Re: olive oil marinade & grilling

[Guest guest]

I think coconut oil is the best for that is it can withstand the

higher temp ( not 100% on this but im sure soneone here can confirm )

> I've got some steak marinating in olive oil, lemon juice, garlic &

> onion. It's going to be grilled tomorrow, but I started wondering

> about grilling with olive oil (i.e., the high heat).

>

> Can anyone tell me if this is a no-no? Could I just rinse off the

> marinade before grilling?

>

> I just read 's message about marinating raw meat using palm

oil.

> Maybe I should try that? Can you get palm oil in health food

stores?

>

> Thanks,

>

[Guest guest]

-

>I just read 's message about marinating raw meat using palm oil.

>Maybe I should try that? Can you get palm oil in health food stores?

I got my palm oil from coconut-info.com, which sells virgin coconut oil and

what they call " minimally processed " palm oil. Palm oil is awfully hard to

find, though, and I'd imagine the quality of whatever is available is

probably generally pretty low.

As for grilling, I don't know, I'd want to use the most saturated and

stable oil possible for any grilling. Olive oil is mostly monounsaturated,

with a little saturated and the rest polyunsaturated. Palm oil is about

half monounsaturated and half saturated, with a tiny bit of polyunsaturated

thrown in. As vegetable oils go, coconut oil is probably a better bet for

grilling, as it's just about entirely saturated.

-

[Guest guest]

>

> As for grilling, I don't know, I'd want to use the most saturated

and

> stable oil possible for any grilling. Olive oil is mostly

monounsaturated,

> with a little saturated and the rest polyunsaturated. Palm oil is

about

> half monounsaturated and half saturated, with a tiny bit of

polyunsaturated

> thrown in. As vegetable oils go, coconut oil is probably a better

bet for

> grilling, as it's just about entirely saturated.

>

You know, I thought about coconut oil, but it solidifies in the

fridge and I wanted it to marinate for a day or so. Of course, olive

oil usually solidfies in the fridge, but it hasn't with the marinade

(is that because of the lemon juice?) Maybe, coconut oil would be

the same.

Does anyone out there marinate and grill?

[Guest guest]

-

>You know, I thought about coconut oil, but it solidifies in the

>fridge and I wanted it to marinate for a day or so.

Palm oil would solidify in the fridge by itself, but because of the other

ingredients -- mainly the lemon juice, I guess -- it doesn't, so I'm pretty

sure coconut oil wouldn't either.

-

[Guest guest]

> I've got some steak marinating in olive oil, lemon juice, garlic &

> onion. It's going to be grilled tomorrow, but I started wondering

> about grilling with olive oil (i.e., the high heat).

I'm wondering why you would be grilling with such high heat that you need to

worry about the olive oil. I would think you want the meat rare (healthier

and more tender), so the surface of the meat would get some nice browning,

but not get all that high in heat. Better to use a moderate fire rather than

get the surface of the meat too brown/black.

Kris

[Guest guest]

Everyone seems to have a different theory regarding raw meat.

Aajounus says the parasites help clean up the blood, Hulda says they cause

everything from cancer to aids.

I know I feel best eating rare and marinated raw meat. you won't know until

you try, it can be a little acary at first - It can't be worse than my first

experience, I grew uo as a vegetarian/vegan and ate my first piece of meat

when I was 23.

I ate elk first- cooked rare and then graduated to raw marinated reindeer

(eaten in Sweden). I prefer my meat rare for taste reasons too, there's

nothing enjoyable about meat that is cooked until grey unless it's in stew

form IMO.

I'd like to make the kind or raw marinated game that I've eaten in Sweden ,

if anyone knows how please share your recipes. I have many cookbooks from

Scandinavia but none that have that particular delicacy.

piimaman

[Guest guest]

Raw and rare meat is new for me too. I grew up eating meat well done. The

other night i finally convinced my husband to try our filets rare (he is

also timid). They were very good and i recall feeling energetic, not heavy,

after eating. As i haven't had any personal problems that i know of with

parasites, i'm not too worried. I have read much parasite information and am

not sure what to think either. If i have parasites and can still function

normally and be healthy, then i guess a few are welcome. However i can

certainly understand one wanting to be cautious after having had problems.

It seems there are so many raw things beyond meat one can enjoy. Maybe soups

and stews are a good idea in the meantime.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

> I'm wondering why you would be grilling with such high heat that

you need to worry about the olive oil. I would think you want the

meat rare (healthier and more tender), so the surface of the meat

would get some nice browning,

> but not get all that high in heat. Better to use a moderate fire

rather than get the surface of the meat too brown/black.

>

> Kris

Hi Kris,

I never grill, but was doing this for a party. I was marinating the

meat, someone else was doing the grilling. After I got the meat in

the marinade, I started wondering about the grilling temperature.

So, is a moderate heat fine for olive oil? I know you need to be

careful with vegetable oils and heat; I don't know the parameters,

though.

As for eating the meat rare, I need to get over my fears of

parasites! I know Sally says 2 weeks in the freezer will kill

parasites. Hulda says that's not true. Now, I just read an

interview with Aajonus who says the problems with raw meat and

parasites is a myth! I'm not sure whom to believe.

My health problems all began with multiple parasitic infestations

while in Kenya. It took forever for me to get rid of my final case

of giardia (of course, this came from water not meat). It was a

scary time as I was literally wasting away. Now I'm a little

paranoid about parasites!

I've been drinking raw goat's milk kefir for about a month now, so

I'm pleased to have that source of raw animal food. I'd like to get

up my courage to do the raw meat. Does anyone know of any studies

that might ally my fears? (Theoretically, I agree it would be good

to eat.)

[Guest guest]

> I never grill, but was doing this for a party. I was marinating the

> meat, someone else was doing the grilling. After I got the meat in

> the marinade, I started wondering about the grilling temperature.

>

> So, is a moderate heat fine for olive oil? I know you need to be

> careful with vegetable oils and heat; I don't know the parameters,

> though.

Enig in her book says she uses a mix of coconut oil, olive oil, and

sesame oil for frying (1/3 each).

> As for eating the meat rare, I need to get over my fears of

> parasites! I know Sally says 2 weeks in the freezer will kill

> parasites. Hulda says that's not true. Now, I just read an

> interview with Aajonus who says the problems with raw meat and

> parasites is a myth! I'm not sure whom to believe.

>

> My health problems all began with multiple parasitic infestations

> while in Kenya. It took forever for me to get rid of my final case

> of giardia (of course, this came from water not meat). It was a

> scary time as I was literally wasting away. Now I'm a little

> paranoid about parasites!

In The Miracles of Coconut Oil Fife says that CO is effective in fighting

giardia and other parasites, but the damage they cause can take months of

high doses of supplements to repair.

Kris

[Guest guest]

At 01:06 AM 9/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>I've been drinking raw goat's milk kefir for about a month now, so

>I'm pleased to have that source of raw animal food. I'd like to get

>up my courage to do the raw meat. Does anyone know of any studies

>that might ally my fears? (Theoretically, I agree it would be good

>to eat.)

>

>

If you freeze the meat for 2 weeks, it will kill any parasites. If you ferment

it, or even just dip it in vinegar, that will kill any e-coli on the

surface of the

meat (using a vinegar marinades is even better, or use kefir). Those are

the recommendations from the FDA, I think, which is as paranoid as

anyone. In this state, sushi fish must be frozen, by law, and the vinegar

dip is the official recommendation for jerky (when you dry jerky, it often

doesn't get hot enough to kill e-coli). Except with hamburger, e-coli is

on the surface of the meat only. The link below will give the " official "

recommendation for jerky, which has about the same issues as

raw meat (only worse, because bacteria can grow while it is drying).

They really, really tested the jerky recommendations, making

jerky using different methods and testing the bacteria count.

I'm assuming the same is true for parasites.

In this handout, it says this is not enough for bear meat. I take it

that they feel pretty safe then, with non-bear meat!

http://www.uaf.edu/coop-ext/publications/freepubs/FNH-00262.pdf

Heidi

[Guest guest]

If you freeze the meat for 2 weeks, it will kill any parasites. If you

ferment

it, or even just dip it in vinegar, that will kill any e-coli on the

surface of the meat (using a vinegar marinades is even better, or use

kefir). Those are

the recommendations from the FDA, I think, which is as paranoid as

anyone.

----------->i don't see how dipping it in vinegar would kill the infamous

acid-resistant e.coli O157:H7 strain...? although, if the meat's strictly

grass-fed, that strain should not even be a concern. vinegar pH is around 2

as is our stomach acid, and this strain has mutated to be stomach acid

resistant, but is found only in cattle with low stomach pH, which results

from grain feeding.

researchers from Cornell, dipped e.coli from grain-fed cattle in a pH 2.0

medium and they didn't die. see:

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:LTHEIwHeMjkC:www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc

98/9_19_98/Food.htm+human+stomach+acid+pH & hl=en

of course, if you eat just grass-fed, the e.coli count is likely only a

fraction of that of grain-fed and they tend to be far less virulent.

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

> If you freeze the meat for 2 weeks, it will kill any parasites. If you

> ferment

> it, or even just dip it in vinegar, that will kill any e-coli on the

> surface of the meat (using a vinegar marinades is even better, or use

> kefir). Those are

> the recommendations from the FDA, I think, which is as paranoid as

> anyone.

>

> ----------->i don't see how dipping it in vinegar would kill the infamous

> acid-resistant e.coli O157:H7 strain...? although, if the meat's strictly

> grass-fed, that strain should not even be a concern. vinegar pH is around

2

> as is our stomach acid, and this strain has mutated to be stomach acid

> resistant, but is found only in cattle with low stomach pH, which results

> from grain feeding.

You'll think I have coconut on the brain, but if you're worried about

e-coli, it sounds like you should include coconut oil in your diet daily.

Here's what Fife says " When coconut oil is eaten the body transforms its

unique fatty acids into powerful antimicrobial powerhouses capable of

defeating some of the most notoriuous disease-causing microorganisms. Even

the supergerms are vulnerable to these lifesaving coconut derivatives

[medium chain fatty acids and monoglycerides ]. Coconut oil is, in essence,

a natural antibacterial, antiviral, antifungal, and antiprotozoal food. "

[The medium chain fatty acids, esp. lauric acid, disrupt the cell membranes

of the lipid coated microorganisms, which include many of the bad guys. The

beneficial microorganisms usually do not have a lipid coat, so survive in

the presence of MCFA. This explains why tribes in the tropics who often

consume coconut or similar foods survive with all the dangerous organisms

that thrive in the tropics, while outsiders who move there bringing their

usual foods succumb to disease so quickly. I'm bringing some coconut oil

with me when I go to Tanzania next week!]

Kris

[Guest guest]

At 07:24 AM 9/16/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>----------->i don't see how dipping it in vinegar would kill the infamous

>acid-resistant e.coli O157:H7 strain...? although, if the meat's strictly

>grass-fed, that strain should not even be a concern. vinegar pH is around 2

>as is our stomach acid, and this strain has mutated to be stomach acid

>resistant, but is found only in cattle with low stomach pH, which results

>from grain feeding.

>

>researchers from Cornell, dipped e.coli from grain-fed cattle in a pH 2.0

>medium and they didn't die. see:

><http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:LTHEIwHeMjkC:www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc>h\

ttp://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:LTHEIwHeMjkC:www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc

>98/9_19_98/Food.htm+human+stomach+acid+pH & hl=en

>

>of course, if you eat just grass-fed, the e.coli count is likely only a

>fraction of that of grain-fed and they tend to be far less virulent.

Well, that's a point. I did read something where they used live lactobaccilli

instead of vinegar for better results. My jerky is kefir-soaked for a couple

of days, so I don't worry about it (I think the kefir-spartans are a

decent match for e-coli any day!).

I don't know much about the e-coli issue, but I don't think it is

quite as simple as some imply. I asked my doctor about it and

his take was that out of the millions of people exposed (in the

Odwalla incident), only 50 got sick, which would mean there

is " another factor " (low stomach acid? gut bacteria?)

involved. I tend to agree. Also many of the people who got

sick didn't get it from the meat (or the orange juice), they

caught it from other members of the family (who presumably

were not very sick).

Heidi

[Guest guest]

I belive that the lemon juice in the marinade would largely kill any

parasites present in the meat. That is how i prepare my raw fish.

Regardless, i still do a parasite cleanse twice yearly, as well as making

sure my immune system is firing, chris

>From: " kili94 " <lm324@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: olive oil marinade & grilling

>Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 01:06:57 -0000

>

> > I'm wondering why you would be grilling with such high heat that

>you need to worry about the olive oil. I would think you want the

>meat rare (healthier and more tender), so the surface of the meat

>would get some nice browning,

> > but not get all that high in heat. Better to use a moderate fire

>rather than get the surface of the meat too brown/black.

> >

> > Kris

>

>Hi Kris,

>I never grill, but was doing this for a party. I was marinating the

>meat, someone else was doing the grilling. After I got the meat in

>the marinade, I started wondering about the grilling temperature.

>

>So, is a moderate heat fine for olive oil? I know you need to be

>careful with vegetable oils and heat; I don't know the parameters,

>though.

>

>As for eating the meat rare, I need to get over my fears of

>parasites! I know Sally says 2 weeks in the freezer will kill

>parasites. Hulda says that's not true. Now, I just read an

>interview with Aajonus who says the problems with raw meat and

>parasites is a myth! I'm not sure whom to believe.

>

>My health problems all began with multiple parasitic infestations

>while in Kenya. It took forever for me to get rid of my final case

>of giardia (of course, this came from water not meat). It was a

>scary time as I was literally wasting away. Now I'm a little

>paranoid about parasites!

>

>I've been drinking raw goat's milk kefir for about a month now, so

>I'm pleased to have that source of raw animal food. I'd like to get

>up my courage to do the raw meat. Does anyone know of any studies

>that might ally my fears? (Theoretically, I agree it would be good

>to eat.)

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> I belive that the lemon juice in the marinade would largely kill

any

> parasites present in the meat. That is how i prepare my raw fish.

Does the lemon juice just kill the parasites on the surface of the

meat, or does it work its way through all of the meat when marinating?

[Guest guest]

As i understand, it kills them right through, if you leave it long enough,

ie overnight. thats what i was told anyway. I belive that one of the reasons

Japanese traditionally consumed Wasabi (Horseradish) was for a similar

purpose, as well as to assist digestion.

>From: " kili94 " <lm324@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: olive oil marinade & grilling

>Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 00:30:19 -0000

>

>

> > I belive that the lemon juice in the marinade would largely kill

>any

> > parasites present in the meat. That is how i prepare my raw fish.

>

>

>Does the lemon juice just kill the parasites on the surface of the

>meat, or does it work its way through all of the meat when marinating?

>

>

>

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