Guest guest Posted May 19, 2002 Report Share Posted May 19, 2002 Hi Everyone, Does anyone know if there are any health situations where a person must remain on a very low fat diet? I know of someone who had an inflamation of the pancreas and is now on a very low fat diet...forever. This seems insane to me. This sort of stuff drives me a little crazy. I know I would be very upset if I were denied what I consider the very best of foods for excellent health. Thanks in advance, Sheila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 At 04:32 PM 5/19/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, >Does anyone know if there are any health situations where a person >must remain on a very low fat diet? I know of someone who had an >inflamation of the pancreas and is now on a very low fat >diet...forever. This seems insane to me. >This sort of stuff drives me a little crazy. I know I would be very >upset if I were denied what I consider the very best of foods for >excellent health. >Thanks in advance, >Sheila My personal take is that a person with an inflammation of the pancreas should try avoiding GRAINS -- a lot of people who react to wheat/gluten end up with a gall bladder or pancreas problem, due to an autoimmune attack on their own organs. When they give up fat they start eating more bread products and make everything worse! A lot of people on the celiac list found out they had a problem after their gall bladder or pancreas gave out. But if you do have a pancreas or gall bladder problem, the coconut oil is a lot easier to digest. I used to have a lot of problems digesting fat, until I gave up gluten-containing products, and now some time later I can eat all the fat I want. But it takes awhile to heal. And some people never get their bile salts back to normal. This doesn't matter much with VNCO -- it doesn't need enzymes to break it down (they feed it to kids with Cystic Fibrosis a lot, at least the MCT portion, because they don't digest fat well). Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 > >Hi Everyone, > >Does anyone know if there are any health situations where a person > >must remain on a very low fat diet? I know of someone who had an > >inflamation of the pancreas and is now on a very low fat > >diet...forever. This seems insane to me. > >This sort of stuff drives me a little crazy. I know I would be very > >upset if I were denied what I consider the very best of foods for > >excellent health. > >Thanks in advance, > >Sheila > > My personal take is that a person with an inflammation of the pancreas > should try avoiding GRAINS -- a lot of people who react to wheat/gluten end > up with a gall bladder or pancreas problem, due to an autoimmune attack on > their own organs. When they give up fat they start eating more bread > products and make everything worse! A lot of people on the celiac list > found out they had a problem after their gall bladder or pancreas gave o > But if you do have a pancreas or gall bladder problem, the coconut oil is a > lot easier to digest. I used to have a lot of problems digesting fat, until > I gave up gluten-containing products, and now some time later I can eat all > the fat I want. But it takes awhile to heal. And some people never get > their bile salts back to normal. I have dropped gluten containing grains from my diet too. My weight has dropped a little and my digestion has improved. These changes plus the addition of more raw fats is clearing up some long standing digestive problems which had lead to mild arthritis, roseacea, IBS, indigestion and dry skin. Isn't it amazing how a whole foods diet, including raw fats and organic fruits and vegetables and grass fed beef, has the power to bring back health? I don't care if it takes a while to return, I am just thrilled it is possible at all! I am still taking HCL and digestive enzymes, but with the addition of more fermented foods,(NT recipes)maybe someday I will not need these anymore. How do you tell if your bile salts are back to normal? What is the MCT portion you mention below? Thanks for your insightful comments. Sheila This doesn't matter much with VNCO -- it > doesn't need enzymes to break it down (they feed it to kids with Cystic > Fibrosis a lot, at least the MCT portion, because they don't digest fat well). > > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 > > I have dropped gluten containing grains from my diet too. My weight >has dropped a little and my digestion has improved. These changes >plus the addition of more raw fats is clearing up some long standing >digestive problems which had lead to mild arthritis, roseacea, IBS, >indigestion and dry skin. Isn't it amazing how a whole foods diet, >including raw fats and organic fruits and vegetables and grass fed >beef, has the power to bring back health? I don't care if it takes a >while to return, I am just thrilled it is possible at all! I am still >taking HCL and digestive enzymes, but with the addition of more >fermented foods,(NT recipes)maybe someday I will not need these >anymore. Sheila: I'm REALLY INTO Kimchi, esp. now that mine tastes so good (sprain wrist patting self on back). Most meals digest fine with some kimchi. I still find that if I don't eat it with a meal, my stomach feels really " heavy " . I've also found that if I eat finely ground grain (even not gluten-containing) I often get indigestion, although not the rosacea/itchy skin/migraine/foggy brain kind of problem. Yesterday I made muffins for everyone (Rice flour) and they turned out SOOO GOOD I just had to eat one and I've felt " full " all day today. So I'm not sure if everything is " normal " yet or not, I'm sure when I was young I could eat muffins just fine, but maybe I just never felt good and didn't know the difference. >How do you tell if your bile salts are back to normal? I can't tell. But I can eat a nice greasy steak and feel fine, and before I could not. Also, my bowel movements had not been " normal " for 20 years (6 or more a day, foul smelling, greasy -- you don't want the details!) and now they are (except when I eat a muffin. What can I say? Finely ground grains are CURSED! :-) I used to feel fairly quesy all the time -- I would joke that the morning sickness never really went away. That's gone too. I used to be VERY hypoglycemic, and that hasn't been much of a problem either, so I'm guessing my blood sugar is more even. >What is the MCT portion you mention below? Coconut oil, in my understanding, is made mostly of two different oils: MCT (Medium Chain Triglycerides) and Lauric Acid. MCT is sold at GNC for body builders and athletes -- mainly because it gives a lot of energy without being stored as fat. Seriously -- you take it and you feel HOT and ready to run around the block. And it stores energy in the cells of your body and you can work out longer. Anyway, I was using it instead of butter for a long time, then found out about Coconut oil, which is actually cheaper (and better for cooking). MCT is use a lot for kids that can't digest fats. Lauric acid is used for kids that have fungi/bacterial problems. As near as I can tell, coconut oil is about as easy to digest as MCT. My boy used to get specially broken down fats (microlipids) because they figured he had digestive issues, but I'm feeding him coconut oil now and it seems to be working just fine. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 > Coconut oil, in my understanding, is made mostly of two different > oils: MCT (Medium Chain Triglycerides) and Lauric Acid. Lauric acid *is* a medium chain tryglyceride. According to the source I checked, coconut oil is approximately 50% lauric acid. The MCT fatty acids are: caprylic acid (C8), capric acid (C10), lauric acid (C12) and myristic acid (C14). There might be others, but those are the ones that I was able to find listed. For an analysis of percentages of fatty acids in coconut oil you can refer here: http://www.coconutoil-online.com/Fatty%20Acid%20Composition.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2002 Report Share Posted May 20, 2002 At 07:21 PM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Lauric acid *is* a medium chain tryglyceride. According to the >source I checked, coconut oil is approximately 50% lauric acid. The >MCT fatty acids are: caprylic acid (C8), capric acid >(C10), lauric acid (C12) and myristic acid (C14). There might be >others, but those are the ones that I was able to find listed. Interesting. Well, the MCT I buy doesn't say what the actual fatty acids are, they just mention " MCT and lauric acid " as being in coconut oil. Anyway, it's totally liquid, so maybe it's the capric and caprylic compnents (the really short ones). Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 > >Hi Everyone, > >Does anyone know if there are any health situations where a person > >must remain on a very low fat diet? I know of someone who had an > >inflamation of the pancreas and is now on a very low fat > >diet...forever. This seems insane to me. > >This sort of stuff drives me a little crazy. I know I would be very > >upset if I were denied what I consider the very best of foods for > >excellent health. > >Thanks in advance, > >Sheila > > My personal take is that a person with an inflammation of the pancreas > should try avoiding GRAINS -- a lot of people who react to wheat/gluten end > up with a gall bladder or pancreas problem, due to an autoimmune attack on > their own organs. When they give up fat they start eating more bread > products and make everything worse! A lot of people on the celiac list > found out they had a problem after their gall bladder or pancreas gave out. > > But if you do have a pancreas or gall bladder problem, the coconut oil is a > lot easier to digest. I used to have a lot of problems digesting fat, until > I gave up gluten-containing products, and now some time later I can eat all > the fat I want. But it takes awhile to heal. And some people never get > their bile salts back to normal. This doesn't matter much with VNCO -- it > doesn't need enzymes to break it down (they feed it to kids with Cystic > Fibrosis a lot, at least the MCT portion, because they don't digest fat well). > > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... So, Heidi, when you first started eating more fats but had trouble digesting them and gluten containing carbs you didn't go back to carbs for energy calories. Is that right? So did you feel weak or have less energy than with the previous carb diet (which included the gluten containing grains)? Since you didn't go back to carbs did you start eating the coconut oil soon and did it provide your energy calories so to speak? What was the time frame for this diet change? Thanks. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 > >Hi Everyone, > >Does anyone know if there are any health situations where a person > >must remain on a very low fat diet? I know of someone who had an > >inflamation of the pancreas and is now on a very low fat > >diet...forever. This seems insane to me. > >This sort of stuff drives me a little crazy. I know I would be very > >upset if I were denied what I consider the very best of foods for > >excellent health. > >Thanks in advance, > >Sheila > > My personal take is that a person with an inflammation of the pancreas > should try avoiding GRAINS -- a lot of people who react to wheat/gluten end > up with a gall bladder or pancreas problem, due to an autoimmune attack on > their own organs. When they give up fat they start eating more bread > products and make everything worse! A lot of people on the celiac list > found out they had a problem after their gall bladder or pancreas gave out. > > But if you do have a pancreas or gall bladder problem, the coconut oil is a > lot easier to digest. I used to have a lot of problems digesting fat, until > I gave up gluten-containing products, and now some time later I can eat all > the fat I want. But it takes awhile to heal. And some people never get > their bile salts back to normal. This doesn't matter much with VNCO -- it > doesn't need enzymes to break it down (they feed it to kids with Cystic > Fibrosis a lot, at least the MCT portion, because they don't digest fat well). > > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... So, Heidi, when you first started eating more fats but had trouble digesting them and gluten containing carbs you didn't go back to carbs for energy calories. Is that right? So did you feel weak or have less energy than with the previous carb diet (which included the gluten containing grains)? Since you didn't go back to carbs did you start eating the coconut oil soon and did it provide your energy calories so to speak? What was the time frame for this diet change? Thanks. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 > > > > > I have dropped gluten containing grains from my diet too. My weight > >has dropped a little and my digestion has improved. These changes > >plus the addition of more raw fats is clearing up some long standing > >digestive problems which had lead to mild arthritis, roseacea, IBS, > >indigestion and dry skin. Isn't it amazing how a whole foods diet, > >including raw fats and organic fruits and vegetables and grass fed > >beef, has the power to bring back health? I don't care if it takes a > >while to return, I am just thrilled it is possible at all! I am still > >taking HCL and digestive enzymes, but with the addition of more > >fermented foods,(NT recipes)maybe someday I will not need these > >anymore. > > Sheila: > > I'm REALLY INTO Kimchi, esp. now that mine tastes so good (sprain wrist > patting self on back). Most meals digest fine with some kimchi. I still > find that if I don't eat it with a meal, my stomach feels really " heavy " . Hi Heidi, I love kin chee too. I wrote to Dr Marasco at the WAP Nutrition web site, about eating saurekraut and other cabbage family fermented foods. He highly recommended eating them sparingly because of the effect they have on thyroid function (suppression). He suggested eating other fermented foods more often, such a pickles and fermented daikon radish and carrots. He was very convinced that this was a good idea. I don't want to throw cold water on your love of kim chee,(like that would be possible!) but I thought this might be important information to look into further. > > I've also found that if I eat finely ground grain (even not > gluten-containing) I often get indigestion, although not the rosacea/itchy > skin/migraine/foggy brain kind of problem. Yesterday I made muffins for > everyone (Rice flour) and they turned out SOOO GOOD I just had to eat one > and I've felt " full " all day today. So I'm not sure if everything is > " normal " yet or not, I'm sure when I was young I could eat muffins just > fine, but maybe I just never felt good and didn't know the difference. > > > >How do you tell if your bile salts are back to normal? > > I can't tell. But I can eat a nice greasy steak and feel fine, and before I > could not. Also, my bowel movements had not been " normal " for 20 years (6 > or more a day, foul smelling, greasy -- you don't want the details!) and > now they are (except when I eat a muffin. What can I say? Finely ground > grains are CURSED! :-) I used to feel fairly quesy all the time -- I would > joke that the morning sickness never really went away. That's gone too. I > used to be VERY hypoglycemic, and that hasn't been much of a problem > either, so I'm guessing my blood sugar is more even. I think I was hypoglycemic too. I know all about those icky bowel movements and the nausea in the morning and through out the day. I have improved in those departments, since I stopped eating grains. I even feel my IBS is diminishing. I have had these problems for about 30 years. They have only gotten worse until recently. God bless W.A. Price and his wife, also Sally, and all you wonderful, brave seekers of optimal health on Native-Nutrition. > > >What is the MCT portion you mention below? > > Coconut oil, in my understanding, is made mostly of two different oils: MCT > (Medium Chain Triglycerides) and Lauric Acid. MCT is sold at GNC for body > builders and athletes -- mainly because it gives a lot of energy without > being stored as fat. Seriously -- you take it and you feel HOT and ready to > run around the block. And it stores energy in the cells of your body and > you can work out longer. Anyway, I was using it instead of butter for a > long time, then found out about Coconut oil, which is actually cheaper (and > better for cooking). > > MCT is use a lot for kids that can't digest fats. Lauric acid is used for > kids that have fungi/bacterial problems. As near as I can tell, coconut oil > is about as easy to digest as MCT. My boy used to get specially broken down > fats (microlipids) because they figured he had digestive issues, but I'm > feeding him coconut oil now and it seems to be working just fine. Wonderful news about your boy managing to eat MCT. I do hope it helps him a lot. It has cleared off my candidas like a charm. All my best, Sheila > > > > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 At 11:06 PM 5/20/2002 +0000, you wrote: >So, Heidi, when you first started eating more fats but had trouble >digesting them and gluten containing carbs you didn't go back to carbs >for energy calories. Is that right? So did you feel weak or have less >energy than with the previous carb diet (which included the gluten >containing grains)? Since you didn't go back to carbs did you start >eating the coconut oil soon and did it provide your energy calories so >to speak? What was the time frame for this diet change? Thanks. >Dennis Dennis: Well, when I was first testing the concept I tried to keep my carbs stable. Which wasn't very hard, because I have very strong food aversions and I really don't like most bread, pasta, or flour tortillas. And it was getting worse and worse to the point where those things would make me gag to look at them. Plus I was nauseated a lot anyway, and more or less following Cliff Sheats (who is against most bread, but you must have a carb at every meal). Most of our carbs were rice or potatoes (and still are), and pasta now and then. I didn't use coconut oil, but had MCT with most meals instead of butter/margerine. Cliff Sheats is a very low fat diet, which is how we got into Longhorn steaks: low fat worked fine because most fats didn't seem to digest well anyway. So what I DID give up was beer at night (I switched to wine to make it even) and Rye Crisp (I switched to rice crackers). For the first week I felt like I was in opium withdrawal and could barely move, and THAT is what convinced me " something " was going on. I still had lots of potatoes and rice with meals, and corn tortillas or protein drinks for breakfast. The withdrawal symptoms got better, and I started feeling better, and my hands stopped hurting (I felt like I was getting Carpal Tunnel earlier) and my knees stopped hurting. I did that for a month or two, then decided I was probably imagining things and had a slice of pizza. BIG mistake! I went into a major anxiety attack, depression (I was crying for most of the evening, yelling at my dear hubby, you name it). So I never did eat that much again, it was too scary. Next day I got a migraine, and another migraine the day after that, and my hands ached. Since then I've had *traces* of gluten in some food, and it usually gives me DH (Dermatitis Herpetiformis, I thought it was flea bites, I got them every night when I drank the beer but figured it was the cat!). Also the chills. And I usually get a migraine and diarrhea, sometimes bloody, the next day, and a kind of " brain fog " . Eating too many rice-flour muffins, on the other hand, makes my gut a bit gassy and stools loose, but no brain fog and no nausea. Whole rice and potatoes don't seem to have much effect one way or the other, neither does rice pasta. Popcorn makes me really hungry 2 hours later, but otherwise is ok if it's popped in VNCO. So I'm not sure what the problem is with flours. Interestingly my food aversions to " mushy " foods have gotten better and now I like pasta sometimes. I tried getting the IgA antigliadin test, but it's not valid if you've been GF over a month. I got the gene test though, and I DO have the gene, and from what I read, if you have the gene you have a good chance of reacting to gluten, whether or not you react strongly enough to be " celiac " you are probably upping your rate of cancer if you eat gluten (it tends to knock out your T cells for awhile). But for me it's a moot point, nausea is an effective teacher. Lately I've been trying to cut down on carbs in general, partly because since I seem to be absorbing food better (If you have diarrhea all the time you probably are not absorbing things well!), I also seem to be gaining weight, and rice especially is pretty empty calories, plus I usually am not in the mood for it. Beans and potatoes seem to set well though, and they are filling, so I just eat less of them. I cook a lot of carbs for the rest of the family though. My husband has lost 20 lbs since he changed HIS diet (to no wheat, but he gets ice cream and cookies etc.) and he needs calories. I'm trying to make more of the carbs more healthy ones though, within what they will eat! Timeframe: it's still going on. I just discovered NT a few months ago. But I went GF last September, and have mainly been getting better since. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 > >So, Heidi, when you first started eating more fats but had trouble > >digesting them and gluten containing carbs you didn't go back to carbs > >for energy calories. Is that right? So did you feel weak or have less > >energy than with the previous carb diet (which included the gluten > >containing grains)? Since you didn't go back to carbs did you start > >eating the coconut oil soon and did it provide your energy calories so > >to speak? What was the time frame for this diet change? Thanks. > >Dennis > > Dennis: > > Well, when I was first testing the concept I tried to keep my carbs stable. > Which wasn't very hard, because I have very strong food aversions and I > really don't like most bread, pasta, or flour tortillas. And it was getting > worse and worse to the point where those things would make me gag to look > at them. Plus I was nauseated a lot anyway, and more or less following > Cliff Sheats (who is against most bread, but you must have a carb at every > meal). Most of our carbs were rice or potatoes (and still are), and pasta > now and then. > > >>>>>>>>>>clipped>>>>>>> > Heidi Schuppenhauer > Trillium Custom Software Inc. > heidis@t... Thanks Heidi. You are facing plenty of challenges to change your diet. I've indicated in past postings some of my difficulties and concerns with the NT diet. I'm going to continue easing into the change (to NT). I don't like the flu like sickness which apparently is due to my eating habits. I did revert back to old foods last weekend and felt better but I still think NT should be healthier in general than SAD in general. I also started drinking more raw whole milk last weekend cause I'd reduced its consumption the previous couple weeks. I'm going to get some coconut oil soon. Thanks again. Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 ----- Original Message ----- From: " skroyer " <scott@...> < > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 12:21 PM Subject: Re: low fat necessary? > > Coconut oil, in my understanding, is made mostly of two different > > oils: MCT (Medium Chain Triglycerides) and Lauric Acid. > > Lauric acid *is* a medium chain tryglyceride. That's not quite true--lauric acid is a medium-chain fatty acid, and any triglyceride which contains three molecules of lauric acid and/or other medium-chain fatty acids is a medium-chain triglyceride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 I tried getting the IgA antigliadin test, but it's not valid if you've been GF over a month. I got the gene test though, and I DO have the gene, and from what I read, if you have the gene you have a good chance of reacting to gluten, whether or not you react strongly enough to be " celiac " you are probably upping your rate of cancer if you eat gluten (it tends to knock out your T cells for awhile). But for me it's a moot point, nausea is an effective teacher. ************ Heidi, What is the gene test and where do you get it (is there a particular lab or can any ole lab do it)? Is is something most docs would know about or is it obscure? Is it a standard type of test that is covered by insurance? Thanks, Barb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2002 Report Share Posted May 21, 2002 At 11:20 AM 5/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >I tried getting the IgA antigliadin test, but it's not valid if you've been >GF over a month. I got the gene test though, and I DO have the gene, and >from what I read, if you have the gene you have a good chance of reacting >to gluten, whether or not you react strongly enough to be " celiac " you are >probably upping your rate of cancer if you eat gluten (it tends to knock >out your T cells for awhile). But for me it's a moot point, nausea is an >effective teacher. > >************ >Heidi, >What is the gene test and where do you get it (is there a particular lab >or can any ole lab do it)? Is is something most docs would know about or >is it obscure? Is it a standard type of test that is covered by insurance? >Thanks, >Barb I got the gene test through Dr. Fine (www.finerhealth.com). He's a kind of extreme writer, perhaps, but he's written a lot of published papers on celiac and is very concerned about it. He's developed his own set of tests (patented) for celiac which seem to be more sensitive than the blood test (but still not valid if you don't eat gluten for a month). But the gene test is a simple swab test: the details are on his web site or the Enterolab website (the link is on finerhealth.com). Most docs don't believe in celiac: the schools here teach it is rare, only one in 2000 people have it, and you don't have it unless you have bloody diarrhea and have lost huge amounts of weight. But when they test blood at the blood bank, the numbers of TESTABLE people are more like 1 in 250, and most people have no symptoms, and about 1/3 are overweight. So the docs don't know about the gene test either. But most labs can do it. It would be covered by insurance if your doctor orders it. The gene seems to be mostly in Northern Europeans, and American blacks (because most blacks have SOME European blood courtesy of some slaveowners). About 1/3 of NE's have it. It's rare in Middle Easterners. I don't know about Asians and Africans, if it's rare or if they just haven't been tested for it. Interestingly, Napolean's doctor felt that the " sudden increase " in cancer in his day was due to the fact that Europeans started eating more grain around that time. The interaction of this HLA gene and wheat is such that it does bad things to the immune system. I'd guess the gene was a lot more prevalent in Napolean's time and it's been dying out ever since. Heidi Schuppenhauer Trillium Custom Software Inc. heidis@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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