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I think that it would be great in some respects and I worry in others

like if women started getting on here hacking on us because we

basically are against implants.

Is there a way that it can be read by the public but that you have to

join to post? That would be a good solution, I think it might help

more women get the information that I certainly wish I had known

before I got implanted, had I read this stuff I don't think I would

have even considered implants. I think we need to help save others

from the same fate in everyway we can, but I also want to make sure

people feel safe and comfortable coming here and expressing there

issues.

Tough debate

In @y..., " Patty " <fdp@l...> wrote:

> Well, I can do this. I guess I would like to have input from all

the group

> members regarding this idea and find out what you all would like to

do.

>

> Maybe we can get pros and cons for both sides.

> Patty

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <cjheer@i...>

> < @y...>

> Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 5:59 PM

> Subject: Re: open to the public

>

>

> > I agree with you completely i would have to ask Patty how we can

do

> > that.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > In @y..., " S. Leret " <lsleret@a...> wrote:

> > > I would like to make a suggestion to the support group. I have

> > participated

> > > in others chat groups like this one but on different subjects

and

> > they

> > > allow the public or anybody to read the internal messages even

> > though the

> > > person has not signed in. In other words, the messages are open

to

> > the

> > > public for only reading but nobody can write to the forum unless

> > she has

> > > signed in. In this way it will be easier for more women to learn

> > about the

> > > risks of breast surgery. It will be easier for the search tools

to

> > find our

> > > stories and subsequently the web site.

> > >

> > > Best regards,

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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This forum is set up so that nobody can post unless they are a member, so

that is not really the issue.

The issue is how widely we want these messages available. Specifically, I

am thinking about Ilena's posts, which she has given me her blessing on--she

doesn't mind her posts appearing on this forum. However, we need to be

aware of the reason for the privacy of Ilena's group in the first place--it

is a group of women who want to stay in contact with each other, with Ilena

being the go-between in order to protect their identity. Some have had

legal cases in which it is important that their identity remain unknown or

face severe repercussions from the manufacturers, including the loss of any

monetary award. Gag orders have prevented them from speaking publicy about

the atrocities of their experience.

I know that is not possible in this group, due to the configuration of

groups. This is a public forum...anyone can join. Members identities are

available on the member list, at this time, for my eyes only. (I can make

that public, but chose not to.) I realize that anyone can create a bogus

email id and join this list to infiltrate it, so that is something that

cannot be avoided. The real advantage of having a list owner/moderator is

that anyone that creates dissension and harrasses us can be banned

permanently.

So, back to the question....do we want our posts available to all the world

to see, or just our members? I don't mind if the letters are available, but

how do you all feel?

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: <cjheer@...>

< >

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 7:09 AM

Subject: Re: open to the public

> I think that it would be great in some respects and I worry in others

> like if women started getting on here hacking on us because we

> basically are against implants.

>

> Is there a way that it can be read by the public but that you have to

> join to post? That would be a good solution, I think it might help

> more women get the information that I certainly wish I had known

> before I got implanted, had I read this stuff I don't think I would

> have even considered implants. I think we need to help save others

> from the same fate in everyway we can, but I also want to make sure

> people feel safe and comfortable coming here and expressing there

> issues.

>

> Tough debate

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> In @y..., " Patty " <fdp@l...> wrote:

> > Well, I can do this. I guess I would like to have input from all

> the group

> > members regarding this idea and find out what you all would like to

> do.

> >

> > Maybe we can get pros and cons for both sides.

> > Patty

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: <cjheer@i...>

> > < @y...>

> > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2001 5:59 PM

> > Subject: Re: open to the public

> >

> >

> > > I agree with you completely i would have to ask Patty how we can

> do

> > > that.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > In @y..., " S. Leret " <lsleret@a...> wrote:

> > > > I would like to make a suggestion to the support group. I have

> > > participated

> > > > in others chat groups like this one but on different subjects

> and

> > > they

> > > > allow the public or anybody to read the internal messages even

> > > though the

> > > > person has not signed in. In other words, the messages are open

> to

> > > the

> > > > public for only reading but nobody can write to the forum unless

> > > she has

> > > > signed in. In this way it will be easier for more women to learn

> > > about the

> > > > risks of breast surgery. It will be easier for the search tools

> to

> > > find our

> > > > stories and subsequently the web site.

> > > >

> > > > Best regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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yes this is true, and look at how we have grown in numbers I am

amazed and of course I have been here from the very begining in July

2000 and it has grown to over 100, barely ha ha...but I think we need

to be linked to more sites, I wrote to at implant info and

asked her to link us to her site since she gets tons of women

researching implants, but she never did it and blew me off.....Patty

can we try again to get her to link us? I mean she says she is open

to all sides so she should be willing.....then again so many of those

women call us ANIT BA WOMEN......it is so easy to ignore us when you

are feeling well, you cannot imagine the hell it is to really be ill

till it happens to you, it is like being a kid you think you will

never ever be a teenager and then it happens, ha haha

In @y..., eRene@a... wrote:

> Patty,

>

> I have to agree w/ Martha. While it is definately a

> good idea to have our information more readily

> available, I cringe to think what would happen if it got

> in the wrong hands.

>

> e

> > Hi Patty,

> >

> > I definitely prefer this site to remain the way you have it!

> >

> > That's my 2-cents worth!

> >

> > Blessings,

> > MM / NSIF

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Hmmm, I wonder what would do....I ran into her at the March 2000 FDA

meeting in Washington, and asked her why she wouldn't let us post our

stories on her website. This was right in front of Hager, the NBC

news reporter who was about to do my interview. She acted all nicey nice

and denied that she wasn't letting us post our stories, but I have

experienced nothing but abuse there since then.

Also, she has her own group cult following, if you've checked it out.

They do monthly groups for those anticipating implant surgery. There was

the August Angels, then the September Superstars, now the October Pumpkins.

They don't want to hear from victims like us, and their verbal abuse is

merciless.

I hate the generalize, because there have been some women sincerely seeking

more valid information, but for the most part I have found the women on

's groups to be giggling, giddy, foolish bimbos, with no desire to be

informed of the real risks that we have already been through. It is sad.

If any of you desire to politely ask her if she would entertain the thought

of putting our link on her website, please do. She already knows who I am,

and even though I have done nothing wrong to offend her, I highly doubt that

she would comply with my request.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: <cjheer@...>

< >

Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:41 AM

Subject: Re: open to the public

> yes this is true, and look at how we have grown in numbers I am

> amazed and of course I have been here from the very begining in July

> 2000 and it has grown to over 100, barely ha ha...but I think we need

> to be linked to more sites, I wrote to at implant info and

> asked her to link us to her site since she gets tons of women

> researching implants, but she never did it and blew me off.....Patty

> can we try again to get her to link us? I mean she says she is open

> to all sides so she should be willing.....then again so many of those

> women call us ANIT BA WOMEN......it is so easy to ignore us when you

> are feeling well, you cannot imagine the hell it is to really be ill

> till it happens to you, it is like being a kid you think you will

> never ever be a teenager and then it happens, ha haha

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Well I will do this cause I have nothing to lose anyhow and I don't

care what they say ...the funny thing Patty is I was on there today

and I noticed that all the names have changed, wonder where all the

regulars went off to? I used to go there all the time while I still

had my implants, so that was a year and five months of being on there

pretty much everyday so I knew allot of the same people posted, I was

there today and didn't recognize one name. The problem is, and I was

once there too, I didn't want to hear anything when I was getting my

implants, I was closed minded about the entire thing I just thought,

it isn't going to happen to me and if I dwell on it I will chicken

out.

I think that is the thinking of most of those women, I don't

necessarily think they are bimbos, it may seem that way, I think they

are just like i was naive and wanting big boobs and feeling like it

has to be safe, and with the lack of real info presented in a non

threatening way it would appear that way. It is unfortunate that

implants are seen as safe devices and that the FDA put the seal of

approval on them making them even more attractive to so many.

The biggest problem also is that many of the sites set up by some of

the for lack of a better work...Anit BA women are not put together in

a manner that is professional. Example, to me the silicone holacaust

site is awful, I mean it has little gouls and things on it...that

just makes our message seem silly and unbelievable, and the photos on

there in my own opinion do not look like they were recent or would

apply to most situation with todays medical technology. I think that

a realistic and mature mesage without scare tactics and with stories

and real people and real pictures like ours on this site is a much

more productive way to inform women than to frighten them.

While it is tempting to want to scare someone out of what we have

been through, at the same time it is much the same as telling a

teenager not to date a certain person or something like that, it

almost pushes them to do it.

I think by being open minded, honest, and not pushy with scare

tactics we have a much better chance of informing women of dangers of

implants.

Anyhow it is hard to do this and i am still trying to find ways of

spreading the message without offending anyone.

God bless

In @y..., " Patty " <fdp@l...> wrote:

> Hmmm, I wonder what would do....I ran into her at the March

2000 FDA

> meeting in Washington, and asked her why she wouldn't let us post

our

> stories on her website. This was right in front of Hager,

the NBC

> news reporter who was about to do my interview. She acted all

nicey nice

> and denied that she wasn't letting us post our stories, but I have

> experienced nothing but abuse there since then.

>

> Also, she has her own group cult following, if you've checked

it out.

> They do monthly groups for those anticipating implant surgery.

There was

> the August Angels, then the September Superstars, now the October

Pumpkins.

> They don't want to hear from victims like us, and their verbal

abuse is

> merciless.

>

> I hate the generalize, because there have been some women sincerely

seeking

> more valid information, but for the most part I have found the

women on

> 's groups to be giggling, giddy, foolish bimbos, with no

desire to be

> informed of the real risks that we have already been through. It

is sad.

>

> If any of you desire to politely ask her if she would entertain the

thought

> of putting our link on her website, please do. She already knows

who I am,

> and even though I have done nothing wrong to offend her, I highly

doubt that

> she would comply with my request.

> Patty

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: <cjheer@i...>

> < @y...>

> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 8:41 AM

> Subject: Re: open to the public

>

>

> > yes this is true, and look at how we have grown in numbers I am

> > amazed and of course I have been here from the very begining in

July

> > 2000 and it has grown to over 100, barely ha ha...but I think we

need

> > to be linked to more sites, I wrote to at implant info and

> > asked her to link us to her site since she gets tons of women

> > researching implants, but she never did it and blew me

off.....Patty

> > can we try again to get her to link us? I mean she says she is

open

> > to all sides so she should be willing.....then again so many of

those

> > women call us ANIT BA WOMEN......it is so easy to ignore us when

you

> > are feeling well, you cannot imagine the hell it is to really be

ill

> > till it happens to you, it is like being a kid you think you will

> > never ever be a teenager and then it happens, ha haha

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I agree, , I think some of the webpages are more emotionally based on

fear and scare tactics that frighten women away rather than presenting the

truth about implants in a way that draws them in.

I know that when I first saw some of the implant sites I flat out rejected

the idea that implants were as bad as they were making them out to be,

because if they were, why was the media telling us implants were safe? Why

were they allowed to be put into women's bodies? Alot of times women just

aren't ready to hear that implants are as bad as they truthfully are.

That's what makes this so hard.

Patty

----- Original Message -----

From: <cjheer@...>

< >

Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 10:03 AM

Subject: Re: open to the public

> Well I will do this cause I have nothing to lose anyhow and I don't

> care what they say ...the funny thing Patty is I was on there today

> and I noticed that all the names have changed, wonder where all the

> regulars went off to? I used to go there all the time while I still

> had my implants, so that was a year and five months of being on there

> pretty much everyday so I knew allot of the same people posted, I was

> there today and didn't recognize one name. The problem is, and I was

> once there too, I didn't want to hear anything when I was getting my

> implants, I was closed minded about the entire thing I just thought,

> it isn't going to happen to me and if I dwell on it I will chicken

> out.

>

> I think that is the thinking of most of those women, I don't

> necessarily think they are bimbos, it may seem that way, I think they

> are just like i was naive and wanting big boobs and feeling like it

> has to be safe, and with the lack of real info presented in a non

> threatening way it would appear that way. It is unfortunate that

> implants are seen as safe devices and that the FDA put the seal of

> approval on them making them even more attractive to so many.

>

> The biggest problem also is that many of the sites set up by some of

> the for lack of a better work...Anit BA women are not put together in

> a manner that is professional. Example, to me the silicone holacaust

> site is awful, I mean it has little gouls and things on it...that

> just makes our message seem silly and unbelievable, and the photos on

> there in my own opinion do not look like they were recent or would

> apply to most situation with todays medical technology. I think that

> a realistic and mature mesage without scare tactics and with stories

> and real people and real pictures like ours on this site is a much

> more productive way to inform women than to frighten them.

>

> While it is tempting to want to scare someone out of what we have

> been through, at the same time it is much the same as telling a

> teenager not to date a certain person or something like that, it

> almost pushes them to do it.

>

> I think by being open minded, honest, and not pushy with scare

> tactics we have a much better chance of informing women of dangers of

> implants.

>

> Anyhow it is hard to do this and i am still trying to find ways of

> spreading the message without offending anyone.

>

> God bless

>

>

>

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