer to him extensively in something I am going to try again to post.

>

> It seems there are some Docs, who hear and see and find stuff that either

isn't there, or doesn't matter!!! I've had my share!

> There is also a real problem with those new to the 'racket " finding stuff, as

they don't know what to ignore. And, beware when something " new " is discovered!

Then " everybody has it " according to some Docs.

>

> My wife went to her Doc, saw a PA and came home " all shook up. " as the PA

told her she had an irregular heartbeat and also Mitral Valve Prolapse! I told

her I knew she always had an irregular heartbeat, but it was " regularly

irregular " and she seemed fine so I never even thought to say anything! She had

and Echo Cardiogram that " could not confirm the Mitral Valve Prolapse. " That

left her wondering, if anybody knew what they were doing (good thing to

wonder!!!).

>

> A few years later, when I went back to the Cardiovascular Specialist, I asked,

if he'd see her. He said, " gladly. " He was a very calm, gentle soul. Hope he

still is, though he's finally, retired fully. After seeing my dad 3 or 4 times

(the last in 1988), he remembered him vividly and called him " a wonderful man! "

Well, it took one to know one! He is an Arab. Were any of the real leaders of

the Arab World, or those of Israel like him, there'd have been a working peace

there many years ago!!!!

>

> This Dr checked my wife out carefully and explained that many didn't know how

to use the " new technology (Echo Cardiagram, etc) well enough (He even insisted

on checking his own Technician's work )not disrespectfully, but to be as sure as

possible.) My wife has a very minor Mintral Valve Prolapse ( " maybe a 1 on a

scale of 1 to 10 " ) that should never be a problem. He also said that her

heartbeat was normal for her and got the job done just fine. It's only a problem

when it affects someone. It never has (A few years ago, I noticed it was regular

- possibly to to walking our pooch a lot.....). When this Dr has been uncertain,

or 'stumped, " he consults with others as skillful and knowledgeable as he can

find. Unlike far too many, " He doesn't know it all and knows it! "

>

> What does this stuff about hearts have to do with backs, necks, etc? For one

thing, I watched a friend of my dad (also a wonderful man and a great scholar)

crippled badly by Spinal Stenosis. He was unable to stand or walk unaided for

the last 9 years of his life and was loosing the use and control of his legs the

last time we saw him in the fall of 2008 - WHY? - Because he had a very serious

heart condition (for the last 41 of his 89 years) that made surgery impossible

(They put " us " - I have it too) face down on a frame that is raised in the

middle to open up the Spine so it can be worked on. The surgeries often take 3

hours or more. My dad's (and our great old friend could not have survived being

in that position for long! So it's obvious that the Docs had better know all

they can about the overall health oif someone before they dtat cutting and

hacking!

>

> I recently read in " How Doctors Think " (by a Dr who has been as much a victim

of the " system " as anyone else) that it's extremely difficult to find the source

of back pain and the Docs thinking that the fancy Medical Imaging available now

will do the job exactly is the cause of lots of grief. It isn't really very good

compared to what is needed!!!! He also said that the idea that treatment can

restore a person 100 percent is seldom at all accurate. I figured that out all

by myself by the time I was in HS and hurt " this and that! " Some of it is still

healing (a pulled Tendon in mt right knee for example, is not healed after 51

years, though it's been usable since about 10 days after I damaged it amd is

still improving (while the rest is falling apart). The author of that book (Get

the book!) said 80 per cent is a realistic goal for most of us for most things.

I've said for 40 some years, that 75 - 90 percent was about as good as it gets

usually, based on

> what I've seen and had happen to me!

> The Dr also said (He has Arthritis in his legs and hips (as I recall) that

makes Golf difficult and running impassible. He loves both and is very limited)

that pain medications for Arthritis and other approaches are, generally, not

very effective! Sadly, I'd already figured that out all by myself by 1997, the

year after my first back surgery. What the surgeon so off handedly " promised "

just had not happened and the pills are just not that much help!

>

> We should be treated like we have a brain that can understand and shown the

respect we deserve by having htings fully and realistically explained to us. We

should also have the right ot making an informed choice as to what we want to do

in any given situation, as oppossed to be givena recommendation and a " snow

job! "

>

> When it comes to your bills, it is, first up to you to say, " I can't pay for

that " up front and ask for some kind of " break. " Hospitals and doctors routinely

settle for far less than the amounts on their billing schedule (My insurance - a

private self insurance, non profit plan has agreements with almost all providers

in our large geographic area and with others beyond it where the insured often

find themselves. I never asked for anything, but an MRI of my lower back done

last summer " cost " about $3300. Between Medicare (I am, of course, disabled!)

and my insurance the amount actually paid was about $500 - pretty hard to

believe! Makes me wonder what the " actual cost " really is!!!! I know that those

of us who have insurance, or can pay out of pocket, pay more, because our Dr

treats many who can't pay it all, if any, though the office does reach a point

where too many non payments result in services being withheld (It has to get

pretty bad for that to

> happen). The Dr. pays his bills and his small staff (All do multiple jobs!

I've seen the Doc taking out the trash at the end of his office hours so those

in the office can do thier jobs! Quite a contrast to those who own everything

and bilk the sytem for all they can!!!

>

> Doctors do a great deal to help many, if not most, but " fixing us " is often

beyond the " state of the art! " I'd hate to thing what my much shorter life would

have been like without the help of many good Docs, despite the fact I've rn into

so many incomopetant uncaring ones along theway as well!

>

> Bill

>

>

> > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

> > neck pain

> > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was just a check

> > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day

> > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont

> > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But they

> > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart murmur.

> > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid

> > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well

> > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever noticed it

> > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right then and

> > say NO TESTS.

> >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i

> > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come down with

> > one at 62 years old.

> >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared me half to

> > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving Dave the

> > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the point

> > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch

> > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor

> > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know anything now

> > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she didnt even look

> > at dave!

> >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood

> > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans what was

> > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas was pushed

> > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED

> > THIS.

> >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do you

> > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a

> > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a pill? Which

> > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

> >  Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you

> > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe

> > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But if you have

> > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

> > 

> >    

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

HI,

Thanks for the tanks! But i know very little - and - so it seems - do many of

those who are supposed to be experts and specialists. After one round of tests

needed due to the side effects of my BP pills, I was told I had the heart of a

20 year old (age 60 then), but may have had a hear attack in the past without

knowing it (can happen). While in an ER and for overnight for observation (fake

heart attack) in 2001, each of the 3 Docs who gave me fleeting attetion said

something different. One said I'd never had a heart attack, another maybee and

the 3rd was so sure he wanted to order one of them cables up into my heat

(glanced at my chart).

That was why I sought out the true expert!!!! I asked him, specifically about

the " abnormal " trace on my EKG and he told me exactly what my reg Doc had more

than 30 years earlier. My hear sits more vertically than the " plastic model! " So

the arteries follow a little different douse and he electrical trace is a bit

different. I also asked, did I have a heart attack in the past or not (also said

I didn't think so!!!!). He said absolutely not. I asked, " if some Docs have

trouble reading those Ekg steps and he just smiled knowingly.

I asked, if he knew anything about how to maintain a car (saying he probably had

no time to even th9nk about it. He said he followed the maintenance schedule and

always had a fairly new one - very wise for hi!!

I told him I frequently have had incompetent " mechanics " tell me this and that

and know many took my dad and me for " a ride " back before I had a clue. I also

said they still do.

In point of fact, when my wife took her car for inspection last year and this

year 2 different stations tried to get her to go for needless repairs.

I've known a guy who is very good with that stuff )front ends and suspension,

etc) who learned a lot from his dad who worked on noting else.

I couldn't go, but my wife took the car to him this afternoon and he could find

nothing wrong - knowing that, if he did, he'd get the business.

He used to have an Inspection License, but the cost of new equipment (computers

of cuss0 and the aggravation and time it used up became to much.

He is usually so busy with " small jobs " one guy can do fairly quickly, he has no

time to be bothered cheating anyone.

That's really one odd thing about so many Docs. If they really took the time to

treat us as they should they'd make as many $$$ as by ripping us off!!!!

This seems to be the case in many fields of endeavor sadly.

Bill

> >

> > > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > > Subject: we go up to the

> doctors my thoughts on medical establishment

> > > neck pain

> > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

> just a check

> > > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now

> that day

> > > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok,

> we dont

> > > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But

> they

> > > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a

> heart murmur.

> > > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or

> their stupid

> > > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to

> myself. Well

> > > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever

> noticed it

> > > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

> then and

> > > say NO TESTS.

> > >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she

> tells me, i

> > > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come

> down with

> > > one at 62 years old.

> > >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared

> me half to

> > > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving

> Dave the

> > > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the

> point

> > > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its

> such a bunch

> > > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD!

> The doctor

> > > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know

> anything now

> > > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

> didnt even look

> > > at dave!

> > >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans,

> blood

> > > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans

> what was

> > > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

> was pushed

> > > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these

> tests MISSED

> > > THIS.

> > >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do

> you

> > > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a

> DOCTOR????? Does a

> > > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

> pill? Which

> > > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT

> matter.

> > >  Unless you pick up an infection, then

> anitbotics fix you

> > > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has

> anything. Maybe

> > > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But

> if you have

> > > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your

> Doomed.

> > > 

> > >    

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

HI,

Thanks for the tanks! But i know very little - and - so it seems - do many of

those who are supposed to be experts and specialists. After one round of tests

needed due to the side effects of my BP pills, I was told I had the heart of a

20 year old (age 60 then), but may have had a hear attack in the past without

knowing it (can happen). While in an ER and for overnight for observation (fake

heart attack) in 2001, each of the 3 Docs who gave me fleeting attetion said

something different. One said I'd never had a heart attack, another maybee and

the 3rd was so sure he wanted to order one of them cables up into my heat

(glanced at my chart).

That was why I sought out the true expert!!!! I asked him, specifically about

the " abnormal " trace on my EKG and he told me exactly what my reg Doc had more

than 30 years earlier. My hear sits more vertically than the " plastic model! " So

the arteries follow a little different douse and he electrical trace is a bit

different. I also asked, did I have a heart attack in the past or not (also said

I didn't think so!!!!). He said absolutely not. I asked, " if some Docs have

trouble reading those Ekg steps and he just smiled knowingly.

I asked, if he knew anything about how to maintain a car (saying he probably had

no time to even th9nk about it. He said he followed the maintenance schedule and

always had a fairly new one - very wise for hi!!

I told him I frequently have had incompetent " mechanics " tell me this and that

and know many took my dad and me for " a ride " back before I had a clue. I also

said they still do.

In point of fact, when my wife took her car for inspection last year and this

year 2 different stations tried to get her to go for needless repairs.

I've known a guy who is very good with that stuff )front ends and suspension,

etc) who learned a lot from his dad who worked on noting else.

I couldn't go, but my wife took the car to him this afternoon and he could find

nothing wrong - knowing that, if he did, he'd get the business.

He used to have an Inspection License, but the cost of new equipment (computers

of cuss0 and the aggravation and time it used up became to much.

He is usually so busy with " small jobs " one guy can do fairly quickly, he has no

time to be bothered cheating anyone.

That's really one odd thing about so many Docs. If they really took the time to

treat us as they should they'd make as many $$$ as by ripping us off!!!!

This seems to be the case in many fields of endeavor sadly.

Bill

> >

> > > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > > Subject: we go up to the

> doctors my thoughts on medical establishment

> > > neck pain

> > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

> just a check

> > > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now

> that day

> > > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok,

> we dont

> > > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But

> they

> > > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a

> heart murmur.

> > > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or

> their stupid

> > > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to

> myself. Well

> > > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever

> noticed it

> > > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

> then and

> > > say NO TESTS.

> > >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she

> tells me, i

> > > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come

> down with

> > > one at 62 years old.

> > >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared

> me half to

> > > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving

> Dave the

> > > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the

> point

> > > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its

> such a bunch

> > > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD!

> The doctor

> > > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know

> anything now

> > > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

> didnt even look

> > > at dave!

> > >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans,

> blood

> > > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans

> what was

> > > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

> was pushed

> > > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these

> tests MISSED

> > > THIS.

> > >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do

> you

> > > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a

> DOCTOR????? Does a

> > > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

> pill? Which

> > > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT

> matter.

> > >  Unless you pick up an infection, then

> anitbotics fix you

> > > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has

> anything. Maybe

> > > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But

> if you have

> > > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your

> Doomed.

> > > 

> > >    

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

HI,

Thanks for the tanks! But i know very little - and - so it seems - do many of

those who are supposed to be experts and specialists. After one round of tests

needed due to the side effects of my BP pills, I was told I had the heart of a

20 year old (age 60 then), but may have had a hear attack in the past without

knowing it (can happen). While in an ER and for overnight for observation (fake

heart attack) in 2001, each of the 3 Docs who gave me fleeting attetion said

something different. One said I'd never had a heart attack, another maybee and

the 3rd was so sure he wanted to order one of them cables up into my heat

(glanced at my chart).

That was why I sought out the true expert!!!! I asked him, specifically about

the " abnormal " trace on my EKG and he told me exactly what my reg Doc had more

than 30 years earlier. My hear sits more vertically than the " plastic model! " So

the arteries follow a little different douse and he electrical trace is a bit

different. I also asked, did I have a heart attack in the past or not (also said

I didn't think so!!!!). He said absolutely not. I asked, " if some Docs have

trouble reading those Ekg steps and he just smiled knowingly.

I asked, if he knew anything about how to maintain a car (saying he probably had

no time to even th9nk about it. He said he followed the maintenance schedule and

always had a fairly new one - very wise for hi!!

I told him I frequently have had incompetent " mechanics " tell me this and that

and know many took my dad and me for " a ride " back before I had a clue. I also

said they still do.

In point of fact, when my wife took her car for inspection last year and this

year 2 different stations tried to get her to go for needless repairs.

I've known a guy who is very good with that stuff )front ends and suspension,

etc) who learned a lot from his dad who worked on noting else.

I couldn't go, but my wife took the car to him this afternoon and he could find

nothing wrong - knowing that, if he did, he'd get the business.

He used to have an Inspection License, but the cost of new equipment (computers

of cuss0 and the aggravation and time it used up became to much.

He is usually so busy with " small jobs " one guy can do fairly quickly, he has no

time to be bothered cheating anyone.

That's really one odd thing about so many Docs. If they really took the time to

treat us as they should they'd make as many $$$ as by ripping us off!!!!

This seems to be the case in many fields of endeavor sadly.

Bill

> >

> > > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > > Subject: we go up to the

> doctors my thoughts on medical establishment

> > > neck pain

> > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

> just a check

> > > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now

> that day

> > > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok,

> we dont

> > > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But

> they

> > > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a

> heart murmur.

> > > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or

> their stupid

> > > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to

> myself. Well

> > > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever

> noticed it

> > > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

> then and

> > > say NO TESTS.

> > >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she

> tells me, i

> > > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come

> down with

> > > one at 62 years old.

> > >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared

> me half to

> > > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving

> Dave the

> > > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the

> point

> > > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its

> such a bunch

> > > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD!

> The doctor

> > > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know

> anything now

> > > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

> didnt even look

> > > at dave!

> > >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans,

> blood

> > > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans

> what was

> > > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

> was pushed

> > > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these

> tests MISSED

> > > THIS.

> > >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do

> you

> > > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a

> DOCTOR????? Does a

> > > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

> pill? Which

> > > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT

> matter.

> > >  Unless you pick up an infection, then

> anitbotics fix you

> > > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has

> anything. Maybe

> > > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But

> if you have

> > > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your

> Doomed.

> > > 

> > >    

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

HI,

Thanks for the tanks! But i know very little - and - so it seems - do many of

those who are supposed to be experts and specialists. After one round of tests

needed due to the side effects of my BP pills, I was told I had the heart of a

20 year old (age 60 then), but may have had a hear attack in the past without

knowing it (can happen). While in an ER and for overnight for observation (fake

heart attack) in 2001, each of the 3 Docs who gave me fleeting attetion said

something different. One said I'd never had a heart attack, another maybee and

the 3rd was so sure he wanted to order one of them cables up into my heat

(glanced at my chart).

That was why I sought out the true expert!!!! I asked him, specifically about

the " abnormal " trace on my EKG and he told me exactly what my reg Doc had more

than 30 years earlier. My hear sits more vertically than the " plastic model! " So

the arteries follow a little different douse and he electrical trace is a bit

different. I also asked, did I have a heart attack in the past or not (also said

I didn't think so!!!!). He said absolutely not. I asked, " if some Docs have

trouble reading those Ekg steps and he just smiled knowingly.

I asked, if he knew anything about how to maintain a car (saying he probably had

no time to even th9nk about it. He said he followed the maintenance schedule and

always had a fairly new one - very wise for hi!!

I told him I frequently have had incompetent " mechanics " tell me this and that

and know many took my dad and me for " a ride " back before I had a clue. I also

said they still do.

In point of fact, when my wife took her car for inspection last year and this

year 2 different stations tried to get her to go for needless repairs.

I've known a guy who is very good with that stuff )front ends and suspension,

etc) who learned a lot from his dad who worked on noting else.

I couldn't go, but my wife took the car to him this afternoon and he could find

nothing wrong - knowing that, if he did, he'd get the business.

He used to have an Inspection License, but the cost of new equipment (computers

of cuss0 and the aggravation and time it used up became to much.

He is usually so busy with " small jobs " one guy can do fairly quickly, he has no

time to be bothered cheating anyone.

That's really one odd thing about so many Docs. If they really took the time to

treat us as they should they'd make as many $$$ as by ripping us off!!!!

This seems to be the case in many fields of endeavor sadly.

Bill

> >

> > > From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

> > > Subject: we go up to the

> doctors my thoughts on medical establishment

> > > neck pain

> > > Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 10:21 AM

> > > My boyfriend and i go up to the

> > > doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

> just a check

> > > in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now

> that day

> > > the doc has a medical student tagging along. Ok,

> we dont

> > > mind. I made it in and out ok, with no tests, But

> they

> > > nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a

> heart murmur.

> > > YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or

> their stupid

> > > tests. So I look at dave, and i'm thinking to

> myself. Well

> > > if Dave has a heart murmur, how come no one ever

> noticed it

> > > before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

> then and

> > > say NO TESTS.

> > >  So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she

> tells me, i

> > > doubt he has a murmur, its very rare to just come

> down with

> > > one at 62 years old.

> > >  Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram.Scared

> me half to

> > > death, and  I was worried sick. The guy giving

> Dave the

> > > test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS! But the

> point

> > > is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its

> such a bunch

> > > of bs. Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD!

> The doctor

> > > knows he's unemployed right now. DONT they Know

> anything now

> > > a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

> didnt even look

> > > at dave!

> > >   Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans,

> blood

> > > work.All those tests, and NO one saw on the scans

> what was

> > > wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

> was pushed

> > > so far off, it almost killed me, and all these

> tests MISSED

> > > THIS.

> > >   If a person really drops all the facades, Do

> you

> > > know anyone that is ACTUALLY FIXED by a

> DOCTOR????? Does a

> > > Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

> pill? Which

> > > they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT

> matter.

> > >  Unless you pick up an infection, then

> anitbotics fix you

> > > up. I can not think of anyone fixed that has

> anything. Maybe

> > > stretching it a bit, they do ok with hearts. But

> if you have

> > > bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your

> Doomed.

> > > 

> > >    

> > >  

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

hi cindy, i was assaulted in march and had a partial disk flatten my spinal cord

in an area i have stenosis. after trying pain pills and epidurals, i had c5-c6

fused and the partial disk removed and replaced with a cadaver disk. i cannot

tell you how grateful i am to no longer feel that my right arm and hand are

holding a live 110 wire and to have their use again. it did not cure my ddd or

lumbar problems, nerve damage, nerve disease, or bad knees, but it is a start.

after 27 years it seems i finally have a great team of doctors who are taking an

interest, i just keep firing the ones that did not and kept searching, there are

a lot of doctor's out there and they are not all bad, some really do care for

the right reasons. just remember they work for you, even if you are on medicare

or medicaid, at some point you paid in and have an obligation to use taxpayers

money wisely and not on worthless doctors who don't care or help you. just my 2

cents, wyld

From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

neck pain

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 7:21 AM

 

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram. Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and NO

one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

hi cindy, i was assaulted in march and had a partial disk flatten my spinal cord

in an area i have stenosis. after trying pain pills and epidurals, i had c5-c6

fused and the partial disk removed and replaced with a cadaver disk. i cannot

tell you how grateful i am to no longer feel that my right arm and hand are

holding a live 110 wire and to have their use again. it did not cure my ddd or

lumbar problems, nerve damage, nerve disease, or bad knees, but it is a start.

after 27 years it seems i finally have a great team of doctors who are taking an

interest, i just keep firing the ones that did not and kept searching, there are

a lot of doctor's out there and they are not all bad, some really do care for

the right reasons. just remember they work for you, even if you are on medicare

or medicaid, at some point you paid in and have an obligation to use taxpayers

money wisely and not on worthless doctors who don't care or help you. just my 2

cents, wyld

From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

neck pain

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 7:21 AM

 

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram. Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and NO

one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

hi cindy, i was assaulted in march and had a partial disk flatten my spinal cord

in an area i have stenosis. after trying pain pills and epidurals, i had c5-c6

fused and the partial disk removed and replaced with a cadaver disk. i cannot

tell you how grateful i am to no longer feel that my right arm and hand are

holding a live 110 wire and to have their use again. it did not cure my ddd or

lumbar problems, nerve damage, nerve disease, or bad knees, but it is a start.

after 27 years it seems i finally have a great team of doctors who are taking an

interest, i just keep firing the ones that did not and kept searching, there are

a lot of doctor's out there and they are not all bad, some really do care for

the right reasons. just remember they work for you, even if you are on medicare

or medicaid, at some point you paid in and have an obligation to use taxpayers

money wisely and not on worthless doctors who don't care or help you. just my 2

cents, wyld

From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

neck pain

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 7:21 AM

 

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram. Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and NO

one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.

[Guest guest]

hi cindy, i was assaulted in march and had a partial disk flatten my spinal cord

in an area i have stenosis. after trying pain pills and epidurals, i had c5-c6

fused and the partial disk removed and replaced with a cadaver disk. i cannot

tell you how grateful i am to no longer feel that my right arm and hand are

holding a live 110 wire and to have their use again. it did not cure my ddd or

lumbar problems, nerve damage, nerve disease, or bad knees, but it is a start.

after 27 years it seems i finally have a great team of doctors who are taking an

interest, i just keep firing the ones that did not and kept searching, there are

a lot of doctor's out there and they are not all bad, some really do care for

the right reasons. just remember they work for you, even if you are on medicare

or medicaid, at some point you paid in and have an obligation to use taxpayers

money wisely and not on worthless doctors who don't care or help you. just my 2

cents, wyld

From: grasshopperx_10 <woody1014@...>

Subject: we go up to the doctors my thoughts on medical

establishment

neck pain

Date: Wednesday, January 13, 2010, 7:21 AM

 

My boyfriend and i go up to the doctors. We both had an appointment and it was

just a check in sort of. He checks our blood pressure etc. Now that day the doc

has a medical student tagging along. Ok, we dont mind. I made it in and out ok,

with no tests, But they nabbed Dave. The medical student says I hear a heart

murmur. YIKES. Now keep in mind i DONT like doctors Or their stupid tests. So I

look at dave, and i'm thinking to myself. Well if Dave has a heart murmur, how

come no one ever noticed it before????? My Instinct was to stop the BS right

then and say NO TESTS.

So I ask our friend who is a nurse, and she tells me, i doubt he has a murmur,

its very rare to just come down with one at 62 years old.

Well they sent him for a eco-cardigram. Scared me half to death, and I was

worried sick. The guy giving Dave the test says, it all looks great! GOOD NEWS!

But the point is... He was alright BEfore we went there. Its such a bunch of bs.

Now the bills are coming in....OH MY GOD! The doctor knows he's unemployed right

now. DONT they Know anything now a days????? Our NURSE friend knew!!! And she

didnt even look at dave!

Same thing with me, I had ct scans mri scans, blood work.All those tests, and NO

one saw on the scans what was wrong with me? I had a dislocated FACE, my Atlas

was pushed so far off, it almost killed me, and all these tests MISSED THIS.

If a person really drops all the facades, Do you know anyone that is ACTUALLY

FIXED by a DOCTOR????? Does a Test actually help? If they cant fix you with a

pill? Which they cant. Then KNOWING what is wrong does NOT matter.

Unless you pick up an infection, then anitbotics fix you up. I can not think of

anyone fixed that has anything. Maybe stretching it a bit, they do ok with

hearts. But if you have bone troubles, arthritis, nerve issues, your Doomed.