a's Response to CNN Article

[Guest guest]

From: " a "

<david_stipp@...>

Subject: Your article: Listening to Prozac

Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:29:56 -0000

Hi.

An interesting article.

( http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/15/news/fortune500/prozac_fortune )

Just a few comments:

" ...Pfizer (Research) declined to comment on the suit, but a spokesman

asserted that there is " no scientifically based " evidence suggesting Zoloft

can induce suicidal acts.... "

Pfizer admitted themselves that Zoloft can cause akathisia. As akathisia

can lead to suicidality, then haven't they therefore more or less admitted

that Zoloft can cause suicidality?

(See comments starting near the bottom of page 17 of this pdf file:

http://www.ssri-uksupport.com/files/pfizerzoloftdefencemanual.pdf )

And on the phrase " scientifically based " itself - oh dear. They promote

SSRIs as correcting a chemical imbalance in the brain, serotonin, purporting

that serotonin causes depression. Now for the really SCIENTIFIC bit:

" ...In May 2003, the maker of the SSRI Paxil, GlaxoKline ( " GSK " ),

announced that it was withdrawing claims contained in its promotional

material for Paxil (called Seroxat in Ireland and the UK) that the drug

worked by normalizing levels of serotonin. GSK acknowledged that the link

between depression and serotonin levels is unproven and that such claims

" were not consistent with the scientific literature. "

( See footnote on Page 8 of this PFIZER ZOLOFT complaint for the above

statement:

http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/Zoloft/CalifAttyGen/PFIZERCOMPLAINT.pdf

)

Then there's Glaxo's comment (in your article) on what their

" discontinuation " symptoms (commonly to us ordinary human beings and also

known in the illicit drug world as " WITHDRAWAL " symptoms) :

" ...Glaxo concedes that " discontinuation " symptoms may occur when people

quit taking Paxil, but says they are mostly " mild " to " moderate. " The

company denies allegations that Paxil is addictive, or that it has tried to

hide data on side effects.... "

NOT ADDICTIVE?

Isn't that just their play on words - anything to protect their profits?

(See http://www.ssri-uksupport.com/files/GSKmoneybagmemo.pdf where GSK

aptly explain in one cartoon)

and

(See http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/58092-DH.htm

" ...Therapeutic / Normal Dose Dependence

One of the key terms in the current debate is the term dependence. In its

current usage, as framed in for instance DSM-IV, dependence is coloured by

the term drug dependence, which appeared in the late 1960s, as outlined

above. Drug dependence in this sense describes effects visible in animal

models where certain drugs can be seen to produce self-administration. This

self-administration has been interpreted loosely subsequently as meaning

that these drugs can produce craving. Opiates and alcohol produce drug

dependence of this type but neither the benzodiazepines nor the SSRIs

produce such effects.

This particular concept of drug dependence solved a major problem in the

drug abuse field in the 1970s/80s in that it indicated why cocaine and the

amphetamines continued to be abused, even though they are not linked to

classic withdrawal problems.

A possible human model to understand the potential effects of therapeutic

drug dependence, in contrast to the animal models of drug dependence above,

and furthermore a model that indicates how SSRI intake might give rise to

enduring withdrawal problems comes from the example of tardive dyskinesia.

Tardive dyskinesia is used here as one manifestation of changes linked to

therapeutic drug dependence. It is not the only manifestation.

Tardive dyskinesia was outlined first in the 1960s, and initially called

persistent dyskinesia. Just as with other manifestations of therapeutic drug

dependence, tardive dyskinesia may or may not show features of tolerance. In

many cases when the problem appears in the course of treatment it can be

resolved by increasing the dose of the drug used in treatment. Tardive

dyskinesia is most clearly manifested on dose reduction, or on drug

withdrawal, and it can be handled readily at this point by reinstituting

treatment - as might be expected with a withdrawal syndrome.

While the current name 'tardive' emphasizes the emergence of this syndrome

later in the course of treatment, the original name 'persistent' emphasized

the fact that this problem can persist for months or years after withdrawal

of treatment. Furthermore, unlike many problems that appear on withdrawal

that have been dismissed as subjective and indistinguishable from the

original problem, tardive dyskinesia cannot be dismissed in this way.... )

DENIED IT HAS TRIED TO HIDE DATA ON SIDE EFFECTS?

They why in their clinical trials did they mis-code suicidality and

homicidality as " nausea " instead of plain naming it suicidality or

homicidality? (Not just Glaxo, but Pfizer and Lilly's on THEIR SSRI data

too). Have you seen how high the " nausea " figures are compared to the other

'reported' 'official' side effects on their data - I wonder what proportion

of those listed experiencing " nausea " actually experienced suicidality and

homicidality?

(See http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/58096-DH%20to%20WARK.htm

" ...Reports on these trials list patients who have committed suicide, and

list those patients as being of a certain age and as having committed

suicide at a certain point during the trial, when the patient in question

has a very different age and the event in question happened at a completely

different point during the trial... " .

" ...Miscoding of suicidal act as emotional lability... "

" ...Lilly have resorted to treatment non-response and a range of other

headings to code what happened... "

" ...records on Prozac, Seroxat/Paxil and Lustral/Zoloft, you will find cases

of homicidality coded as nausea for instance... "

" ...Discontinuation of patients from studies for primary adverse effects

such as nausea when in fact there has been a suicidal act;... "

" ...But it is also worth adding specifically that this has been a feature of

all trials of Zoloft/Lustral, Seroxat/Paxil and Prozac throughout, as far as

I can make out... " )

MILD AND MODERATE " discontinuation " symptoms? If only the authors of

comments like Glaxo's could experience them - at their very worst

preferably.

http://www.petitiononline.com/oky71/petition.html

http://www.petitiononline.com/lilpro

http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/petition.html

Thanks for your time :-)

P Gardiner

[Guest guest]

From: " a "

<david_stipp@...>

Subject: Your article: Listening to Prozac

Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:29:56 -0000

Hi.

An interesting article.

( http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/15/news/fortune500/prozac_fortune )

Just a few comments:

" ...Pfizer (Research) declined to comment on the suit, but a spokesman

asserted that there is " no scientifically based " evidence suggesting Zoloft

can induce suicidal acts.... "

Pfizer admitted themselves that Zoloft can cause akathisia. As akathisia

can lead to suicidality, then haven't they therefore more or less admitted

that Zoloft can cause suicidality?

(See comments starting near the bottom of page 17 of this pdf file:

http://www.ssri-uksupport.com/files/pfizerzoloftdefencemanual.pdf )

And on the phrase " scientifically based " itself - oh dear. They promote

SSRIs as correcting a chemical imbalance in the brain, serotonin, purporting

that serotonin causes depression. Now for the really SCIENTIFIC bit:

" ...In May 2003, the maker of the SSRI Paxil, GlaxoKline ( " GSK " ),

announced that it was withdrawing claims contained in its promotional

material for Paxil (called Seroxat in Ireland and the UK) that the drug

worked by normalizing levels of serotonin. GSK acknowledged that the link

between depression and serotonin levels is unproven and that such claims

" were not consistent with the scientific literature. "

( See footnote on Page 8 of this PFIZER ZOLOFT complaint for the above

statement:

http://www.baumhedlundlaw.com/media/ssri/Zoloft/CalifAttyGen/PFIZERCOMPLAINT.pdf

)

Then there's Glaxo's comment (in your article) on what their

" discontinuation " symptoms (commonly to us ordinary human beings and also

known in the illicit drug world as " WITHDRAWAL " symptoms) :

" ...Glaxo concedes that " discontinuation " symptoms may occur when people

quit taking Paxil, but says they are mostly " mild " to " moderate. " The

company denies allegations that Paxil is addictive, or that it has tried to

hide data on side effects.... "

NOT ADDICTIVE?

Isn't that just their play on words - anything to protect their profits?

(See http://www.ssri-uksupport.com/files/GSKmoneybagmemo.pdf where GSK

aptly explain in one cartoon)

and

(See http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/58092-DH.htm

" ...Therapeutic / Normal Dose Dependence

One of the key terms in the current debate is the term dependence. In its

current usage, as framed in for instance DSM-IV, dependence is coloured by

the term drug dependence, which appeared in the late 1960s, as outlined

above. Drug dependence in this sense describes effects visible in animal

models where certain drugs can be seen to produce self-administration. This

self-administration has been interpreted loosely subsequently as meaning

that these drugs can produce craving. Opiates and alcohol produce drug

dependence of this type but neither the benzodiazepines nor the SSRIs

produce such effects.

This particular concept of drug dependence solved a major problem in the

drug abuse field in the 1970s/80s in that it indicated why cocaine and the

amphetamines continued to be abused, even though they are not linked to

classic withdrawal problems.

A possible human model to understand the potential effects of therapeutic

drug dependence, in contrast to the animal models of drug dependence above,

and furthermore a model that indicates how SSRI intake might give rise to

enduring withdrawal problems comes from the example of tardive dyskinesia.

Tardive dyskinesia is used here as one manifestation of changes linked to

therapeutic drug dependence. It is not the only manifestation.

Tardive dyskinesia was outlined first in the 1960s, and initially called

persistent dyskinesia. Just as with other manifestations of therapeutic drug

dependence, tardive dyskinesia may or may not show features of tolerance. In

many cases when the problem appears in the course of treatment it can be

resolved by increasing the dose of the drug used in treatment. Tardive

dyskinesia is most clearly manifested on dose reduction, or on drug

withdrawal, and it can be handled readily at this point by reinstituting

treatment - as might be expected with a withdrawal syndrome.

While the current name 'tardive' emphasizes the emergence of this syndrome

later in the course of treatment, the original name 'persistent' emphasized

the fact that this problem can persist for months or years after withdrawal

of treatment. Furthermore, unlike many problems that appear on withdrawal

that have been dismissed as subjective and indistinguishable from the

original problem, tardive dyskinesia cannot be dismissed in this way.... )

DENIED IT HAS TRIED TO HIDE DATA ON SIDE EFFECTS?

They why in their clinical trials did they mis-code suicidality and

homicidality as " nausea " instead of plain naming it suicidality or

homicidality? (Not just Glaxo, but Pfizer and Lilly's on THEIR SSRI data

too). Have you seen how high the " nausea " figures are compared to the other

'reported' 'official' side effects on their data - I wonder what proportion

of those listed experiencing " nausea " actually experienced suicidality and

homicidality?

(See http://www.socialaudit.org.uk/58096-DH%20to%20WARK.htm

" ...Reports on these trials list patients who have committed suicide, and

list those patients as being of a certain age and as having committed

suicide at a certain point during the trial, when the patient in question

has a very different age and the event in question happened at a completely

different point during the trial... " .

" ...Miscoding of suicidal act as emotional lability... "

" ...Lilly have resorted to treatment non-response and a range of other

headings to code what happened... "

" ...records on Prozac, Seroxat/Paxil and Lustral/Zoloft, you will find cases

of homicidality coded as nausea for instance... "

" ...Discontinuation of patients from studies for primary adverse effects

such as nausea when in fact there has been a suicidal act;... "

" ...But it is also worth adding specifically that this has been a feature of

all trials of Zoloft/Lustral, Seroxat/Paxil and Prozac throughout, as far as

I can make out... " )

MILD AND MODERATE " discontinuation " symptoms? If only the authors of

comments like Glaxo's could experience them - at their very worst

preferably.

http://www.petitiononline.com/oky71/petition.html

http://www.petitiononline.com/lilpro

http://www.petitiononline.com/effexor/petition.html

Thanks for your time :-)

P Gardiner