Re: Native nutrition FAQ?

[Guest guest]

---I've been reading messages on this site for nearly 6 months and I

will say one thing about it. There are lots of opinions, some of

which I no longer consider. However even those MAY be correct. There

are lots of friendly, useful exchanges of information as well. So I

question and answer frequently but have not determined exactly what

to eat from info on this site. Info has been helpful though. Best

regards, Dennis

In @y..., a hecht <ahecht_2000@y...> wrote:

>

>

Hello, I am relatively new too this, and not totally

> convinced, although I've been forced to somewhat

> reexamine my long-held beliefs. Anyway, I did get to

> scan _Nourishing Traditions_ but had to return it

> before I had fully absorbed it. My question: Is there

> a FAQ somewhere that would tell one what the main

> tenets of this whole tendency are? What should one

> eat, what should one not eat; in either case, why?

>

> For example, in another post a few minutes back, I saw

> someone attribute the ugliness of some woman's child

> to the family's consumption of fruit, veggies, and

> grains. DOes this mean we should *not* eat these items

> at all, or only when slathered with a thick coating of

> lard?

>

> Sorry if I sound a little flippant, but all this

> reminds me of the Woody movie " Sleeper " where he

> wakes up hundreds of years in the future and finds out

> that smoking is good for the lungs.

>

> Just so you know, I have been a lacto-vegetarian off

> and on since I was a teenager (40 yrs. old now), and I

> am regularly taken for a very fit 25-28 yr. old. My

> child is a lifelong vegetarian, and he consistently

> brings home straight As and impressive test scores, as

> well as a recent Presidential physical fitness award.

> BTW, he was the only child in his class who could run

> a mile at all, much less in under eight minutes.

>

> Best regards,

>

> A.H.

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

a hecht wrote:

>

> Hello, I am relatively new too this, and not totally

> convinced, although I've been forced to somewhat

> reexamine my long-held beliefs. Anyway, I did get to

> scan _Nourishing Traditions_ but had to return it

> before I had fully absorbed it. My question: Is there

> a FAQ somewhere that would tell one what the main

> tenets of this whole tendency are? What should one

> eat, what should one not eat; in either case, why?

>

I think the Weston Price Foundation web site would do --

www.westonaprice.org

> Just so you know, I have been a lacto-vegetarian off

> and on since I was a teenager (40 yrs. old now), and I

> am regularly taken for a very fit 25-28 yr. old. My

> child is a lifelong vegetarian, and he consistently

> brings home straight As and impressive test scores, as

> well as a recent Presidential physical fitness award.

> BTW, he was the only child in his class who could run

> a mile at all, much less in under eight minutes.

It seems that vegetarianism, in your implementation, seems to be working

fine for you.

Roman

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:47:03 -0700 (PDT) a hecht <ahecht_2000@...>

writes:

>

> Hello, I am relatively new too this, and not totally

> convinced, although I've been forced to somewhat

> reexamine my long-held beliefs. Anyway, I did get to

> scan _Nourishing Traditions_ but had to return it

> before I had fully absorbed it. My question: Is there

> a FAQ somewhere that would tell one what the main

> tenets of this whole tendency are? What should one

> eat, what should one not eat; in either case, why?

>

Dear A,

Check out message #336 from this group.

One thing not mentioned in this message is the quality of the animal

products, as the way most livestock, chickens, etc are raised today is

not healthy and not comparable in quality to traditional animal products.

My impression from NT is that all whole foods are good, but we've gotten

away from the wisdom traditionally used in preparation and also in

calling some traditional foods " bad, " e.g. red meat, whole milk, and in

calling new fangled/highly processed foods " good, " e.g., soy milk, soy

cheese, whole grain dry cereals).

The problem with grains is, again, a problem with our society's current

preparation (and processing) of them. NT says throw out the boxed

cereals and eat porridge -- just make sure you prepare it

carefully/traditionally!

Hope this helps.

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[Guest guest]

At 12:47 PM 6/13/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>For example, in another post a few minutes back, I saw

>someone attribute the ugliness of some woman's child

>to the family's consumption of fruit, veggies, and

>grains. DOes this mean we should *not* eat these items

>at all, or only when slathered with a thick coating of

>lard?

The book NT is a great book, and I've really enjoyed it. But it's also something

of an " encyclopedia " -- that is, it covers a LOT of ground and gives a lot of

leeway as to how to apply it. Sally gives a list of " rules " at the beginning

that I kind of like, but within those rules you can still create a lot of

different kinds of diets. This is a MUCH different approach than the most

popular books -- say, Atkins, where it is laid out exactly what to eat (at least

in terms of grams of carbs).

The pieces of NT that have most changed our lives are:

1. Eating cultured foods.

2. Eating better fats. (Note: NOT slathering lard on everything).

We've always eaten lots of vegies and still do. I've never eaten many grains and

still don't -- but it's not an NT thing. I eat raw fish in the form of lox, and

always have, and my steak is maybe a bit rarer.

I find the amount of fat I want/need varies and pretty much settles itself out.

Maybe some people need to eat loads of it -- but our diet isn't much different

than the one recommended by, say, MFK Fisher at the middle of the century, when

people usually did put butter on their vegies and cream on their blueberries and

had eggs fried in butter.

But sometimes all the talk about raw meat and fats makes it sound like everyone

is eating like Esquimoux -- which can sound very un-appealing. I think that can

be a healthy diet, but it's not the essence of NT, which is, after all, a COOK

book. We eat really nice food at our house, and it's gotten yummier since we are

doing more NT-style cooking.

Heidi Schuppenhauer

Trillium Custom Software Inc.

heidis@...

[Guest guest]

> My question: Is there

> a FAQ somewhere that would tell one what the main

> tenets of this whole tendency are? What should one

> eat, what should one not eat; in either case, why?

>

> For example, in another post a few minutes back, I saw

> someone attribute the ugliness of some woman's child

> to the family's consumption of fruit, veggies, and

> grains. DOes this mean we should *not* eat these items

> at all, or only when slathered with a thick coating of

> lard?

I don't think there's an FAQ anywhere *that I could recommend*.

I do want to point out though, that it wasn't the family's

consumption of fruit, veggies, and grains that the poster was

denigrating. It was A) the family's *lack* of consumption of animal

products (not *necessarily* meat, eggs and milk count too) and the

consumption of everything (mainly the grains) in a raw state.

You say that you're a lacto-ovo vegetarian. I don't think you likely

need to change much. The only major questions are: do you include

plenty of fermented foods (yogurt, unpasteurized sauerkraut, kimchee,

etc), do you minimize the amount of processed foods and sweeteners in

your diet, and do you properly prepare your grains and legumes by

soaking (or sprouting or sourdoughing) them prior to cooking? Meat's

not technically necessary, but animal products are...and it just so

happens that eggs and milk are a couple of the better ones. They

provide plenty of fat, B-12, high quality protein, vitamin D, and pre-

formed vitamin A. It may not be exactly *optimal*, but it's most

definitely adequate to meet your needs if you consume enough to get

all of your vitamin A,D, and B-12.

NT isn't really about what to avoid. It's about what to make sure

you get and how to prepare it to make sure that you can absorb and

utilize it. Animal fats, fat soluble vitamins and B12 are the main

things to *make sure* you get (most people already get the other

things). Preparing your seed-foods (grains, legumes, nuts, etc) by

soaking, sprouting, or sourdoughing is how you prepare it. NT

actually encourages consumption of fruits and vegetables...especially

lacto-fermented fruits and vegetables.

You asked about an FAQ. I said there really wasn't a good one. What

I will say is: there is a book that NT was mostly based on. It's

called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration(NAPD) by Weston A. Price.

To understand what NT is attempting to get people to do, I'd suggest

reading NAPD. It outlines the studies the Dr Price did of various

native groups and how their diets affected their health.

Good luck!

[Guest guest]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 19:52:18 -0700 Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@...> writes:

But sometimes all the talk about raw meat and fats makes it sound like

everyone is eating like Esquimoux -- which can sound very un-appealing. I

think that can be a healthy diet, but it's not the essence of NT, which

is, after all, a COOK book. We eat really nice food at our house, and

it's gotten yummier since we are doing more NT-style cooking.

******Perhaps, but I think the essence of WAP/NT can be summarized in a

post I made to another list. I've edited some aspects of it:

I think one only need ask three questions to determine if they are within

the Weston Price paradigm:

1. Does the diet include some form of raw animal food?

2. Does the diet, with very few exceptions, exclude *all* " displacing

foods of modern commerce?

3. Does the diet, in its broad outlines, conceptually fit within Price's

continuum of healthy primitives?

Lets test this.

A. Atkins - no. Ignoring his current sellout with the low carb " starches "

which are decidedly non foods, he nevertheless allows many displacing

foods, including bad fats, just not bad carbs and a somewhat limited

amount of even good carbs. And of course no mention of raw animal foods.

Now does it work for weight loss and other problems? Yes. But is it

within the Price paradigm? No. Although it does move people toward the

eating of whole foods like meat, butter, cream.

B. Paleo - no. That is not to say they don't have a diet that parallels

some of Price's healthy primitives, even while rejecting grains and

dairy. They do, with one exception, no raw animal food. It is not their

rejection of grain and dairy that keeps them out, but their lack of

emphasis on raw animal foods of some sort, even in small quantities. Now

in fairness, there are raw paleos, in which case the above points would

not apply.

C. Primal Dieters - technically yes. These are the followers of Aajonus

Vonderplanitz. Masai and Eskimo style dieters. Lots of raw animal foods!

Do not advocate grain consumption but they certainly fit within the

Weston Price paradigm even though they reject (demonize) grains and dried

animal foods.

D. Nourishing Traditions - of course. But unfortunately many of the self

professed followers of NT do not fit within the paradigm. Why? Because

they ignore the admonitions about raw *animal* foods, making the same

mistake as the Paleo's. It is not a question of amounts but rather that

there is some form of raw animal food in the diet. It was, according to

Dr. Price, one of the distinctives of his healthy primitives.

So it is possible to advocate certain diets and still technically be in

the paradigm (all of the above diets, with the exception of NT, demonize

a food which appears in the Weston Price paradigm), but my suggestion is

to be within the Price paradigm is to philosophically acknowledge and

advocate the above three points regardless of the actual style diet you

follow on the Price continuum. In other words, while it is possible to be

grainless and remain within the Price paradigm, it is also possible to

consume grain as a staple and still be in the Price paradigm. What isn't

possible, IMO, is denying the above three points. To do so may be a good

thing for the individual involved, but it certainly moves one beyond the

realm of Weston A Price and his work.

Food for thought,

Bianca

[Guest guest]

This was a very interesting post on 6/22 and I just got to it. I'm new to WP

philosophies, actually only having the NT book so far. I am assuming raw dairy

counts as raw animal food, right? I don't know if I'll be able to do raw meat

in this life time.

@...

I think one only need ask three questions to determine if they are within

the Weston Price paradigm:

1. Does the diet include some form of raw animal food?

2. Does the diet, with very few exceptions, exclude *all* " displacing

foods of modern commerce?

3. Does the diet, in its broad outlines, conceptually fit within Price's

continuum of healthy primitives?

Lets test this.

A. Atkins - no. Ignoring his current sellout with the low carb " starches "

which are decidedly non foods, he nevertheless allows many displacing

foods, including bad fats, just not bad carbs and a somewhat limited

amount of even good carbs. And of course no mention of raw animal foods.

Now does it work for weight loss and other problems? Yes. But is it

within the Price paradigm? No. Although it does move people toward the

eating of whole foods like meat, butter, cream.

B. Paleo - no. That is not to say they don't have a diet that parallels

some of Price's healthy primitives, even while rejecting grains and

dairy. They do, with one exception, no raw animal food. It is not their

rejection of grain and dairy that keeps them out, but their lack of

emphasis on raw animal foods of some sort, even in small quantities. Now

in fairness, there are raw paleos, in which case the above points would

not apply.

C. Primal Dieters - technically yes. These are the followers of Aajonus

Vonderplanitz. Masai and Eskimo style dieters. Lots of raw animal foods!

Do not advocate grain consumption but they certainly fit within the

Weston Price paradigm even though they reject (demonize) grains and dried

animal foods.

D. Nourishing Traditions - of course. But unfortunately many of the self

professed followers of NT do not fit within the paradigm. Why? Because

they ignore the admonitions about raw *animal* foods, making the same

mistake as the Paleo's. It is not a question of amounts but rather that

there is some form of raw animal food in the diet. It was, according to

Dr. Price, one of the distinctives of his healthy primitives.

So it is possible to advocate certain diets and still technically be in

the paradigm (all of the above diets, with the exception of NT, demonize

a food which appears in the Weston Price paradigm), but my suggestion is

to be within the Price paradigm is to philosophically acknowledge and

advocate the above three points regardless of the actual style diet you

follow on the Price continuum. In other words, while it is possible to be

grainless and remain within the Price paradigm, it is also possible to

consume grain as a staple and still be in the Price paradigm. What isn't

possible, IMO, is denying the above three points. To do so may be a good

thing for the individual involved, but it certainly moves one beyond the

realm of Weston A Price and his work.

Food for thought,

Bianca

[Guest guest]

,

On p.231 of NT Sally says, " The principal source of raw animal protein

for European communities was unpasteurized milk products. " So, raw dairy

counts!

I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days, though. I

remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger meat.

Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at listening

to her body than the rest of us!

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:47:38 -0400 " Braun " <@...> writes:

>

> This was a very interesting post on 6/22 and I just got to it.

> I'm new to WP philosophies, actually only having the NT book so far.

> I am assuming raw dairy counts as raw animal food, right? I don't

> know if I'll be able to do raw meat in this life time.

>

>

> @...

>

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[Guest guest]

Suze,

I had to respond to this! My sister also ate dog food, too!! (That was

definitely gross!)

> >>>>I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days,

> though. I

> remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger

> meat.

> Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at

> listening

> to her body than the rest of us!

>

> ---->my best friend used to do this too! but then again, she also

> ate dog

> food

> i used to eat some raw scallops before my mom put them in the pan.

> still do

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

> mailto:s.fisher22@...

>

>

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[Guest guest]

> This was a very interesting post on 6/22 and I just got to it.

> I'm new to WP philosophies, actually only having the NT book so far.

> I am assuming raw dairy counts as raw animal food, right?

----->yes, it does. raw milk and raw cheese were staples of the swiss

villagers WAP studied. most cultures seemed to ferment all their milk, but

WAP wrote that the swiss children drank a glass of *fresh* raw milk daily.

>>>>I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days, though. I

remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger meat.

Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at listening

to her body than the rest of us!

---->my best friend used to do this too! but then again, she also ate dog

food

i used to eat some raw scallops before my mom put them in the pan. still do

Suze Fisher

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

, I now eat raw hamburger every day. I find it agrees with me. But I get

it from Amish farmers who pasture feed their cattle. I wouldn't dream of

eating supermarket hamburger raw. Also I soak the meat in either whey or citrus

juice. I have a grapefruit tree here in FL, and when the grapefruit are in I

use them. Otherwise, I use whey. Either one would kill harmful bacteria I

believe.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: L123 M123

Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 5:46 PM

Subject: Re: Native nutrition FAQ?

,

On p.231 of NT Sally says, " The principal source of raw animal protein

for European communities was unpasteurized milk products. " So, raw dairy

counts!

I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days, though. I

remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger meat.

Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at listening

to her body than the rest of us!

On Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:47:38 -0400 " Braun " <@...> writes:

>

> This was a very interesting post on 6/22 and I just got to it.

> I'm new to WP philosophies, actually only having the NT book so far.

> I am assuming raw dairy counts as raw animal food, right? I don't

> know if I'll be able to do raw meat in this life time.

>

>

> @...

>

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[Guest guest]

>

> I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days, though. I

> remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger meat.

> Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at listening

> to her body than the rest of us!

>

I was surprised at how good steak tartar was when I made it - we just had

some again tonight. I have local organic beef in the freezer to make it

from. It's wonderful on good rye bread.

Kris

[Guest guest]

I haven't had the courage to try raw meat either and I have no idea how to

go about preparing it. Cooking meat is still a learning experience for me as

I'm an ex veggie.

However I do eat a fair amount of raw fish as we are lucky to live very

clost to two good Japanese resturants and my favourite dish is sashimi,

especially mackrel. I'm told it's soaked in a vinegar although the fish

doesn't taste of vinegar at all. I'm guessing this is a form of fermentation

too.

Den

In article <015e01c23dc4$67584e40$677ba8c0@krisjohn>, Kris wrote:

> >

> > I'm getting up my courage to try raw meat one of these days, though. I

> > remember when I was little, my sister liked to eat raw hamburger meat.

> > Everyone else thought it was gross. I guess she was better at listening

> > to her body than the rest of us!

> >

> I was surprised at how good steak tartar was when I made it - we just had

> some again tonight. I have local organic beef in the freezer to make it

> from. It's wonderful on good rye bread.

>

> Kris

>

[Guest guest]

> , I now eat raw hamburger every day. I find it agrees with me. But I

get it from Amish farmers who pasture feed their cattle. I wouldn't dream

of eating supermarket hamburger raw. Also I soak the meat in either whey or

citrus juice. I have a grapefruit tree here in FL, and when the grapefruit

are in I use them. Otherwise, I use whey. Either one would kill harmful

bacteria I believe.

---How does it work to soak hamburger in whey?

Kris

[Guest guest]

Kris, I don't like the flavor. Maybe it's because I've gotten used to the sour

flavor of the citrus juice on the raw hamburger.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: Kris

Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 11:09 PM

Subject: Re: Native nutrition FAQ?

> , I now eat raw hamburger every day. I find it agrees with me. But I

get it from Amish farmers who pasture feed their cattle. I wouldn't dream

of eating supermarket hamburger raw. Also I soak the meat in either whey or

citrus juice. I have a grapefruit tree here in FL, and when the grapefruit

are in I use them. Otherwise, I use whey. Either one would kill harmful

bacteria I believe.

---How does it work to soak hamburger in whey?

Kris